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Old 10-01-2014, 11:20 AM   #3401
Emi
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The power of Damage Calcs

Now you might be wondering what I mean by this, but I'm posting this replay to highlight a tool that people don't use enough. It's using a damage calculator to determine what set a person has. What do I mean by this? Different sets have different numbers, this much is obvious. A Choice Specs set will be stronger than a Choice Scarf. Often times the difference is enough to be notable. But, I'm facing an opponent that I'm not sure how to effectively deal with. Nidoking. Knowing that he's likely going to hit the Ice Beam, since its far too risky not too, I switch in Azumarill, and take a paltry 8% damage. Now this may seem perfectly normal for a Water type with 100 / 80 bulk, quite a bit of investment, and an Assault Vest, but the damage made me wonder. It's almost...too small. Plus, my ability to check and counter Nidoking is reduced if I don't know its set. If its Life Orb, the Pokemon I have to use and the switches I have to make are different than if its Choice Scarf. I /suspect/ its Choice Scarf, but this time I decide not to go with my gut and see if I can determine which set it really has.

Quote:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Ice Beam vs. 16 HP / 240 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 38-45 (11 - 13%) -- possible 8HKO
Vindication. Now I know its not running Life Orb. So its very likely running Choice Scarf. It /could/ not be, it could be running Expert Belt, but there is absolutely no way I'm going to know that from this calc. Just to double check, I run the calcs with Choice Scarf:

Quote:
252 SpA Sheer Force Nidoking Ice Beam vs. 16 HP / 240 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 29-35 (8.4 - 10.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever
8.4%. Incredibly low end of the calcs. But by God it works. So there is a good chance of it running a Choice Scarf. Knowing this, later on in the match when its Bisharp versus Nidoking:

Quote:
252 SpA Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 180 HP / 236+ SpD Bisharp: 264-312 (83.5 - 98.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
I guess that I have a decent chance of getting a successful Knock Off. I have about a one in three chance to survive the Earth Power, and it could predict a switch into Latios and use Ice Beam, which might leave Latios in KO room for Dragonite's ESpeed. Knock Off happens and, what do you know, its a Choice Scarf. From there, its game.

All praise the damage calc.
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Old 10-01-2014, 11:51 AM   #3402
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Aww, how nice

It's always nice for someone you're battling to tell you you're good, as opposed to getting all bent that you beat them.
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Old 10-01-2014, 12:09 PM   #3403
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Yeah, in close games I always tell people that they kept me on my toes and they appreciate it for the most part.

But why do you need calcs to determine if its running life orb? Just wait for the 10% deduction and there's your Life Orb answer. I can understand between specs and scarf, but dont dawdle doing calcs to see if an item that has a clear visual effect is present. Theres no need.
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Old 10-01-2014, 12:15 PM   #3404
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You might need it if ever there was an ability which allowed you to not take LO damage somehow.. Maybe.. Oh well, we can dream, can't we?
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Old 10-01-2014, 12:17 PM   #3405
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Quote:
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You might need it if ever there was an ability which allowed you to not take LO damage somehow.. Maybe.. Oh well, we can dream, can't we?
Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but even if you are I don't trust Myles' ability to catch that or to understand, so here you (both?) go: Sheer Force Nidoking.
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Old 10-01-2014, 12:18 PM   #3406
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Don't worry, I was being sarcastic. :3
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Old 10-01-2014, 12:26 PM   #3407
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That side effect is something id regard as an oversight for Life Orb. It's not supposed to negate recoil in any way.

But the informational is appreciated.
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Old 10-01-2014, 12:33 PM   #3408
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Quote:
If (and only if) a move is boosted by the effect of Sheer Force, it will no longer trigger item or Ability effects that activate after attacking. This includes the effects of Eject Button, Shell Bell, and Red Card, as well as the Ability Color Change. If an item has two effects, only the effect(s) that activate after attacking will be negated. Therefore, if a Pokémon holds a Life Orb, it will gain the passive damage boost (because it is not activated after the attack) but the recoil effect afterward will be ignored.
Click the fucking links Myles I'm not going to say this again
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Old 10-01-2014, 12:40 PM   #3409
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I read it and I find it ironic after doing so. My word.
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Old 10-01-2014, 12:43 PM   #3410
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Myles I'm confused I honestly can't tell, after reading your response to Talon, whether or not you're agreeing with Sheer Force negating LO recoil (when used with a move that Sheer Force affects)
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:05 PM   #3411
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Originally Posted by Myles Fowl II View Post
That side effect is something id regard as an oversight for Life Orb. It's not supposed to negate recoil in any way.

But the informational is appreciated.
You could have found better phrasing. Like "Oh, I didn't know that Sheer Force negated Life Orb" instead of "Oh Sheer Force isn't supposed to affect Life Orb." One sounds like you learned something. The other sounds like an argument.
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:44 PM   #3412
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Yeah i was just rushed then. Better phrasing:

Whoops, had no idea. Im not sure whetger that was intentional as a Sheer Firce niche or if it was an oversight (though if I were GF id treat it as the latter).

I chuckled a bit that item shenanigans allows you to avoid recoil, which it technically shouldnt do, while gaining zany power boosts. You learn something new every day!
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Old 10-01-2014, 07:40 PM   #3413
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Close Encounters of the Sun Kind (OU, 31 Turns)

I made some really bad misplays lol
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Old 10-01-2014, 07:49 PM   #3414
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How to randbats: Set half the opposing team on fire.
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Old 10-02-2014, 04:53 PM   #3415
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Wherein I face off against the Coral Queen. (Random Battle, 34 turns)

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I thought this match was over -- for one or the other of us -- when it was at the part with Bisharp vs. Hawlucha. I'm amazed that we both walked out of that one without our respective cannon sweeping the other person's team. Dunno about Hawlucha, but the problem for Bisharp was that his movepool kinda sucked: Substitute, Swords Dance, Knock Off, and Sucker Punch are each great moves for any Bisharp to have, but the four all together leaves you with really poor offensive output. (Sucker Punch is too easily played against while Knock Off is not only slow but also weak after the opponent no longer has a hold item.)

Brutal. (Random Battle, 12 turns)

Last edited by Talon87; 10-03-2014 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 10-05-2014, 01:37 PM   #3416
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In which I play around a Pokemon who could have easily swept the rest of my team.

This is probably the first time I can actually say Dusknoir was really useful for me. It usually has so much problems in Randbats but in this case it had just the moveset I needed.
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:54 AM   #3417
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"Good! Now let's go to sleep." (VGC 2014, 7 turns)

A battle with a bizarre, disgruntled player named YourSmoker.

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After the first three turns, I have all but lost the match. But I get lucky: a clutch critical hit ensures that my opponent's Meowstic dies before he can do further damage to my team's chances for victory. "Crit," my opponent whines. It's so painfully obvious and his whining is so petulant that I reply with "1+1=2," as if to say, "Dude: you're telling me something as obvious as '1 plus 1 equals 2'."

It appears to go over his head, however, as all it does is prompt him to disparage my team. "You still have the average team," he says. I can't believe the insecurity on this guy and I let him know it. But before I can complete my thought, lo: a second critical hit! Once again it had been looking like I was to lose the match. And once again a crit saves my hide.

By all means, this was a game handed to me by the combination of two crits, without either of which I would have lost. And had my opponent been a nicer fellow, maybe I'd have said something to console him. But my opponent was a self-pitying douche, so no apology would have been forthcoming.

Before I can even manage to say something, however, my opponent declares: "Good!" And then he follows this up with: "Now lets [sic] go to sleep".

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ...
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Old 10-07-2014, 05:33 AM   #3418
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Pretty good match from both sides if you ask me.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:00 AM   #3419
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Wherein I get decimated. (VGC 2014, 6 turns)

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I've lost to plenty of people over the past half year I've been playing in the format. But battles like this one are pretty rare. This. guy. just. pwned me. >_<

Turn 1 goes off without a hitch for my side ... except for the part where his Talonflame uses a Turn 1 Protect that I simply did not see coming. I knew that he likely wouldn't Mega Evolve immediately, so I knew better than to use Thunderbolt. In fact, I expected him to bring in Politoed one way or another, making Hydro Pump the ideal choice. And it was! I just ... targeted a creature who ended up Protecting that turn.

At the top of Turn 2, I am feeling decently good. I know that many Politoed run Rain Dance just to catch enemy weather users off guard, but I decide to take the risk anyway and have Charizard immediately mega evolve to rid us of rain. And I decide to be even bolder and go for Solarbeam on the Politoed. Meanwhile, I assign Rotom-W to Hydro Pump duties again. I mean, what's the worst that can happen? He calls Talonflame back for Amoongus?

But Turn 2 starts and holy fucking shit:
  • He manually switches out Politoed for Manectric.
  • Talonflame uses U-Turn of all things. WHAT. I am caught completely off guard by this.
  • He brings back Politoed, re-establishing rain's presence.
  • I hit a Politoed for pitiful damage.
  • And I lock myself in to Solarbeam. Fuck.
I really should have forfeited right then and there. But I wanted to see how far I could take this. And so I pressed on!

Turn 3, I figure that he will likely call Politoed back for Talonflame; have Politoed Protect; or else have Politoed take the brunt of my Solarbeam attack but still fire back with a Water-type move. I decide the smartest play is to aim towards Manectric instead. My opponent totally calls this. And he has his Manectric use Protect. Worse still? I ordered Rotom-W to target the same slot, knowing that a non-STAB Solarbeam wouldn't likely OHKO Manectric. So I do zero damage this turn. And my opponent gets a free kill against Charizard. The score is now 3-4, but it may as well be 0-4 the way my opponent is toying with me.

Turn 4, I target Manectric's slot with Salamence. I figure he will either stay put (in which case I want to kill Manectric ASAP) or else he will switch out to Talonflame or whoever his fourth Pokémon is. Meanwhile I have Rotom-Wash go after Manectric too. Well, Salamence is able to hit Mega Manectric first. Score! But he only does 40% HP damage since he's been Intimidated by the newly-evolved Mega Manectric. :\ Meanwhile, my opponent has manually called back Politoed ... for Kingdra. I instantly regret that I did not target the Politoed slot. It's like my opponent is reading my every move given that he chose to switch in Kingdra like that despite the 50/50 risk of getting clobbered by my Salamence. Anyway, Manectric uses Volt Switch ... and right back out comes Politoed. Rotom-Wash hits it for pitiful damage ... and activates an Eject Button. Right back out comes Mega Manectric, and Salamence finds himself reduced to 50% of his original Attack stat. This is not good.

Turn 5 is sheer desperation. I expect a Dragon-type attack from Kingdra and switch out Salamence for Talonflame. Talonflame's no good to me against this team and I absolutely cannot have Salamence operating at half Attack. Too bad for me: Kingdra goes for Muddy Water instead. GET OUT OF MY HEAD, CHARLES! I lose everybody on the field and am reduced to just Salamence. It's as good as gg right then and there.

Final turn, Turn 6, I pitifully order a Dragon Claw and direct it towards Kingdra. It hits! OHKO! But not before Kingdra hits me with a Muddy Water ... and does 65.3% HP damage. O-o; I realize he has STAB and the rain is up, but still. I'm a dragon. What's going on here? Mega Manectric uses HP Ice for the easy win, 0-3, my loss.

My opponent turned out to be someone ranked in the 1500s, a score range I've yet to reach even for one minute. So I feel a little less bad about losing to him as I did. Still though. Still though. This was pretty awful.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:42 AM   #3420
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Wherein I get decimated. (VGC 2014, 6 turns)

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I've lost to plenty of people over the past half year I've been playing in the format. But battles like this one are pretty rare. This. guy. just. pwned me. >_<

Turn 1 goes off without a hitch for my side ... except for the part where his Talonflame uses a Turn 1 Protect that I simply did not see coming. I knew that he likely wouldn't Mega Evolve immediately, so I knew better than to use Thunderbolt. In fact, I expected him to bring in Politoed one way or another, making Hydro Pump the ideal choice. And it was! I just ... targeted a creature who ended up Protecting that turn.

At the top of Turn 2, I am feeling decently good. I know that many Politoed run Rain Dance just to catch enemy weather users off guard, but I decide to take the risk anyway and have Charizard immediately mega evolve to rid us of rain. And I decide to be even bolder and go for Solarbeam on the Politoed. Meanwhile, I assign Rotom-W to Hydro Pump duties again. I mean, what's the worst that can happen? He calls Talonflame back for Amoongus?

But Turn 2 starts and holy fucking shit:
  • He manually switches out Politoed for Manectric.
  • Talonflame uses U-Turn of all things. WHAT. I am caught completely off guard by this.
  • He brings back Politoed, re-establishing rain's presence.
  • I hit a Politoed for pitiful damage.
  • And I lock myself in to Solarbeam. Fuck.
I really should have forfeited right then and there. But I wanted to see how far I could take this. And so I pressed on!

Turn 3, I figure that he will likely call Politoed back for Talonflame; have Politoed Protect; or else have Politoed take the brunt of my Solarbeam attack but still fire back with a Water-type move. I decide the smartest play is to aim towards Manectric instead. My opponent totally calls this. And he has his Manectric use Protect. Worse still? I ordered Rotom-W to target the same slot, knowing that a non-STAB Solarbeam wouldn't likely OHKO Manectric. So I do zero damage this turn. And my opponent gets a free kill against Charizard. The score is now 3-4, but it may as well be 0-4 the way my opponent is toying with me.

Turn 4, I target Manectric's slot with Salamence. I figure he will either stay put (in which case I want to kill Manectric ASAP) or else he will switch out to Talonflame or whoever his fourth Pokémon is. Meanwhile I have Rotom-Wash go after Manectric too. Well, Salamence is able to hit Mega Manectric first. Score! But he only does 40% HP damage since he's been Intimidated by the newly-evolved Mega Manectric. :\ Meanwhile, my opponent has manually called back Politoed ... for Kingdra. I instantly regret that I did not target the Politoed slot. It's like my opponent is reading my every move given that he chose to switch in Kingdra like that despite the 50/50 risk of getting clobbered by my Salamence. Anyway, Manectric uses Volt Switch ... and right back out comes Politoed. Rotom-Wash hits it for pitiful damage ... and activates an Eject Button. Right back out comes Mega Manectric, and Salamence finds himself reduced to 50% of his original Attack stat. This is not good.

Turn 5 is sheer desperation. I expect a Dragon-type attack from Kingdra and switch out Salamence for Talonflame. Talonflame's no good to me against this team and I absolutely cannot have Salamence operating at half Attack. Too bad for me: Kingdra goes for Muddy Water instead. GET OUT OF MY HEAD, CHARLES! I lose everybody on the field and am reduced to just Salamence. It's as good as gg right then and there.

Final turn, Turn 6, I pitifully order a Dragon Claw and direct it towards Kingdra. It hits! OHKO! But not before Kingdra hits me with a Muddy Water ... and does 65.3% HP damage. O-o; I realize he has STAB and the rain is up, but still. I'm a dragon. What's going on here? Mega Manectric uses HP Ice for the easy win, 0-3, my loss.

My opponent turned out to be someone ranked in the 1500s, a score range I've yet to reach even for one minute. So I feel a little less bad about losing to him as I did. Still though. Still though. This was pretty awful.
Wow, that's an insane strategy that your opponent used. And obviously it proved effective and off-the-wall given by your reactions. I mean, I was surprised as well. Judging by how things happened, I guess that:

Spoiler: show
The Kingdra had Swift Swim as an ability, and had Choice Specs held, hence giving a stacking boost of 1.5 from Specs, 1.5 again from Rain, 1.25 from STAB. Maybe. So Salamence ate a 1.25x Muddy Water from Kingdra as a result, which sort of sucks, but shows how terrifying that thing can be.
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:22 AM   #3421
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I was impressed by the way your opponent managed the field. Even your replays, which aren't exactly bottom of the barrel, don't show the kind of skill and prediction that that guy displayed. Spectacular.

Really highlights Manectric's strengths, too.
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Old 10-07-2014, 01:54 PM   #3422
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Talon you lasted 3 times as long as I would have. Be proud.
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Old 10-07-2014, 02:00 PM   #3423
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Wherein my opponent feels so guilty about the hax he forfeits. O_o (VGC 2014, 6 turns)

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Turn 2, Will-o-Wisp misses. Crucial, crucial miss since not only did I need to halve Tyranitar's damage output but I also needed to not broadcast to my opponent what I was planning.

Turn 3, Hydro Pump misses. Had it hit, I'd have had the 2HKO on Tyranitar at least. Son of a bitch.

Turn 4, I just need Rotom-Wash to survive this next Rock Slide -- which the damage output says he should do, given previous turns -- and I'll be good! I have Gardevoir Protect, in comes Tyranitar's Rock Slide, and ... critical hit. Are you fucking kidding me.

So I complain. I apologize for complaining, but I've gotta vent. Because this is just stupid. I'm about to get wrecked 0-4 and it's all because of bullshit hax.

Turn 5, his Scarf Tyranitar outspeeds everybody. And of course hax wouldn't smile on me! Of course I wouldn't get a clutch Rock Slide miss right when I needed it! Oh no! He hits his marks fast and true and the score is 1-4 remaining.

So then Turn 6 comes and the unimaginable happens. "sorry a lot of hax," he says. "bye." And just like that, he forfeits and leaves. o.o

Now, I wasn't trying to shame this guy into forfeiting or anything. Hax happens. I may be complaining about it, but it happens to all of us. Sometimes we lose because of it, sometimes we win in spite of it, sometimes we win because of it, and sometimes we lose in spite of it. It works all ways. But apparently my opponent felt so bad about the outcome of the match that he handed me the win in apology. Um ... thanks. O-o ^^;
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Old 10-07-2014, 02:04 PM   #3424
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>tfw you try to sneak in one more battle before your next class, it stalls on a bit longer than you thought, and you eventually lose to timeout because you're trying to hide it from your teacher... with the score 6-3, in your favor
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Old 10-07-2014, 02:05 PM   #3425
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My only tip is dont think about whether Rock Slide will hit or not. Mind over matter is very strong in that move, and thinking about itwill probably bungle it.

Also, lets not get into another long statistics debate over it because I am joking about all my horrible experiences not stating absolute hard data. kthx.
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