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Old 05-28-2014, 09:44 PM   #2226
Heather
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I don't think you get EQ with Piplup and I do like my electric coverage, because in LC the speed race is often everything, like it was in that match-I saw Aipom had a higher base speed so I knew I was probably going to take that home. Having something to cover the usually fast Electric types, or even force them off to go to a flying type, is most definitely welcome in my book.

Litwick

INFILTRATOR. NUFF SAID.

Clauncher and it's mega launcher, and the amount of things it can do in terms of type pool, even just as a launcher, is too good to pass up IMO.

Piplup

Don't you be dissin my bro now. He is QUITE capable when equipped with coverage for Grass and Electric.

You all seem to be good with Bagon.

And Aipom is Aipom, and Bunnelby is Bunnelby. And yes Bunnelby packs U-turn.
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Old 05-28-2014, 09:56 PM   #2227
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Return is still better than Fury Swipes on Aipom (see: your miss in the replay) and if he gets Technician (I believe he does) then you should be using that instead of Skill Link because of Fake Out.
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Old 05-28-2014, 10:03 PM   #2228
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When using Fury swipes Skill Link is crucial though. I have my reasons, and misses on fury swipes are not all that common, anyway.

When Fury swipes has proven to be able to deal at least 20% (and that's against a resisting eviolite user) when Skill Linked, it becomes clear that when you're not in a back against the wall last Pokémon situation, most non-Eviolite targets are going to be KO'd in one use with about 19-25% per hit on average. Eviolite users will eventually have that padding stolen from them, or if it's a Slowpoke, just using Thief makes them die.
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Old 05-28-2014, 10:16 PM   #2229
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Are Sub users common in LC? That's literally the only reason to use Skill Link.
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Old 05-28-2014, 11:45 PM   #2230
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Missy is the only real user and she's immune.
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Old 05-28-2014, 11:57 PM   #2231
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I think it's pretty clear by now that Myles is playing more for his favourites than 100% seriously. Which, don't get me wrong, is perfectly fine, but could use a disclaimer when you're outright seeming to discuss things according to if you like them than if they're actually good.

Also for the record you are really annoying with everything you say in-battle :p
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Old 05-29-2014, 12:08 AM   #2232
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Broke 1200 in VGC 2014. Small victories.
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Old 05-29-2014, 05:40 AM   #2233
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Where Piplup shows his stuff-in another wire match (LC, 25 turns)

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That luck with that Tituoga, I'm teling you. Missing stone edge then a flinch? Hoo boy.
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Old 05-29-2014, 08:21 AM   #2234
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In which I get one of the most physically biased teams I've ever gotten. (RandBats, 18 turns)

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Man did this match scare the hell out of me. He starts off with a Ferrothorn, and I start off with a Wormy-Sand, Krookodile, Kabutops, Cincinno, Sharpedo, and a Sudowoodo. My first thought: My team is just fucked by Ferrothorn. But it turns out that Krookodile love his Superpower and I'm able to remove the defensive threat from the game. From there, I manage to keep offensive pressure on, get pleasantly surprised that my Sharpedo is for the most part Specially based, with a set of Protect / Hydro Pump / Dark Pulse / Aqua Jet, only to find out "yeah it really doesn't matter he has Raikou." But a team with not only Raikou, but Ferrothorn, Swellow, Tornadus, and Kyurem-W and he still lost. I feel pretty proud for my team of physical bruisers.
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Old 05-29-2014, 11:48 AM   #2235
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I'm good at Random Doubles so why do I suck so bad at VGCs ...? (Random Doubles, 8 turns)

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1512 isn't the greatest by any means but it's good enough to make 57th place on the ladder for Random Doubles. Yet I can't even manage to hold onto 1200 in VGCs. orz

And I think I battle well! I think this battle demonstrates some good application of Protect, some good applications of strategic switching, some good principles on how to dismantle enemy teams ...

I'm not sure how much of it is my own (lack of? ) skill, how much of it is my (shitty? ) team, and how much of it is the fact that you only get to use four out of six potential Pokémon and that I'm not good at working around this yet (PLEASE BE THIS ONE!), but man if I'm not disappointed with how difficult it has been to climb the ladder in the VGC 2014 tier.

I tried finding a Nugget Bridge team but none leapt out at me as being ones I'd want to run. Will have to try again later.

... maybe I should talk more about the battle linked instead of my VGC woes. ^^;

Lucario was the MVP here. Had he not been intimidated, I would've probably gone for an ExtremeSpeed on the weakened Milotic on Turn 6; but as it was, I worried that he would fail to secure the KO; and so between Turns 5 and 6, I had to find a way to kill Pinsir before Pinsir would kill Lucario. That came in the form of speedy Darmanitan. Sure enough, Darmanitan forced the opponent to desperately use Quick Attack (rather than opting for another Earthquake), leaving not only Darmanitan to kill him but also Mega Lucario to kill off Milotic with an untouchable Close Combat.

Once it was down to my opponent's final two Pokémon, it was already game. Lucario would clearly outspeed both enemies and Close Combat the ice dinosaur; Darmanitan would clearly outspeed both enemies and could do whatever, I didn't care; and I had not only a Beartic but more importantly a Minun waiting in the wings to electrocute the sea jelly ghost. But since Lucario could afford to use Protect that turn, I figured, "Why not? " Did. Had Darmanitan use Earthquake. And got a lucky critical hit that OHKOed Jellicent, adding insult to my opponent's injury.

SERIOUSLY! (Random Battle, 7 turns)

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Normally I wouldn't share such a brutal but otherwise unnotable win. Especially not when the scores reveal that my opponent is 200 points beneath me. But the 4-0 victory here hot off the heels of the previous battle proves the point all the more, I feel. Random Doubles: taking names. VGC 2014: getting my ass handed to me. >_<

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Old 05-29-2014, 02:04 PM   #2236
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Its probably just inexperience with that particular metagame. Ive seen your battling skills, and I dont think thats the problem.
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Old 05-29-2014, 02:30 PM   #2237
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VGCs is totally different due so many Pokemon being illegal and transfer only moves being banned
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Old 05-29-2014, 02:44 PM   #2238
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VGCs is totally different due so many Pokemon being illegal and transfer only moves being banned
Maybe so: but it's still an even playing field. It's not like I'm handicapped while they're not. We're all in it together. We're all equally handicapped / not handicapped. While it's true that I can't run some of my favorites, it's not like I'm running with creatures who weren't featured in the teams of the Top 10 players at recent tournaments. Looking at Melbourne's recent Regionals, we see Aegislash on Masters 3rd place's team, Rhydon on 6th place's, Charizard Y on 7th's, etc. Gardevoir was on Seniors 2nd and 5th places' teams, Meowstic-M was on 6th's, etc. While there may be much to be said for my current team's appalling lack of team synergy, it's not like they're "shit creatures" that no one in his right mind gets away with using in VGC. Clearly. Yet here I am, unable to hold onto the pitifully low score of 1200 for more than an hour.

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Its probably just inexperience with that particular metagame. Ive seen your battling skills, and I dont think thats the problem.
Well thank you. But even if you're right, it's still strange to me. Doubles period isn't something I've had that much experience with before the last two weeks. The number of Doubles battles I've done in the past two weeks in Random Doubles is probably as large as the total number of Doubles battles I'd done in the 10+ years up until then. While my legs were a little wobbly with Random Doubles at first, I picked it up fairly quickly and made it to -- I had thought -- a mid-level of competency in the format. I was surprised to discover that, no in fact, I'd already placed in the Top 10 on the server. (On the one, perhaps lucky account. The other account's been mostly hugging the high 1400s and low 1500s, which is probably where the second account would be too if I used it more.) So I dunno. It's strange to me that I adapted so quickly to one Doubles format but to the (what I thought would be) smaller hop, skip, and a jump on over to VGCs I've fallen flat on my face. I thought going from Singles to Doubles would be a much larger leap than going from random @ 6 to orchestrated @ 4. Apparently not. ^^;

I am definitely still learning things about this format though. For example, just today I saw Mat Block used for the very first time. Had never seen that move before and certainly wouldn't have expected a Greninja to be used in a defensive role like that. But at the end of the day, Pokémon is Pokémon: and so I'm surprised to see just how hard it is to adapt to this new environment. Whether I stick with it or not remains to be seen. I won't lie that I'm worried that learning how to VGC will develop bad habits for traditional Singles. But maybe that's just needless worry ...
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Old 05-29-2014, 02:57 PM   #2239
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Well obviously its a combination of Pokemon and playstyle, but when I see most people playing in VGC 2014 its usually the lack of Pokemon choices that throws them off this year. Same thing for 2011(2011 was even worse, only Unova Pokemon, and we didn't have Therian formes at the time xD). Prediction is also huge in VGC, from predicting which four they'll choose to which gimmicks might they have, but considering you're so good at randbats I figured you'd be used to that. Maybe the team doesn't fit your play style, I know it took me forever to make my team(which I should probably do an analysis on later) because I couldn't get a team that effectively matched my playstyle.
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Old 05-29-2014, 03:06 PM   #2240
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First Ever VGC Battle

Already one battle in and I face a guy who knows what hes doing. So yeah.
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Old 05-29-2014, 03:11 PM   #2241
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I feel dirty running a team like this, but I decided to try it out in the interests of science. If I suck with this team that, at least species-wise, won Melbourne's Regionals' Masters division, then it's not the team that's the problem but me. (Well, it could still be the team if I have shit moves and/or items on there, but ...)

So yeah. Here's a game. It's the first or second game I got to play with the team. There were two before this/these but they resulted in insta-forfeits, as in, Turn 0 forfeits. Guys took one look at my team and quit. Never had that happen before in VGC 2014. Makes me feel that much scummier about using a team like this. -_-; But *sigh*, let's just take it out for a test drive and see how it handles.
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Old 05-29-2014, 03:24 PM   #2242
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Caterpie is the real deal

I finally got a win, but man, it was close.

Dont feel like making another post, so heres win #2

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc2014-125277949

Got lucky that his team had a major flaw, but in the end it came down to hax. Doubles definitely isnt my thing.
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Old 05-29-2014, 03:42 PM   #2243
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Apparently I just suck. (VGC 2014, 10 turns)

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So many times he trolled me with Protect. Never have I seen the move used more than in this format. Still getting used to it.

I thought I had it won there in the end. Had I known Gardevoir carried Hyper Beam and could OHKO, I'd have Sucker Punched for sure. Only reason I didn't was because I wanted the clean, orthodox kill with Return. Was worried Sucker Punch would fall just short of KOing her, she'd bring me below half with a Dazzling Gleam or some such, and then she'd do something weird next turn (Will-o-Wisp maybe?) and win that way. I dunno. But ugh. To have been PP stalled by Moltres (didn't notice it until it happened that I was out) and to lose because of Struggle on my weakened guy and a OHKO to my 100%HP guy ... man. >_< So disappointed in that outcome.

With my score in the low 1100s still, it's fast becoming clear to me that it isn't the team. At least not species-wise, anyway. Could be the moves and/or items. (You saw how TrickScarf Rotom backfired on me there.) Could just be me. ~_~
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Old 05-29-2014, 03:52 PM   #2244
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The problem with finalists from regionals and even nationals is that different countries play different. America, for instance, had been very slow to use Dark Void Smeargle, which meant thatPepole who did use it won more that they would have in, say, Japan, where Dark Void Smeargle was fairly common and likewise its counters are more common. Since PS is international, however, you have to be able to create a team that covers the main playstyles of the whole world, which makes finalists teams from a specific area harder to use. This also applies to the LCQ(Which I'm hopefully going to ) and Worlds itself, and the players who are capable of dealing with the most playstyles will have an edge over his/her competitors. Thats not to say that finalist's team from regionals are bad; just that using only a finalist's team may not be enough.
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Old 05-29-2014, 03:57 PM   #2245
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"this is a long af LC game" (LC, 42 Rounds)

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So I've been changing up my team bit by bit, partly on the suggestion of a helpful team rater on Smogon. I swapped out Aipom for Archen a few battles back and found that he was a pretty solid offensive swap with much better coverage. Only recently did I get rid of my Life Orb Abra due to the fact that his frailty and weakness to Pawniard and Misdreavus were making him near-useless against more competitive LC teams. Instead, I swapped in Pawniard, with a somewhat unconventional set.

...of course, Pawniard kicks the bucket vs. Trubbish.

This sets off a chain of events which turns this battle into a war of attrition. Archen -> Foe's Snubbull -> My Snubbull happens at least 3 times, which he uses to control the match up a number of times. Thankfully, my defenses are just good enough to keep myself going.

Long story short, it turns into a stall-fest, something that is really quite rare in a fast-paced, low stat meta like this one.
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Old 05-29-2014, 04:44 PM   #2246
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Quote:
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The problem with finalists from regionals and even nationals is that different countries play different. America, for instance, had been very slow to use Dark Void Smeargle, which meant thatPepole who did use it won more that they would have in, say, Japan, where Dark Void Smeargle was fairly common and likewise its counters are more common. Since PS is international, however, you have to be able to create a team that covers the main playstyles of the whole world, which makes finalists teams from a specific area harder to use. This also applies to the LCQ(Which I'm hopefully going to ) and Worlds itself, and the players who are capable of dealing with the most playstyles will have an edge over his/her competitors. Thats not to say that finalist's team from regionals are bad; just that using only a finalist's team may not be enough.
Not enough to win Worlds, absolutely. Not enough to hold onto a ranking of 1200 in Smogon's VGC 2014 tier, what the hell.

That's my problem. That's what I find so remarkable, so mind-boggling. OU, I'm not God but using my team o' favorites (who have meh synergy together and are mostly BL and UU) I manage OU scores these days in the upper 1400s to lower 1500s without taking tiering there seriously. Not bad imo. Not great either, a far cry from what I used to manage, but not bad. Random Battles, as you've seen, Daisy and I enjoy aiming for Top 20 on the ladder. Daisy is my better and has managed Top 10, Top 5, even 1st place before. Not counting fresh ladder resets, I don't know that I've done more than Top 20 on Smogon's RandBats ladder. But I have managed that much. So I'd like to think I'm pretty good there, at least. ;o But VGC 2014 ... to not even be able to hold onto a score +200 above the starting point ... to periodically dip back into the 1000s ... it's not good. ^^; And as much as I'd love to blame it on the team being shit for the environment, I don't think I can do that. The team looks competent to me. And if it won Melbourne Regionals, then even if it couldn't manage 32nd place at Worlds, it should at least be managing super-1200 on PS's VGC server. So I would think, anyway. Such are my expectations.

In my defense, I have noticed that the playstyle adopted in VGC 2014 differs from that in Random Doubles in several critical ways. The bluffing isn't harder in VGC 2014 -- in fact, as I'm starting to figure it out, I'd say in many ways it's more linear and predictable than in Random Battles -- but it's different. That's the thing. The feints people choose to make in VGC 2014 are sometimes wildly different from the feints made in OU or the various Random Battle tiers. I think that once I get accustomed to people's practices, that should at least help me out somewhat. But still. I'm not expecting that to add more than a stable 50 points to my score.
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Old 05-29-2014, 08:46 PM   #2247
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Wherein Brave Bird misses a confused, three-headed ostrich. (VGC 2014, 10 turns)

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In Team Preview, I took one look at his team and thought, "Oh great! Well this should be an easy win!" Ten turns later would prove just how wrong I was. I did win, but only just barely. Had I been even one attack slower, the win would have been his, not mine.

Turn 1 reveals a frequent problem I've been having: people keep using Protect when I want to Fake them Out. I suppose it's obvious who my target for Fake Out will be in most cases -- "Whoever poses the greatest threat to Mega Kangaskhan!" -- but it's very annoying to use Fake Out on somebody only for them to Protect. I feel like a fool every time. And putting personal feelings aside, it's a waste of a perfectly good turn, a lost opportunity to do some nice damage. (Imagine if I had used Return that very turn against Dodrio instead ...!) Of course, I'm sure that the moment I swap out Fake Out for some other attack that all of a sudden things will be killing Mega Kangaskhan on Turn 1 left and right and I'll regret having deleted it. For that reason, it stays put for now.

I was surprised that Dodrio chose to remain out; and Thrash struck me as an even more peculiar choice. As I've quickly learned, the Outrage-category moves (or I suppose I should say the Thrash-category moves since Thrash is Outrage's older brother ) do not allow you to choose your target in a Doubles battle. As a result, they're less optimal than they are in Singles where the only drawbacks they have are 1) locking you in and 2) confusing you at the end of the salvo. I thought for sure that my opponent would either a) run for the hills, fearing Discharge/Thunderbolt, or else b) target Mega Kangaskhan and use Brave Bird. Thrash? Surprising. :o

My strategy in these first few turns was simple: "He's got physical threats out. Let's boost our physical defense; let's weaken his physical offense." Reflect, Intimidate, Will-o-Wisp: the playtoys of a man determined to derail physical teams.

Turn 5 is where the match suddenly starts going to Hell for me. :\ While the score is 3-2 at the top of the round, it's 2-2 by the end of it, my Dragon Dance-boosted Salamence pseudo-OHKOed by my opponent's HP:Ice attack. (What good are you, Yache Berry!? ) Worse, Dodrio breaks free from its confusion immediately. Greaaaaaat. -_-;

Turn 6 is even worse. Not only does Reflect fade at the end of the round, not only is the score only just 2-2 (with me being the one to have caught up!), but fucking A -- I waste another Fake Out on a Protect user! >_< WHO RUNS PROTECT ON MEGA AMPHAROS!? Apparently this guy does. (And maybe they all do. I don't know! What do I look like? A VGC expert? )

Turn 7 should have been obvious to me from Singles but I was seeing red at this point and completely forgot that a Guts Flareon (which I correctly had it pegged for) would almost certainly run Protect in the Protect-heavy environment that is VGC. They run it in Singles too. But for some reason, it just didn't register to me that he was 99.9% certain to use Protect. The move wasn't even on my radar. And so I waste yet another attack this round on a Protected target. Ugh. The only reason the turn isn't a total loss is the fact that my opponent targeted Talonflame instead of Mega Kangaskhan -- and I had Talonflame use a Protect as well. ;o

Turn 8, Trick Room finally fades. Not that it matters -- the turn's final outcome is decided entirely by priority attacks.

Turn 9, it's just Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Ampharos, each at full health. Mega Kangaskhan wins the speed war (YUS \o/) and does enough for a guaranteed 2HKO. Sadly, however, she fails to OHKO. It's all down to this. Will Mega Ampharos use Focus Blast? Will he use something else that might still OHKO me? He swings aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand ... Dragon Pulse. It deals hefty damage. In fact, it deals enough to 2HKO too, just like mine.

And thus this match is decided: I win, but only because I'm faster and Mega Ampharos has no priority moves to circumvent this nor healing moves to outmaneuver me.

Turn 10, I deal the finishing blow. Our roles could've easily been reversed.
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Old 05-29-2014, 09:55 PM   #2248
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If you don't run protect one something in Double in general you had better have a good reason why :P
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Old 05-29-2014, 09:59 PM   #2249
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If you don't run protect one something in Double in general you had better have a good reason why :P
Better coverage? Not getting Encored into a Protect chain? Not having dead weight once Taunted? Not wanting to give the opponent free turns to set up? I dunno, it feels like the VGC crowd is a little too Protect-happy to me. ^^; It's a great move, all the better in Doubles, certainly, but it has its place and its time, I feel. I can't believe that it belongs on 66% of the six-creature team or 75% of the four-creature team. Yet believe it I must, I suppose, if the battles I've been in are to be believed themselves.
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Old 05-29-2014, 11:24 PM   #2250
Emi
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>playing random doubles with yuki and lanturn
>gets a wobby

omg who even uses wobby in doubles whyyyyy
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