12-02-2011, 03:37 PM | #1 | |
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Oh look, even more bullshit brought to you by the legislative branch
http://www.npr.org/2011/12/01/143029...b-defense-bill
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-m...ameful-2011-12 Didn't know if this should go in debate or not, but I suppose it's a topic that could be discussed. From the second article: Quote:
Discuss, I guess. |
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12-02-2011, 03:42 PM | #2 | |
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On the other, bare fucking minimum extreme: every single co-signer of this NDAA should be barred from serving in a legislative capacity for life, period, Game Over.
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12-02-2011, 03:44 PM | #3 |
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Canada is starting to look really nice right about now.
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12-02-2011, 03:53 PM | #4 |
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This is getting out of hand, everything they're doing... when do we know is the time to actually go "That's it, I'm moving out, I want no part in any of this shit"? It shouldn't have to come to that!
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12-02-2011, 04:05 PM | #5 |
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When Obama stays president. That is when we get the fuck out.
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12-02-2011, 04:09 PM | #6 |
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12-02-2011, 04:32 PM | #8 |
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*points at self*
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12-02-2011, 05:32 PM | #9 |
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12-02-2011, 05:56 PM | #10 | ||
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God Save Us.
I wasn't expecting such a turn of events to occur so suddenly, but I've been suspecting something of the nature for quite some time now. I am now quite scared.. In the second article: Quote:
If this Bill Passes, I'm declaring war on all it's supporters and enforcers. They want a battlefield here? They can have it, and I will fight for my Homeland. Thankfully, I've only heard about it passing in the Senate, Conservatives hold the House of Representatives, and I doubt they'll let this monstrosity through. (If they do... We have reached the Apocalypse, and we're all doomed anyway.) Agree with you here. I'm confident he will not win though, and Conservatives will sweep the Senate, hopefully to entirely repeal some of this terrible legislation we've gotten, and may get later before the elections. Quote:
As for the alternative, are conservatives really that much worse then Obama? Are we really going to destroy the country, and everyone in it, if we get in power? Even the Most Obscure" Right Wing" among us? How are we not a good alternative? I'd vote for any one of them over Obama any day, and every day after that. I would just rather get the "Best" of them first, so our course off the cliff can be totally reversed, instead of simply slowed down. Unfortunately, you don't fit the qualifications in the Constitution, but even so, I'd vote for you over Obama. I'd hate to see the only option of freedom being rebellion and revolt, but if we're going to end up in a police state, under the guise that certain views are "terrorist sympathetic," and persons need to be held against Constitutional Rights, Rebellion (which will then be known as terrorism), will be the only option.. And it will be the Height of True Patriotism, a commitment to our country as founded, and not, as it is. So, Everyone who is old enough, Vote in 2012, and vote these naive, or (hopefully not) deliberately scheming career politicians out! |
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12-02-2011, 06:02 PM | #11 | |
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Code:
PRESIDENTIAL SUPPORTERS: 1/150,000,000
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12-02-2011, 06:39 PM | #12 |
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Being inadequate, and knowing you're inadequate, but striving to be the best you can, is the best attitude for someone in power to have (unfortunately it doesn't win elections..).
So, good thing of course. Where'd you come across that quote? |
12-02-2011, 06:53 PM | #13 | |||||
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Now I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but if I was, I'd almost have to question the timing of this bill with the desperation to shut down the occupy movement. I really want to say that's just crazy talk, and it's stupid to think such things, but with the state of fucked if I know going on lately in this country with the bajillion fucking things they're trying to do, I can't say that finding out such a motive like this would surprise me in the least. Quote:
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I'll finish with this, a quote from Lindsey Graham, who, yes, is a RINO (but definitely not a dem, but somewhere in between), in regards to the bill: Quote:
EDIT: Let me throw in here that Sen. Thomas Harken (IA), Rand Paul (KY), Thomas Coburn (OK), Jeff Merkley (OR), Ron Wyden (OR), Mike Lee (UT), and Bernard Sanders (VT) all deserve a round of fucking applause for being cool as fuck and not voting in favor of the bill in the first place. It depresses me to think they are the only ones though. Last edited by deoxys; 12-02-2011 at 07:03 PM. |
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12-02-2011, 08:24 PM | #14 | |||||
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As far as I'm aware, most democrat politicians have embraced the Occupiers, and refused to shut them down. So there must be some other reason why they'd want to stop them now. I don't disagree however that some people may want to shut them down because of their voicing opinion. Quote:
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I'm not opposed to the concept of the bill, giving greater ability to catch terrorists, but the wording is entirely off, and much to vague. Personally I also think we'd be fine without the bill entirely. The less Congress legislates, the better. So, stop calling them to session! Quote:
Congress is mostly to blame yes, but Obama is in the best position right now in the world to do something about it, and he's not. Quote:
US Citizens DO have rights, God-given, as well as Government granted, and these need to be respected, ALWAYS. However, any United States Citizen, who have been convicted of a Terrorist act against the US, or any act that is intentionally harmful to the US or it's citizens, after having been given all their legal rights, is by definition a Traitor and an enemy to their country, and should be treated as such. I couldn't care less how long you detain them or how terribly you interrogate them, as long as they have been provably convicted of their treachery or terrorist act beforehand. The only exception I can accept for a Citizen accused of Terrorism, is humane detainment until, and during, their rightfully "speedy" trial. Afterwards, let them go if innocent, or detain them indefinitely if guilty. It's that simple. |
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12-02-2011, 08:32 PM | #15 |
Gee, Brain...
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Okay, now I won't claim to be an expert on American politics, but what the fuck?
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12-02-2011, 08:33 PM | #16 |
Primordial Fishbeast
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12-02-2011, 08:43 PM | #17 | |
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You know what the saddest thing about this is? Most of America has no idea that a law that BLATANTLY violates their Constitutional right is being passed through Senate right this moment. Sickening.
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12-02-2011, 11:10 PM | #18 | |||||
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When a President does work with congressmen or senators, the best he can really do is to give them a phone call and say "Look, I really need you to vote for/against this, and if you do, I'll help you out with your campaign/I'll publicly promote your idea of a bill you want passed/I'll buy you a pony". That's about all. If you're curious to ever find out more about that process from staff points of view, as well as from the congressmen and senators, Frontline has had a few really good specials with interviews of those who've worked directly for and under the President and have seen first hand how hard it is. It's not simple at all, but I think I'm reaching the rambling limit and I've probably made my point. So, TL;DR - The President, as powerful as he is, is very limited on getting congress or senate to do something he disagrees with, especially if they're from the opposing party. Now again, keep in mind there are 242 Republicans in Congress right now, and 192 Democrats. That's a whopping 50 more, which is a huge margin, essentially ensuring the Republicans get whatever outcome they want. Quote:
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12-02-2011, 11:21 PM | #19 | |
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In Non-Amurikan' Layman's Terms, it's like this - Our version of Parliament is attempting to make it a law that our own military can come and detain/arrest any American they want IN THE COUNTRY for however long they want, without a court trial to find them guilty. Which, by the way, 'right to a fair trial' is an American right written in the Constitution, the backbone of our law making process. Now, this was argued as "This will help stop american terrorists here at home!", but even then, every single citizen is allowed the right to a fair trial. All of us, terrorist or not, no exceptions. The law is the law, and should be treated as such without any exceptions. If this new thing becomes a law, this shits all over that right and could possibly be considered illegal because of it. But even if it is, there is a chance nothing will be done about it. I hope that helps... if not, I'll try to make it simpler |
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12-03-2011, 04:13 AM | #20 |
Gee, Brain...
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Er, I think I understood, my reaction was just based on sheer surprise. I believe the UK Terrorism Act has similar provisions (inb4 Kush) but limited to 28 days detention...I believe it was 42 for a while but that lapsed, and Blair tried to get it up to 90 but there was massive resistance and it failed. Indefinite is...scary.
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12-03-2011, 04:56 AM | #21 | |
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12-03-2011, 07:39 AM | #22 |
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12-03-2011, 11:23 AM | #23 | ||||||
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Republicans won a sweeping majority in the House of Representatives just recently. This is the reason for the deadlock that's been occurring lately, and the reason for the now overwhelming difference in numbers, as you've reported. Each party controls a different house of congress however, each with different, and incompatible, ideologies. Being as the majority of America they represent voted for them, this is right and proper. Things will only get done, by the founder's design, when the country is unified in the outcome, and votes a particular "ideological majority" into the Congress, which in 2012, is likely to be conservative, Aka Republican. Quote:
Obama has also said, that the Occupiers were the Reason he ran for president. Of course, most of those who had embraced them, are seemingly now trying to distance themselves from it, which is quite curious. Now, I'm not doing to disagree and say that some TEA partiers have not joined with Occupy Wall Street, but overall, there are apparent differences between the two groups, some of which I'd think are insurmountable, though there may be some common ground to be found, but I'm still rather suspect of these people being a genuine grass roots movement. (some may be, others most likely not.) Quote:
Whatever he does, at least we can both agree that he hasn't done enough. Quote:
Spoiler: show The bipartisian approach can do nothing where there are deep ideological divides like there are between Liberals and Conservatives, any "compromise" is just one party caving to the other's demands (Usually Republicans caving to stalwart unmovable liberals, unfortunately). However, where there is a good idea that doesn't touch those ideological lines, both sides will naturally vote the same (Like the Plain Writing Act) "if X is for it, I'm against it," while good, seems really just to be an easy cop out from having to read the bills. Obama has shown through his own proposed bills, that his interests are not in America's interest, though, so being against anything he's for, will generally be the right path most of the time. Quote:
This is entirely by design of our Founding Fathers. When the Citizens are divided as we are, Congress can get nothing done. And since elections are staggered, it requires us Citizens to think long and hard on what direction we want the country to take. Once we have made a series of well thought out, unified decisions at the voting box, one view will overrule the other in the Congress (Party Majority Rule over both Houses for instance), and things will start getting done again. Spoiler: show Quote:
Last edited by unownmew; 12-03-2011 at 04:33 PM. |
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12-03-2011, 08:13 PM | #24 |
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Just have to weigh the pros and cons of staying in the states with legislation like this and the uncertain nature of changing countries. You might want to consider Australia!
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12-03-2011, 10:56 PM | #25 | |
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