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Old 02-11-2015, 08:34 PM   #1
Mercutio
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Volcarona Pokémon's End

Two simple questions:

1) What will the National Pokédex number of the last ever Pokémon be?

2) What should the National Pokédex number of the last ever Pokémon be?


Essentially I want to know how many Pokémon you think there will be before Gamefreak finally decides to pull the plug, and whether you think it will be too late or too early. Many would say that Pokémon has years of life in it and is continuously re-inventing itself, but has it jumped the shark yet?
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Old 02-11-2015, 08:41 PM   #2
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Pokemon is all about change, about evolution. Sure, a lot of the older fanbase will bitch and moan, but they're been crying "ruined forever" for one thing or another since Hoenn, maybe since Jhoto. And yet they continue to buy. I think it still has a lot of life in it.

So I don't know where it will end. I'm not sure it should.

Small post but I might expand later
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Old 02-11-2015, 08:43 PM   #3
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Judging by the fact that Mario and Zelda began in the 80's and are still going on today nearly 30 years later, I don't think Pokemon will ever end. Like Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong, etc. Nintendo will support it forever.

Will there eventually be a point where there's too many Pokemon? Yeah, we'll hit 1,000 in the Pokdex within the next gen or two, and I think it'll continue to on beyond that.

People have been trying to predict Pokemon's death since like 2000...here we are 15 years later. It'll be here 15 more years in the future in 2030 too.
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Old 02-11-2015, 08:50 PM   #4
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I do think that there have been some bad ideas for Pokemon, and I'm sure everyone does. But one of the beauties of Pokemon is that everything has a niche. While some of the designs are generally disliked, there are plenty of people who like even these guys! Garbador, here's looking at you, kid.

I don't think Pokemon is going to, or should, end anywhere in the near or possibly distant future.
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Old 02-11-2015, 08:50 PM   #5
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To be honest, Pokemon has become one of those mainstay powerhouse franchises that will probably be around until video games/Nintendo cease to be a thing. At this point, since we haven't seen any of the other major franchises (excluding Mega Man cause that doesn't count) fail, we simply don't have enough information to see what the end of such a series would look like. Additionally, despite complaints about quality and such of Pokemon, the amount of younger people AND older people who continue to show devoted interest in the series does not seem to be on too steep of a decline, so I would imagine that the number of Pokemon would well exceed 1000 before showing signs of slowing down.
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:00 PM   #6
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1) National Pokédex number 9,000.

2) National Pokédex number 999.

I think it's getting reasonably close to jumping the shark, after all they did make that whole twist at the end of the Delta Episode. It feels like they're trying too hard to make it interesting with the whole alternative timelines, universes, and the Draconids, etc. Although it could be because I'm just burnt out of Pokemon after ORAS and I'm rambling on.

As for if it'll stay or not, it will. If Mario, a simplistic platformer (not an insult to Mario, but it is that, in a way) can stay for almost 30 years, Pokemon will likely stay. Although I can imagine it'll lose relevance ever so slightly, not saying it will, but it is possible.
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:05 PM   #7
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A1. No way for me to know but I will guess that it'll be 1,000 or greater. Once we pass 1,000 (千), the next natural "round even number" for it in Japanese would be 10,000 (万), so I guess they could go that far. But that would be pretty damn ridiculous. No, I think they will stop somewhere between 1,000 and 1,510, inclusive.

A2. I guess I'd say that we already passed my last stop before 2,000 or thereabouts and so it's 2,000 now. 500 or so would've probably been my last "STOP HERE! @_@" point. 2,000 is the next in line for no really good reason other than:
  • I worry we'll hit 1,000 before doing all the things I want to see done
    • blue jay
    • snowy owl
    • woodpecker
    • water beetle
    Not because we don't have time but because Game Freak will just forget to do it.
  • I worry that more than 2,000 will not be manageably memorizable, but that 2,000 is feasible.
    • It's one order of magnitude higher than bones in your body.
    • It's roughly the same number of kanji the Japansse Ministry of Education says you need to know how to read to be fluently literate.
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:24 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by RealMrGame10 View Post
At this point, since we haven't seen any of the other major franchises (excluding Mega Man cause that doesn't count) fail, we simply don't have enough information to see what the end of such a series would look like.
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soon

Joking aside, 1000-2000 sounds like a good number of Pokemon to me and I can't imagine Gamefreak making much more than that without repeating. Not to mention that the games don't really need new Pokemon to do things within the series.

Once the PokeMMO is released in the year 2235, we won't really need new pokemon. =)

nintendo plz
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:26 PM   #9
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I remember people used to think 500 pokemon would be too much and it would stop there, and its well passed that now. Also if count Mega Evolutions (which we probably should, despite not being traditional new pokemon in the Pokedex) we're already well close to 900 pokemon as is.

I wonder how many times this topic has been created since like the year 2000, and I mean on the internet in general. People have been speculating the end of Pokemon since like 2000.
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Old 02-12-2015, 06:24 AM   #10
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Agreed. New main series games (with new pokemon and regions) is a license for gamefreak to print money and their popularity shows no more sign of waning now than it did 15 years ago. They could make excellent games without the need for either new regions or mon (see: BW2) but from their point of view why would they - BW2 sales were comparable to third versions, not a main series game. If new gens like XY makes them more money than gen-internal sequels like BW2 then that's what they focus on making.

Making new pokemon will continue to make them money so they'll continue to do it.

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Joking aside, 1000-2000 sounds like a good number of Pokemon to me and I can't imagine Gamefreak making much more than that without repeating.
There have been repeated pokemon designs since gen III, and mega's are an excuse to make a much higher proportion of "new" mon just repeats/slight redesigns of existing ones. I suspect gen VI size gens with mega's making up the numbers will be the norm at least for the forseeable future.
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Old 02-12-2015, 07:04 AM   #11
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Yeah Pokemon won't go away anytime soon but it's going to grow so much that the size is going to become a huge issue for comp. it already is a problem, but it's somewhat manageable now, but once there's over 1000 Pokemon, there's just going to be too many to keep a viable meta, especially if movepools make them one trick ponies as they've been doing since gen 5.
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:14 AM   #12
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I wouldn't be surprised if in the not so distant future we see more restrictions on what you can use in VGC, in the hopes it permeates to the meta at large. To use a card game analogy Pokemon is currently like YuGiOh - some stuff is banned for being OP, but everything else is legal no matter how old. I could see it switching to a Magic style format (in several Magic formats only the latest blocks - regional dexes, in Pokemon terms - are allowed). Rather than being able to use all ~720 you'd only be allowed the ~450 in the Kalos dex, for example. Other regional dexes have been 200-300 mon (the enhanced versions anyway for Hoenn and Unova).
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Old 02-12-2015, 12:00 PM   #13
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We've seen this in two seasons. The first Gen 5 season was UnovaDex only and the first Gen 6 season was KalosDex only. There was much criticism for each, as most people want to be allowed to play with their favorites and have full access to the wealth of tactics the game has to offer. But there was much less criticism for the Kalos one than for the pioneering Unova one, both before and during the format. People, especially competitive players, realized or came to realize that the regional dex formats provided for a fun shake-up, that the NationalDex format was not without its complaints. I don't know about most, but I'd say that many VGCers were openly hoping for a HoennDex instead of a NationalDex for VGC 2015. The NationalDex was still well received, but I think people were interested to try something with a new flavor again.
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Old 02-12-2015, 10:32 PM   #14
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Aren't there like almost 30 legendaries now? I've honestly lost count somewhere around Gen IV-V.

Hard to believe we went from the initial 5 legends (Mew, Mewtwo and the birds) to what we have now. Looking back Moltres and Articuno look so lackluster and primitive to the insane legends we get today that can control time and space.
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Old 02-13-2015, 04:37 AM   #15
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Well, I will do a Legendary count
Gen 1: Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres, Mewtwo, Mew (5)
Gen 2: Raikou, Entei, Suicune, Lugia, Ho-oh, Celebi (6)
Gen 3: Regirock, Regice, Registeel, Latias, Latios, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Jirachi, Deoxys (10)
Gen 4: Uxie, Mesprit, Azelf, Dialga, Palkia, Heatran, Regigigas, Giratina, Cresselia, Phione, Manaphy, Darkrai, Shaymin, Arceus (14)
Gen 5: Victini, Cobalion, Terrakion, Virizion, Tornadus, Thundorus, Reshiram, Zekrom, Landorus, Kyurem, Keldeo, Meloetta, Genesect (13)
Gen 6: Xerneas, Yveltal, Zygarde, Diancie, Hoopa, Volcanion (6)

Total= 54

That is a lot of Legends if you ask me
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didn't they remove Blaziken's crotchtuft with the 3D models?
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I didn't realise Blaziken even had that. It is there, but a bit small.
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Old 02-13-2015, 08:12 PM   #16
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Yeah "legendary" kinda lost all meaning around gen III or IV. VI's legend list looks reasonably until you remember the dex was half sized.

One thing that occurs to me with how many mon we have is that post III or IV it became impossible to reasonably have the whole dex in one game. 450 (Kalos) was stupid big and still only made about two thirds of the dex. There are about 100 pokemon you cannot catch at all in gen V and even with the excessively large Kalos dex there are a number of regular mon you can't catch until the postgame in gen VI. The numbers are getting seriously unwieldy. There's a limit to how many pokemon you can feasibly fit into one game, a limit to how many games they can make a gen and (as hardware improves) a limit to how much inter-gen connectivity you can do - how many more pokemon can they make before we start seeing mon that are just outright unobtainable even through inter-gen trading?
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Old 02-14-2015, 01:51 AM   #17
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I don't know what to think, honestly. I can't even imagine Pokémon ever ending, and yet at the same time it's just as scary to think that the Pokedex could number in the thousands some day. That's not even a plausible number. Even the most devoted fans would have trouble recognizing them all. I sometimes forget a Pokémon's name when I see it even though there are only 700 something now. If Freak wants to go on making new characters, and still be realistic, then I find it very likely that in the future there will be setups more akin to the way Black and White worked; only Pokémon from that region can actually be in the region. Except even more strict, likely. Or, at least, hopefully by the time we hit 1500 or so hard/software is advanced enough that we can whip out in-game dexes mid-battle. Otherwise it would just become silly, and rather impossible for anyone to actually fulfill the dream of "catching 'em all".
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Old 02-14-2015, 03:07 AM   #18
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You also can't forget remake after remake. People thought they wouldn't remake Gold/Silver or Ruby/Sapphire either (especially back in 2004 when FR/LG was thought to be a one-time thing) and yet they did.

I fully expect DP to be remade in the next couple of years too. We're just going to keep cycling through endless remakes too because the kids that grow up with a particular gen will be adults craving remakes.

Hard to believe so many people started with Ruby/Sapphire as their first games now as opposed to Red/Blue, but then I realize 2003 is 12 years ago and realize how much time has passed.
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Old 02-14-2015, 05:13 PM   #19
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Really though, where the fuck is our Dolphin Pokemon? And while we're at it, how about a Gorilla, more owls, Flamingo, Emu, Red Panda, Tiger (not Raikou), Capybara, Pegasus, Narwhal, Manatee...??

There are a lot of animals that still haven't seen the light of day as Pokemon.

I reckon we will start to see less and less Pokemon introduced per gen slowly but surely until it taps out around 1,500 - 2,000. Mega Pokemon aside this gen released the lowest amount thus far in a gen and I imagine they are slowly working toward centralizing the games around the experience rather than the amount of new Pokemon. Once they get to over the 1,000 mark they will be able to pump out games and regions that are essentially just grab bag mixtures of past gens thrown together, which is sort of what Kalos already did aside from the 80 or so new Pokemon. I really believe that is going to be the direction they have to head in and so the challenge will become "How can we keep Pokemon 'fresh' each time without introducing a new plethora or creatures?", and we sort of saw that with XY being the first big 3D Pokemon game + all of the online features + Mega Evolutions.

That's my take on it. I doubt they will ever stop making at the very least three new starters for every region unless they start mixing that up as well and doing shit like Chikorita, Chimchar, and Froakie. That aside it's gonna be less about adding new Pokemon over time because it would not be healthy for the series to have more Pokemon than fans can memorize, and instead will become more about new experiences, and that is going to be a tough challenge.
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Old 02-14-2015, 05:15 PM   #20
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Yeah I've gone back to playing about with my Brit!imaginarygame and have shoehorned in a dolphon Pokémon because fuck you Gamefreak we do not need two varieties of fucking oyster.
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Old 02-15-2015, 11:46 PM   #21
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Why don't they just slow down the time between new gens? Its not like we have to have a new generation every 3 years.

The span from R/S to DP was 4 years, same from DP to BW. Its only now the gap went back down to 3 years.
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Old 02-16-2015, 05:13 AM   #22
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One of these days, we will get a kangaroo Pokemon that actually resembles a kangaroo or a wallaby. God knows what Kangaskhan is meant to be. Australia is already filled with animals which are bizarre enough to pass as Pokemon; it's only a matter of time before GameFreak adapts Australia. Inb4 all the spider Pokemon.
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Old 02-16-2015, 05:24 AM   #23
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I would argue that Breloom pretty obviously looks like a kangaroo.
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Old 02-16-2015, 11:47 AM   #24
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Man I dunno about anyone else but I, for one, am looking forwards to when we have 3,000 pokemon, have them all memorized, yet still only have maaaaaybe 100 species of real animals memorized.

It's gonna be awesome

(Picking favorites is going to be even harder though)


I surprisingly really like 'cept's idea of the competitive scene being only the latest gen or so, with casual/traditional play having all Pokemon to choose from. Would also bring about some fairly interesting metas, and since unlike card games, Pokemon is about using free pieces of data, it doesn't really hurt the players any either! As long as that Traditional format is still there so I can Umbreon/Weezing core all day.
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Old 02-16-2015, 09:22 PM   #25
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idk about you but I want to see a Clock Pokemon, Treadmill Rotom, and a couple more household objects as Pokemon
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