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Old 04-23-2017, 02:47 PM   #1
Sneaze
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Jirachi Economy Revamp

So I know this was presented in the proposal, which is all fine and dandy, but honestly this is something so large it needs its own dedicated thread here.

The guidelines as put forward by the proposal are as such:

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One of the most debated topics since the UPN branch of Fizzy Bubbles became independent, we consider the Economy to be important to the health of Fizzy Bubbles. While we anticipate that there is still much debate, the following summarizes the Discord group’s consensus regarding the FB economy..

Rare Candies are being stripped of their value in terms of currency; however, they will still be used for trading as an item. As such, they will follow current restrictions as other items in terms of trading. They will also be serving their in-game purpose: leveling Pokemon. As such, the Pokemart will still offer a weekly candy to members.

With the removal of candies, we propose two currencies we’d like to have in place. Pokedollars are the main currency of FB, gained primarily through role playing; this is the currency of most shops, which has the ability to purchase common goods. Cash can be traded between members, and shouldn’t be abused in terms of transfers or trades between members. A to be determined cash value can be earned from every RP post that meets the requirements set. This does not mean posts under this limit won’t be updated; it means that players who put in more time and effort will be awarded accordingly. All members will start with $3000 when they join, akin to the standard starting amount of cash you start with in-game. Pokedollars are designed to be the common currency and will be the main currency in terms of obtaining and purchasing.

Coins will be the luxury currency. They are much harder to obtain, can’t be traded between members, and are used primarily in purchasing luxury goods. Coins can be obtained from sources outside of RP, such as Battles, Contests and Holidays, or as prizes and giveaways. Updaters can also give coins as part of the end-of-adventure reward, but coins themselves won’t be earned from RPing. There are talks of a Coin Zone, where members will earn coins instead of dollars, but ideally at a rate that doesn’t cause mass inflation. Coins will also be used in luxury item shops, as of yet to be determined. As of now, the Casino will most likely be scrapped while discussion is still being had on the Lucky Draw and CfP.

At this moment in time it has not been decided on if trainers will be allowed to exchange currency or not, and discussion is encouraged.


So to start things off I have a few points of thought that I'd ask everyone to put some brain power behind:

- Candy stockpiling; How do we further devalue the Candy without making it completely valueless
- Pokedollars vs Coins; Which shops should be running on which, and how expensive should base things be (no need to go super in detail on prices, just give rough outlines for ideas)
- Income rates; To what degree are we shelling out any and all of the above, this is probably the heaviest contributor to any stress on the economy down the line and as such is probably the biggest to touch on, so any and all ideas are welcome here

Beyond that, feel free to bring up additional points of discussion. The economy is a many headed beast and we'll have to deal with all of them before this can be properly slated.
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Old 04-23-2017, 03:42 PM   #2
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I'm not sure if much else needs to be done with Rare Candies beyond what's been done thus far. They've already lost their usability as currency everywhere but the Move Tutor, so my thinking is just cut off that one as well. And maybe make it so you can't trade in Rare Candies for coins anymore, for that matter- in fact, my idea is that only Pokédollars can be used to buy coins, Rare Candies can't be exchanged for any currency, and anything else that could be exchanged for coins now instead is just sellable for Pokédollars at the Pokémart.

That said, Rare Candies have always had value in the Cable Club. I really don't want to outright forbid the trading of Rare Candies, as people have been able to help out other people many times by trading Rare Candies. But at the same time, those with larger Rare Candy stashes would tend to have an upper hand when bidding on something that's up for trade... One idea of mine is to lower the maximum number of Rare Candies one is allowed to put into a single trade- it currently stands at a maximum cap of 5 Candies, and there was a time when it was at 4. Would lowering it to 4 or maybe even 3 help any? By no means should we remove any upper limit on how many Candies can be traded at once- that happened once before, and chaos ensued. The bidding wars were ridiculous. Anyway, this is just my opinion. I still want Rare Candies to have trade value of some sort, and I definitely still want them to be tradeable.


As far as Pokédollars vs. coins... I think your standard shops should utilize the Pokédollar, honestly- the Pokémart, obviously. The Move Tutor. Hell, maybe even the Daycare, you'd be allowed to pay Pokédollars for extra levels per week- an idea I'll get more into when we start talking Daycare. Secret Base stuff. That sort of thing. Coins, if they are to be a luxury currency, then IMO, there should be a special shop in which you use coins to buy things you cannot buy with Pokédollars. In other words, essentially kind of a Coins for Prizes kind of deal, but... with a more special selection, I guess I'm trying to say here. At one point, the idea of making Shiny Spray more accessible was voiced- if indeed we go ahead with this, that could be an example of a luxury item you could buy with coins. Devolution Spray. Maybe even Custom Move items, like the Cranberry Vodka that teaches Firestream. Maybe even high-quality Pokéblocks, Mysterious Gummis (still wanting to rename them Wonder Gummis, as their in-game counterparts are actually called in English, but again, that's more relevant to a different discussion), Luxury Balls (since they give Happiness Points), things like that.


Income rates. The rule has been 250 for each zone post that meets the minimum word requirement. I personally have never seen much fault with this, but I also do not claim to be any sort of financial expert. If the zones do become as active as we're hoping to get them, this might mean more members getting more money more quickly. As for coins, I'm not sure. All I know is that you should be able to buy coins with Pokédollars, but like in the games, it shouldn't be the most efficient way of stockpiling coins. This leaves the question of what one ought to be able to earn in the potential Coin Zone.

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Old 04-23-2017, 04:28 PM   #3
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Rare Candies
The Rare Candy would be completely demonetized with the new changes that have been proposed. As it stands, it's not too much of a difference as only the Move Tutor won't be payable any more with Rare Candies.
Not making Rare Candies exchangeable with Pokédollars sounds like a viable option but it basically means that they're not purchasable unlike other items. Factor in that despite them not being purchasable but are being given out periodically; and you have a special item that holds time-spent value, with long-term players holding more of that value.

In my opinion, Rare Candies will hold value to the community as long as we treat it like Pokédollars and Coins. That means that as long as we keep a bank record of it, and allow it to have a consistent method of being given away it'll always be valuable. I mean the way I imagine it is that if we allowed people to trade levels (which they get from Daycare) or moves (which they get from Move Tutor) with one another, they'd start using that as a token of value in trades (eg. I lower my Feraligatr's level by 5 to give to your Charizard in exchange for your Pikachu).
To really further devalue the Rare Candy we'd have to stop the give-away and make it a purchasable item like any other. The problem with that is what to do with the current candy records of those who've been keeping their Monday give-aways, as they'd have a huge and unfair advantage over the newer members.

I'm fine keeping the Rare Candies as we have them for now. I'm honestly not too fussed about Rare Candies holding their unofficial status of currency in trades. Restricting the amount to use in a trade is something we should keep though. Allow Pokédollars - which people have to work for - to be used infinitely might allow it to outshine rare candies.

Pokédollars vs Coins
I think Pokédollars should be spent on the most basic of shops that in some way relate to roleplaying in zones such as general store, daycare, move tutor, AC, breeding centre - as roleplaying will be the general way to obtain it. The coins I think should be used for luxury shops; shops that are not directly involved with zone adventuring or shops that could reasonable replace the attainment of high-end rewards one would get in zones; Boutique, Evolution Stones, Special Pokéballs, TMs, perhaps even the Egg House if some form of purchase will remain there. Bases I think would count as a luxury item for which improvements can be purchased for with coins. This is only a very vague idea - as long as there is some split between them that makes sense I'm fine with pretty much anything.
I'm in favour of keeping the $250 reward for zone replies and then working out costs in shops based on this number. There are players who already have a bank account with incomes that were based on this number. If we lowered the value of $250 too drastically we'd allow these people to have comparatively larger bank accounts than others.
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Old 04-23-2017, 04:59 PM   #4
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Well I might not be answering to everything, but I'll like to throw in my opinion as much as I could.


Candies: Fully agree that it should be get rid of a currency. Perhaps, like EAI suggested, they can be simple items that can be purchased? I'll give also as another solution that's more closer to the game: perhaps we should use candy as a reward or random item that can be found in zones. Also, perhaps we should get rid of the "free Monday candy" for an allowance of Pokédollars.


Pokedollars vs Coins: I completely agree that Pokédollars are for common stuff and services while Coins are for more exclusive, "rare", luxury stuff. Here's a more detailed rundown of what I think the stuff can be bought with which currency:

Pokédollars:
- All shop services, including Daycare, Adoption Center, Boutique, Beauty Salon, etc
- All basic Pokémart items (healing items, Pokéballs (except FB exclusives and Master Ball), escape rope, mail, some TMs, etc.
- Accessories (custom and contest official)
- Some held items (ex.: Incense, gems)
- Most base items and stuff
- Some evolution items (basic stones)
- Key Stones, Z-Rings, and some of the Mega Stones and Z-Crystals
- Any other trivial thing that isn't considered "luxury"

Coins:
- Rare, non-adopting Pokémon (ex.: Porygon)
- Rare TMs
- Most held items
- Rare base items
- Most evolution items
- FB exclusive Pokéballs (and perhaps Master Ball)
- Rare Mega Stones and Z-Crystals
- Other super-rare items, like devolution spray and shiny spray


As for where the Pokédollars and Coins can be used, I would like to simplify things and make all shops use Pokédollars, but restrict all coin-purchasable items in one, "Game Corner" shop so things are slightly better to keep track of in terms of currency used. However, a lot of the rare items would be more fitting to be sold in other shops (ex.: base items in base item shop, shiny spray in Boutique, TMs in Move Tutor/Training Center) so that way it's easier to keep track of the immediate use of those items... so I don't know anymore.
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Old 04-23-2017, 05:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneaze View Post
- Candy stockpiling; How do we further devalue the Candy without making it completely valueless
- Pokedollars vs Coins; Which shops should be running on which, and how expensive should base things be (no need to go super in detail on prices, just give rough outlines for ideas)
- Income rates; To what degree are we shelling out any and all of the above, this is probably the heaviest contributor to any stress on the economy down the line and as such is probably the biggest to touch on, so any and all ideas are welcome here
Candy Stockpiling: If we remove any and all official currency uses of Rare Candies (note: this does not mean trading), that's the first step. It's worth noting why Rare candies developed the value they did. First of all was shop value, was has been mostly scaled back and will soon be completely gone. Second is in leveling. Leveling is always going to hold intrinsic value, so Rare Candies will always have value in that regard. However, FB in the past had artificial incentive in the form of PC slots to level. In addition, because of the sheer ability to catch Pokemon, artificial leveling was almost required to have a party with decent levels.

So to me, the best ways to devalue the Rare Candy are to get rid of incentivizes to artificially leveling (i.e. get rid of PC slots), deincentivize overleveling in some way, or to stymie the flow of Pokemon so the pressureto level isn't as strong. Which are all good suggestions, but I'm not sure if they have any merit being discussed here. Pretty much none of them have much of anything to do with the economy itself.

Pokedollars vs Coins: Most of the basic shops are going to run on the Pokedollar. Stuff like the Pokemart, Adoption Center, Daycare, and Move tutor should all run on it. On prices, I think the easiest way to do it is to make the Daycare and Move Tutor equal in price to a certain amount of replies made a week. So let's say we want people making 3 replies a week. Given the current value of a reply is $250, we would simply make the prices of the Daycare and Move Tutor equal $750. This is only an example, but I think this is the most likely way this will work. If you want something extra, like goods from the Pokemart or a Pokemon from the AC, you're going to have to put effort into doing that. If you want to at least make sure you're Pokemon are leveling and gaining moves, you're going to have to RP for it. You don't RP, you'll run out of money and won't be able to use the shops. As long as Pokedollars are an RP only resource, we will be offering an incentive to RP; the shops are unusable if you do not RP.

On coins, there will probably be a Coins for Prizes-esque shop where you can buy things that you can't otherwise, such as potentially TMs, Mega Stones, Evolution Items, Custom Items, or Staff Shop items (note, as a disclaimer, I'm against buying staff shop items as much as possible. I feel like that we want as many ZUs as possible, and removing the current incentives we already have is bad item).

Income Rates: With Pokedollars, I think we want to consider cost being the backend and not income. I think changing the amount earned right now is a bad idea: our economy is already calibrated to that amounts. So we need to ask ourselves ideally what do we expect people to do in FB. I think in the manner of caution, everything should be set on the idea that each person is going to make one reply a week (its going to be pretty complicated to go any lower than that).

Coins are luxury goods, and in my mind, luxury goods should remain a luxury. Essentially, we want the income here to be slow. High-end rewards should take a good amount of time in order to obtain. Granted, we don't know how we are going to earn coins, but I think that considering its not a vital currency and that its main use is to make sure the pokedollar doesn't implode, we can afford to be stingier with it.

Unfortunately, because the Casino completely and utterly fucked any idea of a stable income, I think we 100% should have a mandatory coin wipe. Even if the Casino is _gone_, people who were around enough to simply get lucky will have a huge advantage and one that I honestly don't feel was earned. I also don't feel you should be allowed to spend beforehand...that's kind of the point.
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Old 04-23-2017, 05:59 PM   #6
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a few things on coins because that's all that really matters here; candies are dealt with once we remove their value from the MT, pokedollars we can adjust freely

- coins cannot be recieved in an RNG fashion. restricting desirable things that should be purchasable freely behind RNG is absurd
- as a result, consider coins as a reward for finishing an adventure (an event that should happen naturally in FB, but isn't as frequent as updates)
- the coins received from the old system mean nothing, and should probably just be wiped entirely. people are obviously gonna resist that though, so maybe just convert them

- there is no reason to have coins at such large numbers if we aren't gonna give them away in such large quantities. so maybe post-wipe coins we could use increments of just 1 or 10 (like, finishing an adventure gets you 5/50 coins, a mega stone costs 10/100 coins, a TM costs 1/10 coins, etc)

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Old 04-23-2017, 06:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneaze View Post
Rare Candies are being stripped of their value in terms of currency; however, they will still be used for trading as an item. As such, they will follow current restrictions as other items in terms of trading. They will also be serving their in-game purpose: leveling Pokemon. As such, the Pokemart will still offer a weekly candy to members.
Then you haven't stripped them of any of their current-day value whatsoever. As Loki has tirelessly pointed out, candies were never (and have never been) an "official currency" of FB, nor did they attain their status as a de facto currency out of thin air. Candies gained their value because of what they offered. They were:
  • scarce
  • yet reliably replenishable
  • one of only two timely means by which to increase your Pokémon's levels
    • levels mattered for PC slots
    • levels mattered for campaigns with level restrictions
    • levels mattered for RPing (e.g. getting access to certain moves, forms, or abilities)
  • tradeable
And you're taking exactly none of these things away from them.

Look at Heart Scales. Heart Scales never took off as a big currency in FB, though they did (once upon a time) command an understood value in the economy of 3 candies for every 1 Heart Scale. Why were the "more valuable" Heart Scales so unpopular then? Because: too scarce, not reliably replenishable, and had no impact on levels. Sure, Heart Scales could be used at the Move Tutor to learn select moves ... but ... that wasn't incentive enough for most people. Most people just said, "Forget it," and gave up on Heart Scales.

Look at Gummis. Why did Gummis never take off as a big currency in FB? They were individually much less scarce than candies. (A member could gain well over 52 Gummis in one year by simple Halloween, FB Birthday, Christmas, New Year's, Valentine's, and Easter pickups.) They were as reliably replenishable, only seasonally instead of weekly. And they had RP benefits! You could catch middle-stage wild Pokémon! You could gain new moves and attributes in battle! What's not to love? ... Well, apparently, most members thought Gummis were dumb. I should know: as one of the few people in FB who ever wanted to scrape together gummis, I found it very easy over the years to find willing parties for trade. Sure, as other people joined me in wanting gummis, I didn't get as good of deals as I once did. Which is to say, gummis gained some "market value" in between 2012 and 2016. But as recently as 2017, gummis are something that most members who want them can easily get them -- because there's no shortage of members who see them as trade fodder and nothing better. Candies were never like this. Candies were never "nothing but trade fodder" to people. Oh, they were trade fodder, alright! But they were trade fodder and something else. And that something else of course was, all of the other benefits I already listed above for candies. You could raise your levels and gain more PC slots. You could raise your levels and have more room to stretch while RPing. You could raise your levels and journey alongside your favorite non-basic stages of Pokémon. "IQ?" asked most members. "Who cares about IQ? It's not like it actually impacts my RPing or anything ..." I can guarantee you this much: if FB decides to ever link IQ with the D&D equivalent of INT or WIS (and the corresponding skill checks), Gummis will skyrocket in value to RPers. Until that day comes along, Gummis don't mean shit. Except to weirdos like me who just plain don't like the idea of a legendary like Azelf sitting at 0 IQ when, in my view, he's a lesser deity created by Dialga and Palkia and should totally have an IQ of 100.

So long as candies 1) are tradeable and 2) do what they do, you're not going to be able to get rid of their value. People will always want candies, for the same reasons that the early FBers ended up lending candies their unintended role as currency.

Easy solution to the candy currency problem: candies can no longer be traded. Done. Solved.

Less easy solution to the candy currency problem: promote consumption to a point that no one can or wants to hoard.

One possible example-solution for the less-easy case: make it so that all candies, retroactively and going forward, have a lifetime of 30 days. (Older candies than this rule change do not start their 30-day decay cycle until the moment their owner picks up or trades for their very first candy since the passage of the new rule. This allows older members to sit on their stockpiles for a while if they'd like to, no rush. This also does not disadvantage missing members who return.) If you want to collect candies, then you have to use them. No hoarding. No stockpiling. Can't really hoard things when they expire. (Do you see hoards of Pumpkin Memory Berries?)
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Old 04-23-2017, 10:35 PM   #8
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Apologies for the double post, but what started as a reply to the Starters thread is really better off here.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Serious question: what is the point of an "ultra rare"? Unintentionally, the rarity system promotes economization of the game. (And I thought you guys didn't want that!) Intentionally, it creates an artificial sense of accomplishment for players who finally obtain what they're after.

The thing is, if you guys can really make the zones thrive again, people won't be getting thrills out of Capture #n being an ultra rare anywhere near to the thrill level they'll be having to quite simply completing their dream team. You don't need artificial rarities to generate excitement. The proof of this lies in the opposite corner -- your guys' confidence in players not feeling bored if updaters consult their wishlists to custom tailor their zone capture opportunities. If that's not boring to people, and if the thrill rests in getting who you want, then it makes little difference whether they're a Common or a Super Rare.

But the one thing I am certain of is, rarity lists breed economization of the game. You can do away with the Egg House ... So long as players can still obtain new Pokémon and can still trade, rarity lists will inevitably make certain Pokémon more badly sought after than others -- and that in turn greases the wheels of economy.

Not saying rarity lists are objectively bad. Just saying, you need to think this one over thoroughly. Up until this week, all I ever heard was how terrible economization was. And yet now, as you stand at the crossroads of opportunity, finally able to rid yourselves of the much maligned source of so much angst and bitterness ...
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Old 04-23-2017, 11:01 PM   #9
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Honestly the rarity system just is it's own kettle of fish and should be treated as such instead of being allowed to further clog up other threads that could function fine without it being figured out. The economy has no need to figure out what 'mon would be rare or whathaveyou, just whether or not rare 'mon would even be sold (and that's a waiting point to begin with). Same really goes for the starter discussion, rarity of individual 'mon means very little, it's whether we allow for the rarity cutoff points to matter in picking your starter that does.

That said, rarities for 'mon when it comes to zones, eggs, etc. is a hotbutton topic so if someone could get around to having a thread made for that when they have time I'm sure everyone would be appreciative.
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Old 04-23-2017, 11:29 PM   #10
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The economy has no need to figure out what 'mon would be rare or whathaveyou
Sure, but your writing here (and in other posts) conveys to me that when you say "economy" you're thinking more along the lines of innocuous SP/dollars and not along the more insidious "controversial" lines of a full-blown ECONOMY. The common understanding in FB with "economy" is, well, the all-encompassing economy: candies, raremons, all of it. I know you're no stranger to this. Hell, I know we're no strangers to this. (Zorua. You wanting a Misdreavus around the same time I was gunning for my second. Petilil. List might go further!) From what you write, I feel like we're on very similar pages -- a basic economy lowercase 'e' is fine, a full-blown Economy capital 'E' takes away from the focus of the RP too much and has historically been the cause of too much unhappiness. I definitely think the 'E'conomy must be discussed, even if you don't want to discuss it in the 'e'conomy thread.

Which brings us then to ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneaze View Post
That said, rarities for 'mon when it comes to zones, eggs, etc. is a hotbutton topic so if someone could get around to having a thread made for that when they have time I'm sure everyone would be appreciative.
I mean, I'm opinionated and good-intentioned but I also am recusing myself mostly from things like thread creation or idea steering simply because I view myself as de facto retired at this point (too busy with a lot of other pursuits right now) and I believe in the importance of the discussions being led and championed by those most passionate about this game's future. tl;dr if this was an indirect request for me to make the thread I easily can but I think it's best that one of the five or ten of you who have been leading a lot of this renovation discussion to do so instead.
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Old 04-23-2017, 11:41 PM   #11
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I'm fine with the rarity system as it is. Quite frankly, as much as I love the bugger to death, Stufful should not be easy to find, because it's not easy to find in the games. Now, making it, like, Ultra Rare to match the 5% encounter rate it had is just dumb (<10% encounter rates are dumb and GF needs to stop doing them), but it's certainly not gonna be as populous as, say, Mudbray ought to be, as it's found in quite a few areas and not all that hard to run into in them. The system jut makes sense from a lore standpoint. If something is hard to find in the wild, if not impossible, outside Fizzytopia, why should it be too much different in Fizzytopia?
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Old 04-24-2017, 12:17 AM   #12
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Don't worry Talon it was just an indirect request to anyone as I was about to cook dinner. And I'm glad you see where I'm coming from. I've written the fullblown Economy for ASB basically from scratch and I can tell right here and now that's not what FB needs. It's not a competitive market (by and large) and really things just need priced to feel reasonable for personal progression purposes as opposed to in a way that makes it actually super difficult to get that thing that would be a major gamechanger if this was a more competitive game.
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Old 04-28-2017, 12:21 PM   #13
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So Sneaze I know you have economy experience where I don't, so I'm interested in your opinions on what I proposed earlier.
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Old 04-28-2017, 01:32 PM   #14
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So by and large it looks decent enough, the real issue I take is the $750 cost for things but that's just me not liking numbers that could otherwise be more rounded. That said I definitely want to hear some more opinions on all of this.
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Old 04-28-2017, 03:22 PM   #15
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In fairness, $750 was just an example. :p
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Old 04-30-2017, 08:23 PM   #16
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May be relevant to post this here.

http://forums.upnetwork.net/showthre...118#post789118
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Old 05-01-2017, 08:13 AM   #17
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So since discussion here was requested. I’m mostly just summing up what others have stated and giving my input on that. If anyone disagrees with a statement or has something to add then please do. Also, it would help if we had an understanding on where to draw the line for the Pokédollar/Coin split.

Rare Candies
The options/decisions I’ve seen mentioned are:
1. Not having Candies be used as payment in shops
2. Keeping the 5 Rare Candy limit on trades in Cable Club, or possibly lowering it
3. Removing the free give-away to stop the free influx of Rare Candies
4. Have Rare Candies be incorporated as an item like any other; purchasable in shops, obtainable in zones, etc.

We all seem to agree on point 1 it seems. I want to keep point 2 as well and think five is a good enough limit. I’m in favour of point 3 and 4 but I’m not too fussed to argue about this if others disagree.

Pokédollars:
How to earn:
We all seem to agree that we want to stick with the $250 per zone reply, and that therefore, the price of items should be adjusted to match an income we anticipate for a player. Personally, I think 1 zone reply a week (or; $250 a week) is a fair anticipation, and it’s a speed that’s already higher than I’ve ever seen FB had. So for Daycare and Move Tutor I think $750 is a bit steep (I know it was only an example). A $100 for each sounds fair to me. It would already force someone to reply to a zone at least once a week to continue their shopping, while still giving them $50 to put in the bank or spend on other commodities.
I’m in favour of having zone replies be the only method of earning Pokédollars other than event give-aways. In other words; Rare Candies and Coins can’t be converted to Pokédollars. Whether other, regular, items can be sold for Pokédollars though, hasn’t been discussed. I don’t think anyone ever bothers selling stuff to a shop though, but if we wanted to I’d say it’s half price of what the cost in a shop is; simple and easy.

How to spend:
We all seem to agree that Pokédollars are spent on more ‘day-to day’ tasks and items. There’s only a small discrepancy though concerning what else it can be spent on. At the very least we agree on the shops 1) Daycare, 2) Move Tutor and 3) Adoption Centre as requiring Pokédollars as form of payment. I think we can decide on the other shops one at a time though as we discuss them.
Though it's been mentioned before, it hasn't been mentioned here: Pokédollars should be convertable to Coins (at a cost) and be usable in trades without limit (unlike the Rare Candies). I think most were in favour of this.

Coins:
How to earn:
We all seem to agree that an RNG fashion like the Casino is not the best form of income for a currency. Other options mentioned as possible methods for income included; 1) Reward for out-of-zone competitions (PvP Battles, Gym Challenges, Contests, etc.), 2) Event give-aways, 3) Zone Rewards (like every other item) and 4) A “Coin Zone”. I’m personally in favour of only having option 1 and 2, however I have to admit that these two methods are a long way off from being a sustainable method of income and that something like a “Coin Zone” would be warranted to make up for the loss until we do. I’m still opposed to having a zone that’s geared solely to the idea of rewarding currency but I can bend on this and see that it’s necessary unless a better solution comes by.
In addition, it was mentioned that coins could be earned by converting Pokédollars, though the caveat was added that it should not be the most efficient way of obtaining them. I agree with this.

How to spend:
Coins cannot be converted to Pokédollars though, and I’m in favour of not allowing it to be used in trades.
Most people seem to vote in favour of having a single “Game Shop” where coins are spent on items. Everyone agrees that these items should be “Luxury Commodities” though it hasn’t fully been decided what that is. Some rewards should remain exclusive to the Staff Forum shop to incentivize people to update, and I agree with that sentiment.

Coin Wipe
I was previously against this because I had built up a small stash but I’ve come to agree that this is necessary to wipe the slate clean. I wanted to have some form of ‘last chance bargain hunting’ shop so players had a chance to use their coins one last time, but honestly I think it would waste a lot of time trying to set that up. (Also it occurs to me that if we’re going to wipe the coins away, we could rename it if we want to. ‘Trainer Points’ comes to mind for instance.)

-----

So one other thing we need to determine is what commodities can be purchased with which currency, as there’s a small disparity on this. While not outright needed now I think it would help to know where everyone stands on this. Similar to OM, I’m presenting my opinion on these splits by providing a list. I included the Staff Shop as I believe some items should remain staff-only to incentivize updating and running a shop. I realise there’s a separate thread for it but it felt easier to have them side-by-side here.

Spoiler: show
Pokédollars:
-Daycare
-Move Tutor (EM, MT and HM)
-Adoption Centre
-Breeding Centre
-Beauty Salon
-Standard Pokémart Items
-Basic Items (easily obtainable in-game - eg Incense and Gems, not those required for evolution)
-Regular Pokéballs (those that are purchasable in-game - eg Dusk and Ultra, not Cherish or Master Balls)
-Gummis?
-Berries?
-Pokéblocks/Poffins/Sweets?
Coins:
-Boutique
-Base Shop
-TMs
-Advanced Items (those that can be purchased in in-game Battle Shops - eg Life Orb and Leftovers)
-Contest Items
-Apricorn Pokéballs (Friend, Heavy, etc.) and Cherish Ball
-Evolution Stones
-Evolution Items
-Mega Stones?
-Z Crystals?
Staff Shop:
-Shiny Spray
-Devolution Spray
-Custom TMs
-Custom Items
-Custom Pokéballs
-Passes?
-Eggs?
-Ability Capsule? (Convert a Pokémon’s ability to its Hidden Ability)
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Old 05-01-2017, 11:49 AM   #18
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I'll address EAI directly.

Pokedollars: I agree with most of the points brought up here, with the major exception that I am firmly in the "Pokedollars should not be convertible to coins" camp. To do so would stand to massively devalue what we more or less consider a luxury currency, and equivalently devalue them as obtainable rewards in-zone (Which I am in favor of). I am of the belief that the Pokedollar should operate with no relation to coins, or any other forms of currency that we may decide to implement.

Coins: Because I feel that Pokedollars should be non-convertible, I think all four of the options listed in your post can and should be used to distribute coins (although I do not think a traditional "Coin Zone" fits the bill, I believe there is an implementation which would more or less accomplish this. See the Guildhouse suggestion, and potentially give feedback, as it is heavily a work in progress). I also firmly believe that a Coin Wipe is entirely necessary to re-stabilize the luxury item economy; allowing people to keep their hoarde of coins from the previous, broken system will only make the new distribution harder to balance.

We also should not rename coins. Especially not to Trainer Points. ASB already has those.
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Old 05-01-2017, 03:42 PM   #19
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Basically echoing Alto's sentiments here, so I'll go into obtainables instead.

Keep the Boutique at Dollars and have the Base Shop at Dollars. There is no need in gating these shops, especially with a coin wipe. Move the Shiny and Devolution sprays to be coin purchased at the Boutique. There is no reason to keep these out of public hands; they are the definition of Luxury Items in my eyes.

In terms of passes I feel that they shouldn't be stackablr anymore, and that if we allow Eggs to be bought with our Disney Dollars yhrn they need to be expensive if you don't want a Numel. Just my two cents.
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Old 05-01-2017, 05:23 PM   #20
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Re: Candies

So it's probably best to try to demonetizing candies - their presence in the market isn't particularly useful - but it's also worth considering their impact on the game overall. From a game design perspective, the important thing to consider before nixing the weekly candy (not considering economic implications) is how quickly you want someone to be able to level their Pokémon. One good advantage to the weekly candy is that it allows people to put aside levels, so to speak, and allow them to quickly level up a Pokémon they might get down the road.

It's also just worth considering progression in general. I know the theme of this whole reboot has been "RP first, shops second" (and I have also tried to bring the discussion to that myself) but shops do exist for a good reason, as the way the game is structured at its core, it's not easy to do everything through RP and doing everything through RP isn't always super engaging. But I think it's worth it to make it possible for a dedicated member to give a new Pokémon a little bit of a boost right off the bat (via Candies or otherwise) so they can use their new acquisition right away instead of waiting a full year to get it up to snuff.

Just a consideration!
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Old 05-02-2017, 10:42 AM   #21
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Addressing these issues one by one:

Pokédollars
I think it depends on how you look at coins as currency. Quite a few people have voted their favour for conversion. In part I think this is because coins have always been purchasable by Rare Candies and people wanted to keep that original aspect but have it be Pokédollars-to-Coins instead. The crux was that it was meant to be an expensive way of earning Coins; with RP-earned Pokédollars.
Since the method was meant to be expensive (and thus largely unused in my eyes) I suggest we keep them non-convertible for the time being with the option of adding in a a conversion table later on if needed. It's much easier than having to do it the other way around.
If anyone feels strongly about implementing currency-conversion NOW, then please state your reason why.

Coins
Sorry, but I'm against having coins earned as Zone Rewards. They can be earned like any other item but I'd prefer other methods being a more sustainable way of earning them. It's mostly because when I envisioned the two currencies, we had one that was general and earned by RPing; the prime focus of FB, with the other currency being earned through 'other' methods that fell outside of RP.
Let it be known that I simply dislike any form of zone or short RP just for earning coins, whether that's the Coin Zone or the Guildhouse. Dislike, not against. If any coin-earning method is fully fleshed out to work I can live with it.
In general; I agree with Alto's statements on this but I want Zone Reward coin amounts to be relatively low when compared to other methods.

Coin Wipe
This issue was raised again on Discord with some opposition. The Coin wipe I feel has to happen for practical reasons. There was talk of finding a fair way to convert it to the new currency or find a way members can spend their old currency one last time before it's lost. If someone has an idea on this then please let us know.

Obtainable Lists
I'm fine with allowing Shiny Spray and Devolution Spray to be purchasable by coins.
Passes shouldn't stack - yes I agree, but one pass should be worth the purchase.
Eggs made expensive if purchasable - absolutely. I'm hesitant to bring forward any price though until we have a fully operational economy.

Boutique and Base Shop I'm against having as Pokédollars. I consider both as luxury options a player can have that stands apart from the general needs of RPing. For bases it has already been stated that players should get a start-up Base upon registration, with the option of expanding it thereafter. I wouldn't exactly call it gated then. The Boutique is part luxury, and part me not wanting to have two types of currency used in a shop if unnecessary (since we're having Shiny/Devolution sprays be coin-spent). A ridiculous reason perhaps but I don't consider this shop to be on par with Daycare and AC necessities.

Rare Candies
I honestly forgot about that aspect. I mostly looked at it from a 'how to further demonetize it' stance. I have to admit that I've done exactly the thing Jeri mentioned and I would miss having that option. Like I said I wasn't too fussed about that topic, so I'm changing my stance to keeping the weekly give-away for now, (among other reasons of course that have been mentioned).


EDIT: Oh yeah, and as for the Trainer Points, I completely forgot that was the term used in ASB. Whoops.
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Old 05-03-2017, 09:33 AM   #22
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I think making coins adventure rewards is simply the best way to distribute them at the moment. We have no idea whether other features such as Trainer Battles or the TCG are coming back, and if we don't have them, simply put there will be no way to make coins otherwise. I like the idea of tying both forms of currency to RPing honestly.

Coins should be used for the Boutique and the Base Shop, not Pokedollars. They are 100% luxury options that have very little impact on how you play the game. In addition, I feel that other things that can be purchasable with coins: TMs (at the very least, "high-end" TMs like Fire Blast or Hyper Beam), rarer held items such as Life Orb or Leftovers, custom items and TMs, and a limited supply of eggs, if we feel that is a good idea.
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Old 05-03-2017, 11:04 AM   #23
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I'd like to see the weekly candy stay. It gives a nice little boost to the economy and -- more importantly -- it gives members a way to save up a little nest egg. Even with all these plans to make levels more available in RP, the fact of the matter is, they're hard to come by. To use a personal example, because they're my forte:

My Vullaby is Lv. 06. She will not evolve until Lv. 54. 54 - 06 = 48.

That's 48 levels to go. That's nearly a year in the daycare. Alternatively, assuming 5 levels gained per an adventure, and assuming I used her in every adventure I go on, that's over 9 adventures.

I know I'm here to RP and all that jazz, but I'm a (nearly) 27 year old college student. I got shit to do. Ain't nobody got time for that. :P

That's all I came here to say. Don't take the Monday Candy away. I very much feel like progress would be significantly handicapped without it.

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Old 05-03-2017, 01:12 PM   #24
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Keeping the Monday candy I think is a good thing. Ultimately, its another way for people to level their Pokemon.

Also, are we planning on changing the amount of Pokedollars we give out for replies? I was under the assumption that wasn't being planned on changed since the Pokedollar "economy" is already pretty optimized for $250 per reply.
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Old 05-03-2017, 02:17 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emi View Post
Keeping the Monday candy I think is a good thing. Ultimately, its another way for people to level their Pokemon.
Agreed completely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emi View Post
Also, are we planning on changing the amount of Pokedollars we give out for replies? I was under the assumption that wasn't being planned on changed since the Pokedollar "economy" is already pretty optimized for $250 per reply.
My personal opinion, this is one of those things that fall under "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
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