UPNetwork  

Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > Debate

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-03-2016, 07:49 PM   #1401
deoxys
Fog Badge
 
deoxys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,513
The fuck, Teddy, what happened to trying to contest the convention, you [redacted]
deoxys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2016, 07:55 PM   #1402
Miror
Marsh Badge
 
Miror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by deoxys View Post
The fuck, Teddy, what happened to trying to contest the convention, you [redacted]
Yeah I'm pretty surprised, I fully expected him to be in for the long haul. Guess he's cutting his losses early and preparing for the next election.
__________________
Miror is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2016, 07:58 PM   #1403
Zelphon
Caffeinated
 
Zelphon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Bed
Posts: 2,788
Send a message via Skype™ to Zelphon
So who shall win: American Hitler, Discount Obama or Mysterious Teabag?
__________________
Life, but a series of paths and flows
Down many one can go
May yours run smoothly and be soft to your feet

Zelphon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2016, 08:03 PM   #1404
deoxys
Fog Badge
 
deoxys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,513
Can we just either not have an election or quickly rescind the twenty-second amendment?

I can't wait until the Onion article... "'What The Fucking Fuck' Area Man Screams Upon Trump Nomination"
deoxys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2016, 08:28 PM   #1405
Heather
Naga's Voice
 
Heather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: somewhere gay idk
Posts: 3,279
I'm just grateful that Cruz is no longer a possibility. I know he didn't have much of a chance to do everything I feared, but a chance at a man singlehandedly destroying my future before it started was not one I wanted to entertain.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveTheFishGuy View Post
Quoth the Honchkrow (nevermore!).
Fizzy Member Post: Catherine Park
Heather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2016, 08:33 PM   #1406
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
What an amazing world this can be.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2016, 08:37 PM   #1407
deoxys
Fog Badge
 
deoxys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,513
Thanks for voting, Talon.
deoxys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2016, 08:38 PM   #1408
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Insert your best gif of Emperor Palpatine Hillary Clinton cackling maniacally here.

Cruz pulling out when a brokered convention was so obvious to the people is highly suspicious. Reeks of "all according to plan " with the Powers That Be engineering a Clinton presidency. Family friend Trump runs as a faux Republican and snaps the party in two ... weasel Cruz who is easily bought off was easily bought off to pretend to run as Trump's in-house nemesis ... pulls out to ensure matchup is Odious Trump-icature vs. Clinton, ensures Clinton will win ...

*shrug* Maybe that's too much tin foil talking. I dunno. It just seems really, really strange that he'd sabotage Kasich's and Romney's plans at this juncture when not but one week ago he was saying how he'd stay out of WA and OR if Kasich would agree to stay out of IN.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2016, 08:44 PM   #1409
deoxys
Fog Badge
 
deoxys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,513
I literally just had the exact same conversation with my parents. It's pretty tin foily cuckoo, but stranger things have happened, so...?
deoxys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2016, 08:58 PM   #1410
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Insert your best gif of Emperor Palpatine Hillary Clinton cackling maniacally here.
Have other people made this connection? I mean seeing Hillary's pictures as of late, it really looks like her face could melt off into the visage of White Satan, deformed Palpatine or that werewolf Michael Jackson turned into during Thriller.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Cruz pulling out when a brokered convention was so obvious to the people is highly suspicious. Reeks of "all according to plan " with the Powers That Be engineering a Clinton presidency. Family friend Trump runs as a faux Republican and snaps the party in two ... weasel Cruz who is easily bought off was easily bought off to pretend to run as Trump's in-house nemesis ... pulls out to ensure matchup is Odious Trump-icature vs. Clinton, ensures Clinton will win ...

*shrug* Maybe that's too much tin foil talking. I dunno. It just seems really, really strange that he'd sabotage Kasich's and Romney's plans at this juncture when not but one week ago he was saying how he'd stay out of WA and OR if Kasich would agree to stay out of IN.
Yeah, that's definitely tin foil. Cruz might by a nutter butter, but he's true to himself and true to his brand of crazy neo-conservatism. He wouldn't support Hillary in any way...no when similar Tea Partiers did whatever possible to block Obama's policies and allies during his presidency.

Likely, the RNC ops told Cruz a brokered convention would likely lead to a Democratic win, so he long planned on a forfeit if Trump ever came close to the delegate target. By contrast, I expect Bernie Sanders to run third party if he doesn't get the Democratic nomination.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2016, 09:11 PM   #1411
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
He can't though. Too many liberals would vote strategically to avoid a Trump presidency. (For evidence of that, look no farther than this very thread.) Neither party can afford to in-fight. Both parties' runners-up require it to be a four-way race for President for them to willingly participate.

The only way Bernie Sanders can run as an Independent is if John Kasich, Mitt Romney, or some other establishment Republican insists on staying in this and running as a New Republican. "Donald Trump has taken our party hostage," etc etc, "we have to form a daughter party in order to carry on the torch that Abe lit."
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2016, 09:22 PM   #1412
deoxys
Fog Badge
 
deoxys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,513
No. Likely what happened is Cruz is doing Kasich a favor by dropping out as most of the upcoming states lean liberal or moderate anyway. Cruz wouldn't have had a chance in hell. By narrowing it to Trump and Kasich, Kasich actually stands to have a chance at stealing some delegates to lead to that oh-so-coveted brokered convention. I imagine Kasich will perform well in Oregon and California, honestly, to name a few. Trump still needs roughly 200 delegates for first ballot victory. The odds have swept to being in his favor for a poised nomination, but Kasich is the only one left who can stop that. Hahahahahaha hahahahahaha shit, sorry, that statement just made me laugh :')

Bernie won't run third party. Will not happen. He has already said he will support Hillary if he didn't get it. Simple and clean as that. The man changed his whole brand from Independent to Democrat, going back would not be a good luck, though I'm not sure he'd have anything left to lose.

EDIT
Fun little fact: 538 had Hillary at a 90% probability of winning Indiana going into today.

But it's totally not Nate Silver, you guys, those are just the numbers he has to work with!

Last edited by deoxys; 05-03-2016 at 09:33 PM.
deoxys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2016, 09:31 PM   #1413
Jerichi
プラスチック♡ラブ
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,766
I want to get off Mr. Trump's Wild Ride.
__________________


私のことを消して本気で愛さないで 恋なんてただのゲーム 楽しめばそれでいい
閉ざした心を飾る 派手なドレスも靴も 孤独の友達

asbwffb

[jerichi]
Jerichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2016, 09:33 PM   #1414
Jerichi
プラスチック♡ラブ
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,766
And in an Onion-style Headline, "Yes, John Kasich is Still Running for President"

HuffPo, keepin' it real.
__________________


私のことを消して本気で愛さないで 恋なんてただのゲーム 楽しめばそれでいい
閉ざした心を飾る 派手なドレスも靴も 孤独の友達

asbwffb

[jerichi]
Jerichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2016, 09:34 PM   #1415
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
Quote:
Originally Posted by deoxys View Post
No. Likely what happened is Cruz is doing Kasich a favor by dropping out as most of the upcoming states lean liberal or moderate anyway. Cruz wouldn't have had a chance in hell. By narrowing it to Trump and Kasich, Kasich actually stands to have a chance at stealing some delegates to lead to that oh-so-coveted brokered convention. I imagine Kasich will perform well in Oregon and California, honestly, to name a few. Trump still needs roughly 200 delegates for first ballot victory. The odds have swept to being in his favor for a poised nomination, but Kasich is the only one left who can stop that. Hahahahahaha hahahahahaha shit, sorry, that statement just made me laugh :')
This doesn't make much sense to me. Cruz is a much better candidate, overall, than Kaisch. Even in states where Cruz is weak I would expect his absolute numbers to exceed Kasich, and adding the two together isn't going to overcome Trump. It makes more sense for Kasich to drop out and Cruz to stay in the race if a brokered convention is the deal - remember that Mitt Romney is still, technically a candidate. So if Cruz's objective is to baton pass to Romney to avoid a Trump candidacy, this is a very questionable move.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deoxys View Post
Bernie won't run third party. Will not happen. He has already said he will support Hillary if he didn't get it. Simple and clean as that. The man changed his whole brand from Independent to Democrat, going back would not be a good luck, though I'm not sure he'd have anything left to lose.
I would lose total respect for Sanders if he supports Clinton. The whole crux of his campaign is he's anti-establishment, so he can't ideologically align himself with the establishment against another anti-establishment candidate.

I mean, that's a horrible message for his supporters to swallow if he actually does go out and support Clinton. He should, at minimum, abstain from the race and not endorse anyone.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2016, 10:40 PM   #1416
satosere
Cascade Badge
 
satosere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: my house
Posts: 331
I'm just so stunned that it was Cruz and not Kasich.

My mom literally cried when he announced it :'(
__________________
satosere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2016, 12:08 AM   #1417
deoxys
Fog Badge
 
deoxys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,513
It's fantastic that he won Indiana, but this is why Bernie can't win. I'm sorry to be a defeatist realist, it's just they way it is. These are the numbers he would need to pull the rest of the election just to catch up to Hillary. I believe he could come up short of her by maybe 150 delegates by the end, but it's not likely. Chances are he will lose NJ, Kentucky, and California.

But regardless: If you still want to vote for Bernie then god dammit, vote for him!


deoxys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2016, 12:22 AM   #1418
Rangeet
Foot, meet mouth.
 
Rangeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Beyond the Wall
Posts: 4,362
Send a message via MSN to Rangeet Send a message via Skype™ to Rangeet
Bernie has already said he will have a contested convention. If he wins California solidly, he will have more than enough ammo for that.
__________________
Spoiler: show
Rangeet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2016, 01:00 AM   #1419
Miror
Marsh Badge
 
Miror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,755
It's mostly going to come down to swaying the 500~ superdelegates already backing Clinton, given that she only needs around 180 more delegates from whatever source to clinch the nomination currently with both the pledged delegates and superdelegates she has. Sanders also should go after the 200 or so superdelegates that have yet to back either candidate. Obviously having around equal or more pledged delegates would aid in that, but it would require the massive sorts of wins as mentioned earlier, which seem pretty unlikely.
__________________
Miror is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2016, 01:41 AM   #1420
Selena
Aroma Lady
 
Selena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post

I would lose total respect for Sanders if he supports Clinton. The whole crux of his campaign is he's anti-establishment, so he can't ideologically align himself with the establishment against another anti-establishment candidate.

I mean, that's a horrible message for his supporters to swallow if he actually does go out and support Clinton. He should, at minimum, abstain from the race and not endorse anyone.
Good news, he actually stated that Hillary Clinton needs to earn the vote's of his followers, basically saying that they voted for him because of his policies, not for who he is and that realistically he can't ask them to vote for something they don't believe in.
__________________
Trainer level 3: 53 KO \\ 187 TP \\ 37.5 SP
21 win 29 loss 1 draw (17/21/1 Without DQ)

B- grade ref.
Quote:
Originally Posted by empoleon dynamite View Post
Shouldn’t the Hoff be doing something if he’s still around? I have strict rules about leaving the pool, and I’m sure vanishing the pool out of existence breaks those rules in some way :P
Selena is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2016, 04:02 AM   #1421
Concept
Archbishop of Banterbury
 
Concept's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Nipple-Hunting with Elsie and Kairne
Posts: 7,030
Send a message via Skype™ to Concept
Sanders might've entertained a third party run if Congress were Democrat controlled, but not whilst it's Republican. In the case that no-one gets an outright majority of the electoral college (not just the most votes, but more than half) Congress chooses the President from the three most successful candidates. At this point, any serious third party run means President Trump even if he somehow came in third behind Clinton and Sanders in the general.

Can't say I'm super upset about Cruz backing out, he's arguably worse than Trump.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTerry
What can the harvest hope for, if not the care of the reaper man?
Concept is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2016, 08:24 AM   #1422
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Concept View Post
Sanders might've entertained a third party run if Congress were Democrat controlled, but not whilst it's Republican. In the case that no-one gets an outright majority of the electoral college (not just the most votes, but more than half) Congress chooses the President from the three most successful candidates. At this point, any serious third party run means President Trump even if he somehow came in third behind Clinton and Sanders in the general.
Interesting angle that most of us Americans don't consider, so thanks for that. But I think you're wrong about something. If Sanders did run as a third-party candidate, he would never do so for the reason you've outlined. And that's because Capitol Hill is in Hillary Clinton's pocket. She's the insider who's wined and dined with these fat cats for decades. He's the crazy old uncle that no one ever took seriously until 2015. And even taking him seriously now, many on the Hill distance themselves from Uncle Bernie the same way (though not to the same extent, or with the same malice) that they distance themselves from Ted Cruz. They don't owe Sanders any favors. And they don't want to owe Sanders any favors -- giving Sanders anything he wants would, for many of these politicians on Capitol Hill, mean the end of their careers. He's too far left for them to want to support. And he's too shunned/excluded to have any back-door dealings with them.

Your angle is interesting, but it wouldn't take us where I think you think it would. If this ends up being a three-way race between Trump, Clinton, and Sanders and it ends up going to Capitol Hill to decide, I can guarantee you that it'll end with Hillary Clinton being sworn in as President. The only way it humanly, possibly couldn't end that way, and would instead end with a Sanders presidency, would be if by some miracle the numbers ended up being 30% Trump (because 70% of the nation refuses to vote for him), 36% Sanders, and 34% Clinton. And Sanders could go to Capitol Hill and be like, "Not only have the American people unanimously voted against the Donald, but they've also rallied behind me in-party. I deserve your nomination." And I'd still see them spinning it as, "Well no, Bernie, we don't agree with your interpretation of the math. You're right about 70% of the country rejecting Donald, but you could also just as easily say that 64% of the country rejected you! Hillary is the centrist candidate in this three-way, surrounded by you two on either pole. So clearly, we're going to go with the centrist in order to try and appease both sides of the electorate as much as possible. HILLARY WINS!"
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2016, 09:46 AM   #1423
Concept
Archbishop of Banterbury
 
Concept's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Nipple-Hunting with Elsie and Kairne
Posts: 7,030
Send a message via Skype™ to Concept
I know Trump is unpopular with much of the GOP and Hilary is the textbook establishment candidate in this race, but would a Republican controlled Congress choose her over Trump if it comes to an election where neither wins an outright majority? Reading between the lines of Bloomberg's decision not to run I got the impression that he'd rather let a mediocre Clinton beat Trump in a two way race than risk splitting a three way race and having Congress hand it to Trump, and suspect Sanders would make the same calculation.

What I could potentially see happening is a mainstream Republican candidate, having failed to stop Trump running off with the party nomination, standing as a "third party" candidate. Someone like Mitt Romney for example might have both the public profile and resources to stop either Clinton or Trump winning the election outright and sufficient pull with a Republican Congress to beat both at a vote there. And tbh with electoral maths as it is, running two very different GOP candidates - one a maverick outsider on the official ticket, one an establishment mainstay on an independent ticket - probably gives the GOP the best chance at stopping Clinton walking off with it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTerry
What can the harvest hope for, if not the care of the reaper man?
Concept is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2016, 10:06 AM   #1424
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Concept View Post
I know Trump is unpopular with much of the GOP and Hilary is the textbook establishment candidate in this race, but would a Republican controlled Congress choose her over Trump if it comes to an election where neither wins an outright majority? Reading between the lines of Bloomberg's decision not to run I got the impression that he'd rather let a mediocre Clinton beat Trump in a two way race than risk splitting a three way race and having Congress hand it to Trump, and suspect Sanders would make the same calculation.
Trump doesn't command much in the way of party loyalty. Many see him as a RINO, putting aside theories about ulterior agendas. Cruz is similar in that many Republicans don't really see the Tea Party as being "true Republicans," but a fringe element that really ought to be spun off into their own separate thing. (But they didn't force the issue because hey, let's face it: the Tea Party movement was doing establishment Republicans more favors than disfavors up until now.) But Trump is a rather extreme case. He's a phony Christian. He's a phony fiscal conservative. He's phony on a great many Republican platforms.

That stated, this could change in the coming weeks. The people who run the Republican convention are already calling on establishment Republicans to pledge their support of Donald Trump. This is the moment of truth. Will they or won't they?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Concept View Post
What I could potentially see happening is a mainstream Republican candidate, having failed to stop Trump running off with the party nomination, standing as a "third party" candidate. Someone like Mitt Romney for example might have both the public profile and resources to stop either Clinton or Trump winning the election outright and sufficient pull with a Republican Congress to beat both at a vote there. And tbh with electoral maths as it is, running two very different GOP candidates - one a maverick outsider on the official ticket, one an establishment mainstay on an independent ticket - probably gives the GOP the best chance at stopping Clinton walking off with it.
Oh, I thought you were focused on Sanders. If your vision of the three-way is Trump-Romney-Clinton, then it's certainly possible that Romney would become President but holy hell is that a risky gamble if you're a Clinton-hating Republican. You can't just make it be that Clinton falls short of 50% of the vote -- you'd have to ensure she's at least in 2nd place. Otherwise you create civil war civil bitching like what we saw in 2000 when Gore won the popular vote and should have won the electoral vote but got screwed out of the presidency by corrupt Republicans and their allies in Florida and the Supreme Court. If it's 40% Romney, 35% Clinton, 25% Trump, that's the sort of picture where Romney has an easy case of persuading the public that he should be President. "I didn't just come in 1st, but the Democrats clearly didn't win, only receiving 35% of the vote." If instead the picture is something more like 49% Clinton, 30% Romney, 21% Trump, now Romney has the very tough fight of convincing the public, "Look: even though I was a solid 19% percentage points behind Clinton, and even though my party -- if we count Donald and I as one -- was only 2 percentage points in the lead ... that's still a lead, and I'm still the winner of that Republican face-off ... and so, like, I mean, um ... MAKE ME YOUR PRESIDENT PLEASE!" If the party race is close, and he's trailing Clinton by the numbers, how does Romney convince the public that he should be President? All the corruption on Capitol Hill couldn't save him then -- handing him the win like that would be 2000 on a different scale of bad.

To put things into perspective, I have already heard talk here in Indiana about how if Trump were to become President then this is the part where the states would pull a Civil War 2.0 and call on their national guard chapters to stave off the federal government's forces and to flatly refuse to accept Trump as their Commander-in-Chief. Indiana, the same state that just handed Trump an easy primary win. Trump is that unpopular with Hoosiers in general. You gotta remember: Trump only won about 52% of the Hoosier Republican primary vote. Republicans are roughly 50% of Hoosiers. And not all Hoosiers vote. Armchair estimate would be that only 30% of Hoosiers vote in a primary election. Let's ignore that third statistic entirely. The point would still be that Trump only secured 52% of 50% of Indiana's vote. That's only about 25, 26% of the state. 74, 75% of the state doesn't want him to be President. And for most of those 75%, the dislike is intense.

So if people are talking that rhetoric about a winning Trump, how are they going to respond to a losing Romney that gets crowned President? Romney can't just beat Trump while also keeping Hillary beneath 50%. He has to soundly beat Clinton too. And he just can't do it. The country isn't that disfavorable to Democrats right now.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2016, 01:08 PM   #1425
deoxys
Fog Badge
 
deoxys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,513
Dear god, is Kasich really going to drop out? The hell?
deoxys is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > Debate


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (0 members and 4 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:33 AM.


Design By: Miner Skinz.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.