03-01-2012, 08:10 PM | #26 |
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Don't be an asshole.
Also, don't straw-man Shuckle's argument, unownmew. You know perfectly well that oil and nuclear power plants can't run all the time and require maintenance as well. |
03-01-2012, 08:32 PM | #27 | |
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You're right, oil and nuclear power plants do require maintenance to keep in peek performance. Solar Cells are much much more delicate then Coal and Nuclear power plants though. How many power plants do you know that lose efficiency from just a couple bird droppings and fallen leaves? (or blown sand, if you're setting up a desert array) Obviously they don't run all the time, but the sheer amount of time a Solar Cell and a Windmill can't run is drastically longer then regular power plants, unless they are perfectly positioned. As far as I'm aware, though I could be wrong on this small detail, normal Power plants shut down only during maintenance. Solar shuts off every night (thus requiring to draw from a battery), and Windmills won't generate at all if the wind isn't blowing fast enough to turn the turbine. Last edited by unownmew; 03-01-2012 at 08:43 PM. |
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03-01-2012, 08:34 PM | #28 | |
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Also, by straw man I mean straw man fallacy. Setting up a weakened form of your opponent's argument in order to defeat it easily. For example: Saying that all creationists believe the Earth is 6,500 years old and then pointing to clear fossil evidence indicating the world is older than that and then saying "aha creationism is false" is a straw man argument. |
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03-01-2012, 08:41 PM | #29 |
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Yeah, I know what Straw man is, I was wondering what straw man argument I used, as I didn't make one purposefully, and don't recognize one being in my post.
If you guys are really looking for an efficient Alternative energy, you really should be looking at developing technology to utilize Solar THERMAL energy, instead of solar electric. Solar thermal can boil water to turn turbines at power plants, and at individual's homes for off-grid electrical generation, it can cook food, heat houses (even in winter), and be used in manufacturing if appropriate technology is developed and distributed. It's also cheap, and would be easy to harness with basic constructs. Solar energy straight to electric is a waste of heat energy. Anyway, my point is, the Alternative energy is not cost effective:
If we were to transfer over to alternative energies, I'd want to go a direct route like humans used in the past: Wind Mechanical energy for mechanical work (Crushing, Grinding, Sawing, milling, etc.) and Solar Thermal energy for heating work (cooking, melting, heating, etc.) And Solar Thermal to replace fossil fuel burning in stationary places (power plants) to generate electrical power. Oh, and external combustion engines for Cars. Last edited by unownmew; 03-01-2012 at 09:13 PM. |
03-01-2012, 09:20 PM | #30 |
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03-01-2012, 10:04 PM | #31 |
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Most alternative energy is cost effective. It's just not as cost effective as petrol, and since corporations strive to maximize their gains, it's not to their interest to switch to alternative when petrol is still a viable option. Either reserves have to deplete, or laws have to be enacted to make petrol no longer viable.
If you want solar, space-based solar is the way to go.
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03-01-2012, 10:36 PM | #32 | |||
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Crude oil is not directly burned in power plants. In oil refineries, the oil is taken and separated into more efficient parts using ages-old techniques. This gasoline (going conversion rate is about 15 gallons of gas, which is around 21% of a barrel) is then burned in cars to produce movement, etc. etc. Your precious oil (and even coal doesn't go directly from the mines to the lines) are basically going from: Chemical energy - chemical energy - thermal energy - mechanical energy - electrical energy instead of the hated and feared mechanical energy - electrical energy - thermal energy - mechanical energy - electrical energy We could even simplify it and make the windmill rotate the turbine directly, reducing fire hazard risks and placing the conversions at mechanical energy - electrical energy Not to be offend, but your argument is invalid, and the majority of the Debate forum agrees at this point. Alternative energy is better than fossil fuels, can't you see? Or are you too entrenched in your Tea Party mantra of Obama is the Antichrist to understand that it's more than politics? Quote:
The thing you have to remember is this; if we as a society paid as much attention to alternative energy as we do fossil fuels, oil dependence will disappear literally overnight. Look what we've done! We've made a super-dirty energy source that is literally dirt not so dirty anymore! Imagine what we could do with energy that was never dirty in the first place! Quote:
Surely I am the dumbest of men for thinking that solar was superior. As for sunlight being a rare commodity in places, I don't disagree. Solar electricity was always a little dubious to me to be honest; while it's nice to imagine a world where you can just charge your cell phone in a nice patch of sunlight, it's a little impractical to assume it's a good solution to everything. What if it's cloudy? What if it rains? Still, in places like California, Arizona, or Mexico, it could work wonders. Remember the whole thing about running a large country - one size does not fit all?
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03-01-2012, 10:52 PM | #34 |
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I can't believe I came here again. I must be a masochist or something.
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03-01-2012, 11:04 PM | #35 |
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Well, it seems you're right. My apologies for not addressing this point :P
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03-02-2012, 01:41 PM | #36 | |
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Sorry, but if anyone is going to destroy the nation through its bullshit, its Republicans. |
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03-02-2012, 01:49 PM | #37 | ||||||||
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I wasn't saying your method was hated though, I was saying it was unnecessarily complex, with unnecessary conversions. As you yourself simplified below: Quote:
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And I can't see any way you were not intending to offend by stating untruths like, "Tea Party mantra of Obama is the Antichrist." Alternative energy is good, but it's not good enough yet. And until such time as it becomes as cheap as oil used to be for the end user, and cars given an alternative energy source that is just as effective and lasting as Gasoline, I'll continue to advocate using Fossil fuels over your alternate energy. Furthermore, I will never support government subsidies for any industry, particularly alternative energy, and continue to rail against oppressive business regulations being placed upon any industry, including the oil industry. Quote:
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Cold Fusion and Solar Thermal should be pressed twice as hard as Solar electric and Wind energy are. Quote:
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Develop the technology, by all means! Just don't use my taxes to subsidize it, and don't force me to pay high prices at the Gas pump, or use an electric car if I don't want to. |
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03-02-2012, 04:08 PM | #38 | |
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- Contraception and abortion - Drugs, both medical and hazardous - Toxic waste and dangerous foodstuffs - Weapons and paid violence - Prostitution and porn - Lobbying - Anti-religious material - Communism, socialism, and fascism material - Child labor |
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03-02-2012, 09:19 PM | #39 | |||||||||
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Weapon Use: use only in safe areas (described but not pre-created) or in self-defense and liability for injuries incurred outside of self defense and dueling. Violence: punishable determined by severity. Mercenary: punished as aiding and abetting violence Quote:
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Along with other deregulations needed, and a return to the gold standard, also eliminate the minimum wage. Last edited by unownmew; 03-02-2012 at 09:22 PM. |
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03-03-2012, 08:07 AM | #40 |
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I don't think you get the point of me saying that.
You support no regulations on business... except in the cases I listed, for the most part. You can't have it both ways. |
03-03-2012, 12:07 PM | #41 | |
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Obviously social order must be maintained, and morality, general safety, and cleanliness promoted, but beyond that, why do any businesses need to be regulated further? All regulation is a cost to the business and a cut into profits, some less then others, but some basic regulation, required of all companies and others tailored to specific industries, is needed to ensure operational society. Anything beyond that however, just burdens companies, cuts into their profits, and reduces productivity and wealth generation. As well, starts to single out certain people who can not afford to comply with the regulations, preventing them from being free to enrich themselves, which people are usually the ones that are in need of the enriching (poor/working class). When a company needs to hire a specialist lawyer just to understand the thousands of pages of regulations on their industry, it should be plain to see, something is clearly very wrong. Last edited by unownmew; 03-03-2012 at 12:11 PM. |
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03-03-2012, 12:14 PM | #42 | |
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The only good way is the way before that stupid photographer went into the meatpacking plants. He was all, "oh, no, you can't have rats in the meat" and we were like "We'll do whatever the **** we want" and then he went to the President and that's why we're in this mess. And then he started whining about how it wasn't safe and people could fall into the pits and we were like "Well, we didn't lose that many workers" and he just EXPLODED he was so angry! And what about this no-monopoly rule? It's True-Blue Amurrican Darwinism! If we can beat out all of the other companies, why should we let the other companies survive? Hell, we could buy other kinds of companies too so we can make more money! If they don't have money, that's they're fault for not being good enough to compete with our company. Who needs government?
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03-03-2012, 02:30 PM | #43 |
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If men were angels, there would be no need for government, but because men are not angels, they can not be trusted to rule over others. Government is a necessary evil at it's best, and an intolerable one at it's worst.
I fully support the customer's right to complain and sue for grievances from an offensive business or practice, but even more so, I support their right to do better job, by starting their own company and providing better service/products then their competitors, either to drive them out of business, or force them to step-up their own work. Regulation only gets in the way of this (such as through driving up the cost of starting the business greatly), and any that do so significantly should be stricken from the books forever. One does not need to hire a janitor to clean-up after themselves, nor a safety inspector to know if something is generally built/used unsafely. Only for extensive cleanings, and intensive inspection should a company need any use of those services, if they do not require it of their own employees. Anti-monopoly laws are necessary to keep businesses competitive and beholden to their customers. Without them, they will inevitably become as bad and oppressive as governments. Last edited by unownmew; 03-03-2012 at 02:33 PM. |
03-03-2012, 06:52 PM | #44 |
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Because #1 you made an absolute statement that regulation was wrong. I was merely showing the contradiction in your policy.
Do you not think that there might be something immoral about using unrenewable energy sources, when there is a better, more moral and sustainable, path, the use of renewable energy sources? Do we humans not have an obligation to be stewards of the earth? Does that not include causing as little damage as possible when possible? Also, there is government among the angels, so your saying is pretty stupid. Angels are governed by God's will, passed hierarchically down. Demons are governed by Satan. |
03-04-2012, 12:34 PM | #45 | |||
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Government is bad Government Regulation is bad. but! government is necessary, and some government regulation also. Thus, we need as little government as possible, and as little government regulation as possible. Only that which is absolutely necessary. In effect, there is no contradiction in my statements at all. Quote:
This extends further to company and business: If I want to rape and pillage the land for nonrenewable resources, if I own the land I am doing this pillaging on, and do not infringe on your powers, I should have that power. If you want to be all huggy with the environment, use green energy in abundance, and live in ecohousing, as long as you own the land, and do not infringe on my powers, you also should have the power to do so. Neither of us should have the power to disparage the other for the way we live our lives. Now, I agree with you, Humanity has a responsibility to be good stewards over the Earth, which oftentimes we are not. And as I've said numerous time, I fully support development of alternative energy. But, Neither of us have the right or power to force the other to live in accordance to our beliefs. Which restriction also extends to our government, which purpose is to protect my right to live as I desire, as yours, preventing either of us from infringing on the other, and providing for an orderly and moral society between us both. Neither is it's purpose to subsidize a private industry that is not profitable (Solyndra and Green Energy), nor assert it's worldviews on it's citizens (Global Warming, Evolution, etc.) Global Warming, and Green Energy policies. Both infringe on the individual's right to live as they desire, as detailed above. Both are a coercion of men against other men. Quote:
Last edited by unownmew; 03-04-2012 at 12:45 PM. |
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03-04-2012, 07:54 PM | #46 |
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>Government is bad
...Are you a closet anarchist? |
03-04-2012, 08:56 PM | #47 | |
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While the situation is purposefully absurd, it is an accurate disproof of your statement and an appropriate analogy to what people are doing to the environment. I could state that I have a reasonable suspicion that your activities are causing an unfavorable situation in the Earth's atmosphere and I need you to stop before the seas rise. In short, your statement is more full of holes than Custer's regiment. Try harder to make it feasible, pl0x.
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03-04-2012, 09:57 PM | #48 | ||
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If it becomes overly suspicious or provable you plan to do harm in America with those weapons, I also support the government's right to disarm you as a terrorist. Maybe not actual spying, but I support the right of government to do an investigation, especially when dealing with such a potential threat as that. Quote:
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03-04-2012, 11:20 PM | #49 | |||
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The Military Autocracy of Poland will not allow my imprisonment to go unavenged. Quote:
Also, we've been over this. Common sense and Pascal's Wager completely overrules "Global Warming is a Hoax" because a.) why would otherwise perfectly reputable scientists lie about something like this? It's not as if they have anything to gain from scaremongering, unlike the Tea Party. b.) what if you're wrong and global warming really is happening? Humanity = screwed if you get your way. c.) what kind of evidence do you have on your side? It is a proven fact that the earth has gone through warmer and cooler periods (case in point ice ages), proved by examining sedimentary layers in places like Utah. Global warming really is happening. The problem arises when you consider - is it normal, or is it being caused by humanity? With fossil fuels that produce cfc's and other greenhouse gases that eat away at the ozone layer and trap heat inside the Earth's atmosphere, I would say that the evidence swings strongly in favor of "not a hoax". Please enlighten us as to what explanation you have for the effect of CFC's and greenhouse gases produced by the combustion of fossil fuels on the earth's atmosphere and how it is not at all linked to the rising temperatures around the globe. Why aren't the CFC's eating away at the ozone layer? What's happening to the greenhouse gases?
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03-05-2012, 10:35 AM | #50 | |
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Also, it has to occur under certain atmospheric conditions because normally the reaction is extremely slow. |
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