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Old 05-17-2016, 11:19 PM   #1501
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Flamebait counts as trolling, guys.
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Old 05-17-2016, 11:36 PM   #1502
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Originally Posted by Zelphon View Post
I hereby debate he's our Hitler equivalent and should be denied the right to run for presidency followed by charges for shitting on the world's view of America.
Zelphon, would you mind elaborating on the bolded statement?
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Old 05-17-2016, 11:36 PM   #1503
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Zelphon, would you mind elaborating on the bolded statement?
Can we not
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Old 05-17-2016, 11:39 PM   #1504
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Can we not
Shhh I'm actually curious. I'm not trying to start trouble and will back off if things get emotional.

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Originally Posted by Rangeetsuper View Post
Quite frankly looking at the history of how Hitler was elected and then looking back at Trump there's more than enough reason to worry. All he needs to do now is to blame a huge fire on Communists.
To me, looking at the history of how Hitler was elected actually points to Newt Gingrich as the scary one instead. Do you have specific comparisons?
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Old 05-17-2016, 11:50 PM   #1505
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Let's make America Germany great again!

Fuck the Muslims Jews

Ect, Ect.


Seriously though he's Nationalest who thriving off hatred, actively demonising and working against a religion with the message that its all to make a country great again.
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Old 05-18-2016, 12:07 AM   #1506
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Quote:
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Let's make America Germany great again!

Fuck the Muslims Jews

Ect, Ect.


Seriously though he's Nationalest who thriving off hatred, actively demonising and working against a religion with the message that its all to make a country great again.
Are these the only ways in which Trump is similar to Hitler? This doesn't seem like a very strong case to me.

The reason Hitler was so up in arms about Jews was because their close-knit societies allowed them to survive the truly massive German depression that hit after WWI ended. Germany was forced to pay off 50 billion marks in war debts. $12.5 billion in USD. In 1930. The country was more than a little fucked, and the Jews did the best they could, staying frugal and relying on each other in times of hardship and famine. Unfortunately, the reclusive and non-shitty nature of these Jewish communities meant they were an easy target for demonization and hatred by Germans whose money had become worth less than the paper it was printed on overnight. None of this applies to Donald Trump; America's biggest conservative-related issue right now is that trans women sometimes use the Women bathroom, and Trump has firmly set himself as pro-LGBT on nearly every issue.

In addition, Hitler had a great hatred for German Jews, and his aggressive foreign policy meant a spread of his ideologies to nearby areas. However, Trump has expressed admiration and respect for American Muslims, and mostly demonizes and works against ISIS. In my humble opinion, differentiation between specific members of a race is evidence that a person is not a racist.
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Old 05-18-2016, 12:52 AM   #1507
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Although Rangeet is very correct that the parallels with Weimar Hitler are quite pronounced, can we not?

Clinton VP - who will she pick?
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Old 05-18-2016, 02:17 AM   #1508
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I'm thinking Elizabeth Warren is the likely pick- yes, you're doubling down with women, but she has very strong liberal credentials that could re-energize the college-aged liberals into getting out to the polls. The fact that Trump is already attacking her (though he does attack everyone, so grain of salt) further makes me think that she makes a ton of sense as a potential VP.
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Old 05-18-2016, 02:28 AM   #1509
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Honestly, with all the shit that's happened and the sheer blatant corruption and inhumanity of the front-runners on both main sides, I'm thinking of voting Green again. And people might be saying that people like me are just helping Trump get elected, but by now, I don't really give a damn. I'm sadly not convinced Clinton will be much, or any, better. Personal opinion there.
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Old 05-18-2016, 03:49 AM   #1510
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Lots of politicians have acted like Hitler pre-power without going all genocidal like Hitler in power. Comparisons are alarmist and unhelpful.
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Old 05-18-2016, 06:46 AM   #1511
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Can't think of too many who could potentially have been President of the world's most powerful country.
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Old 05-18-2016, 07:10 AM   #1512
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Elizabeth Warren loses my vote if she pairs up with Clinton. I'm very disappointed she didn't run this year, and I'd much rather have her be our first Lady President than Clinton. But if she vouches for Hillary as an awesome person by virtue of agreeing to be her VP, I'm done with the Warren worship.
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Old 05-18-2016, 07:17 AM   #1513
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I'm thinking Elizabeth Warren is the likely pick- yes, you're doubling down with women, but she has very strong liberal credentials that could re-energize the college-aged liberals into getting out to the polls. The fact that Donald "Some, I assume, are good people" Trump is already attacking her (though he does attack everyone, so grain of salt) further makes me think that she makes a ton of sense as a potential VP.
As much as I'd love her to be Veep So someone could kill HRC and she could be our President It's suuuper unlikely for the same reason Sherrod Brown isn't happening. Their states have Republican Governors who would get to appoint their replacements to the Senate. With Dems already struggling to take back the Senate, every seat counts.

I'd put my money on Tim Kaine- he's a longtime Clinton supporter, former Governor and current Senator of a swing state (Was/is quite popular in his state when filling both positions, too.) and while he's a Senator Virginia has a Democrat for a Governor so that's a nonissue.

Clinton will publicly consider Warren until she actually makes her Veep choice because she wants to give the illusion of giving two shits about the left wing of the party but that's my bet on who she'll really go for.
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Old 05-18-2016, 11:16 AM   #1514
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On the flipside, I've decided to NOT vote for Jill Stein. Her reddit AMA was pretty telling; I refuse to support a party (and to some varying degree, candidate) who supports homeopathy and alternative medicine as viable, and is also 100% anti-nuclear energy.
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Old 05-18-2016, 12:21 PM   #1515
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Quote:
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On the flipside, I've decided to NOT vote for Jill Stein. Her reddit AMA was pretty telling; I refuse to support a party (and to some varying degree, candidate) who supports homeopathy and alternative medicine as viable, and is also 100% anti-nuclear energy.
Wasn't planning on voting for her anyway, but
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is also 100% anti-nuclear energy.
seals the deal for me. She may not be as terrible a person as our other picks, but being "NUCLEAR IS THE DEVIL!" is about as bad for me as "VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM!"

Our friends from NASA say hi.
An oldie but a goodie.
Another classic, this one from xkcd giving a sense of scale of various nuclear events along with their Sievert values

I'm not gonna stick my head and the sand and act like nuclear is without problems (nuclear waste disposal being one of the biggest), but even accounting for its problems it is several orders of magnitude safer for humanity than what we're currently doing and is many more orders of magnitude still safer for the planet.
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Old 05-18-2016, 01:35 PM   #1516
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Nuclear energy is awesome and I'm not just saying that because I work for nuclear power developers.

More seriously the homeopathy thing would be a veto for me. If you believe in that brand of alternative medicine you should not be allowed to run anything of consequence.
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Old 05-18-2016, 01:37 PM   #1517
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Quote:
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Nuclear energy is awesome and I'm not just saying that because I work for nuclear power developers.

More seriously the homeopathy thing would be a veto for me. If you believe in that brand of alternative medicine you should not be allowed to run anything of consequence.
I somehow feel an odd desire to completely trust your statement is without any bias!

Yeah being anti-nuclear and pro-homeopathy is a major problem with me.
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Old 05-18-2016, 01:50 PM   #1518
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Would still rather have her than Trump and it's a close run thing between her and Clinton, tbh.

What's Gary Johnson like? Do you have any palatable candidates this year?
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Old 05-18-2016, 01:53 PM   #1519
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Old 05-18-2016, 09:16 PM   #1520
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What's Gary Johnson like? Do you have any palatable candidates this year?

http://www.ontheissues.org/Gary_Johnson.htm

tldr; Typical libertarian. Restrict federal government power and let states decide most things for themselves. Supports gay marriage but doesn't support it on a government level, believes that government has no business being involved with marriage. Pro-choice until fetus reaches 'viability'. Believes drug war is failing and wants to legalize pot. Too much money being spent on military. Etc. Oh, also he hates Obamacare.

He also climbed Mount Everest. So there is that.

I voted for him in 2012. I am probably not going to again. He isn't terrible, but he isn't fantastic. A lot of what he wants to accomplish I either don't agree with or believe is too radical. He is intelligent and not incorrect on many issues, though...

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Old 05-26-2016, 03:11 AM   #1521
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Old 05-26-2016, 03:38 AM   #1522
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Very curious what Trump's endgame is here. He seems to be inviting a lot more criticism than I expected. Does he not realize that this is the time to win people over to his side?

The Democratic vote is currently split - Clinton is beating Bernie by folding his key stances into her campaign - and the most sensible plan for Trump is for him to try to cut a piece of the Democratic pie for his own campaign. But he's not; he's actually launching insults again.

Really, it would be quite easy for Trump to attract Democrats to his side. While his platform is anti-establishment, it really wouldn't hurt him to showcase women and minorities who he feels are doing a good job, without explicitly referencing their status as women or minorities - and Democrats would grudgingly accept that he really is not such a bigot after all as they did when he went out in support of LGBT rights. Easy. Easy easy easy. And yet it's not happening! He's not even making off-the-cuff remarks anymore, this is what he's PLANNING to do.

The Right does not care about social issues, but Trump continues to try to appeal to them by acting "politically incorrect." The time for political incorrectness is long past. If he can't get his shit together I may have to reluctantly withdraw my vote, even though I still believe that he's most likely the right choice.

The Presidency is like chess, and the election even more so. If he can't handle an election while making the ideal moves my faith in his ability to make the right moves in office is a lot less strong.

EDIT: This is of course assuming that he is not secretly bigoted and misogynistic and all those things y'all call him. I do strongly believe he's not a racist, but he could have some attitudes about other groups that might put him out of the race just on principle.
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Old 05-26-2016, 11:26 AM   #1523
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Unless he invents a time machine and goes back to stop himself from making all his terrible comments against Mexicans, Muslims, women, etc; I doubt any significant number of liberals will suddenly think "maybe he's not a bigot after all!"
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Old 05-26-2016, 01:08 PM   #1524
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Unless he invents a time machine and goes back to stop himself from making all his terrible comments against Mexicans, Muslims, women, etc; I doubt any significant number of liberals will suddenly think "maybe he's not a bigot after all!"
This. When he made his comments against against Ted Cruz with the bathrooms I didn't think "he's not a bigot" I thought "well at least he isn't Ted Cruz."
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Old 05-26-2016, 01:13 PM   #1525
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Unless he invents a time machine and goes back to stop himself from making all his terrible comments against Mexicans, Muslims, women, etc; I doubt any significant number of liberals will suddenly think "maybe he's not a bigot after all!"
His comments have not been objectively terrible; most of what makes them objectionable is in his tone, identity, etc. Whether you like him or not, you are forced to concede that his attacks are not on women, not on minorities, but on specific people or governments who are female or minority. This has been taken to mean that he dislikes the groups they belong to, and it would be surprisingly easy to set a stance consistent with earlier comments that is not divisive or bigoted that fits in with the idea that he wants to fix problems in government and "make america great again" etc. etc.

The strategy with his comments attacking women like Warren and Clinton are to show that he is not afraid of the establishment Left, but this is a piss-poor strategy for a general election where he should be defining himself as a uniter who is not afraid to stick it not just to the "liberal elite", but to people on his side who are just as objectionable.

And the sheer fact that you are saying "there's nothing he can do that will convince me he is not a bigot thanks to his earlier comments!" just proves my point that he is doing the wrong move here. Where he should be uniting the country despite high-profile figures calling him a figure of divisiveness, he's doing exactly the opposite and playing into their hands. It's a little disgusting actually.
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