Pokemon Mystery Dungeon

[SoS]

Originally Posted by Shuckle

Levels?

As I state in my first post, they're two levels apart. Ho-Oh is level 43, Lugia is level 45.

[dirkac]

Originally Posted by Mew The Gato

My childhood (that is, the present time) favours Ho-oh forever. Stealth Rock is pretty much neutralized by Regenerator, Excadrill, and Roost. I have never actually used Ho-oh, although I have used Lugia to great effect. However, I shall keep favouring Ho-oh.

Besides, I thought this was Mystery Dungeon? What can use Stealth Rock to great effect here?

Because of the way Ho-Oh is generated, using Stealth Rock and covering a large amount of the floor can net Ho-Oh Fainting in a few turns without direct contact.

It's an odd, yet usable strategy.

I personally favor Lugia over Ho-Oh in PMD.

[Kindrindra]

Yeah, the unfortunate thing is that PMD utterly tramples all over Pokemon's big 'every pokemon is unique' by making stats pretty much arbitrary.

[dirkac]

Originally Posted by Kindrindra

Yeah, the unfortunate thing is that PMD utterly tramples all over Pokemon's big 'every pokemon is unique' by making stats pretty much arbitrary.

Well, prior to GtI, at least, as in GtI Stats can't be maxed out to 999/255.

[Rakurai]

Originally Posted by Kindrindra

Yeah, the unfortunate thing is that PMD utterly tramples all over Pokemon's big 'every pokemon is unique' by making stats pretty much arbitrary.

On the plus side, it does give you more freedom to use Pokemon you actually like instead of ones that are better (Outside of level 1 dungeons, at least).

Abilities and movesets are the main determining factor in how good each Pokemon is, and pretty much every species has something that makes them worth mentioning. Though the ones with a full room attack do have quite an advantage.

[dirkac]

Originally Posted by Rakurai

On the plus side, it does give you more freedom to use Pokemon you actually like instead of ones that are better (Outside of level 1 dungeons, at least).

Abilities and movesets are the main determining factor in how good each Pokemon is, and pretty much every species has something that makes them worth mentioning. Though the ones with a full room attack do have quite an advantage.

AKA Drifblim, who'se Unburden+Ominous Wind/Silver Wind essentially allows four hits in one turn to everybody in the room with potential Stat Boosts for each hit, meaning that with only 5 enemies in the room, stats can be maxed out.

Anyway, I do like that it mant all Pokémon were usable, and that due to the system, different Pokémon than normal are more usefull, such as the aforemented Drifblim, which can also go on all terrain, than, say, a Jirachi.

[Kindrindra]

I actually think I have to disagree- I'd say that the fact that in PMD, when you compare two pokemon's stats, one will be completely better than the other, makes using your favorites less fun than in the main game, where it's more likely for two pokemon to perform slightly different roles than for one to completely outclass another. Obviously I like the idea of weaker pokemon being scaled upwards to match their brethren (I am still working on that 520BST hack, afterall), but that's not what PMD does. PMD arbitrarily gives every pokemon base stats, nineteen times out of twenty making every pokemon a Jack of All Trades. And the worst part is that they don't even do this evenly- Given pokemon will just be completely better than other pokemon before even factoring movepool and abilities. For the ones shafted by this broadbrushed way of determination (the Dunsparce of the world), their only salvation is to hope they're blessed with the movepool and abilities to make up for it. But still they're outclassed by the pokemon with both the stats and abilities to come out on top (the Drifblim of the world). Rather than being a balancer, the gameplay of PMD just picks it's own favorites and lets them shine at the expense of others.

...Which as you can tell really annoys me because it has so much raw potential. There's just so much that the inner workings of PMD are capable of, from the capacity to have multiple abilities (Guts + Quick Feet is a cool one that makes me want to try Ursaring) to the chance to gift pokemon with new 'abilities' which help to set them apart (looking at you, PMD2 IQ System; You were awesome), unique moves with effects specific to the mechanics of the world (Fling, Wide Slash, etceteraface)... Heck, there's nothing quite like using Gap Prober to launch a Leaf Storm through a row of enemies and allies and watch the enemies die and the allies emerge fine. Even nerfing the accuracy/power of room effect moves would do a lot. I mean, I'm pretty sure we all noticed how they changed the workings of speed boosts (ohai Agility) in GtI. It kept them usable without keeping them overpowered, that was fun.


I JUST WANT THE GAMEPLAY TO BE AS GOOD AS THE PLOT OKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY?? ;;

[Shuckle]

Originally Posted by Kindrindra

I actually think I have to disagree- I'd say that the fact that in PMD, when you compare two pokemon's stats, one will be completely better than the other, makes using your favorites less fun than in the main game, where it's more likely for two pokemon to perform slightly different roles than for one to completely outclass another. Obviously I like the idea of weaker pokemon being scaled upwards to match their brethren (I am still working on that 520BST hack, afterall), but that's not what PMD does. PMD arbitrarily gives every pokemon base stats, nineteen times out of twenty making every pokemon a Jack of All Trades. And the worst part is that they don't even do this evenly- Given pokemon will just be completely better than other pokemon before even factoring movepool and abilities. For the ones shafted by this broadbrushed way of determination (the Dunsparce of the world), their only salvation is to hope they're blessed with the movepool and abilities to make up for it. But still they're outclassed by the pokemon with both the stats and abilities to come out on top (the Drifblim of the world). Rather than being a balancer, the gameplay of PMD just picks it's own favorites and lets them shine at the expense of others.

...Which as you can tell really annoys me because it has so much raw potential. There's just so much that the inner workings of PMD are capable of, from the capacity to have multiple abilities (Guts + Quick Feet is a cool one that makes me want to try Ursaring) to the chance to gift pokemon with new 'abilities' which help to set them apart (looking at you, PMD2 IQ System; You were awesome), unique moves with effects specific to the mechanics of the world (Fling, Wide Slash, etceteraface)... Heck, there's nothing quite like using Gap Prober to launch a Leaf Storm through a row of enemies and allies and watch the enemies die and the allies emerge fine. Even nerfing the accuracy/power of room effect moves would do a lot. I mean, I'm pretty sure we all noticed how they changed the workings of speed boosts (ohai Agility) in GtI. It kept them usable without keeping them overpowered, that was fun.


I JUST WANT THE GAMEPLAY TO BE AS GOOD AS THE PLOT OKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY?? ;;

My beef with PMD is twofold:

Enemies worry not about PP and are always significantly weaker than the player.
Very few options for strategic placement of allies.

Both are out of necessity, and I get that. Imagine having to navigate 4 allies individually through a boring empty corridor. But the sheer amount of AI going on in this game is uncomfortable; my partners are AI. The dungeon is AI. Every single enemy is AI. NPCs are defined by their effect on you rather than your effect on them; just about the only "help" you give people is in missions (which are never done for specific Treasure Town NPCs), and they just lavish praise on you like you're some big shot. YOU REALLY AREN'T THAT GREAT. > I found myself going "Do I know you?" or "How do you even measure how great I am? Are there units?"

But the first could have been easily and painlessly worked around, but they didn't. I am not allowed to walk around Temporal Tower blasting Hydro Pump, but it seems a little unfair to make Bubblebeam better in every way than Hydro Pump, except in boss fights where PP doesn't matter. In story-mode Pokemon, PP isn't an issue. In PMD, you're gated to the max by how much PP each skill has. It's frustrating, even with plentiful Max Elixirs.

[Rakurai]

Originally Posted by Kindrindra

I actually think I have to disagree- I'd say that the fact that in PMD, when you compare two pokemon's stats, one will be completely better than the other, makes using your favorites less fun than in the main game, where it's more likely for two pokemon to perform slightly different roles than for one to completely outclass another. Obviously I like the idea of weaker pokemon being scaled upwards to match their brethren (I am still working on that 520BST hack, afterall), but that's not what PMD does. PMD arbitrarily gives every pokemon base stats, nineteen times out of twenty making every pokemon a Jack of All Trades. And the worst part is that they don't even do this evenly- Given pokemon will just be completely better than other pokemon before even factoring movepool and abilities. For the ones shafted by this broadbrushed way of determination (the Dunsparce of the world), their only salvation is to hope they're blessed with the movepool and abilities to make up for it. But still they're outclassed by the pokemon with both the stats and abilities to come out on top (the Drifblim of the world). Rather than being a balancer, the gameplay of PMD just picks it's own favorites and lets them shine at the expense of others.

...Which as you can tell really annoys me because it has so much raw potential. There's just so much that the inner workings of PMD are capable of, from the capacity to have multiple abilities (Guts + Quick Feet is a cool one that makes me want to try Ursaring) to the chance to gift pokemon with new 'abilities' which help to set them apart (looking at you, PMD2 IQ System; You were awesome), unique moves with effects specific to the mechanics of the world (Fling, Wide Slash, etceteraface)... Heck, there's nothing quite like using Gap Prober to launch a Leaf Storm through a row of enemies and allies and watch the enemies die and the allies emerge fine. Even nerfing the accuracy/power of room effect moves would do a lot. I mean, I'm pretty sure we all noticed how they changed the workings of speed boosts (ohai Agility) in GtI. It kept them usable without keeping them overpowered, that was fun.


I JUST WANT THE GAMEPLAY TO BE AS GOOD AS THE PLOT OKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY?? ;;

At very least the generous amount of stat boosting items does eventually let you bring your favorites up to par with stronger Pokemon. But yeah, the stat spreads are really random. It's pretty awkward to see most of the pseudo legendary Pokemon being really mediocre statwise, or Pokemon being good in completely different stats from what they are in the main games.

If there is one thing that really needs to be nerfed that's always been a balance issue in the series, though, it's multi-hitting attacks. They're the strongest moves in the game, yet there's always at least one starter who can get them early on and completely trivialize the game (Axew easily being the worst offender).

[Shuckle]

You know it wouldn't be an issue if Vacuum-Cut wasn't worthless in places not named Beach Cave and Zero Isle South. Wide Slash is pretty legit though.

I started with PMD2 like a fool and now I don't think I'm going to try out PMD1. It's just...really not worth it. The story isn't as good, the gameplay is a little bit worse, it does't have a few of the really interesting 'mon...ehhhhh. Super duper ehhh from over here.