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Old 05-26-2014, 08:51 PM   #2176
rotomotorz
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VGC format on Smogon is a lot more competitive than OU and your team needs to be ready for good players. Suggestions:

Taunt: Taunt isn't very necessary on most teams but its nice to have when dealing with Rotom's WoW, Meowstic, Aegislash, Smeagle, and occasional set-up Pokemon. Its better if used on faster Pokemon.

VS Smeargle: Your team thankfully(for you) didn't fight any Smeargles and Smeargle itself has been losing popularity, but its still a dangerous enough Pokemon. Dark Void Smeargle with a Sash can catch your team by surprise, especially when partnered with a Fake Out user. There are also other Smeargles around as well which fill varying support roles based on the team. These Smeargle are even more tricky because most players expect Smeargle to go straight for a Dark Void and are caught off guard by anything ranging from Tailwind, Trick Room, and other moves. Since Smeargle is so versatile the best way to deal with it is to either Taunt it or use walls which can deal with either Dark Void or the Pokemon it runs with.

Tailwind: Tailwind is not the most common move but can be devastating when used by the right Pokemon or with the right Pokemon. Talonflame get priority Tailwind, so it is uncommon to sometimes see Talonflame setting up a Tailwind and then spamming BB. Some Smeargle also run Tailwind but its easier to tell whether if its priority is setting up Tailwind or using Dark Void, based on the Pokemon running beside it. If its partner is a hard hitter and doesn't normally learn Fake Out then it might be running Tailwind, but there's no way to be sure unless it uses it.

Talonflame: Talonflame isn't really countered on even checked on your team and in most of your encounters with it you wait for it to KO itself with recoil. Physical walls that aren't Steel type deal with it fairly well, and Intimidate is a great way to limit how much damage its doing. Rotom Wash and Rotom Heat also wall it well, and many Talonflame can be seen running with anti-Rotom Pokemon. Talonflame can also be used as unexpected utility with moves like Quick Guard, Taunt, and Tailwind(which gets priority).

Intimidate is a fairly common ability, run by Salamance and Mawile and a few others, and for a good reason too. Intimidate helps weaken the rampant physical attackers such as Mawile, Garchomp, Mega Kangaskhan, Talonflame, Dragonite, and more. I suggest you replace Reckless on Staraptor for Intimidate because while Reckless lets it do crap-loads of damage Intimidate can help weaken any physical attackers that come your way. Partnered with Espeon's Reflect, it makes you team a lot less scared by physical attacks.

I'm not the best VGC player out there but from what I understand by VGC some of these suggestion may come in handy
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Old 05-26-2014, 08:58 PM   #2177
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For the first time in my life, I have more than ten battles fought and my W:L ratio is below 1:1. This has been a humbling experience.

For the time being (and a lot of laziness), thinking of just copy+pasting a Nugget Bridge team and rolling with it. Years of success in Random Battles tells me (I'm still loved by you, Big Guy Upstairs, right? ) that I'm great at the actual battling side of Pokémon. Maybe it's the team creation, given what a different format VGC is, that is holding me back. I can only hope. ^^; I don't think my pride can take much more abuse. :p
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Old 05-26-2014, 09:06 PM   #2178
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For the first time in my life, I have more than ten battles fought and my W:L ratio is below 1:1. This has been a humbling experience.
Hello Talon, and welcome to my world. I know the teams I make aren't exactly paragon, but I hate to see them get demolished over and over.
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Old 05-26-2014, 09:07 PM   #2179
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I don't like your world, Myles, and am looking to get a ticket out of it ASAP. I feel like I've landed in Competitive Pokémon Detroit.
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Old 05-26-2014, 09:10 PM   #2180
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Neither do I, Talon, neither do I. Though I feel more like I'm facing people who could practically major in competitive due to my lack of skill most days.
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Old 05-26-2014, 09:18 PM   #2181
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I love LC to death, and probably would be doing LC SPL right now if I hadn't gotten sick of Smogon after two months or so. Although I love him, the meta's become much better now that Krowmon and Tite are banned, allowing the meta to be much bulkier in general. I haven't played it much since those bans, but I imagine it's even better than I remember it. The only things in LC that I genuinely dislike are how prevalent and crippling Knock Off is in the tier, and the ridiculously high amount of matches that come down to speed ties due to most Pokemon in the tier having a speed between 13 and 18. Once exams are over, I'll throw together a new team, and I'd love to battle you guys sometime. I'll probably be rusty as hell though xD
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Old 05-26-2014, 10:15 PM   #2182
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All I remember from VGC is Surf spam and Hitmontop best Pokemon.

Then I learned Hitmontop wasn't legal and was sad.
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Old 05-26-2014, 10:26 PM   #2183
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Back when weather was infinite my VGC rain team was kick ass. I had Politoed obviously, and Kingdra, Ludicolo, Toxicroak, Vaporeon, and Tornadus-T, I think.

Either way, Constant Rain + Surf Spam + Dry Skin/Water Absorb was quite the set up.
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Old 05-26-2014, 10:27 PM   #2184
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I was gonna try VGC, but then realized that Excadrill was banned so I stopped trying in game because no sand =[

Though I may try it out on Smogon with Garchomp/Talonflame/Mega Mommy/Greninja/filler/filler

Either that or Trick Room
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Old 05-26-2014, 10:30 PM   #2185
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I've done a bit of VGC recently. The team included MegaZard Y, Venusaur, MegaTTar, Rotom-W, Mamoswine, and Greninja. (though only one mega is typically brought to any one match)

It works decently well. My rating is basically stuck in the 1200s though, only rising into the 1300s on occasion.

I feel like I miss a lot of the finer points of doubles many times, such as proper times to protect/predict protect. I'm getting better, but it's slow going.
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Old 05-26-2014, 10:37 PM   #2186
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Despite the obvious competition, for a while I used Moltres. Mostly because I wanted a special variant of Fire/Flying and wanted to use it with MegaGarde. Still, though, Fire Blast/Hurricane hit like a truck. Sadly it wasn't quite fast enough for Specs. And it needs Protect.

If only I could remember my previous teams. One I think was Yzard/Meowstic-M/Mamo/Helioptile/MegaBanette/???

The other was MegaGarde/Rotom-W/Krookodile/Goodra/Moltres/MegaHeracross
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Old 05-26-2014, 10:47 PM   #2187
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I find myself, yet again, struggling to find a way to stop Xard while keeping team synergy. I'm absolutely sick of that Pokemon and it needs to go. Win buttons are annoying and I can't stand them.

Also I find myself repeatedly wanting to drop Sleep Powder on Mega Venusaur simply because of the fact that if it misses, its a massive momentum killer. Not sure on what to replace it with however. Maybe Earthquake.
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Old 05-26-2014, 10:59 PM   #2188
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Ah, Mega Venusaur. The one thing I hate more than STUPID WHITNEY!MILTANK.
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Old 05-26-2014, 11:23 PM   #2189
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What's a Miltank?

In which one defensive Water type proves to be far more effective than the other.

So, I recently made two decisions on the team. First of all, I got rid of Rotom-W and put in Quagsire. Rotom-W, as I've discovered over the past few times I played OU, has proven to be "that Pokemon." No energy, not enough ability, but repeatedly lauded for his typing and other things. I've found him to be so annoyingly mediocre this Generation that I decided to give him the boot and instead go for a different defensive water. Quagsire was my choice because of my team's weakness to Xard. I needed a hard defensive counter to it. I'm not losing much synergy either, since I already have two Ground immunities and that's part of the reason you use Rotom-W!

I was not disappointed. My first match with the change and the first thing I go up against is the horror that is Double Bird. I very quickly cursed about not having Rotom-W for its juicy Flying resistance, but I figured that I could handle his two birds with the defensive combination of Quagsire (for Talonflame) and Aegislash (for Staraptor). He also had Char-Y, which I can...handle decently thanks to Sp.Def Mandi, and other in general dangerous things. Boys and girls, THIS is an example of a HO team. I think I did pretty well in all honestly. Made a few misplays (Latios man why you OHKO my Landy) but the fact that Quagsire basically sat on Talonflame and slowly watched it wither away gave me much satisfaction. No longer did I need the Washing Machine, but I could use a badass Salamander* for my team's defensive needs. More time will tell if it was worth it or not.

*Disclaimer: Yes, I am aware that Evilswarm Salamandra is not a salamander but a dinosaur. They look similar though and Salamandra looks awesome.
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Old 05-27-2014, 01:36 PM   #2190
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First VGC game since last night. (VGC 2014, 8 turns)

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After a little warming up in Random Doubles (a string of losses there too didn't exactly do wonders for my enthusiasm, so I decided to play there a bit first), I decided to give VGCs another go with the unchanged team from last night. If I do more VGC 2014 battling, I definitely intend to copy+paste a Nugget Bridge team that feels like a good fit for me, don't get me wrong, but for now I just wanted to see what I could accomplish.

Kinda fucking nuts that a battle in the 1050s saw such an immense struggle against such bruising powerweights. My opponent brought, not fucking joke:
  • Mega Kangaskhan
  • Dragonite
  • Gengar
  • Aegislash
Jesus fucking Christ, I'm screwed. Or at least, that's how I felt by the end of the first phase of the match. Several turns in and it just wasn't looking good. Espeon is total dead weight at this point -- he almost only ever sees use as a screens setter-upper, in which case there have got to be better choices -- and it was all Aegislash could do to not die by the end of Turn 2.

Staraptor proved helpful but I think he definitely wants to be replaced by Talonflame. In a meta with so many Ghost types, being choice locked into either Double Edge or Close Combat is just not something I can afford.

Mega Charizard Y for the cleanup MVP. No surprises there.

Aegislash for the overall MVP, a first for me. Normally my Aegislashes don't do shit. But this time Aegislash managed to set up and KO not one, not two, but three out of the four enemy Pokémon. Not bad, not bad at all.
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Old 05-27-2014, 01:43 PM   #2191
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My problem with Talonflame is that it's really not all that strong. Like, a base attack in the 80s VS Staraptors which is over 120. And Talonflame lacks Fighting coverage all together when it wants it more than Staraptor does.
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Old 05-27-2014, 01:48 PM   #2192
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Right, you don't gotta tell me, man. I've been running Staraptor in Singles since 2007. But like I said, I can't afford being choice locked into Normal or Fighting moves in a format where:
  • at best I have only two Pokémon that can trade places with Staraptor (because Doubles and 4v4)
  • Ghost types appear to be omnipresent, with everyone running at least one of either Aegislash or Gengar
If Staraptor didn't want for a choice item, then we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. But Staraptor is tragically "too slow," despite the once-yearned-for base speed of 100, because of the prevalence of threats which have higher base speeds, powerful priority attacks, or speed-boosting attacks. Staraptor, ever the glass cannon, needs to win the speed war to be relevant. And that means he has to run Choice Scarf. Which means he has to be choice locked. Which means I am probably right in my decision to deposit him for something else.

I love Staraptor, and he's magnificent in Singles. But in VGC 2014, he's been unreliable at best, costing me the game at worst.
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Old 05-27-2014, 02:15 PM   #2193
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Mm. I see your point.

I just have a resentment towards Talonflame, that's all.
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Old 05-27-2014, 02:25 PM   #2194
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If you're looking for a VGC screener, Meowstic-M is one of your best choices. I use a dedicated screener/suicide lead and it's done well for me. Klefki works a lot the same but doesn't have the benefit of Fake Out.
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Old 05-27-2014, 02:30 PM   #2195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
First VGC game since last night. (VGC 2014, 8 turns)

Spoiler: show
After a little warming up in Random Doubles (a string of losses there too didn't exactly do wonders for my enthusiasm, so I decided to play there a bit first), I decided to give VGCs another go with the unchanged team from last night. If I do more VGC 2014 battling, I definitely intend to copy+paste a Nugget Bridge team that feels like a good fit for me, don't get me wrong, but for now I just wanted to see what I could accomplish.

Kinda fucking nuts that a battle in the 1050s saw such an immense struggle against such bruising powerweights. My opponent brought, not fucking joke:
  • Mega Kangaskhan
  • Dragonite
  • Gengar
  • Aegislash
Jesus fucking Christ, I'm screwed. Or at least, that's how I felt by the end of the first phase of the match. Several turns in and it just wasn't looking good. Espeon is total dead weight at this point -- he almost only ever sees use as a screens setter-upper, in which case there have got to be better choices -- and it was all Aegislash could do to not die by the end of Turn 2.

Staraptor proved helpful but I think he definitely wants to be replaced by Talonflame. In a meta with so many Ghost types, being choice locked into either Double Edge or Close Combat is just not something I can afford.

Mega Charizard Y for the cleanup MVP. No surprises there.

Aegislash for the overall MVP, a first for me. Normally my Aegislashes don't do shit. But this time Aegislash managed to set up and KO not one, not two, but three out of the four enemy Pokémon. Not bad, not bad at all.
Non-mega Gengar is fairly rare and Dragonite is pretty uncommon. I suggest you get used to Mega Kangaskhan because it is the single most common Pokemon in VGC. Look at the teams of all the winning Spring Regionalists. Mega Kangaskhan is everywhere. Also I still suggest putting Intimidate on Staraptor
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Old 05-27-2014, 02:42 PM   #2196
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What's a Miltank?
How cute, its never plated Johto. XP

Really though. You think Blissey's an annoying tank? You haven't seen jack until you've had to deal with Whitney's Miltank-its the one gym battle I consistently struggle on no matter what-just because it exists. And highly male favoring Gender ratios leading up to her make Attract a nightmare.
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Old 05-27-2014, 02:47 PM   #2197
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Oh no I know exactly what you are talking about. I've just never had the difficulty factor. I've always either used Geodude or that Machop you get in HGSS to beat it.
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Old 05-27-2014, 02:50 PM   #2198
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My Flaafy took down Miltank.

The key is to buy the TM for Thunder.
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Old 05-27-2014, 02:52 PM   #2199
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What does Rotom do in Doubles that Im missing?

No spread moves, Volt Switch is less usefull, and Burns are still nice, but theres two potential Pokemon targeting you.
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Old 05-27-2014, 02:54 PM   #2200
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Its funny because one of the starter Pokemon you get naturally learns Poison Powder at level 9, Synthesis at level 12, and Reflect at level 18

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What does Rotom do in Doubles that Im missing?

No spread moves, Volt Switch is less usefull, and Burns are still nice, but theres two potential Pokemon targeting you.
Rotom Heat is good for beating AegiMawThorn, Talonflame, and Charizard Y. Rotom W is good for dealing with Talonflame, Rotom-Heat, Garchomp, and Tyranitar. And Will-o-wisp is just icing on the cake
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