10-03-2020, 07:55 AM | #26 |
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Natures existed back when the old PokeSpa was around, as I remember you couldn't feed certain Pokemon certain Pokeblocks. I'm guessing they faded out of relevance though.
Here's the article I was going off for Berry rarity (if you scroll a bit down).
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10-03-2020, 08:54 AM | #27 |
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I hadn't realized there were people who didn't declare Natures at all, but I suppose it makes sense if they're not really relevant anymore. I mostly suggested that angle first so as not to have to deal with altering percentages. OTL
Looking at the list, maybe we could so something like a tier-system similar to the original proposal, where adding up the rarity points of similarly flavored Berries yields better results (again assuming max of five total can be mixed at a time): 1-4 = +1 Bond 5-9 = +2 Bond 10-14 = +3 Bond 15-19 = +4 Bond >20 = +5 Bond Then for Level gains, maybe it's just dependent on the number of same-Type Berries added? Idk, my maths is not good so again if anyone has a better idea for fair distribution please let me know. ^^;
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01-13-2021, 02:07 AM | #28 |
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In order to help move this discussion along, I put some thought into how I think the curry system could be developed. Let me know what you all think.
Getting Started: A person must participate with at least 1 Berry to offer as an ingredient as well as bring 1 Pokemon to assist with the cooking. You may contribute more than 1 Berry to the pot, but once the pot reaches 10 Berries (or some kind of time limit has passed) the cooking will begin. This means a maximum of 10 people may participate in a single cooking at a time. I think as a level of organization and balance, only 1 curry cooking may go on at a single time, and you may only participate in 1 curry cooking per month. Based on the quality of the cooking, everyone who participates will be rewarded with a corresponding result. I think the best way to score the curry is to break it down into 4 components: 1. Flavor ● Determined by the quality of berries used as ingredients, a cumulative value for each flavor type using the Gen. 4-8 flavor values.2. Temperature ● Determined by the quality of temperature in which the curry is cooked, a curry that is too hot will burn while one that is too cold won’t be cooked.3. Texture ● Determined by the quality of texture in which the curry is mixed, a curry that is too slowly will burn while one that is mixed too quickly will spill.4. Passion ● Determined by the amount of love that went into cooking the curry.Rating the Curry & tiers of rewards: Based on the cumulative ratings of Flavor, Temperature, Texture, and Passion, the curry will be graded. I haven’t put too much thought in the overall numbers behind the ratings, but I think it would be best if each individual component was scored out of 25 points, coming to a maximum of 100 points total. Based off of that score, the curry could then be graded into the individual classes (Koffing, Wobbuffet, Milcery, Copperajah, and Charizard Classes)Potential Concerns/Things that Might Need to be Discussed: ● Berry exploitation: I think we might need to raise the price of berries in the department store, specifically the Stat-Altering Berries (currently priced $50). These berries can yield the greatest value of flavor increments, and I think it would probably be fairest if they were raised to like $250 or else there could be a potential loophole for exploitation.Some Examples of Pokemon Actions: ● Temperature: Low BP attacks like Gust or Ember might be good if used in conjunction with other trainers. Maybe using something like Hurricane or Fire Blast would be a terrible idea lol. If you think there might be too much heat, maybe you could lower the temperature with an Icy Wind or something.I think that’s all I got for now, let me know what you all think. There would still have to be a lot more input, especially with specific scoring values. While I still have concerns about this turning into yet another shop to mark off the checklist in order to maximize your gains in FB, I think setting restrictions on the amount of berries being used and number of times you can attempt it per year, I think it can serve as a fun distraction that requires a lot of coordination and teamwork in order to succeed. |
01-13-2021, 09:58 AM | #29 | ||||||
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I like the sound of the rewards too, given the highest tier will require a team of people to co-ordinate well to achieve such a result I think they seem balanced. Quote:
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Don't really feel like I have much more to add to this outside of support for the idea ^^
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01-13-2021, 11:52 AM | #30 |
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Just giving my quick thoughts here but I am in agreement with PP here. The system looks fun and interesting, and I'm all for people having another avenue for roleplay with their Pokemon.
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01-13-2021, 02:15 PM | #31 |
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I still feel like we might be making things a bit more complicated than they need to be by turning the system into essentially another "Raid" mechanic
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01-13-2021, 02:30 PM | #32 |
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I'm going to be blunt. If this is just going to turn into a "How can we make Contests a thing again?" mechanic, I'm going to pull the plug in this development. The initial cause for implementation was addressing a surplus of berries and using current generational mechanics to alleviate that issue as well as provide additional RPing/training opportunities for trainers. If I ever see that development for anything in FB is driven by personal goals or interests rather than benefiting the game as a whole, it probably shouldn't be implemented.
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01-13-2021, 03:54 PM | #33 |
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Adding in contest typing to moves in this is making it too complicated just from a design standpoint. Mostly because whoever's updating would then have to check an additional reference.
If a move would effect the flavor of the curry... I'd say leave it up to updater discretion. Though applying a bit logic/common sense comes to the conclusion of: don't do things that will ruin the dish or the activity in most situations such as throwing a Toxic in there or using Explosion.
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01-13-2021, 04:23 PM | #34 | ||
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My first concern right now is that we're moving further and further away from the original concept of a simple "berry dump" into something more needlessly complex and increasingly dependent on subjective factors. So, in keeping with that complexity whilst also trying to simplify things from a mathematical perspective, utilizing Contest categories as a starting base guideline seems like a fair compromise. My main gripe with Raids right now is feeling "pigeonholed" into using the same Attack over and over just because it's the most effective damage-wise, so if we're going to turn this into something similar I'd like it to be more in line with Contests where variety and creativity are rewarded. I don't want people to feel like they're limited to just using a particular range of Attacks/Types and if their 'mon doesn't know certain good Moves then they can't contribute as much. I understand the examples given were already meant to be as inclusive as possible, but would prefer to see it opened up further so that any kind of action can have a significant effect on the outcome, but people will also have to keep in mind balancing different flavors and ensure their orders work well together, whether on a group or individual basis. Quote:
Edit- At any rate, what was meant to just be a throwaway joke aside, to summarize my stance on the matter: If we're going to expand Curry Cooking to such an extent, I'd like to see the structure lean more towards Contests than Raids in the sense of allowing more freedom of Move selection, but also bearing in mind the "burden" on the Updator to keep track of it all. The rapid-fire structure of Raid battles benefits from generally adhering to the games' formulas, so if an established system exists within the games that can be adapted and also applied to Curry then may as well make use of it to streamline the process. (Frankly if I had wanted to turn Curry Cooking into FB Contests completely then I would've advocated for a more freeform approach where the host is indeed the sole judge of "quality", but I want to keep things impartial and the logic behind the results straightforward/upfront.)
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01-14-2021, 05:41 PM | #35 |
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So, moving on since maybe I'm the only one being paranoid and overthinking things when folks are fine with the Updator calling all the shots through guesstimation like with Zone Adventures, I did have another thought regarding the "putting one's heart into it" portion: Since "heart" is kind of a vague concept, perhaps this could be dependent on RP effort? I didn't bring it up initially since I myself am not a big fan of the idea of making RP seem like a "requirement" to do well (and Emp's recent post in the Misc. Ideas thread only reaffirms that sentiment), but I know it's been suggested here before that rewards should indeed be earned through RP so figured I'd throw it out there to see how others feel about the proposal. If an RP factor is implemented I'd obviously like it to be a low threshold so people don't feel pressured to meet it, acting more as an extra bonus that can easily be made up by succeeding at the other cooking sections.
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01-19-2021, 05:37 PM | #36 | |
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Get the naan breads on
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--- Bit of an aside to things and may not ultimately be of any use but I made a few notes after finding myself reading over things again and trying to think up a simple system for executing something like this - Example scoring system (10 participants) This is just a bit of an example and nothing serious so these numbers are all very rough and would require ten participants to take part the whole time - I just thought it might inspire some more discussion on things, particularly given the subjective nature of certain rounds ^^
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01-19-2021, 06:34 PM | #37 |
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Sounds good but obviously it's gonna need to scale. 10 participants I feel is unrealistic, it's more likely to be around 4. We can nick the berry odds-and-sods and wrangle it to work.
A part of me wants to push for having poffin/pokeblock making as a purely aesthetic alternative to curry (same system, same rewards, just a different food made), but that may be a little much for what we have atm.
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01-19-2021, 07:01 PM | #38 | |||
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(Note: Given the subjective nature of certain rounds, judges probably shouldn't be allowed to participate, so we'd also need reserves/a rotating panel if someone wants to jump in themselves.) Quote:
I wouldn't mind this but I've already shot myself in the foot regarding Contest-related things so I'll just keep my mouth shut now. 8)
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01-19-2021, 07:36 PM | #39 | ||||
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05-25-2021, 07:04 PM | #40 |
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I don't really have much to add, but I wanted to bump this just because I've thought about curry cooking over the past few days. I really like the idea of it being another consistent way to interact and bond with your Pokémon and other players that is outside of raids and adventures.
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05-25-2021, 08:39 PM | #41 |
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Thanks for the bump. Curry hasn't exactly been a major concern on my mind with everything going on over the past month, but it's still something I'd like to see come to life.
I guess to start with, I want to revisit clarification of the basic format since it's what kinda killed discussion last time. 1) Should RP be required and/or affect the final score? 2) Would folks feel more comfortable with scoring being based on a strictly numbers-based system like Raids, or allow for subjective judging like in FFF or old-style Contests? My worry with the latter is that one person making judgment calls can lead to conflict when a participant feels their intent has been misinterpreted, as already seen again in FFF. I'm really curious to hear other people's thoughts on this matter, since I imagine it would likely influence how Contests would operate as well should they make a return.
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05-25-2021, 09:15 PM | #42 | |
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2) I agree that a subjective system could be problematic. I noticed during FFF that updaters sometimes interpreted the same move in the same situation differently; some would see it as advantageous while others would see it as something more neutral, for example. Personally, I think I would prefer a strictly numbers-based system.
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05-25-2021, 09:27 PM | #43 | |
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2) For full disclosure, there were some complaints brought up over Discord when a player's plan went awry during FFF, hence my further hesitation to implement that sort of subjective judging method here. This seems like it'd be an especially tricky issue when it comes to group efforts, as I don't want any one member to feel like they've accidentally sabotaged their team without meaning to.
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05-25-2021, 10:17 PM | #44 | |
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*Technically somebody else brought it up, but it was my order and I was involved with the ensuing discussion, so... On a more serious note, having this step be subjective doesn't seem like the greatest idea to me. The Fizzy Fright Fest marked the second time my idea of how a move worked didn't line up with the updator's idea (though it was admittedly the first time that the difference mattered), and since we now have some folks who are new to the franchise as a whole, similar scenarios are bound to crop up eventually. And while I doubt other people would react as poorly to letting their team down for something seemingly beyond their control as I did during the War of the Roses, they're still bound to be pretty unhappy about the situation. The question at that point comes down to how we classify moves in terms of being objective. What's the effective scaling for them, for example? I don't imagine it'd be a simple task to pull off, ya know? |
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05-26-2021, 12:31 AM | #45 | |
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05-27-2021, 11:04 AM | #46 |
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So my thoughts on the matter. (I didn't see this was bumped until today oof)
1) I do think that RP should be encouraged but not required. If it happens, it can provide a small boost to the overall score but shouldn't be required for a perfect score. 2) Yeah I feel FFF proved subjective judging shouldn't be a thing for something like this. There were arguments in mod chat about scores for people as well, which caused disagreements on things due to how the guidelines were interpreted. I do think a by the numbers points system would be fairer, and while using contest moves as a base could work we only have until Gen 6. (Even so BDSP might rectify it for most of the moves from 7 and 8, some new 7 moves aren't in 8 [Looking at you Spotlight]). I do feel that we should get this discussion wrapped up before August/September though. A proposal shouldn't be in limbo for a year, regardless of the outcome. We should probably look to outline an OP and a draft of the mechanics in the immediate future. WIll be sticking thread
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05-29-2021, 04:58 PM | #47 |
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throwing my two cents in, I'm in favor of a number system rather than based on the judge's perspective. RP can be thrown in and I feel a small boost is ok but RPing shouldn't make or break a score like previously stated.
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05-29-2021, 10:40 PM | #48 |
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All right, been thinking about this and going to try and come up with a rough outline of how this could work.
First, Curry will operate on a monthly basis. At the start of each month, members will have a week to post their Berry contributions, specifying whether they want to cook solo or participate in a group cookout. A group can have up to five people, with a max of five Berries in the pot no matter the number of participants. Borrowing from my original proposal, the flavor of the Curry will then depend on most predominant type of Berry added, or randomly selected out of types added if all different flavors. From here, there will be two phases, each lasting approximately 10 days (to give players time to RP if they so choose, with short stock or else likely limited detail Updates in between). Players can order one Attack per phase. Rather than restricting to just "Fanning the Flames" and "Stirring the Pot" though, I'd like to suggest we go with a more general "Preparation Stage" and "Cooking Stage" to allow for more imaginative options. Basically, the first phase will be prepping the ingredients, equipment, etc. Second will then consist of fanning, stirring, and any other suitable actions needed to make the meal. Now, talking mechanics/maths. I still say it's best to use this flavor chart on Bulbapedia since it includes every single Berry to date. We can divide the numbers by five for each individual Berry (so 1x Cheri Berry would be +2, and 5x Cheri Berries is +10 towards Spicy Flavor.) Once the overall flavor is established, Attacks will then affect the score based on corresponding Contest category. Compatible Moves will be awarded +1 extra point, and Incompatible Moves will be docked -1. Ex: Using a "Cool" Move with a base of four Appeal Points will add +5 to a Spicy dish, "Beautiful" or "Tough" Moves with the same base Appeal will add +4, and "Clever" or "Cute" Moves +3. RPing a post will also add +1 bonus point, for a maximum bonus of +10 (if a full squad of five) incorporating both rounds. The quality grades of the final Curry will then be counted as follows (subject to change): Koffing Class: 10-19 Wobbuffet Class: 20-29 Milcery Class: 30-39 Copperajah Class: 40-49 Charizard Class: 50+ We can tweak the totals/work out what each tier rewards in further discussions, but for now I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this sort of system. I tried to keep it as simple and open-ended as possible. 50 points is probably a pretty easy bar to clear if working together as a team, but I think it would simultaneously relax the RP "requirement" to do well + encourage folks to see this as more of a free RP opportunity to experiment and come up with creative methods of using Moves, rather than utilizing the most effective one on paper every time to maximize benefits. (*That said, I think we should ban the usage of Moves that cause the user to faint despite their typically high Appeal status, since that's not what this is about lol.)
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05-31-2021, 09:39 PM | #49 | |
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Also, I assigned Contest categories to all gen 7 and 8 moves, including the Z-moves, G/Dmax moves, and partner moves, for another project. I thought I'd drop them here in case you guys want to look them over and include them that way people have a wider variety of moves to use without having to use TMs, the move tutor, etc. Edit: They don't have appeal points assigned, but maybe we could base the amount of appeal points on base power thresholds. For non-damaging moves maybe we can just apply a blanket base appeal of 2 to all of them. That is, if you guys want to implement these moves. Gen 7 Spoiler: show Gen 8 Spoiler: show
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06-01-2021, 08:23 AM | #50 |
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I'd be hesitant about assigning contest stats to new moves for now, since the Gen IV remakes are coming out later just this year, and it's possible we will have contest stats for them at that point. Like ORAS did with Megas, it's even possible that Dynamax will be included in Super Contests this time
The proposal in general seems fine, lilboo. Although I would like to add, honestly mostly for flavour, the option for main ingredients, like Fancy Apples, Pre-cooked Burgers, etc. This could literally just be randomly posting one, or a small list of ones, in the month's opening so that people can choose from them. Or even just letting each group choose from any of them each month. It's not something that would do much, but it would add some fun, and I would not be surprised if there's some folks who want to do a CurryDex. Just my initial thoughts here |
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