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Old 12-10-2014, 06:56 PM   #3626
Talon87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myles Fowl II View Post
Why we should do away with Smeargle altogether

We banned Moody because of how exploitable it was. The above is ten fucking goddamn times worse. The only hope of beating this that you have is having something that can OHKO Durant (And it probably has a sash anyway). And notice how Acupressure picked up evasion boosts there? If we're going to have Evasion Clause, do away with that part of Acupressure. Because it becomes luck based as hell. "Oh hey, I got really lucky, now I have an advantage over you in that I have a boost you can't get."

tl;dr What happened in the above match should not be a thing and if you do it you're a despicable piece of shit and I hate you.
This is four years old. Literally.* "Welcome to 2010, when people paired Entrainment Durant and Calm Mind Chandelure in Showdown's OU DW tier while it was allowed and wrecked people for a few months until just about everyone was familiar with the gimmick at which point the trolls migrated over to some new gimmick." You are showing us nothing new other than Smeargle and Mega Sceptile splitting the workload that was previously shouldered by Chandelure alone.

The moral of the story is, the moment a Durant uses Entrainment on you, you switch out. You don't stay put. You stayed put. Quote unquote, "You deserved to lose." It sucks to lose to this gimmick the first time it happens, but you should never lose to it again.

I think the more problematic thing is how easily you raged out. You basically gave the troll exactly what he wanted. Don't do this.

* The strategy is as old as BW1, but come to think of it it can't be 4 years old on Showdown for the obvious reason of Showdown not being 4 years old yet. Meh. Point is, it's as old as Gen 5.
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Old 12-10-2014, 07:02 PM   #3627
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Yeah Im sorry I just have a burning fiery hatred for Smeargle after today with how much bullshit its capable of.
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Old 12-10-2014, 07:06 PM   #3628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myles Fowl II View Post
Yeah Im sorry I just have a burning fiery hatred for Smeargle after today with how much bullshit its capable of.
it's almost as if being able to do anything it wants is smeargle's entire shtick
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In Mother 3 Swampy was Flint and you were Hinawa. You two were a wonderful couple. Icarus was your dog, and Toy and I were your twin sons. Well, until a dinosaur impaled you through the heart. So yes, where is he!?
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Old 12-10-2014, 07:11 PM   #3629
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As a note: When Sand Veil and Snow Cloak were being discussed Acupressure was also brought up because it could raise Evasion, but it wasn't banned for whatever reason (probably because its super luck based and incredibly unlikely to work).
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Old 12-10-2014, 07:20 PM   #3630
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Mega Glalie doing in Random Battle what fans wanted it to do in OU.
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Old 12-10-2014, 07:26 PM   #3631
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>super unlikely to work
Literally sitting in batle with 3x evasion right now. Happened before Speed rose at all.
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Old 12-10-2014, 07:33 PM   #3632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myles Fowl II View Post
>super unlikely to work
Literally sitting in batle with 3x evasion right now. Happened before Speed rose at all.
Sorry, but if you think two points of data can be extrapolated to imply that a statistical anomaly isn't one than you are horribly mistaken.

It can happen, yes. But that doesn't mean it will always happen. Just thank your lucky stars/curse those damned wizards that you managed this specific combination of stat raises. If you can consistantly pull them then maybe we can discuss the potential issues with Acupressure.
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In Mother 3 Swampy was Flint and you were Hinawa. You two were a wonderful couple. Icarus was your dog, and Toy and I were your twin sons. Well, until a dinosaur impaled you through the heart. So yes, where is he!?
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Old 12-10-2014, 07:41 PM   #3633
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Let's just say that in many cases the first stat to rise was Evasion. And honestly it doesnt matter because with 30+ turns to set up if you DONT get Evasion in some degree its a shock.
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Old 12-10-2014, 07:44 PM   #3634
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If your opponent is letting you take 30+ turns to set up they deserve to lose.
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In Mother 3 Swampy was Flint and you were Hinawa. You two were a wonderful couple. Icarus was your dog, and Toy and I were your twin sons. Well, until a dinosaur impaled you through the heart. So yes, where is he!?
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Old 12-10-2014, 07:47 PM   #3635
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The thing is if they take Durant's switch as set up time, then theyre truanted with a valuable boost when Smeargle comes out. With the "I dont want to lose this boost" mentality, a Mean Look seals the deal and theyre in for the long haul.
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Old 12-10-2014, 09:06 PM   #3636
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If you use Durant's switch out as set up time, then you messed up despite how you should know better, but if you didn't know, now you should never lose to it again. There's a reason knowing the metagame inside and out, including gimmicks, is large part of the game.
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Old 12-10-2014, 11:27 PM   #3637
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Yeah, this is the kind of strategy that people lose to one time. If you switch out after Durant hits you with Entrainment, you've broken the whole setup. This is not "ten times worse than Moody."
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Old 12-11-2014, 08:48 PM   #3638
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Why be greedy when one Calm Mind ruins their day?
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Old 12-13-2014, 08:12 AM   #3639
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Haven't had many opportunities to play recently, and when I have done I've oscillated between wins and losses, the net result being that I haven't moved up the ladder much at all. Not sure if bad luck, ladder still being tougher in the 1600s than it used to be, or what. But in any event ...

Shaymin vs. Bronzong-Mega Manectric core (Random Battle, 35 turns)

This was a close battle for a good 30 turns. Pretty proud of how I managed to achieve the win (even if there was some admitted help from Serene Grace) given that otherwise his team held an advantage over mine. (Still can't believe that Mega Manectric outspeeds a Choice Scarfed Typhlosion but whatever ...)
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Old 12-14-2014, 07:25 PM   #3640
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Altaria

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Old 12-15-2014, 04:26 PM   #3641
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In other news:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serebii
The 2015 Video Game Championship Rules have been announced by The Pokémon Company. These rules will be in all Regional, Nationals, Premier Challenges and finally Worlds throughout 2015. The rules are as follows
  • Only Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire Game Cards or downloadable versions are permitted for use.
  • The battle format is Double Battle
  • Players may use Pokémon from the National Pokédex, from No. 001–719, that are caught in the game, transferred from a previous Pokémon title (e.g. X & Y), or received at an official event or distribution
  • The following Pokémon may not be on a player's team: o 150 – Mewtwo, 151 – Mew, 249 – Lugia, 250 – Ho-Oh, 251 – Celebi, 382 – Kyogre, 383 – Groudon, 384 – Rayquaza, 385 – Jirachi, 386 – Deoxys, 483 – Dialga, 484 – Palkia, 487 – Giratina, 489 – Phione, 490 – Manaphy, 491 – Darkrai, 492 – Shaymin, 493 – Arceus, 494 – Victini, 643 – Reshiram, 644 – Zekrom, 646 – Kyurem, 647 – Keldeo, 648 – Meloetta, 649 – Genesect, 716 – Xerneas, 717 – Yveltal, 718 – Zygarde, 719 – Diancie
  • Pokémon must be placed in the Battle Box.
  • Pokémon are allowed to Mega Evolve.
  • Pokémon may not hold the item Soul Dew.
  • Pokémon above Level 50 are permitted, but they are auto-leveled down to 50 for the duration of battle.
  • Players may use Pokémon with Hidden Abilities.
  • Players may use items that have been officially released via Pokémon X, Pokémon Y, Pokémon Omega Ruby, Pokémon Alpha Sapphire, the Pokémon Global Link, or an official event or promotion.
  • The Pokémon must have the Blue Pentagon proving that it was caught or hatched in Pokémon X, Y, Omega Ruby or Alpha Sapphire
Was looking forward to a Hoenn Dex only VGC 2015 where Ninetails would be the only legal weather setter but that wasn't meant to be.
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Old 12-15-2014, 05:35 PM   #3642
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I was really hoping for a Hoenn Dex meta, but I suppose with the availability of things that aren't super duper threatened by Megamence in the National Dex, it'll probably be a more interesting meta.

EDIT: Apparently the ORAS Doubles ladder has been playing under 2015 rules since the game came out and this is what top 12 usage looks like. It's interesting to see that basically the only pre-XY threat that made a comeback is Lando-T.
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Old 12-15-2014, 06:46 PM   #3643
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I was really hoping for a Hoenn Dex meta, but I suppose with the availability of things that aren't super duper threatened by Megamence in the National Dex, it'll probably be a more interesting meta.
Before playing in VGC 2014, I would have disagreed with this view. ("All 'mons or bust! ") After having played in VGC 2014, I quite agree with it.

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EDIT: Apparently the ORAS Doubles ladder has been playing under 2015 rules since the game came out and this is what top 12 usage looks like. It's interesting to see that basically the only pre-XY threat that made a comeback is Lando-T.
I see that Gebebo is No.1 on the ladder currently.

As for the creatures, I am truly surprised to see Mega Kangaskhan atop the list. Of all the megas you could run, players are opting to run Mega Kangaskhan?

Zapdos and Amoongus were extremely popular in previous years. Might want to amend that Landorus-T statement as a result. Still, I see what you're trying to say. I'd come at it like this: aside from Landorus and Sylveon, every creature on that list was already popular in VGC 2014.
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Old 12-15-2014, 06:55 PM   #3644
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I though Zappy and Amoongus were both VGC 2014 legal?

The thing I'm most surprised about is that Cress and the other Genies, who ran rampant in VGC2013 and the BW VGC respectively, have been thrown to the wayside comparatively. Most people were dreading their return but it seems that the meta has shifted so much that they fail to be as relevant as they used to be. I suppose it was always sort of in the stars, considering the more open format of Smogon Doubles didn't really see them as the top-tier threats they used to be.
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Old 12-15-2014, 07:35 PM   #3645
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Way too early to see what's going to come up. Not sure where Cress is, though I suspect something to do with Aegislash. Mega Kangaskhan is only truly popular because people know how to use it from last year
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Old 12-15-2014, 07:40 PM   #3646
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I might give this meta a shot and try something a little more conventional to see if I can even get close to laddering once the ladder goes live.
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Old 12-15-2014, 08:01 PM   #3647
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I plan to start on the ladder with a Regigigas Mega Audino combo because lolwynaut
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Old 12-15-2014, 08:52 PM   #3648
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>All pokemon allowed so long as Gen 6 born
Time for this Grinch to set to work, then! Now, who should I use...
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Old 12-15-2014, 09:14 PM   #3649
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Quote:
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I though Zappy and Amoongus were both VGC 2014 legal?
They were, but your choice of words insinuates that they were not VGC threats prior to XY. ("[...] the only pre-XY threat that made a comeback is [...]") Sorry for what turns out to have been unintended pedantry; only spoke up just in case you overlooked the fact that Amoongus was very, very much so relevant in BW VGC.

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The thing I'm most surprised about is that Cress and the other Genies, who ran rampant in VGC2013 and the BW VGC respectively, have been thrown to the wayside comparatively. Most people were dreading their return but it seems that the meta has shifted so much that they fail to be as relevant as they used to be. I suppose it was always sort of in the stars, considering the more open format of Smogon Doubles didn't really see them as the top-tier threats they used to be.
Nothing's written in stone just yet. This is all very early stuff. The site is currently down (and will be for the next two hours) for maintenance, so I can't re-check anything, but from what I saw at the time when I replied to your post, it looked like 1) the list of most commonly used Pokémon accounted for every single registered player and not just the top n% and 2) the top chunk of the ladder was dominated by Japan. Apparently the latter is usually the case, but that doesn't change the fact of what I'm about to say: the Japanese meta doesn't necessarily reflect the Western meta nor the Worlds meta. If the list of creatures can be filtered to only show those from players whose score is above a certain threshold, then I'd like to try that out next time I can and to see what creatures are at the top of the list then.

Thing is, Smogon's usage stats for Smogon Doubles in November 2014 suggests that the list would not be significantly different if we restricted for inept players. Because the 1825 usage stats point to Mega Kangaskhan, Talonflame, Aegislash, and most of the others we saw in the game pak's ladder as being the big heavyweights of the format. Kind of crazy.

Side note: Smogon has apparently restricted non-staff access to old usage stat logs. Not sure when or why this went into effect, though regarding the latter I would certainly speculate that it has something to do with suspect test discussions. I'll withhold further judgment until I see to what extent, if any, the old logs have been removed from the forum. For now, I'll chalk the change up to being a security measure or even more simply that they placed all of the old logs in a new directory.
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Old 12-16-2014, 12:07 PM   #3650
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As you might imagine, people have jumped right on the VGC2015 bandwagon and are already battling. Here's a big compilation of some VGC matches that were held a couple days back. I know it's still early but I feel like a number of the teams in here are pretty representative of the kinds of threats we'll be seeing.
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