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Old 11-26-2013, 01:10 PM   #1
Mercutio
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Tainted Legacy - Lostprophets and Baby rape

So Ian Watkins is going to hell.

Obviously this is a disgusting crime in the eyes of most people and he personally is going to live in infamy for many years. But he was part of a reasonably successful rock band that had a large number of fans at one point.

Should radio and television stations still play Lostprophets?

This is separate from debates about whether you liked the band n the first place. I liked some of their stuff and I don't think I'll stop listening to it, but I wonder how many previous fans will leave it alone.
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Old 11-26-2013, 01:34 PM   #2
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Short version; yes. Playing their music does nothing to help Ian Watkins sitting in his cell, nor does it indicate any support for (or indeed say anything at all about) him, other than "oh hey nice music".

Him being a pedophile has precisely sod all to do with his music, so I see no reason why one thing should effect the other in any way, shape or form.

EDIT the first: It appears that basically all official LostProphets videos on youtube have had the comments disabled. This is probably wise.
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Old 11-26-2013, 01:55 PM   #3
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I remember having a similar conversation with my godmother many years ago. The artist in question was Michael Jackson and the crime was his alleged statutory rape of a Neverland guest. This was around 1992 or so, back when Free Willy (which features a Michael Jackson insert song) had just come out. Little Talon was quick to parrot what he'd heard from other people -- friends, classmates, the media, maybe even my parents -- but I'll never forget what my godmother said. She told me that an artist's art (and the quality of said art) and an artist's personal life are two distinct entities to be judged separately by each and every one of us. That you can hate the artist but still find beauty in the art.

For over twenty years I've pondered that claim. And my thinking, for myself at least, is that while I can enjoy the art separate from the artist most times, I can't do it every time. Also, while I can do it to at least some degree, it's always better for me to discover good art by a good person than it is to discover good art by a bad person.

Some examples that come to mind ...
  • Can you enjoy 30 Rock even though Tracy Morgan is homophobic?
  • Can you enjoy Mel Gibson's older films even though he's anti-Semitic?
  • Can you enjoy Tom Cruise's or John Travolta's earlier films even though they're Sci3n7ologists?
  • Can you enjoy Paul Reubens' Pee-Wee Herman even though he's masturbated in public?
  • Can you enjoy Chris Brown's music even though he beat Rihanna?
  • Can you enjoy Michael Richards' Kosmo Kramer even though he's racist towards black people?
I'm sure that not everyone will answer these questions the same way. Some people are more sensitive about one crime or hostility than another. Some people find it less easy to enjoy music than to enjoy film or television when it comes to bad people being involved in the making of that piece. Some people hold role models for children to a different standard than they hold role models for the rest of us.

So while you've focused the question in very specifically on this one band member and this one heinous crime, I do think that philosophically it deals with a larger, more general issue of our (in)ability to enjoy a good thing once we know that the person who made it isn't very good.
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Old 11-26-2013, 02:30 PM   #4
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Divorcing the artist and art is definitely a skill. Although it isn't explicitly restricted to art, either. When deriving the Schrodinger equation, one has to marvel at the insight of Schrodinger in how deftly clever it is, but I can't help but think about how when Schrodinger was developing it, he was banging the brains out of his assistant's wife. Similarly, I can admire Barry Bonds' baseball accomplishments but they're soured not by his steroid connection, but that his personality and diva-lifestyle prevented the San Francisco Giants from ever being a championship-winning organization. As bright as his star was, once the Giants moved past him, they entered their golden age of baseball.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:50 PM   #5
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I cant listen to it anymore. Great music.. but it is completely tainted by his actions. His actions are not comparable to a homophobe, or an anti Semitic. His actions are among the worst things you can do to another human being. The only saving grace in all of this is that these children will hopefully not remember a single thing about these occurrences, and another sick, and perverted person is off the streets for good.
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Old 11-26-2013, 07:04 PM   #6
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I cant listen to it anymore. Great music.. but it is completely tainted by his actions.
How so? His music hasn't changed at all; this whole thing hasn't thrown off the melody or altered the lyrics. The music one listens to is surely chosen based on its musical merits, nothing else. Similarly for any form of artistic expression. Orson Scott Card is a terrible person but he writes good books, whilst Patrick Stewart is an excellent human being but that doesn't redeem the X-men films one jot.

Let me ask you this question; if someone who saves hundreds of lives on a daily basis released a song that was irredeemably awful (imagine Rebecca Black with the history of Gandhi), would you choose to listen to it purely because they were a good person? To my mind that's exactly the same question; if the artist being a truly good person wouldn't determine whether you listen to bad music, why should the artist being a truly bad person determine whether you listen to good music?
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Old 11-28-2013, 12:28 PM   #7
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How so? His music hasn't changed at all; this whole thing hasn't thrown off the melody or altered the lyrics. The music one listens to is surely chosen based on its musical merits, nothing else. Similarly for any form of artistic expression. Orson Scott Card is a terrible person but he writes good books, whilst Patrick Stewart is an excellent human being but that doesn't redeem the X-men films one jot.

Let me ask you this question; if someone who saves hundreds of lives on a daily basis released a song that was irredeemably awful (imagine Rebecca Black with the history of Gandhi), would you choose to listen to it purely because they were a good person? To my mind that's exactly the same question; if the artist being a truly good person wouldn't determine whether you listen to bad music, why should the artist being a truly bad person determine whether you listen to good music?
its a lot more simple than that for me. I hear his voice, and it makes me cringe. I cannot remove his voice from the song and just make it a piece of art that will stand in the realm of time. Music for me has to have some meaning relating back to the artist. Its a personal feeling really. I'm more forgiving of Chris Brown's actions because he appologized realized what he did wrong in a moment irrational of anger, and Rihanna (the person affected) forgave him, and moved on.
This fellow over here though... he did something unforgivable, and that in itself changes my perspective of his music, and makes it extremely enjoyable to my ears. My family has been afflicted by child abuse in the past (not toward me), so it is something that hits home for me.
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Old 11-28-2013, 01:27 PM   #8
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For me, the question is really just a reiteration of the age old "Would you judge a child by their parent's deeds", so I can't say I think that this should affect the music in any way. It's similar to how I think my characters shouldn't have to suffer for having a lazy ass like me for their creator.

On the other hand I have no idea who this band(?) is and I've never heard their music (as far as I know) and I don't really pay attention to the people behind the music in general anyways.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 11-28-2013, 02:48 PM   #9
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For me, the question is really just a reiteration of the age old "Would you judge a child by their parent's deeds", so I can't say I think that this should affect the music in any way. It's similar to how I think my characters shouldn't have to suffer for having a lazy ass like me for their creator.

On the other hand I have no idea who this band(?) is and I've never heard their music (as far as I know) and I don't really pay attention to the people behind the music in general anyways.
thing is... i knew who the band was... i followed the music for more than a decade... then this comes to light... it changes everything for me.
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Old 11-28-2013, 09:12 PM   #10
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Why the hell not as long as the music is good and the guy doesn't get any money from it at all.
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Old 11-28-2013, 09:51 PM   #11
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Sometimes there's no good answer for a question like that. It simply is the way it is. He can't help it if he gets a visceral, insuppressible negative response towards hearing the band's music or that man's voice now that he knows what he's done. You may as well ask "why the hell not as long as the music is good" of a woman who was raped by a band's lead singer. Not that EmeraldGoblin is claiming such a history: I'm just saying you may as well ask such a person the same question. Sometimes people just can't turn a blind eye to the evil that the artist committed. When that happens, it becomes impossible for them to enjoy the work.
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Old 11-28-2013, 09:55 PM   #12
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thing is... i knew who the band was... i followed the music for more than a decade... then this comes to light... it changes everything for me.
Mmm, I have to say I understand this. When you've grown close to something and invested much of your time to it, something like this taints the entire experience. Unfortunate, but true. ;__;
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 11-28-2013, 10:25 PM   #13
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Sometimes there's no good answer for a question like that. It simply is the way it is. He can't help it if he gets a visceral, insuppressible negative response towards hearing the band's music or that man's voice now that he knows what he's done. You may as well ask "why the hell not as long as the music is good" of a woman who was raped by a band's lead singer. Not that EmeraldGoblin is claiming such a history: I'm just saying you may as well ask such a person the same question. Sometimes people just can't turn a blind eye to the evil that the artist committed. When that happens, it becomes impossible for them to enjoy the work.
Even if I agree with you, you have to admit that being the victim of the crime and thinking negatively of someone is much, much different than thinking negatively of someone after hearing about a crime.
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Old 11-28-2013, 11:08 PM   #14
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Not sure you get how "you may as well [verb]" constructions tend to work. No one's intending hyperbole by them. The idea is that there's no end difference between A and B.

Anyway, yes, duh, being the rape victim is different from being the person who only heard about the rape. But the end effect is the same for many, EG clearly included.
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Old 11-30-2013, 08:13 PM   #15
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Holy shit. What the fuck.

I used to quite enjoy Lostprophets music. Now I'm just disgusted. I don't think I'll be able to listen to their songs anymore, quite honestly. Should radio stations stop playing their music? I don't know. One local station has refused to play Chris Brown since the Rihanna incident, and I was behind that, so I suppose perhaps it would be for the best. They don't deserve the attention anymore, unfortunately for the band members who were unaware of this shit, though I have to question just how unaware they truly were.
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Old 12-01-2013, 05:58 AM   #16
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The band has posted about it on Facebook:

"Earlier this week, we learned that the allegations of child sexual abuse against Ian were true, and that he would not be contesting them in court. Until then, we found them extremely difficult to believe and had hoped it was all a mistake. Sadly, the true extent of his appalling behaviour is now impossible to deny.

Many of you understandably want to know if we knew what Ian was doing. To be clear: We did not. We knew that Ian was a difficult character. Our personal relationships with him had deteriorated in recent years to a point that working together was a constant, miserable challenge. But despite his battles with drugs, his egotistic behaviour, and the resulting fractures and frustrations within our band, we never imagined him capable of behaviour of the type he has now admitted.

We are heartbroken, angry, and disgusted at what has been revealed. This is something that will haunt us for the rest of our lives. Being in a band has always been a labour of love and a platform to inspire people, not to take advantage of them. It's still hard to believe this is happening and that someone we were once so close to has destroyed so many lives, lying every step of the way.
Our hearts go out to Ian's family, the fans and friends he betrayed, and most importantly, the victims of his crimes and others like them. We hope for justice, but also that Ian will truly take responsibility for what he's done. We would urge any other victims to contact the authorities.

Jamie, Lee, Luke, Mike and Stu"

They also formally disbanded on October 1st of this year.
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