UPNetwork  

Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > Entertainment

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-05-2014, 04:18 PM   #551
Concept
Archbishop of Banterbury
 
Concept's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Nipple-Hunting with Elsie and Kairne
Posts: 7,030
Send a message via Skype™ to Concept
Book 3 Episode 9:
Spoiler: show
So for starters, I said before I was worried they would fail to tie together the Earth Queen and Zaheer plots and I was wrong - they've done it very well. Presumably the Earth Queen, Unalaq and maybe Raiko are being set up as one side of the Red Lotus' argument, with Zuko, Tonraq and probably Tenzin representing the other. I'm also greatly enjoying how Zaheer and co are so human; previous villains have felt in many ways all powerful (both Amon and Unalaq had everything go flawlessly for them until the very last second, which is something that often annoys me with tv show antagonists). I like how the various factions - both good and evil - are all competent but none seem to have plot power. In any given contest I feel like any of the Earth Queen/Zaheer/Korra/Su Beifong/etc could come out on top.

Speaking of Su Beifong, calling her as tied to the Red Lotus. I had my suspicions before (her weird look when Aiwei was revealed, sending Korra and co off after Zaheer when it was clearly a stupid risk, etc) but her intervention in the abduction was enough to sway me into believing she was innocent. With the reveal of the Red Lotus' motives though, her line in her first episode about "why do we even have an Earth Queen anyway" is enough to tip the scales. I'm guessing the intervention in the abduction will be explained away by trying to keep her cover/realising Zaheer and co would not escape with the Avatar but could potentially escape without. Also interested to note that during the attempted kidnapping in episode 8, one of Su's guards firebended at Zaheer. Just cool to note that the city isn't bending-homogenous.

Side note; I really want Bolin to learn lavabending. It's really cool - kind of the earthbending equivalent of waterbenders icebending.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTerry
What can the harvest hope for, if not the care of the reaper man?

Last edited by Concept; 08-05-2014 at 04:33 PM.
Concept is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2014, 04:37 PM   #552
Red Panda
head head bitch
 
Red Panda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,490
>Reply to Concept

Spoiler: show
I'm right with you for Su. I really don't feel like she's totally on Korra's side, or if she's 100% "good". Something still seems off with her.

>Bolin and Lavabending

Yeah I really want this to happen as well. Like, Bolin is the one that keeps making comments about the lavabending, and he can't seem to get a grasp of metal bending, so it'd be a really cool alternative for him.
Red Panda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2014, 05:23 PM   #553
CyberBlastoise
Team Mother?
 
CyberBlastoise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 861
Spoiler: show

This whole plot is just setting up to be one big Shin Megami Tensei plot. Chaos vs Law and all that jazz. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

And I honestly don't really trust Su like Concept and Red, honestly, the whole thing with Aiwei really has me very suspicious of her right now, especially since he could have easily been lying for her as well as himself. Dunno now...but we'll see...
__________________

Fizzy Bubbles

PASBL
CyberBlastoise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2014, 11:58 AM   #554
Concept
Archbishop of Banterbury
 
Concept's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Nipple-Hunting with Elsie and Kairne
Posts: 7,030
Send a message via Skype™ to Concept
More thoughts on season 3 as of episode 9:

Spoiler: show
Several people noted they felt Lin and Su's argument resolution was poorly handled and I'm inclined to agree. But looking back, it was Aiwei who directed Lin to the acupuncturist and I don't trust Su any more either - so I'm hoping this will come back as a plot point and what we thought was simply poorly written conflict resolution will turn out to be something more sinister.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTerry
What can the harvest hope for, if not the care of the reaper man?
Concept is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2014, 09:07 PM   #555
Jerichi
プラスチック♡ラブ
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,766
General impressions as of Ep 9:
Spoiler: show
So the one thing that I've noticed is it seems that the showrunners kind of realized how much of a flop the plot of Book 2 was, enough so that they're almost downplaying the gravity of its events and cannibalizing its major points as plot dressing for this Book. Of course, in a lot of ways, this kind of retroactive writing can turn out bad, but I honestly think it's a good strategy. Book 2 was messily executed but the way they're transforming it in Book 3 makes it seem like it was all worth it. I've sort of thought from the very beginning that Book 2 was being turned into a set-up for a much more mature and complex plot in Book 3, and I'm beginning to see that those suspicions are true.
__________________


私のことを消して本気で愛さないで 恋なんてただのゲーム 楽しめばそれでいい
閉ざした心を飾る 派手なドレスも靴も 孤独の友達

asbwffb

[jerichi]
Jerichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2014, 11:08 PM   #556
Stealthy
A New and Original Person
 
Stealthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 949
General thoughts up to Ep. 9

Spoiler: show

I find it kindof interesting how the seemingly half baked arcs are nesting in each other. We started with Korra trying to deal with the direct aftermath of letting spirits into the physical world and their takeover of Republic City, then we move on to Korra hunting for new Airbenders, there's the tyranny of the Earth Queen, break off as Korra discovers Zaheer, and onto the Metal Clan and the conflict with Su. Su conflict is resolved... kinda, Zaheer and Korra fight and talk, and then now she's captured by the Earth Queen and we're back there.

Granted, Zaheer has been sprinkled throughout the entire season, but you get the point, and they all tie into Zaheer in some way as well. I'm with Concept that the odds are on Su being part of the Red Lotus or otherwise holding sympathies, and the Earth Queen as well as Raiko at the beginning of the season are arguments that set up their creed. Moreover, the resurgence of Airbenders as a positive consequence of Korra letting loose the spirits helps us forget and forgive the obvious inconveniences this is going to have on humanity as shown by Republic City's new swamp, and so we're more sympathetic towards the Red Lotus's arguments of what balance truly is, which entails the opening of the portals. Even Zaheer's charge that the White Lotus has become too active and open is something I can sympathize with. Seeing the White Lotus in these uniforms and acting as guards is pretty jarring given how it was originally a secret society of old sages... but I guess after you conquer Ba Sing Se it's kinda hard to keep that up.

It's actually kindof refreshing to have a villain in this universe with well-intentioned motives, or really anything besides greed and a desire for world domination. Unalaq? Conquer the world as a Dark Avatar. Varrick? The fact that he's manipulative and more low scale helped make him a better villain (not to mention the fact that he's flat out fun), but yeah, simple greed here. Tarlok and Amon were both simply trying to takeover Republic City... which was unfortunate because Amon as a cult leader was a lot more interesting. Earth Queen as well is a clear tyrant with ambitions to expand, and of course if we reach back to Aang and Roku we can see this in the Fire Lords and Zhao. Zuko's really the only one with real personal motivations, which is what made him such a great character, but he was really more of an anti-villain even in the beginning.

Of course, anarchism ain't the most original thing in the world, but at least it's something. Book 3's plot is really turned around from the mess that was most of Book 2, and while it still has things that irk me, the story being strong and the romance being out are excellent steps.
Stealthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2014, 12:19 AM   #557
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
This post has been long overdue. Wrote most of it up on my phone last week after watching the episode and then never posted it.

The Legend of Korra Book 3 Episode 09:

Spoiler: show
Okay, having read all of your guys' posts, I'm going to first address one thing, and THEN I'll provide my original post.

When it comes to Su Beifong ...

*inhale*

...

...

HAVE YOU ALL LOST YOUR MINDS!?

That is how I feel right now. Like I am the last sane man in an insane world. I was the one who originally called that Su was a villain. The moment we met her, back in Episode 05, I was like, "This woman ... I don't trust her. " But it didn't take much -- in fact, it only took Episode 06 -- to convince me that the writers did not intend to make Su either:
  1. the predictable villain I thought she was
  2. the less-predictable villain you all seem to think she is
Guys ... if Su ends up being a villain at this point in the story, I'll be surprised. I agree with you that it would make sense given the overall scenario. But I feel like you guys aren't taking the Legend of Korra writing staff's inclinations into consideration. Based on what I've seen in Episodes 06 and 08, I think it's fairly safe to say -- sad, but fairly safe to say -- that Su is nothing more than an incompetent would-be do-gooder.

The way the writers have written Su and Lin's relationship in Episodes 05, 06, and 08, they remind me of your mom (Lin) and your cool aunt who your mom doesn't seem to be too fond of (Su). The cool aunt had a wild hippie phase, has all these stories of adventure to share with you, etc etc, but she hasn't really grown up and deep down inside she's an insecure and vulnerable person. Your mom, meanwhile, seems stricter to you but it turns out that she has a better head on her shoulders and is trying to do what's best for you. Your aunt places more emphasis on liberation, on taking chances, on going wild. She was the one who smoked pot in college, whereas your mom has never touched drugs. She was the one who had multiple sexual partners, whereas your mom only ever had sex with your dad and dated only one or two men before him. That's the impression I'm getting from the writers at this point with Su Beifong: not that she's some secret member of the Order of the Red Lotus like over half of you are saying at this point, not that she's a villain in any capacity like even I was saying originally, but that she's ... how to put it ... that she's basically "Team Good Guys' Varrick."

Now, speaking of Varrick, don't think I haven't forgotten what I mentioned in Episode 05's write-up. I agree that the stars would seem to line up rather nicely, ignoring the writers' demonstrated habits and focusing solely on conventional plot points, if Su turned out to be a villain. After all ...
  • her seditionist views
  • the fact that she's housing Varrick, a wanted man -- and wanted by her own sister, no less!
  • the fact that she was a bad seed as a child
  • the fact that she decided to go become a pirate (iff we treat pirates like they really are and not as the friendly clowns of the sea they are in cartoon worlds like LoZ: the Wind Waker and similar)
  • the fact that her city seems like it's been designed to be an impenetrable fortress even though she's built it in the heartland of a kingdom at peace
I haven't forgotten my early conspiracy theory about Su keeping Toph prisoner deep in the belly of the City of Metal. But the thing is, Episodes 06 and 08 have not given us much of any support for this "SU IS EVIL! O_O" theory you guys keep repeating.

For starters, your guys' theorizing that Su is a member of the Order of the Red Lotus. For this to be true, you'd have to answer ...
  • why she thwarted Zaheer's efforts to get Korra out of the city
  • why she didn't better equip him to escape once he'd found his mark
  • why she didn't just drug Korra herself. Why make Zaheer use poison darts when you can just poison her food or her bedroom's air?
  • why she didn't drug Lin and the others
  • why she didn't betray Lin in the heat of the moment where the two have rappelled down by cables to try and defeat Zaheer and the other Red Lotus members
  • why she didn't put up much of a fight when her daughter Opal decided to go and join a commune led by a member of the Order of the White Lotus (Tenzin)
Some of these you can answer more easily than others. None of them I'm asking you to literally answer; they're all rhetorical questions, but ones meant to illustrate the fact that Su, were she a member of the Order of the Red Lotus, would be a rather imperfect one.

Do I think Su is 100% out of the woods yet? No. But what I imagine her role in the story is going to prove to ultimately be isn't "Villain A (Su) vs. Villain B (Earth Queen)" like I first imagined it would be. Instead, I think Su's role is going to be "Person Korra Likes A (Su) vs. Person Korra Likes B (Lin)", where Su is going to be entreating Korra to help her take out the Earth Queen while Lin is going to be like, "You have no business/right doing that. Even if the Earth Queen is a terrible person -.-" and Korra is going to be caught in between wanting to depose the Earth Queen (i.e. helping Su out) and yet knowing what Lin says is also correct. Something like that. That's where I see this heading. So in that sense, might Su wind up an antagonist? Oh, absolutely. But do I think she's going to be revealed to be a member of the Order of the Red Lotus? No. Or do I think she's going to be revealed to be evil evil? No.

I mean, we'll see. I welcome being proven wrong. A, it will vindicate Past Talon's feelings as of the end of Episode 05. And B, it will mean that Present Talon gets to be surprised by the writers. Because as of right now, I don't think Su Beifong is what you all have made her out to be. I think the potential was there as of Episode 05 ... but was more or less done away with by 06 and 08. Given the writers' habits, as evidenced by Seasons 1 and 2.

Okay. @_@ Now for my actual thoughts on Episode 09 ...

Spoiler: show
Very entertaining episode. Suffered for a few childish hiccups in the first half -- Jackass Bolin comes pretty close to matching Jackass Tenzin in the annoyance factor -- but the second half really picked things up.

My biggest complaint is that the writers didn't go for the delightful "Surprise! He's on our side!" plot twist with Zaheer, instead opting for the "He's still a villain but he wants you to join his side, not kill you" plot twist. Both are cliché, but I'm more partial to the first one, I guess.

It was nice to see pai sho again. Though the game board and pieces looked smaller than they did in A:tLA. Travel set, maybe?

I thought the scene taking the piss out of unintentionally creepy fans at conventions was arguably in poor taste but nonetheless funny.

Zaheer contacted Aiwei by written letter. Then he asked to meet in the Spirit World where, because they entered via meditation and not via the portals at the North or South Poles, neither of them can do any bending. These facts show that Zaheer didn't want Aiwei to use his truthseeing against him. Pretty clever in-universe of Zaheer but even more clever out-of-universe of the writers.

Zaheer tossing Aiwei into the pit with all the lost souls was a pretty evil thing to do. So much for Zaheer being good. :\

The Earth Queen subplot is finally revisited. See? I told you guys it would happen. (Talon note: I wrote this comment last Saturday. ^^; )

I liked how there were bounties out for each of them, including Korra.

lol @ how Korra still doesn't get it when she claims that the Earth Queen has no right to conscript subjects. We may not like it, but as a monarch she pretty much does have that right.

Interesting to see a desert town. Feels like we don't see them too often in this world, and usually they feel more like the American southwest than a Middle Eastern oasis town like this one felt. (It was probably the palm trees.)

=Post Notes End Here=

Sorry. ^^; That was all I wrote on the phone last week before getting distracted and then ... never finishing the post nor posting it. Whoops. A few more additions that I can think of, though ...

I enjoyed the fight between Bolin, Zuko, Water Tentacles, and Magma Man. I especially liked that the writers had Bolin do the instinctive thing -- diving into the pool of water to thwart the magmabender -- even though a calmer mind would recognize how suicidal it was to do that in the vicinity of the tentacle lady. There was one thing I didn't like about this fight, though, and that was the fact that when the woman grabbed hold of Mako's arm and then got right up in his face, instead of killing him (e.g. generating icicles and impaling him) her thought was to swing him about and have him crash into the building next door. Uhhhhh ... *sigh* Kids shows.

I disliked the Unalaq tie-in with the Order of the Red Lotus. It felt very forced, very "and this is how Book 3 ties in to Book 2! "-ey. Unnecessary, guys! -_-; The Red Lotus was a lot cooler before you got it entrenched with Vaatu and Unalaq.

I'm waiting for the conversation where Guru Laheema (or however you spell it) is revealed to be an ex-monk who was excommunicated for his radical beliefs. Zaheer keeps speaking about him as though he's this great sage. And I think we're inclined to give Zaheer the platform that Laheema was a virtuous man of noble heart: because we've never known an airbender who wasn't. But remember: Zaheer found that one artifact of Laheema's in Tenzin's study where no one else was allowed. It makes me wonder if Laheema was like this franchise's equivalent of a Sith Lord. Guess only time will tell!

If I remember other things to discuss, I'll be sure to mention them.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 01:39 PM   #558
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
The Legend of Korra Book 3 Episode 10:

Spoiler: show
Well shit. That sure was something.

+10 for finally seeing someone use airbending to suffocate someone. Pretty dark application, but I've always known it could be. The moment they introduced the idea of bloodbending, I've wondered when we might get to see airbending used to asphyxiate people. I guess the reason it took so long to show up is that it boils down to the whole "Jedi vs. Sith" dilemma that pervades some of the bending in this universe. For example, how bloodbending has been portrayed as something that only a "Sith" would partake in. I guess that using airbending to asphyxiate someone is seen as crossing a line, especially by the clearly-Buddhist-inspired Air Nomads. So we needed an evil Airbender to show before we'd get to see asphyxiation. And in Zaheer we finally got to see that.

I'm less certain how I feel about the Earth Queen's early demise. Part of me wants to give it a +5 for the surprise factor of occurring this soon, for the drama it generates, so on and so forth. But part of me wonders if it's almost ... squandering the drama, in a sense. Would things have been more exciting with a protracted war of ideals between the Earth Queen and the separatists? Would it have been better for the Earth Queen and the Red Lotus to have stretched on into Season 4, as many were speculating they might? Because the way things are going, it's looking like it won't be long now before both the Earth Queen and Zaheer and his cronies are dealt with. The Earth Queen's already been dealt with. We've got two to three episodes now to deal with Zaheer. Seems like plenty of time, particularly the way this team of writers tends to operate.

I really liked Mako's constant attempts to try and get Bolin to metalbend because we didn't get the picturesque happy ending. Instead we got the sad, frustrating reality that happens to so many of us in life when we find ourselves in Bolin's shoes. "I know you can do it! " says someone to you, trying to be supportive. And you try and you try ... and you just can't do it. And you fail. The window of opportunity passes, and you have failed. It sucks and it's sad and it's frustrating and everything, but like ... that's life. That's part of what it means to be an imperfect person. Sometimes you can get better at something when you really try, and sometimes there are things in life you just can't do no matter how hard you try, no matter how badly you might want them to happen. Now, do I think that Bolin is going to remain unable to metalbend forever? Hell no. This is the LoK writing team we're talking here. They gave us airbending Bumi, remember? There is no way that these happily-ever-after lovers are going to leave Bolin without metalbending. I expect he'll finally pull it off some time in the next two (or three, if this is a thirteener) episodes. But for the time being, judging the Mako & Bolin scenes in Episode 10 for what they were on their own, I quite liked them.

Zaheer's means of entering the palace ... he's a pretty badass airbender and martial artist. Ugh, it's such a shame that he's a villain! -.- Oh well. ^^;

I really quite liked the "Two out of three. Not bad, kid " response the writers had the magmabender give Bolin on the van. Very playful way of teasing that he and the waterbender have feelings for one another. Without actually confirming anything, the writers leave fans to squee and wonder.

You weren't the only one who had the shit scared out of her by Naga, Lin. ^^; Man.

For some reason, Zuko's voice actor this week reminded me of David Warner. Looking up who it is that voices Zuko, I'm reminded that it's Bruce Davison. Yes, yes ... I can see that now. I guess he and Warner sound similar to me.

Foisting a new mode of government on a people not prepared for it and, from what we could see, not even really fighting very hard for it ... this does not promise to go well. ^^; I suppose that this may be the focus of Book 4. Because the end of Book 3 is probably only going to have time to focus on Korra dealing with the Order of the Red Lotus. I'm guessing that Book 4 will probably further explore the evolution of the young Air Nation while at the same time exploring the changes taking place in the Earth Kingdom Nation. What role will Su play in this? Lin? Toph? Varrick? Zuko? And of course Korra? We'll just have to wait and see, I guess.

I like that Zaheer isn't comic book evil where he wants to harm or kill anyone in his way. The scene with the radio control guy demonstrates that Zaheer genuinely believes he is doing right by the people, that he has their best interests at heart and that he sincerely believes the course he is taking is the best means to achieve a better tomorrow for the common man.

I liked the girl power this week. This is girl power done right. I wrote this time last year in the Attack on Titan thread about girl power done wrong (in the form of Mikasa Ackerman). Well, Legend of Korra did it right this week with both Korra and Asami. It wasn't obnoxious. It wasn't in your face. It was just two characters kicking ass pretty well, coming up with great ideas, etc. ... people being strong, intelligent, courageous ... and oh by the way did you notice they're both girls? :o 'Cause we didn't. And did you notice that they didn't get any help from their usual boy friends? Because we didn't oh who am I fooling of course we did. XD The writers do plant the seed in viewers' minds early on, though, with Korra's kind of obvious, "I wonder when Mako and Bolin will come to rescue us! " princess-in-the-tower comment. But aside from that, the execution was tactful and not obnoxious. I liked it.

That stated, I disliked Korra. As usual. The way she got angry with the crew acting like it was her fault for downing them in the desert when ... yeah, it was pretty much her fault. And the way she got defensive when they complained about the spirit in the desert approaching them -- "What? Next are you going to say that that's my fault too!? " -- it's like ... yeah, girl. It pretty much is your fault. Take some responsibility for your actions, for a change, and at the same time quit being so quick to feel judged and criticized by others. No one was getting shitty with you in the desert, but you kept getting hyper-defensive about things. And instead of politely allowing the captain to serve as the leader of the group, you took charge and -- ohmygosh -- started dishing out orders to not only his crew but to the captain himself. Disrespectful much? You're the Avatar, not God. The least you could do is co-lead.

Another thing I disliked about the episode was the fact that the airship was piloted by only four men: a captain, a helmsman, an engineer, and a swabbie assigned to keep watch over the prisoners. Seriously? An airship that large and you expect me to believe that it could be managed by just four men? That's a touch unbelievable. Even with 21st-century amenities, I don't think most vessels in the American navy are manned by fewer than eight men. Maybe a patrolboat, sure , but not a dreadnaught or a dreadnaught-sized airship. Whatever. It was clearly done since the writers had the whole "getting out of here via sandsailing" plot in mind and that wouldn't have worked if Korra had to lead 50+ people out of the desert. But meh. Still didn't care for it.

I feel like this episode covered a lot of ground in surprisingly little time. We'll have to see whether the final few episodes are as exciting as this one was. Until then!
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 06:12 PM   #559
Jerichi
プラスチック♡ラブ
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,766
Book 3, Ep 10:
Spoiler: show
WOW I did not expect Zahir to assassinate the Earth Queen. And with Airbending... wow!

Shit's gettin' real for once. This is the kind of political unrest and social disruption I was expecting from Book 1 - better late than never, I suppose. Also nice to see the world players all finally getting relevant showtime, especially Zuko. My hopes continue to be high for the rest of the season.
__________________


私のことを消して本気で愛さないで 恋なんてただのゲーム 楽しめばそれでいい
閉ざした心を飾る 派手なドレスも靴も 孤独の友達

asbwffb

[jerichi]
Jerichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 08:26 PM   #560
Emp
Volcano Badge
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,143
Season 3 Episode 10

Spoiler: show
Wow. That was probably the most surprising moment for me in the entire Avatar series. Sometimes you have to take a step back and remind yourself this is a cartoon on Nickelodeon. In Avatar they were very ambiguous with Jet’s death and never confirmed that he died – and they couldn’t even kill off the Firelord so had to create energybending. In Korra they hinted to Tarrloq and Amon’s death but never actually showed it on screen, Unavaatu wasn’t human technically speaking so it’s not as explicit.

This was an on-screen murder complete with asphyxiating sound effects, bulging eyes and the terrifying animation of the air being sucked out of someone’s lungs. Although the Earth Queen was established as a villain she hadn’t done enough to justify that death. She was played to comedy most of the time, certainly no Azula. Not to mention the death that was played to us on screen just seemed so graphic to me. Maybe I have a fear of suffocating or something but to me they may as well have shown Zaheer strangle the woman with his bare hands. Surely the FCC would have something to say if this was still on TV

I guess it crossed my mind when I read the title “Long Live the Queen” but boy am I shocked! This and the previous episode are my favourite episodes of the season thus far, and probably my favourite episodes of the series sans for a few standout eps in season 1. I really can’t wait for next week’s to air now!
__________________


FB PASBL TL 4

26-4-0 KO74 TP208
B Ref SP 2

Emp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 12:37 AM   #561
jolteonjak
Volcano Badge
 
jolteonjak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki View Post
Crazy news: After episode 8, all the remaining episodes will be only released digitally.

Nick will not air it on their TV broadcast. The shows creators say the show has not been cancelled and season 4 is already in preproduction.

Oh! I wondered what was up! Guess I better fix my sound problem soon.
jolteonjak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2014, 01:57 AM   #562
dirkac
uhhhhh
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: home
Posts: 1,386
Spoiler: show
Guess Zaheer really took the EQ's breath away, huh?


... Very, very bad jokes aside, that was just... Wow. Just. Wow. Never would have expected that on AtloK, or, well, any Nick channel. Heck, any child-demographised cartoon.

I'm glad to see that Airbending finally isn't just "fueled by happy" but actually used for purposes other than helping another (Yang-Chen aside, which wasn't shown). Though, I guess that would be hard considering the fact that Zaheer is the first evil Air Bender.

Speaking of Zaheer, I have to admit he really seems to, I don't know, have good intentions. I know it was established prior, but the way he handled the latter radio post, and the people, and all that, right after assassinating the Earth Queen just was so much different than when he was just, well, talking. Guess it always is like that.

Oh, and, about the Earth Queen. I have to admit that she did not deserve that. Both from an in-universe perpective, and viewer. From in-universe, I get it. She was established a villain. She did bad stuff. But seriously, though, outright murdering her? Based on how much of a joke she was treated as by the writers, and how little she has actually done to deserve (imprisoning Air Benders. Okay, bad. Allegedly eating Bosco. Not even confirmed, but if it was, then it would be somewhat disturbing. Disliking animals. Not bad at all. So what allowed her death in form of retribution?), this just seemed too much, really. From viewer, I had really anticipated the Red Lotus to be an over-arching Book 3/4 plot, with Earth Queen's political prowess and outbreak as Season Finale, which, really seems to me to be a better wrap-up than just "nope, she's dead ".

Still, those gripes aside, we have three Episodes to go, and overall, this was a very, very solid episode. Probably one of my favourite ones, too.
dirkac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2014, 09:58 AM   #563
Loki
The Path of Now & Forever
 
Loki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,304
Finally saw Episode 10 myself.

Spoiler: show
A pretty good episode! It's nice to see Zaheer isn't the typical "And now I will enact my nefarious plot to take over the world!" but rather he's a charismatic and intelligent anarchist. Like Jeri, this feels like what should have happened in Book 1 with Amon except now it's larger than Republic City.

I think starting the Red Lotus revolution in Ba Sing Se was probably the smartest location. Seeing the literal barriers between the rich and the poor, the corruption of absolute power, it was easily the best first target.

I do kind of wish they had Zaheer as a more public leader of the revolution rather than keep himself anonymous. I don't know if he stayed anonymous as a sign of (false?) humility to the people of Ba Sing Se or if he actually didn't care about it. Maybe his own hatred of rulers had him not want to become a leader himself, but he's already leader of the Red Lotus...
Loki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 03:03 AM   #564
dirkac
uhhhhh
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: home
Posts: 1,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki View Post
Spoiler: show
but he's already leader of the Red Lotus...
Spoiler: show
As far as I'm aware, he's not. The leader is still the same pwrson as the one who founded it, though I doubt he's still alive. No real info on who's the leader, and iiec it's implied the RL is leaderless.

Last edited by Loki; 08-15-2014 at 05:32 PM.
dirkac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 03:52 PM   #565
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
The Legend of Korra Book 3 Episode 11:

Spoiler: show
So I see they busted out the B team for this week's episode. *sigh*

Where do I even begin ...
  • Stupid Bolin humor
  • other characters saying stupid-humor things too, like Bolin's grandmother (constantly)
  • Bolin figuring out how to pilot an airship in under a minute; and Mako figuring out how to do it in under two seconds
  • the airship magically having enough fuel to accomplish everything the boys needed it for
  • Lin and the others still being at the oasis when Bolin and Mako arrived
  • Suddenly Zaheer wants to exterminate the Air Nation? Did I miss this last week or something?
  • another Uncle Iroh cameo
    • and it wouldn't be a horribad Legend of Korra Uncle Iroh cameo without a forced reference to tea, now would it?
  • Zuko not knowing his uncle's fate until now; and the flipside of this being that no one thought to tell him before now, not even Korra (what the fuck!?)
  • Meelo
  • Aunt Kaya inexplicably at the Northern Air Temple even though a) she's not an airbender, b) someone needs to hold down the fort at Air Temple Island, and c) we were never shown that she made the trip nor given any inkling as to why she would want to do it. Nope! The plot necessitates her presence, so she's here!
  • Zaheer holding his own in a 1v1 fight against Tenzin even though Tenzin has been practicing airbending daily for the past 30+ years
  • Bumi holding his own against the magmabender; same complaint as above, just with the hero-villain roles swapped around
  • Combustion Woman having the world's worst aim whenever it suits the plot, at other times having excellent aim
  • Kai is "killed" and then brought back in incredibly predictable fashion
This is just the short list, the list of things that immediately come to mind only two to three minutes after beginning to type them out. This isn't even the "Let me go back through the episode with a fine-tooth comb and pick out all of the things that made me groan or facepalm" list. So yeah. The B team was strong with this script. *sigh*

Thankfully, not even the B team could ruin the final third of the episode. While the first two-thirds were pretty atrocious, the final third -- basically from the moment Zaheer arrives at the Northern Air Temple on forward -- was exciting, emotional, and just plain entertaining to watch. Any complaints with this part of the episode aside, I enjoyed getting to see Tenzin finally kick some ass (it's been a while), I enjoyed getting to see Bumi kick some ass (even if it was played largely for comic relief *sigh*), and it was exciting to watch the various fights unfold without knowing whether people would live or die. There were a number of instances where I thought that Kaya just might either get skewered by an icicle or else lose a limb to an ice-scythe. And let's not forget the omnipresent worry that Zaheer might attempt to murder Tenzin the way he murdered the Earth Queen, especially once it became 3-against-1 and the others could've pinned Tenzin's arms and kept him from countering Zaheer.

I don't even remember Zaheer telling the boys last week that his message for Korra was that he wanted to eradicate the Air Nation and/or that he would do this if she didn't comply with his demands. I really wish that this would have been explored more. Why does he want to do this? Does he hope to become the world's sole airbender? If so, does that mean he plans to kill Korra after all? So many questions raised by a plot development which seemingly came out of nowhere.

I didn't list it above, but the part where Zuko declines to accompany Korra to the Northern Air Temple ... yeaaaaaaaah. Part of me really quite liked that the writers did this, because it felt "more real" to me somehow, less "cartoonish" / "ideal" / "canned". But part of me disliked it because it made Zuko seem somewhat cold, selfish, and (arguably) cowardly. He's racing back to the Fire Nation to protect his own daughter in case Zaheer and the others strike there next ... which means he's assuming that Tenzin will fall. Which means that he's willing to let his best friend's son die because he'd rather go protect his own daughter first even though no one's made a move on her life yet. Why wouldn't Zuko instead radio in to the Fire Nation and have them deploy some of their special forces posthaste? "Meet me at the Northern Air Temple! ON THE DOUBLE!" Why wouldn't the best way to protect his own daughter -- and Aang's son at the same time -- be to take Zaheer & Co. out ASAP? I dunno. Maybe it makes better sense in the writers' heads, but the way it's portrayed, it's in this uncomfortable zone between good writing and horrifying character development. As a result, I can't tell whether I like it or hate it.

This episode sadly felt really rushed, but happily it also felt like a grand season finale-esque episode. It wasn't all bad, but boy if it wasn't the strongest writing we've seen out of this team either. After the compliments the writers earned from me last week, I'm disappointed to have to dish out so much criticism for this week's.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 05:34 PM   #566
Concept
Archbishop of Banterbury
 
Concept's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Nipple-Hunting with Elsie and Kairne
Posts: 7,030
Send a message via Skype™ to Concept
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Spoiler: show
[*]Zaheer holding his own in a 1v1 fight against Tenzin even though Tenzin has been practicing airbending daily for the past 30+ years[*]Bumi holding his own against the magmabender; same complaint as above, just with the hero-villain roles swapped around
Spoiler: show
Agree with most of your other comments, but feel this one is a little unfair. Zaheer was basically retreating the whole time he was fighting Tenzin and didn't land a single blow but took several air blasts to the face; similarly Bumi is just bouncing around away from various lava pockets, and the moment he stands still for a brief period he takes a rock pillar. Both fights were clearly onesided in the way they should've been - and both Bumi and Zaheer can be assumed to have had some combat experience prior to becoming benders, so it's not unreasonable that they were onesided but not a curbstomp.

As for eradicating the Air Nation, I don't think it was something Zaheer actually particularly cared about so much as a threat he felt would force Korra to capitulate, although there is the possibility it's part of his back-up plan (see final paragraph). He seemed pretty happy to keep them as living prisoners until Tenzin insisted on fighting back. Combustion woman could simply have been trying (and succeeding, until Kai's eyerollingly bad intervention) to keep the rest of them from leaving.

Actually a little worried about Tenzin now - whilst I doubt the writers will kill him off, I'm curious to see what excuse they'll come up with for Zaheer not eliminating the leader of the Air Nation. When given the opportunity.

Speculation time! I think the Red Lotus is seeking to end the Avatar line altogether. We know from The Last Airbender that if the Avatar is killed they re-incarnate, but if killed whilst in the Avatar state, that's it. Game over, no more Avatar. After all, the Avatar is essentially the ultimate leadership figure, and that's what they're trying to destroy. Explains why they've not killed her yet when they had the opportunity. If they'd killed her normally, they'd have to go hunting for the new Earth Kingdom Avatar. If Zaheer can kill Korra in the Avatar state, great - and if not, the elimination of the Air Nation he threatened in this episode would perhaps cut short the Avatar line once it'd cycled through Earth and Fire again.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTerry
What can the harvest hope for, if not the care of the reaper man?

Last edited by Concept; 08-15-2014 at 05:47 PM.
Concept is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 06:39 PM   #567
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Replies. Episode 11 spoilers, obviously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Concept View Post
Spoiler: show
Agree with most of your other comments, but feel this one is a little unfair. Zaheer was basically retreating the whole time he was fighting Tenzin and didn't land a single blow but took several air blasts to the face; similarly Bumi is just bouncing around away from various lava pockets, and the moment he stands still for a brief period he takes a rock pillar. Both fights were clearly onesided in the way they should've been - and both Bumi and Zaheer can be assumed to have had some combat experience prior to becoming benders, so it's not unreasonable that they were onesided but not a curbstomp.
Spoiler: show
No, I definitely agree that Bumi was portrayed as fleeing most of the time. Resorting to the desperate measures of a man who doesn't know how to fight, e.g. biting the magmabender's shoulder (smart! effective! but very desperate and unskilled). Using what little airbending he knew how to do to essentially give him an extra ten to fifteen feet whenever he'd push off from a wall or pillar. I agree with you less on the Tenzin vs. Zaheer point, but my views may be subject to change. (See final second-to-last paragraph of this spoiler box.)

What I had been trying to say with the Bumi fight is, I felt that Bumi should've been wiped out way sooner than he was. Like, you're a magmabender who can pretty quickly (mere seconds) turn any floor to lava. Doing what the Dai Li does and creating stone handcuffs should be a cakewalk for an earthbender of your caliber. So why don't you do that? When you get Bumi on top of some surface you've been trying to corner him towards (which the magmabender *does* manage several times during the fight), why don't you generate some stone shackles around his ankles then and there? Fight over. I love Bumi, don't get me wrong, but the fact that he held out as long as he did against the magmabender stretched the limits of my disbelief.

What I had been trying to say with the Zaheer vs. Tenzin fight is, I felt like Tenzin should've been able to overpower Zaheer a lot more than he did. If you go back through this thread, you'll find that I was one of the first people (maybe even the first) to talk about how Zaheer must already have immense martial prowess given that he was imprisoned in a maximum security, solitary confinement cel on top of a mountain despite his inability to bend any of the four elements. I've written in multiple posts about how such a man, when combined with the new gift of airbending, should be amazing. So like, that's not my complaint. I have no complaint about Zaheer being able to Bruce Lee it up against almost any other adversary. The complaint is specific to Tenzin, as Tenzin is the only airbender we have in The Legend of Korra with over a decade of experience. You saw it with Aang in the original series: his gift of being able to blow foot soldiers off their feet. This was done by a child of 10 who was also an extreme pacifist and who recognized he was fighting grunts. In Tenzin's case, he's a man in his forties (so give him triple if not quadruple A:tLA Aang's experience in years). In Tenzin's case, he's fighting the equivalent of a Long Feng or an Ozai, not some generic grunt who works 9-5 for a paycheck. So like ... what I wanted to see was a lot more of A and a lot less of B, B being what we got instead:
  1. "Let me show you what a real Airbender can do. " *MWAHAHA FUCKING EPIC AIRBENDING FIGHT YES PLEASE*
  2. "I will do everything you do, but I will do it with 1.3x power and 1.1x finesse. I will keep knocking you back/down, but you will keep getting up and posing a significant challenge to me. I will not be able to school you the way I could school my own children."
The thing is, though, the more I think about it, the more I realize that what the writers gave us with the Tenzin vs. Zaheer fight was probably the best they could manage given the previously established canon. Like, it's already a fact that Zaheer, without bending, was such a menace that they were barely able to get him behind bars. So one has to imagine that even back in the day he would've posed a real challenge for Tenzin, for Zuko, for any bending master in a 1-on-1 fight. Thus, for Zaheer to be able to do even as well as he did manage against Tenzin ... I suppose the writers had no other choice.

I dunno. I guess I just wanted Tenzin to be a little more ... not flashy, but I guess a little more ... oomph-ey. I would've liked Revenge of the Sith Anakin vs. Obi-Wan, and I feel like instead what we got was just another generic fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Concept View Post
Spoiler: show
Speculation time! I think the Red Lotus is seeking to end the Avatar line altogether. We know from The Last Airbender that if the Avatar is killed they re-incarnate, but if killed whilst in the Avatar state, that's it. Game over, no more Avatar. After all, the Avatar is essentially the ultimate leadership figure, and that's what they're trying to destroy. Explains why they've not killed her yet when they had the opportunity. If they'd killed her normally, they'd have to go hunting for the new Earth Kingdom Avatar. If Zaheer can kill Korra in the Avatar state, great - and if not, the elimination of the Air Nation he threatened in this episode would perhaps cut short the Avatar line once it'd cycled through Earth and Fire again.
Spoiler: show
Oh, I like this. :o I like this a lot. Good on you being so clever and thinking this up. Yes, this is a pretty solid plot twist. Not so out in left field that it'd feel frustrating to be delivered it, but not so obvious either that everyone's gonna guess it. I've honestly thought that Zaheer wanted Korra around for the entire purging of the planet's world leaders and then he'd off her ... but the idea that he's actually trying to get her to enter into the Avatar state, such that he can then kill her ... that's a nice, tidy little plot twist. It allows the writers to have Zaheer show his true colors in the final episode of Book 3 (i.e. long before the series finale a year from now) and it allows for him to then be written out of the story once Korra defeats him.

In responding to you, I had a realization of my own. Kinda surprised no one's mentioned it before now, although maybe some of you have privately thought it:

Spoiler: show
I wonder if this plot was set up to culminate in Korra using energybending. Granted, she hasn't learned how to energybend yet. And granted, she's lost her connection with all of her past lives. But she did learn how to "spiritbend" using water in Book 2, so she should have personal access to that information. I wonder if energybending is just a hop, skip, and a jump away from that. Who knows. In any event, what I'm wondering if we'll see is, Korra uses energybending to take away Zaheer's bending powers. As well as the bending powers of his allies.

Think of it this way: when Ozai was imprisoned, he had been debent and thus posed an insignificant flight risk. When Azula was imprisoned, she'd lost her mind. (She may have also been energybent off camera, who knows.) But when Zaheer and his buddies were imprisoned, it was shortly after Korra's birth, a.k.a. shortly after the one man in the world who could energybend had passed away. I imagine that Zaheer & Co. are prime candidates for having their bending taken away from them but that no one has managed to figure out how to energybend. Not since Avatar Aang's passing, anyway. But if Korra learns how, then she can neutralize the threat that Zaheer & Co. pose to society. After all, Zaheer had been successfully imprisoned for thirteen to fourteen years on top of that mountain until he learned how to airbend. Without the ability to bend, it's entirely feasible that Zaheer could be sent back to that mountaintop and that his three friends could be kept imprisoned in less harsh conditions than the ones they'd previously had to suffer.

Do I personally want to see energybending come back? Not really. But that's not to say that I do not want to see it come back either. I have no preference either way. It can come back, it can stay gone. Either way is fine. The original concept admittedly felt like a deus ex machina copout at the end of Book 3 of A:tLA, but it's also a part of the series canon and I know a lot of fans really love it. And since I don't hate it, I don't mind seeing it return either, especially not if it's somewhere like here where it really suits the plot.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 06:11 AM   #568
Emp
Volcano Badge
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,143
S3E11

Spoiler: show
This episode got off to a slow start and I wasn't a fan of the Iroh shoehorn but the final act was superb. I think this is some of the best bending we’ve seen in the entire Avatar franchise. I kept thinking how much I would’ve loved the Bumi and Kya fight scenes even more if it had been an adult Katara fighting off the no arms woman and Sokka running for his life from the lava and adopting unconventional fighting methods. I think that’s the only negative I have about this fight scene: I really don’t have any love for Tenzin’s siblings.

Tenzin on the other hand has fast become one of my favourite characters in the series and Zaheer is hands down my favourite villain - so I was super excited when they decided to pit them against each other in the first Airbender battle we’ve seen. The animation during this fight was amazing, especially the slow motion scenes. I also think plot-wise this was the perfect outcome. I’m glad they showed Tenzin would have been capable of taking down Zaheer if he didn’t have his back up. They had to have Tenzin lose so the plot could move forward and Korra could ultimately save the day – so I think this was the best possible way to facilitate that.

Tenzin vs. Zaheer

Talon I find it strange you feel the way you do about the fight because I got the complete opposite vibe. The whole match Tenzin wasn’t hit once and managed to hit Zaheer three times. I was pleasantly surprised by this because I don’t think we’ve had a chance to see what an amazing bender Tenzin is until now. I’m pretty sure he’s always been curbstomped by the villain, leaving Korra to save the day. I was expecting it to play out with Zaheer beating Tenzin singlehandedly so they could set him up as a real threat for the next few episodes.

Zaheer is portrayed as being highly spiritual and passionate about Airbending culture. He wasn’t born into the air nation like Tenzin was. He chose to adopt their philosophies (even before he became an Airbender!) and already seemed to have mastered the Airbender fighting style prior to Harmonic Convergence. Despite his questionable morals he’s highly in-tune with spirituality. He has no problems navigating the spirit world (something which Tenzin is unable to do) and even used meditation to locate the Avatar. Although he’s an extremist, even his ideas have some spiritual and philosophical grounding. I thought the chaos part was a bit “cartoon villain” but I actually agree that the Avatar world (and the real world) would be a better place if it adopted a more socialist / pre-soviet communist culture.

Not to mention every member of the Red Lotus is an advanced, one in a million bender. There’s no one else in the avatar world who can Combustionbend. There’s no one else in the avatar world who can Lavabend. Ming-Hua hasn’t really demonstrated any advanced form of Waterbending but her fighting style is certainly unique. All this – tied with the fact that Zaheer was able to remove the air from the Earth Queen’s lungs, something akin to Bloodbending in terms of how overpowered it is – led me to believe that Zaheer wasn’t going to be portrayed as an ordinary Airbender. I had a theory that he was going to master flight due to his fascination with that Airbending Guru, but after this fight I don’t think they’ll go in that direction. I think this makes me like him even more: He’s an ordinary Airbender but he’s still causing all this chaos.
__________________


FB PASBL TL 4

26-4-0 KO74 TP208
B Ref SP 2

Emp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 10:57 AM   #569
Jerichi
プラスチック♡ラブ
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,766
Re: Talon Post 2 Pt. 2

Spoiler: show
I'd actually sort of like to see a revival of energybending and I think it would sort of work with the whole Book 3 Retconning to fit previous elements theme that's been going on. I can tell that the writers are trying their best to clean up messes they've made for themselves previously, and this would be a good opportunity to build what was largely seen as a deus ex machina to be a more essential part of the Avatar cannon. I know we've seen it used before in Korra flashbacks, but this would really install it as an essential Avatar-specific power.
Jerichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 01:35 PM   #570
Loki
The Path of Now & Forever
 
Loki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,304
@ Talon
Spoiler: show
>Why is Kaya at the Northern Air Temple

After Zaheer infiltrated Air Temple Island and fought Kaya, Kaya brought Tenzin's family and the new recruits to the Northern Air Temple. This happened around or before episode 7. She didn't teleport there.


Personal Thoughts:

Spoiler: show
First half was slow. A lot of it felt like filler comedy and dragged out scenes. This is especially true when Bolin and Mako slowly explain their release from prison.

Second half at Northern Air Temple was great. Tenzin finally lets loose. I disagree with Talon on the Zaheer fight. Tenzin pretty much had the upper hand almost the whole fight. Zaheer is intelligent but inexperienced. He tried to take strategic high ground advantage, but Tenzin was clearly the better Airbender and if it weren't for the air support from Combustion Woman, Tenzin easily would have had won the fight.

Also, it's the first Airbender vs. Airbender fight we've ever seen!

Kaya and Bumi's fights were unfortunately one sided against our heroes.

I'm not sure why Waterbenders would fight, it would be just like when Bumi was fighting the lavabender and said "I'm just giving him ammo!" This is exactly what happened with Kaya and it felt fairly pointless. Ultimately the stronger Waterbender just wins outright, and consider Kaya doesn't have water as her replacement limbs, I'm fairly sure she wasn't the better waterbender.

Bumi I was a bit disappointed with. I understand that he is new to airbending and we can't expect him to be blasting hurricanes at a guy, but I would have liked to see how a (former) non-bender soldier would have fought a bender. It clearly something which should happen fairly often enough that a military would teach their soldiers ways to counter a bender's abilities in some way, not necessarily chi blocking, but something. The Equalists were truly powerless and still managed better than Bumi and they're mostly civilians.

Not sure how I feel about Kai taking the heroic lead. It really felt like Jinora should have done more. She's the best of the group and should have really shown she was ready to be an Air Master like she wanted. Instead Kai did something.

Also, how can a dozen Airbenders, new and somewhat experienced not somehow blow away an Airship. Not like entirely away, but Combustion Woman wasn't exactly piloting the thing. Even if they all mustered together for a blast to knock the ship off course or something, it should have been enough to get away. And why didn't the Air Bison help?


Despite some criticisms, I think it was a good episode.
Loki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 02:05 PM   #571
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki View Post
I disagree with Talon on the {2} fight. {1} pretty much had the upper hand almost the whole fight.
You don't disagree with me because I never, ever contradicted this. -_-; If there's something I said that you do disagree with, then please don't misrepresent my position when replying to it. Getting annoyed by how many of you are doing this.

Spoiler: show
To use the analogy with a 10-point scale, I said that the fight was an 8 out of 10 and that I wished it had been a 10 out of 10; you all then come and say, "TALON IS WRONG! THE FIGHT WASN'T A 3 OUT OF 10! IT WAS AT LEAST A 7 OUT OF 10!"

I never said that Zaheer was Tenzin's equal. I said that Zaheer "held his own." Holding one's own doesn't necessarily translate to "was the other guy's equal." It just means that you're not knocked out after one bout.

When Concept, the first person to criticize my position, pressed me on this point, I then clarified for him -- and for all of you --

Quote:
What I had been trying to say with the Zaheer vs. Tenzin fight is, I felt like Tenzin should've been able to overpower Zaheer a lot more than he did. If you go back through this thread, you'll find that I was one of the first people (maybe even the first) to talk about how Zaheer must already have immense martial prowess given that he was imprisoned in a maximum security, solitary confinement cel on top of a mountain despite his inability to bend any of the four elements. I've written in multiple posts about how such a man, when combined with the new gift of airbending, should be amazing. So like, that's not my complaint. I have no complaint about Zaheer being able to Bruce Lee it up against almost any other adversary. The complaint is specific to Tenzin, as Tenzin is the only airbender we have in The Legend of Korra with over a decade of experience. You saw it with Aang in the original series: his gift of being able to blow foot soldiers off their feet. This was done by a child of 10 who was also an extreme pacifist and who recognized he was fighting grunts. In Tenzin's case, he's a man in his forties (so give him triple if not quadruple A:tLA Aang's experience in years). In Tenzin's case, he's fighting the equivalent of a Long Feng or an Ozai, not some generic grunt who works 9-5 for a paycheck. So like ... what I wanted to see was a lot more of A and a lot less of B, B being what we got instead:
  1. "Let me show you what a real Airbender can do. " *MWAHAHA FUCKING EPIC AIRBENDING FIGHT YES PLEASE*
  2. "I will do everything you do, but I will do it with 1.3x power and 1.1x finesse. I will keep knocking you back/down, but you will keep getting up and posing a significant challenge to me. I will not be able to school you the way I could school my own children."
The thing is, though, the more I think about it, the more I realize that what the writers gave us with the Tenzin vs. Zaheer fight was probably the best they could manage given the previously established canon. Like, it's already a fact that Zaheer, without bending, was such a menace that they were barely able to get him behind bars. So one has to imagine that even back in the day he would've posed a real challenge for Tenzin, for Zuko, for any bending master in a 1-on-1 fight. Thus, for Zaheer to be able to do even as well as he did manage against Tenzin ... I suppose the writers had no other choice.

I dunno. I guess I just wanted Tenzin to be a little more ... not flashy, but I guess a little more ... oomph-ey. I would've liked Revenge of the Sith Anakin vs. Obi-Wan, and I feel like instead what we got was just another generic fight.
If you feel the fight was grander than I suggested, fine, we can debate that. But if all you're interested in is debating a fictitious argument that I never voiced, then don't even bother.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 02:51 PM   #572
Red Panda
head head bitch
 
Red Panda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,490
>Loki (and some other thoughts)

Spoiler: show
About the Kai thing, I can totally understand why Jinora didn't go after the Combustion Woman. Her Dad, Tenzin, is out stalling against the villians so that she could get the family and the other airbenders to safety. Her aunt and uncle are both fighting as well. If she were to go after the Combustion Women, who would protect her family? Who would give their life? Kai would surely go after her if she went, and even he really can't be trusted in full to protect her family with his life. Meelo and Ikki are far too young to have that kind of responsibility. So yes, I can fully understand why Jinora chose to stay with her family.

>Bumi VS Magma Dude

I really have no problems with this. You might say "Shouldn't he have some military training in combat? Shouldn't he be prepared for this?" I mean, from what I saw, this is how Bumi tends to fight. He's very... unorthodox about his style of fighting. From what we've seen it's rather random and not exactly "skilled", in a sense. In the Season 2 Finale (or second to last episode) he freed Korra by accidently manipulating that machine to destroy the camp.

My thoughts are for the most part on par with everyone else's for the episode. The grandmother bit irked me a lot. The first time she was used as comic relief for the episode, sure, it's fine, but every other time I nearly grimaced. Wasn't at all necessary. Like, they showed her not wanting to leave her home. She should be upset. She should be crying. Not, "Oh, I'm gonna take a nap. This is our new home, no questions asked, no big deal at all."
Red Panda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 03:02 PM   #573
Schadenfreude
Volcano Badge
 
Schadenfreude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Bar-hopping with Notorious RBG
Posts: 2,263
Send a message via Skype™ to Schadenfreude
Contrary to the some of the opinions in this thread, I am actually enjoying Book 3 immensely. I do think it's better than Book 1 and is reminiscent of ATLA: Book 2, with all the worldbuilding of the Earth Kingdom. And this Book has been substantially dark for YA standards, which makes me happy. Furthermore, the artwork has been expressive and evocative. Yes, it's imperfect, but I'm quite glad and relieved, especially after the slight quality drop in Korra: Book 2.

Schadenfreude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 11:54 PM   #574
Loki
The Path of Now & Forever
 
Loki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,304
@ Talon
Spoiler: show
I guess you've not been in a fight, but constantly running away, missing attacks, and getting countered and struck is not holding your own. And after taking a few good hits and it looking like Tenzin was ready to take Zaheer down just when Combustion Woman attacked, it really was not an equal match in any way. Zaheer was on the verge of losing.

If Zaheer straight up hit Tenzin a few times and they traded blows, that would be him holding his own, but he was not doing so. He was jumping up the walls, probably hoping to get some high ground advantage (or open ground for Combustion Woman to take shots), but Tenzin even cut him off to landed a few blows. Every attack from Zaheer was deflected or dodged and countered fluidly from Tenzin. Before Tenzin was hit by the explosion, Zaheer looked tired and beaten and Tenzin still looked full of energy.


@ Red
Spoiler: show
The problem was, Jinora wasn't protecting anyone. Tenzin, Bumi, and Kaya were risking their lives to protect the airbenders and their families. If Jinora is claiming to be ready to be a master, she should be ready to make the same sacrifice as an adult would.

And if Jinora went, Kai would have had no way to follow. Kai took the only Kite Staff they had. If Jinora had taken it, she could would also be alone, but she's the most senior and experienced Airbender there with the highest chance of anything successful. Kai going felt to me like the writers pushing for us to like him more. "Look at Kai be brave and reckless! And now he'll get away and help save everyone!"

About Bumi: my original impression of Bumi was that he was the inheritor of the original King Bumi's style. King Bumi from TLA was also wacky and crazy, but it always had purpose. His actions may have seemed strange, but it was because King Bumi used... sideways thinking. Is that the term. He thought in a completely different way and would take enemies by surprise.

Bumi (the son) showed some ingenuity with sliding under Lavabender's legs, but it really amounted to so little. I thought he would so something like grapple and wrestle him instead of pulling hair and biting. I expect that if the fight continued, he would have stamped out his toes and gave him 1000 years of pain (ugh Naruto reference).

Your life is on the line. Your family's life is on the line. Don't resort to childish and ineffective attacks. Do something realistic!


Book Three has definitely been getting better starting with Episode 7. Episode 6 was my personal low point. I know I criticize the show a lot at times, but it's because I love the series and want it to be better, because we know it can be better, and at times it actually is perfect.
Loki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2014, 03:05 PM   #575
Tyranidos
beebooboobopbooboobop
 
Tyranidos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Krusty Krab
Posts: 3,800
Send a message via AIM to Tyranidos Send a message via MSN to Tyranidos
Last two episodes are up. Pretty predictable ending, but I still thoroughly enjoyed it.

Spoiler: show
Completely forgot that Jinora was going to be a master. Looks weird and too much like Aang with the tattoos, though I guess that makes sense since she's his granddaughter.


Looking forward to Season 4.
__________________
Tyranidos is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > Entertainment


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:40 AM.


Design By: Miner Skinz.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.