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Old 08-09-2018, 02:01 PM   #4751
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I battled a mod a few days ago. I've fallen tremendously from my high rating of 1350+ for some reason, most likely my experimentation with my 6th slot.

Quagsire is pretty decent but I ran into trouble against non-hyper offensive teams, because Toxic spam is so prevalent in Ubers. I've been trying to find another powerful Pokemon to fit that niche and nothing really works, so I settled on Toxapex who can absorb T-Spikes and is immune to poison. She has annoying weakness so I've been trying to figure out a decent item.

Leftovers is consistent, but the health gain doesn't really make a difference. Rocky Helmet is good but not all opponents make contact, and Baneful Bunker eats away potential for Rocky Helmet to provide value.

So, Zoom Lens? It gives Gunk Shot a 96% accuracy, and Toxic 100% accuracy. If Toxapex could learn Hydro Pump I'd totally go that route though, because of the rain's power in boosting the move.
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Old 08-10-2018, 02:41 PM   #4752
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Toxic never misses when used by a poison type. Zoom Lens ain't a good idea, try Black Sludge.
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Old 08-10-2018, 02:56 PM   #4753
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I went with Rocky Helmet, but someone called me out as unsportsmanlike because I have two Pokemon with the same item. Is that the prevailing attitude? It's not illegal.

Black Sludge doesn't offer any advantages over Leftovers from what I can see aside from maybe screwing over someone who uses Trick, but in that case I don't want the Choice Scarf or whatever useless item is handed to Toxapex.
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Old 08-10-2018, 03:15 PM   #4754
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Smogon would mock that person. Nintendo Cup, VGC, etc. would not. Item Clause is a thing in most Nintendo-sanctioned tournaments whereas it's not a thing at all in Smogon's OU and similar tiers.
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Old 08-10-2018, 03:25 PM   #4755
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I want to say that Smogon is weird for being out of step, but aren't they the trend setters? So what's the justification for/against single item usage?

Regardless, I feel like in Ubers just because of the physical slant, items like Rocky Helmet are going to benefit way more than Leftovers would for any Pokemon expected to take a beating. With Life Orb, negs from moves like Close Combat and Dragon Ascent, and a prevalence of physical attackers, 1/8 HP can bring an opponent within range of priority. I think the only reason I don't see it a lot is the overwhelming number of hyper offense or hyper offense + Lugia.
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Old 08-10-2018, 03:56 PM   #4756
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Lefties is an important enough niche that Blissey is considered better than Chansey in Ubers compared to where Blissey isn't even considered in OU compared to Chansey. Granted, those are both special walls, but I think the point is something worth considering.
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Old 08-10-2018, 05:34 PM   #4757
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Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
I went with Rocky Helmet, but someone called me out as unsportsmanlike because I have two Pokemon with the same item. Is that the prevailing attitude? It's not illegal.

Black Sludge doesn't offer any advantages over Leftovers from what I can see aside from maybe screwing over someone who uses Trick, but in that case I don't want the Choice Scarf or whatever useless item is handed to Toxapex.
The general rule is that if you put Leftovers on something that's Poison type you should just switch it for Black Sludge because of the Trick reason.

That said from what I understand Rocky Helmet seems like it'd be a pretty neat item for Toxapex as well (says the guy with pretty much no gen 7 battling experience, but still)
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Old 08-11-2018, 03:50 AM   #4758
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With this win, I've moved into the 1400+ tier for the first time and my GXE is around 60%.

I don't think this reflects skill so much as my team coming across as anti-meta, with my opponents not knowing all the sets I'm running.

Water is resisted only by Water, Grass and Dragon - the only Water type I usually have to worry about is Primal Kyogre, Grass-types are rare, and Ice coverage usually takes care of the Dragons. For everything else, there's Ground.

Similarly, my team doesn't have a lot of weaknesses, either, due to the rarity of Grass-type attacking moves. Kyogre and Arceus effectively only fear Thunder, while Swampert/Seismitoad/Rotom don't have a weakness at all.

Greninja has the most weaknesses and, fundamentally, is the most important Pokemon on my team, because he's the only prominent Special Attacker. Kyogre's primary purpose is to provide rain so I don't usually let it fight until mid match.

Swampert and Greninja are in a strange tier of power where their moves are just short of netting essential KO's on Pokemon like Marshadow, but without full speed investment they don't catch Marshadow anyway.
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Old 08-13-2018, 05:12 AM   #4759
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I discovered Qwilfish when going through Showdown's database, then looking at its profile on Smogon, I see it was used on Ubers teams before the advent of ORAS. That's really interesting to me.

Qwilfish fits a niche, the #6 slot on my team, that I've been dying for. It's not perfect, but the suspects I've run in there in the past have never been wholly sufficient:

Manaphy
Palkia
Quagsire
Seismitoad
Toxapex
Azumarill

What I need from the #6 Pokemon:

-some access to stall shutdown (Knock Off, Taunt)
-resistance to poison (Steel, Poison typing)
-ability to deal with setups
-dodge Xerneas, Primal Kyogre Thunder
-hit hard to provide offensive pressure
-high physical resistance

Most of the Pokemon I listed, for one reason or another, have critical flaws in this regard:

-Manaphy is an underwhelming physical attacker and isn't fast
-Palkia has a limited movepool and is best a special attacker
-Quagsire is too passive, can't shut down stall or deal with status
-Toxapex can't deal with setups
-Azumarill is too slow and is easily destroyed or setup on

I need Knock Off or Taunt, as otherwise I have little way of beating stall or Ferrothorn. Ash-Greninja, Arceus-Water and Rotom-Wash don't have enough slots to run all the necessary coverage moves to deal with stall. At the same time, there isn't enough physical resistance on this team.

So far, I've been using physical Seismitoad the most, with Knock Off, Drain Punch, Ice Punch and Earthquake. He is OK in this role, but he doesn't hit hard enough and is easily KO'd. The main problem is Seismitoad HAS NO PHYSICAL WATER MOVES!

That's basically where Qwilfish is superior: the movepool. Explosion, Liquidation, and Taunt are all better on Seismitoad, but the toad doesn't have such moves. Meanwhile, the puffer outspeeds even +2 Xerneas, bar the max speed variants, so physical stab water or poison wrecks it pretty badly.
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Old 08-14-2018, 12:19 AM   #4760
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Why can Lugia use Psycho Boost on Showdown? This was the biggest WTF moment I've seen on there.

According to Smogon, Psycho Boost is legal on Lugia since RSE, yet Bulbapedia says it was only ever taught to Lugia in Pokemon XD Gale of Darkness...a non-canon game.
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Old 08-14-2018, 03:44 AM   #4761
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This guy had no idea how to deal with Rotom-Wash, but it helps to illustrate why it's a key member of my team.

Rain teams in ancient gens were like:

Kyogre
Arceus
Qwilfish
Kabutops
Palkia
Manaphy

Kyogre and Arceus aside, none of the rest can really handle Primal Groudon well. And even if they get past him, the new Ubers will generally eat them up. In Gen V, the new ubers were the underwhelming tao dragons. The aura legends, primals, and megas rendered that old lineup obsolete.

But Rotom is a surprisingly good matchup for them + the offensive psychics like Mewtwo Y, Ultra Necrozma, Lunala and Deoxys.

Rotom can't be paralyzed and surprisingly doesn't mind being badly poisoned, because Pain Split works like a pseudo-trap in that whoever is poisoned generally doesn't want to switch out. If they do, Rotom drops a Pain Split on a Pokemon with near full health and then switches out at or near full health to reset the counter. Doing so breaks Multiscale and even Ghosts aren't immune (notable Giratina).

As demonstrated in the video, Salamence and Rayquaza can also kill themselves trying to stop Rotom. Hidden Power Ice sucks, but it still does 50% to Zygarde 50% even uninvested in SpA. Most of the threats except Marshadow are accounted for.

...

Oh, also, I noticed Daisy's post from earlier this year about wanting a physical electric attack close to Thunderbolt in power. Hey, who gets the shiny new toy?

Quote:
Plasma Fists
Electric
Physical
100 BP
100% Accuracy
15 PP
Normal-type moves become Electric-type moves instead this turn. Gigavolt Havoc Base Power: 180
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Old 08-14-2018, 06:42 AM   #4762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Why can Lugia use Psycho Boost on Showdown? This was the biggest WTF moment I've seen on there.

According to Smogon, Psycho Boost is legal on Lugia since RSE, yet Bulbapedia says it was only ever taught to Lugia in Pokemon XD Gale of Darkness...a non-canon game.
Going back to Smogon's roots as a project that aims to create a meta for cartridge use, their philosophy is that anything is allowed on Showdown that would be possible to have in the current games; and vice-versa that, certain formats excepted, anything not achievable in the current games is not allowed.

XD Lugia can be owned in SMUSUM as follows:
  1. Obtain in XD Gale of Darkness.
  2. Export to RSE via the GameCube's Game Boy adapter.
  3. Export to DPPt via the DS or DS Lite's GBA port and the Gen 4 games' Pal Park.
  4. Export to BW+BW2 via two DSes or one DS and one 3DS using the Gen 5 games' Poké Transfer Lab.
  5. Export to Pokémon Bank via the 3DS and its Pokémon Transporter app.
  6. Export to SMUSUM.
It's quite the daisy chain -- but you can do it. 3 side to 3 main, 3 main to 4, 4 to 5, 5 to 3DS app, and 3DS app to 7.

Furthermore, because it is technically possible to obtain an IV-perfect XD Lugia (I presume), Showdown will allow your Psycho Boost Lugia to be IV-perfect -- even if that's statistically unlikely and highly impractical in Gen 3.

Furthermore, because XD Lugia predates the advent of Hidden Abilities, Showdown disallows it to have any ability other than Pressure.

This is how Smogon (and Showdown, by extension) operates. Going back to its origins as an alternative meta for cartridge-based play, many of their modern rules are grounded in cartridge-based possibility. This is why (or was originally why), for one example, Smogon is/was averse to the notorious so-called "complex bans": the idea was that if the bans got too complicated to explain to opponents on the playground and to enforce on cartridge that the project would fail in its mission. Easier to tell a kid on the playground "no Blaziken!" rather than telling him "no Speed Boost Blaziken, but either Speed Boost alone or Blaziken alone is okay". Easier to say "No Baton Pass allowed" rather than "Baton Pass is fine on up to three Pokémon, but any more than that is illegal." The Blaziken ban was controversial even in its day and today is a frequently-cited example of an old mentality that needs to go, now that Smogon has long since abandoned its roots and has fully embraced its place as a simulation meta. The Baton Pass example, which did not happen -- they in fact restricted the number of Baton Pass users you could have at a time -- is a good example of the new and rising-in-popularity mentality that Smogon's axe can and should only fall as narrowly as possible, to avoid as many collateral casualties as possible, and that no one need worry how complicated or numerous the bans become -- because nobody expects a human to memorize them or write them down and implement them for cartridge play anymore; everyone expects the rules to be applied to Showdown play and to be enforced by the Showdown computer code.
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:20 AM   #4763
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Yeah, XD/Collo purification moves account for a lot of oddball moves you might not have heard of a Pokémon getting before or since, like Tri-Attack on Togekiss from a Shadow Togepi from...one of those two games.
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Old 08-14-2018, 04:24 PM   #4764
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I had no idea you could transfer a Pokemon from RSE all the way to SM. Then again, that also reflects the time period where I dropped out of Pokemon (between Gen II and Gen III).

From a competitive standpoint, I think I'm gridlocked here in the 1350-1400 range until I get a proper sixth Pokemon. The level of play has been pretty good and consistent enough that I think I know how strong the team is, and it's not 1500+ material in Ubers without (probably) a Primal Palkia as the assist.
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Old 08-14-2018, 07:29 PM   #4765
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3 to 4 to 5 is immortal. The current gatekeeper is the 3DS software suite. If either of Poké Transporter (5->Bank) or Pokémon Bank (*->6,7) is removed from play without suitable replacement, it will create a rift in time between Gens 3-4-5 and Gens 6 onward. And given how Bank works -- it stores your data server side and requires an Internet connection to the server for access -- it seems probable that this rift will emerge once online support is cut for the 3DS family of systems. Even if they "transfer" Bank -- and all your banked 'mons -- over to the Nintendo Switch, unless the Switch comes with eventual hardware support for DS-era cartridges we're going to see the rift occur. The Daisy chaining has worked so far because the DS supported both GBA and DS cartridges, the 3DS both DS and 3DS cartridges. This allowed us to create a bridge between the hardware of the Game Boy Advance and the 3DS. But (afaik) the Switch only supports Switch cartridges. It has no 3DS or DS ports.
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Old Yesterday, 07:43 PM   #4766
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Silvally is usable in Ubers. It probably sucks in lower tiers, though.

Base 95 speed outruns the crowded base 90 tier of Ubers, so Normal Silvally can harass with Tri Attack, go boom with Explosion or pivot with Parting Shot. Sometimes you will also outspeed Yveltal and Xerneas, which immediately telegraphs what build the opponent is running. Pangoro isn't nearly as fast enough to do the same with Parting Shot.

Normal can run Choice Scarf, so it can outspeed other threats as well and if you have another Volt Switch/U-Turn user, you can continue to cycle through those two to put pressure on the opponent. I think

If only Silvally knew some entry hazards, it would be pretty good at hit and run tactics. If it learned a multi-attack move, rather than Multi Attack, it would be good as an anti-lead to something like Smeargle.

I'm running Silvally-Water for this very reason: I need a fast Water pivot, and while Manaphy is pretty good in that respect, Parting Shot does way more to preserve momentum than U-Turn does.

Silvally-Water's main problem is, by itself it can't really pressure the opponent. Silvally really needed more boosts in USUM when it was clear how bad it was in SM...
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