Fate/stay night

[lilboocorsola]

I just came across the initial concept art for FSN's protagonist and Saber. The original designs were surprising, to say the least. It would've been rather interesting to play as a female in an action-oriented VN - so long as she's less dense than Shirou and still takes an active role. The concept kinda reminds me of Alucard's Master Integra from Hellsing (though I've not seen the show). Perhaps the prologue was told from Rin's perspective as an homage to the scrapped idea.

Anyway, putting HF on hold for two weeks like I mentioned in the suggestion thread.

*suppresses urge to imagine an alternate genderbent universe for FSN*

[Doppleganger]

Saver was supposed to have Shirou's personality from what I heard a long time ago, and his major enemy remained Gilgamesh. Archer wasn't even concieved of at this point, I think Gilgamesh might have ended up as Rin's Archer.

[Talon87]

I like the fact that Arthur is Arturia if for no other reason than it really drives home (or should I say, it really makes easy to follow?) the lesson that Saber is not like the other Servants because she has been summoned prior to death rather than after death and, as such, she is summoned as she really existed and not necessarily as we know her today through legends. What better way to drive this point home than to summon the totally masculine King Arthur but have him be a woman instead?

And it fits in pretty well with the time period, too: before the invasions by the Romans and the Scandinavians, English society was matriarchical according to some (see: The Mists of Avalon, see also: NBC's television movie Merlin). And even if it wasn't, the evidence is clear that pre-Roman or early-Roman Britain was a world where women were just as likely to become leaders of men as were men. For example, Boudica was a Welsh queen who led an uprising against the Romans occupying the land of her ancestors. And her contemporary Cartimandua was a queen in northern England who allied with Rome rather than putting up resistance. These historical facts [?] suggest that a female Arthur could have been possible, and Type-MOON delightfully plays with that idea.

Now, I'm not saying I'm a big fan of Saber being a girl. Tonight (2/22/2011) I don't particularly care much one way or the other. And I'm having trouble remembering what I initially felt back in 2006, 2007 when I first found out about FSN and Saber's role in it. All I'm saying is, changing the Servant's gender has got to be one of the most solid ways to drive home the point that a Servant summoned before death will be summoned as he/she truly was and not as we remember him/her.

[lilboocorsola]

When I first saw the animé, I totally thought the story was intentionally built around the central idea that Saber was a girl. Like the thought just randomly occurred to Nasu one day: "Hey, what if King Arthur was actually female? Wouldn't that be some crazy shit?" And then he simply went from there. The Holy Grail War and the Master-Servant relationship were just afterthoughts to provide a proper setting and explanation.

(...Maybe I'm the only one who jumps to weird conclusions like that. >>; )

Of course, in the back of my mind I always figured the main reason was to simply add more moe to the harem. =x Which is fine with me, since Saber is adorable. In all of the paths I still found her the cutest character. Never got to see her pouty face in the animé, tee hee~

*ahem* Basically, I admire cute/beautiful girls who can kick ass and/or fend for themselves. So I personally appreciate the decision to make the strongest fighter - not to mention leader of a country - a woman who's completely unconcerned about her gender. Historically accurate or not, it's the innovation that counts in my book.

On a random-ish but related topic, I thought it might be interesting if we propose ideas for which heroic spirits might have been summoned to each class had all their genders been reversed (disregarding potential crossdressing situations like Saber's). I've been trying to think of historical female figures who might fit the roles but can't name any off the top of my head, save perhaps Artemis as an Archer. Though I guess that's to be expected, given the relative shortage of famous female heroes, real or mythological. x_X

Do you guys know any more? Suggestions for a male Caster and Rider are also welcome.

Oh, and I think it goes without saying that any Fourth War Servants are out as candidates. No spoilers please.

[lilboocorsola]

I'm home for spring break, so I'll be picking up with Heaven's Feel again and charging full-speed ahead. Better watch out, Talon.

Edit- Just encountered D___ _____ for the first time. I want to clarify that I originally thought Talon was previously referring to D___ ______, whose name I'd heard before. Never heard of nor seen D___ _____ until now (or rather until I saw the wallpaper).

...The Sakura sex scene was the worst yet. So many things wrong with it, in so many ways. XD There's one that I feel I have to point out:

Originally Posted by Shirou

The varying movements are like those of an educated prostitute.

Shirou would know this... How? I thought UBW confirmed he was a virgin. *insert roll-eyes emoticon*

[Doppleganger]

Supposedly, when Japanese kids bang each other, the women is supposed to be completely submissive (unresponsive) and the guy assertive. An assertive girl is apparently the hallmark of someone with experience.

I once read a woman talk about her Japanese boyfriend "feeling gay" when they banged each other, because of how aggressive she was in bed. Normally, that's the guy's role. It's the whole seme-uke thing, the girl apparently turned her BF into an uke.

...why do I know this? >.>

[lilboocorsola]

Just cleared HF (both Normal and True endings). I'll wait for Talon to catch up before discussing it in-depth, as he's bound to catch more issues/feel more strongly about them than I, whether they're positive or negative. Couple things I want to remark on though:

Spoiler: show

What's up with Shirou pulling Rule Breaker all of a sudden out his ass? Yeah, he saw Caster holding it for a split-second very early on, and somehow deduced its properties just from one glance. Back then I was even more confused: How in the world did he gain that instinctive foreknowledge? I might've let it slide like summoning Archer's Rho Aias against Dark Saber if there were some logical explanation for information from previous paths leaking into Shirou's brain, but there were none. It feels like the writer just conveniently threw it in there in order to pull a deus ex at the end.

Disappointment over not being able to save Saber is a given. Moving on.

Both possible endings leave a bad taste in my mouth since they basically go against the principles Fate and UBW enforced. In the end, it's exactly as Shirou predetermined: He gave up his ideal of helping others to protect just one person. He was willing to sacrifice everyone in order to save Sakura, and many did die as a result of that.

I certainly don't mean to deny Sakura the human right to live or find happiness. What gets me is that Shirou told her she should live so she can "take responsibility" for all those people's deaths. And what does she do in the Normal end (which I first saw)? Weep and grow flowers. Uh, way to honor Shirou's dying wish and contribute to society, girl.

The True End is all right, since Sakura's cheerful with Shirou there and all and claims she'll "do her best". Vague promises don't mean much to me after seeing how she dealt with the remorse in the Normal End though. Give us some substance to back up those words please - at the very least a hint of what she plans to do in the future to atone for her sins.

Maybe I'm too harsh and demanding of a perfect ideal like the one Shirou followed in Fate and UBW. Can't say I enjoyed HF as much as the other two paths for that reason. My feelings towards Sakura haven't changed significantly. I still see her as a weak person - in fact more so for not growing stronger and learning to overcome obstacles on her own after all she's been through. It's just...

Spoiler: show

The prince and princess lived Happily Ever After, huh? *sigh*

[Talon87]

Awwww, I'm feeling awfully Ben Kenobi right about now. But I got distracted this weekend, playtesting the Pokemon Black game (EU rom) on Saturday and then watching some more of the BW anime on Sunday, catching up to where the sub group I'm following has left off. I've got some exams this week, but my spring break begins next week, so maybe then I'll beat it, who knows.

Sorry to hear you didn't like it as much as Fate or UBW. That seems to be somewhat common, with HF fans being a vocal minority. I'd heard ages ago that it was one of those cases where one would either love Heavens Feel or hate it. I'd also heard ages ago that it was very dark. If that's true, and if it's the dark or cynical spin which you disliked the most, then that may bode poorly for your Fate/Zero prospects this fall -- since I've also heard that Fate/Zero is incredibly dark, pessimistic, cynical, etc. Basically, all the masters are assholes to varying extents is what I've heard. Though I have a hard time accepting that for Waver Velvet: he seems like a cool kid who just got in over his head from what little I know about him.

[Doppleganger]

HF is only dark in the sense of the main characters being in an absolutely hopeless situation. Even in Fate, against Berserker, there was never a single instance of Shirou/Saber ever thinking they didn't have a snowball's chance of winning. But in HF, the main characters are fudged over, and over, and the reader shocked at the brutality and ruthlessness of Sakura.

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

Just cleared HF (both Normal and True endings). I'll wait for Talon to catch up before discussing it in-depth, as he's bound to catch more issues/feel more strongly about them than I, whether they're positive or negative. Couple things I want to remark on though:

Spoiler: show

What's up with Shirou pulling Rule Breaker all of a sudden out his ass? Yeah, he saw Caster holding it for a split-second very early on, and somehow deduced its properties just from one glance. Back then I was even more confused: How in the world did he gain that instinctive foreknowledge? I might've let it slide like summoning Archer's Rho Aias against Dark Saber if there were some logical explanation for information from previous paths leaking into Shirou's brain, but there were none. It feels like the writer just conveniently threw it in there in order to pull a deus ex at the end.

Spoiler: show

Shirou has the ability to "Google" Archer's arm for weapons he could use in a situation. He basically searched for a weapon that could destroy talismans and came up with Rule Breaker, which Archer properly encountered in his scenario.

[lilboocorsola]

It's not the darkness that I mind so much. I love me some angst and drama. It's the fact that Shirou - champion of truth and justice and whatnot - turned his back on all of that to fulfill his own selfish desire. I understand you should treasure yourself and the people you love first and foremost. But like what you said, I want to have my cake and eat it too. I would desire to protect Sakura as well as the townspeople. I'm not mad that Shirou threw away the cake for a cherry (potential for an awful pun? *shot*), but I am disappointed he purposefully forgot the recipe and never tried to bake a new one. Or at least build a shrine and pay tribute to the cake (...even if it's a lie *shot repeatedly*). I dunno which analogy makes more sense, if at all. ^^;;;

...Darn. Now I crave cake. x.X

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

Spoiler: show

Shirou has the ability to "Google" Archer's arm for weapons he could use in a situation. He basically searched for a weapon that could destroy talismans and came up with Rule Breaker, which Archer properly encountered in his scenario.

Spoiler: show

By "his scenario", are you referring to UBW? How does that work? Or do I not want to know?

Oh, yeah. I had another question for Dopple:

Spoiler: show

The Rin sex scene. What was the significance of this? From your hint, I feel it has something to do with Rider. Sakura's freakout over Rider's veil also suggests to me that Rider's eyes also possess some power of seduction. But I don't recall Shirou ever getting exposed to her gaze before the dream. Even if Rider was the one influencing Shirou's mind, I don't see what bearing it would have on the plot, if at all.

Also, I'm missing one CG from the "Another" Gallery. It's the only one on the last page, so I'm guessing it's either special or from a hidden H-scene. Any tips on how to get it?

[Doppleganger]

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

I'm not mad that Shirou threw away the cake for a cherry (potential for an awful pun? *shot*)

Ooh, I like the way you think. Well done, well done!

*claps*

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

...Darn. Now I crave cake. x.X

I'm pretty sugar-doped myself, so I'll pass.

But to answer your analogy, Nasu sees the two objectives as mutually exclusive. Shirou inherently understands that Sakura's mind is so screwed up that if he wasn't willing to burn all of Fuyuki to save her, she didn't have a chance of being saved. Most heroes in Shirou's position would try to save everyone, but Nasu wanted to make this route be distinct from UBW and Fate, which sort of overlap with that ideal.

HF annoyed me because it stripped away one of Shirou's personality definitions that made him unique - his idealism. Most idealists in his situation have the power to change the world (like Kururugi Suzaku) so they're never faced with their ideals being questioned/doubted, they overpower everything and enforce their will on the world. Those who don't have the power die. Here, Shirou is a guy without the power, but managed to survive yet still clinged to the ideal. Taking away that ideal pretty much reduces him to a Rambo caricature. HF Shirou is without a doubt the most hardcore and impressive of the Shirous in FSN (save Archer), but he's also on a self-destructive path and it's an extraordinary devotion toward an ordinary objective.

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

Spoiler: show

By "his scenario", are you referring to UBW? How does that work? Or do I not want to know?

Basically Archer's route.

What we know of Archer's route is he saw Gate of Babylon and recorded all the swords in it for his UBW, and went around the world after that to get other weapons like Rho Aias and Gungnir. HF Shirou can't record stuff properly in UBW because he lacks the mentality that gave rise to UBW.

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

Spoiler: show

The Rin sex scene. What was the significance of this? From your hint, I feel it has something to do with Rider. Sakura's freakout over Rider's veil also suggests to me that Rider's eyes also possess some power of seduction. But I don't recall Shirou ever getting exposed to her gaze before the dream. Even if Rider was the one influencing Shirou's mind, I don't see what bearing it would have on the plot, if at all.

Spoiler: show

Rider was having sex with Shirou, and was using her eyes to hypnotize him into thinking it was Rin. I believe Sakura sent Rider to him with the purpose of servicing him and getting a mana recharge, but Rider actually likes Shirou a lot (just not as much as Ayako).

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

Also, I'm missing one CG from the "Another" Gallery. It's the only one on the last page, so I'm guessing it's either special or from a hidden H-scene. Any tips on how to get it?

Might be one of the Bad Ends. Is it an HF scene?

[Talon87]

On the topic of fangirl-speculating about possible Heroic Spirits, did you guys know that the face cards in a 52-deck of cards are all based on legendary characters according to French tradition? I didn't know this. I learned it just now while Wikipedia'ing "Jack (cards)" because, while eating my dinner in front of the computer, I was wondering just where on earth the name "jack" came from for playing cards and what the Jack really was. (I'd always thought he was the Prince. Turns out he's just some knave in the service of the Royal Court!)

So. Anyway. Relevancy to FSN: have you ever heard the story of Ogier the Dane? It sounds pretty cool, and I'd like to submit him to the list of interesting Heroic Spirits I would love to see in other Grail Wars.

Name: Ogier the Dane
Servant Class: Saber, Berserker
Noble Phantasm: Cortana (sword)
History: Ogier is the son of Geoffrey, king of Denmark. In La Chevalerie Ogier de Danemarche, he had a son who was slain by Charlot, son of Charlemagne. Seeking revenge, Ogier sought out and slew Charlot, and was only barely prevented from killing Charlemagne. He resisted Charlemagne for seven years but made peace with him to fight at Charlemagne's side against the Saracens, in which battle he slew the giant Brehus.
Other Names: Ogier le Danois (modern French), Ogier de Danemarche (archaic French), Holger Danske (Danish)
Iconography: you can see a statue of Ogier here

Ogier's story has all the right ingredients. He seeks paternal revenge against the son, Charlot, of the founding monarch of France, Charlemagne, for having killed his own boy. After exacting that revenge, so blinded is he by grief and anger that he almost takes the life of Charlemagne as well. For seven years the two were bitter enemies until one day they had to unite against a common foe. Charlemagne led his troops into battle and Ogier proved to be one of the greatest men in all the land, slaying a mythic beast -- a giant! -- and fending off the invaders. He became one of Charlemagne's knights. This in spite of the fact that he had killed Charlemagne's son years earlier! What fate! That yesteryear's villain would be tomorrow's brother-in-arms?

He's not exactly famous to us, but in France he was at one time so famous, apparently, that -- you've already guessed it -- he was immortalized as the Jack of Spades. Kinda neat, huh? He may not be all too famous, but Doppel's always saying that that's what a Master would desire in a Servant in a Grail War anyway: an identity that's tough to decipher.

Only problem I can see in Ogier's legend is that, from the little I've read, he didn't meet his end in any particular way which opens itself up to a weakness. No Achilles heel, no Kryptonite. This might not mesh well with the FSN universe Nasu has crafted seeing as all of the previous Servants have all had something which served as their weak point. Something might have to be invented for an FSN Ogier were he to be summoned to serve as his personal vice or weakpoint à la the Grail-contaminated Gilgamesh.

[Doppleganger]

That is seriously exciting, I had no freaking idea the playing card reliefs were modeled after legendary figures! I can't believe an important detail like that's sitting in plain sight...

And look, apparently Charlemagne's sword still exists today, in the Lourve. What a sight to see! My sister's going to Belgium this summer, maybe she can take a picture of it if she goes back to Paris...

[Talon87]

I was just looking at that same picture of Joyeuse on Wikipedia before refreshing this page for your reply. What a coincidence.

Be careful, though! I was reading on the Joyeuse wiki page that there have been multiple different swords to surface up over the ages all of which have been said to be the real Joyeuse. So the one in the Louvre (which goes with one of the oldest claims) may or may not be the real deal.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

It is alleged to have been interred with Charlemagne's body or contrarily to be held by the Saint Denis Basilica, where it was later retired into the Louvre after being carried at the front of Coronation processionals for French kings. Another supposed Joyeuse is held at the Imperial Treasury in Vienna.

Personally, I'd be more inclined to believe that Charlemagne was buried with it, but who knows. (Wouldn't it be easy these days to confirm the buried-with-it theory by peering into his grave with X-rays and stuff and looking for a sword? )

The "Durandal", on the other hand, leaves much to be desired. =\ Rust or no rust, it very clearly looks like some shabby meh-grade sword that someone shoved into a crevice of rock just to sell a story to tourists.

[lilboocorsola]

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

Ooh, I like the way you think. Well done, well done!

*claps*

Thank you, I try.

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

HF annoyed me because it stripped away one of Shirou's personality definitions that made him unique - his idealism. Most idealists in his situation have the power to change the world (like Kururugi Suzaku) so they're never faced with their ideals being questioned/doubted, they overpower everything and enforce their will on the world. Those who don't have the power die. Here, Shirou is a guy without the power, but managed to survive yet still clinged to the ideal. Taking away that ideal pretty much reduces him to a Rambo caricature. HF Shirou is without a doubt the most hardcore and impressive of the Shirous in FSN (save Archer), but he's also on a self-destructive path and it's an extraordinary devotion toward an ordinary objective.

It's funny. Back when I first watched the FSN animé, I could care less about Shirou's idealism. I was a cynic and a pessimist who didn't believe in the good of society or people who'd want to save it in the first place. A couple years ago when I played The Legend of Zelda: The Ocarina of Time, my view changed completely. I now admire that ideal to the very end. I will admit that in any situation where I'm unsure, I try to spur myself on by thinking: "What would Link do?"

As a result, I also unconsciously compare any protagonist to Link. I know it's unfair to hold anyone to such high standards, and that the real world is not as pure and forgiving as the beautiful Hyrule. In a sense, HF sort of reminds me of Majora's Mask, which shared a similar dark tone and themes. The difference is as you said: Link pursued in his ideal until the very end, and was able to succeed because he did have the power to change the world.

So now that I'm faced with Shirou's decisions in HF (and Archer's in UBW), it feels like a cruel, wake-up-to-reality slap in the face. As if I'm personally under attack - undermining the hopes and courage I've finally managed to build up in these past two years. Which is why I'm irrationally angry. I'm angry at FSN for making me question my beliefs, and at myself for not having the self-confidence to rise above the challenge.

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

Basically Archer's route.

What we know of Archer's route is he saw Gate of Babylon and recorded all the swords in it for his UBW, and went around the world after that to get other weapons like Rho Aias and Gungnir. HF Shirou can't record stuff properly in UBW because he lacks the mentality that gave rise to UBW.

So basically, you're referring to Archer's route as separate from any of the three paths we've seen? I guess I figured the FSN universe revolves around parallel worlds (especially thanks to the ___ _____ of Z_______) - I just don't like to think about complicated timelines if I can help it.

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

Spoiler: show

Rider was having sex with Shirou, and was using her eyes to hypnotize him into thinking it was Rin. I believe Sakura sent Rider to him with the purpose of servicing him and getting a mana recharge, but Rider actually likes Shirou a lot (just not as much as Ayako).

Spoiler: show

Who's Ayako? Or should I not know yet?

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

Might be one of the Bad Ends. Is it an HF scene?

It's from the "Another" category at the bottom of the screen, which contains some miscellaneous images and scenery.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

That is seriously exciting, I had no freaking idea the playing card reliefs were modeled after legendary figures! I can't believe an important detail like that's sitting in plain sight...

Continuing with this exciting train of thought, here are the identities for you to chew on:

Source for the following: http://www.woodenhorsebooks.com/Playing-Card-Names.html
King of Hearts: Charlemagne
Queen of Hearts: Judith (of the Book of Judith, an Apocryphal Book of the Bible)
Jack of Hearts: "La Hire," a famous French warrior a.k.a. Etienne de Vignoles
King of Spades: King David
Queen of Spades: Pallas, a.k.a. Minerva
Jack of Spades: Hogier the Dane, one of Charlemagne's paladins
King of Diamonds: Julius Caesar
Queen of Diamonds: Rachel (of the Bible)
Jack of Diamonds: Hector of Troy; alternatively, Roland of France
King of Clubs: Alexander the Great
Queen of Clubs: Argine (an anagram of Regina)
Jack of Clubs: Lancelot


Source for the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playing_cards#French

There are theories about whom the court cards represent. For example, the Queen of Hearts is believed by some to be a representation of Elizabeth of York—the Queen consort of King Henry VII of England, or it is sometimes believed to be a representation of Anne Boleyn, the second wife of Henry VIII. The United States Playing Card Company suggests that, in the past, the King of Hearts was Charlemagne, the King of Diamonds was Julius Caesar, the King of Clubs was Alexander the Great, and the King of Spades was the Biblical King David (see King (playing card)). However, the Kings, Queens, and Jacks of standard Anglo-American cards today do not represent anyone in particular. They stem from designs produced in Rouen before 1516, and, by 1540–67, these Rouen designs show well executed pictures in the court cards with the typical court costumes of the time. In these early cards, the Jack of Spades, Jack of Hearts, and King of Diamonds are shown from the rear, with their heads turned back over the shoulder so that they are seen in profile; however, the Rouen cards were so badly copied in England that the current designs are gross distortions of the originals.

What I find fascinating about the identities is how seemingly random and unrelated they are. I expected husbands to pair off with wives, or at the very least for the King and Queen identities to belong to the same faction. I certainly didn't expect Julius Caesar to be paired off with the Biblical Rachael and Hector of Troy from Homer's Iliad. What a crazy grouping! But yeah, those are the identities. And ...

Fate/Zero stuff

Spoiler: show

Notice some familiar friends in the list?

[Doppleganger]

Who is "Regina"?

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

So now that I'm faced with Shirou's decisions in HF (and Archer's in UBW), it feels like a cruel, wake-up-to-reality slap in the face. As if I'm personally under attack - undermining the hopes and courage I've finally managed to build up in these past two years. Which is why I'm irrationally angry. I'm angry at FSN for making me question my beliefs, and at myself for not having the self-confidence to rise above the challenge.

You'll love Muv-Luv Alternative.

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

So basically, you're referring to Archer's route as separate from any of the three paths we've seen? I guess I figured the FSN universe revolves around parallel worlds (especially thanks to the ___ _____ of Z_______) - I just don't like to think about complicated timelines if I can help it.

Parallel Worlds not only exist, they are the core concept of the Third Magic, which

Spoiler: show

Rin used in her Jeweled Sword of Zelretch. She pulled mana from infinite parallel worlds to make her jeweled beam.

All three FSN routes are canon, in a sense, to the TYPE-MOON multiverse. Archer's Route is believed to be different from the three seen in Fate, but actual details of Archer's two weeks during the war are sparse. The only detail known for certain is how he met Saber, and how Rin resurrected him.

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

Spoiler: show

Who's Ayako? Or should I not know yet?

She's the leader of the Archery Club. Rider seems to have an affinity for her, and it really shows in FHA. Some seem to think Shinji raped her in one of the routes after Rider drained her, I'm not sure which. It was the route where she was found unconscious near trash cans.

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

It's from the "Another" category at the bottom of the screen, which contains some miscellaneous images and scenery.

Mmm, I'm sorry to say I have no idea. If you took a snapshot of where in the category it is Talon or I might be able to locate an answer. I don't have FSN installed anymore on my PC, so I can't confirm anything.

Actually, BBB mentioned something about never deleting VNs, so maybe he could help out with that as well.

[lilboocorsola]

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

You'll love Muv-Luv Alternative.

I'd like to play it at some point. Space constraints are a major concern now though, so I need to polish off FSN first and send it packing before looking at any new VNs.

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

She's the leader of the Archery Club. Rider seems to have an affinity for her, and it really shows in FHA.

Huh, interesting. Is there a canon explanation as to why Rider's attracted to her?

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

Mmm, I'm sorry to say I have no idea. If you took a snapshot of where in the category it is Talon or I might be able to locate an answer. I don't have FSN installed anymore on my PC, so I can't confirm anything.

Actually, BBB mentioned something about never deleting VNs, so maybe he could help out with that as well.

I think the category was unlocked after beating the game. It's the only available picture on the last page - where the sex scenes usually go. Hence my puzzlement.

(I really hope it's not the scrapped ShirouxIlya CG referred to in one of the Tiger Dojos. x_X Did not need to know about that, thanks.)

[Doppleganger]

Going to be in offline mode for a bit, so before it's too late -

Beast's Lair appears to have been shut down by ProBoards for copyright infringement. Statute 25(a) is basically "we can shut down your board for any reason" but it's almost undoubtedly due to the high amount of copyrighted material, not to mention incomplete MangaGamer material, held there. No telling how long it'll be gone, but assume it's permanent since I don't think the forum can be redeemed given how much illegal material is floating in its archives. Quite a pity, it had TONS of TM information since freakin' 2002 or so that'll simply be lost to time. :/

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

I'd like to play it at some point. Space constraints are a major concern now though, so I need to polish off FSN first and send it packing before looking at any new VNs.

I'll be writing my topic in-between study and Pokemon this weekend, hopefull it'll be posted on Monday. I highly recommend this title...

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

Huh, interesting. Is there a canon explanation as to why Rider's attracted to her?

There doesn't seem to be any particular reason, she just likes Ayako. Rider's attitude in FHA may be simply an expansion on Ayako getting victimized circumstantially in FSN.

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

I think the category was unlocked after beating the game. It's the only available picture on the last page - where the sex scenes usually go. Hence my puzzlement.

(I really hope it's not the scrapped ShirouxIlya CG referred to in one of the Tiger Dojos. x_X Did not need to know about that, thanks.)

Apparently there's a bugged CG somewhere. Does this look like your library?

[Talon87]

Well, I've been distracted by the B/W rom a bit, I have to confess, but with Spring Vacation having started, I should find time to pick FSN back up. Listening to mega-epic music certainly helps the cause.

Doppel, do you think what you told us about will have any impact on an F/HA translation getting finished? It'd be a shame if that project were pulled when (afaik) it's over 50% complete right now.

[Doppleganger]

I picked a poor time to get into B/W since I have a major exam coming this Monday, and haven't had the resolute to devote proper study to it.

As for FHA I have no idea. I don't know how much organisation was specific to Beast's Lair's topic, though I doubt the staff would be stupid enough to only preserve their translated scripts in post form. Granted, I wouldn't hold it against them, BL has been around undisturbed at that address for nearly a decade, but it's still dangerously irresponsible.

[lilboocorsola]

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

Apparently there's a bugged CG somewhere. Does this look like your library?

My HF gallery looks a bit different. I have only four pages, and the images you showed me start on page two. I've also never seen the third-to-last CG of Shirou. I don't recall if I've seen the fifth-to-last image of Rin either, but I can't find it in my library.

The gallery I was referring to is called "Another", which contains "other event graphics". Anyway, I actually did find the missing image. It was unlocked by collecting all the Tiger Stamps.

So if there's nothing more, I'll probably delete FSN off my comp soon.

Although I'm still confused about your interpretation of the Rin sex scene...

Spoiler: show

If Sakura sent Rider to Shirou, wouldn't she have been aware of the "dream" without Shirou telling her about it? Plus wasn't Rider still under Shinji's control at this time?

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by official Fate/Zero anime website

マチ★アソビ Vol.6にて、Fate/Zero 第1弾PV公開決定！

5月3日（火）～5日（木）に開催される「マチ★アソビ Vol.6」にて

■TVアニメ「Fate/Zero」 第1弾PV

の公開が決定いたしました！！

動くゼロキャラクター達を始めて見られるこの機会、お見逃しなく！

【マチ★アソビ 公式HP】

http://www.machiasobi.com

On a whim, I decided to check the Fate/Zero anime webpage today to see what news had come out since I last checked it in February. It seems like there's an event called Machi Asobi and they're holding their "sixth volume" (sixth event, I presume?) from May 3 to May 5. There, ufotable will be showing the attendees their preview video (PV) for the Fate/Zero anime. So hopefully in about three weeks, we should be able to find this preview on Youtube and enjoy! And then agonize for many months whilst we wait for Fate/Zero to air. ^^;

[Talon87]

The PV I talked about was finally uploaded to the Fate/Zero official homepage a few days after Machi Asobi wrapped up. You can watch it by clicking here. You can also opt to watch it on Youtube by clicking here. (Be careful of spoilers from Youtube commenters, though!)

Enjoy!

[Doppleganger]

Saber looks great in that last scene! I was backing away at that questionable Irisviel, but that last shot was lovely. It reminds me of the Realta Nua OP work by Madhouse.

Thank the Crimson Moon for no DEEN.