11-14-2018, 11:36 PM | #4826 |
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I like that Z-Moves can get around some things like abilities and Protect but HATE that you can't Taunt Z-Geomancy. It's essentially a wasted move.
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11-19-2018, 04:10 AM | #4827 |
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A little food for thought - how much did Mega Evolution make lives better for the Pokemon's evolutionary line? I compiled how much tier improvement each line with its Mega Evolution, in Gen VII (untiered > AG, 7 total steps):
No improvement: 10 Pokemon +1 Tier: 8 Pokemon +2 Tiers: 9 Pokemon +3 Tiers: 13 Pokemon +4 Tiers: 6 Pokemon +5 Tiers: 2 Pokemon +6 Tiers: 0 /48 Megas How I interpret this: 0-1 tiers: no real improvement (or within error/meta environment) 2-3 tiers: solid 4-5 tiers: godly At first blush, it looks like Mega Evolution helped most Pokemon: 37.5% had no meaningful improvement, while 62.5% had meaningful jumps. However, there is a caveats: Five Megas were banned to Ubers, with four base already Uber, so eight of these Megas had no impact on the standard meta. Gengar, Lucario, Metagross all had +2 Tiers, and Mega Kangaskhan had the sole +5. If you take all these Ubers away, No improvement: 7 Pokemon +1 Tier: 6 Pokemon +2 Tiers: 6 Pokemon +3 Tiers: 13 Pokemon +4 Tiers: 6 Pokemon +5 Tiers: 1 Pokemon +6 Tiers: 0 /39 Megas This actually improves things a bit, with 33% of Megas having no impact. But at the highest level of play, only four Pokemon really experienced a rags-to-riches dream come true: Mawile Pinsir Sableye Lopunny So if OU is your benchmark for success, there are 20 OU Megas. 5 were already OU or BL in their base form and 4 were UU or BL (so usable in OU). So we're functionally looking at 11 Pokemon actually being relevant to the metagame. I think that's a significant amount in a game where a single Pokemon can warp the meta, but it's probably less than what people believe, thinking most Megas had an impact. That's kind of true, but it was, largely, a small impact.
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11-19-2018, 04:17 AM | #4828 |
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What about Megas like Mega Scizor, who don't represent a Tier change but did have a major impact on the metagame for a significant period of time?
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11-19-2018, 09:01 AM | #4829 |
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I didn't examine viability at all, and in fact rounded up for a lot of the BL cases.
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11-22-2018, 04:55 AM | #4830 |
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Mega Aerodactyl is broken in LGPE OU:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/g...goou-824436282 https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/g...goou-824438273 With 150 speed, nothing outspeeds, not even Mega Alakazam - the best they can do is tie. It cannot be OHKO'd by anything sort of Pikachu-S Zippy Zap without getting in a hit first. And since it resists Quick Attack, Mega Aerodactyl is guaranteed to get in a few hits and set up rocks before going down.
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11-27-2018, 01:50 PM | #4831 |
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Mega Sceptile might be neutral to Fire, but it still crumbles before Heatran's Magma Storm.
This got me to look at Mega Sceptile's typing, and...I think Grass/Dragon is quite possibly the worst typing possible for Grass OR Dragon. :/ You trade a weakness for Fire with a weakness to Dragon/Fairy, and throw in a x4 weakness to Ice. Meanwhile...Grass/Dragon doesn't gain any new resists, it merely doubles down on what it already resisted (Electric, Water, Grass). The coup-de-grace is giving Mega Sceptile Lightning Rod, which gives it Thunder Wave immunity but also removes one of its x4 resistances, making the typing benefit redundant. Why GF hate Sceptile so much?
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11-27-2018, 06:15 PM | #4832 |
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The way I see things, it isn't that GF hates sceptile- rather, I believe that Mega Sceptile is a case where they prioritized flavor over function.
Spoiler: show At the end of the day, Mega Sceptile is a flavorful and awesome pokemon in pretty much every format except Competitive. And honestly, that's fine- on a meta level, it's designed to be a crutch for in-game, where its weakness ultimately don't matter. Not every Mega Evolution has to be as ridiculous as gengar and kangaskhan to be useful somewhere, after all! |
11-27-2018, 06:28 PM | #4833 |
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In fairness, Mega Sceptile is considerably better than normal Sceptile.
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11-28-2018, 12:47 AM | #4834 | |
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Quote:
If there's a problem with the movepool, it's that it doesn't learn Draco Meteor. DM compliments Leaf Storm very well and it doesn't learn it for who knows why. The real issue is Lightning Rod. Of the 20 Megas introduced in ORAS, even for the "filler" Pokemon, the vast majority got stat boosting abilities: Offense/Damage 1. Beedrill - Adaptability 2. Steelix - Sand Force 3. Sharpedo - Strong Jaw 4. Camerupt - Sheer Force 5. Altaria - Pixilate 6. Glalie - Refrigerate 7. Salamence - Aerliate 8. Metagross - Tough Claws Offense/Accuracy 9. Pidgeot - No Guard Offense/Coverage 10. Lopunny - Scrappy Speed 11. Swampert - Swift Swim XX. Blaziken - Speed Boost Defense 12. Sableye - Magic Bounce 13. Diancie - Magic Bounce 14. Slowbro - Shell Armor 15. Rayquaza - Delta Stream 16. Gallade - Inner Force 17. Latios - Levitate 18. Latias - Levitate 19. Audino - Healer 20. Sceptile - Lightning Rod Sceptile really stands out, as the only offensive Pokemon to receive a new defensive ability. Latios/Latias still had Soul Dew, Rayquaza could hold an item. And because Sceptile is a starter, this makes its bad ability stand out all the more, since it's always been compared against Blaziken/Swampert and its Mega Form is arguably just as inferior (perhaps more, since it uses the Mega slot). Immunity to Thunder Wave? Diancie and Sableye are too... Sucky!
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11-29-2018, 12:45 PM | #4835 |
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Honestky you say Mega Sceptile getting LightningRod is a waste but in metas where the thing can acquire other abilities (AAA, Balanced Hack), it largely doesn't because TWave/General Electric immunity just gets that much use in competitive. Paralysis is one of the primary forms of Speed Control being one of the easiest to use, and being able to No-Sell the most viable means of setting it and at the same time boosting is pretty big.
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11-29-2018, 05:41 PM | #4836 |
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I don't know what AAA is like, but Hackmons allows Megas, Primals, Ultras and Ash's to battle in their transformed state without needing to meet any conditions. That completely changes the cost/benefit equation, and for that reason Hackmons values typing, BST and bulk above almost everything else.
Like you could run Mega Sceptile in those environments, but since the whole appeal is they can run any ability, why on earth would you go there just to keep its original one?
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12-01-2018, 12:56 PM | #4837 |
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Because you can slap Electrify on something fast and then let it keep Lightning Rod and have it be good at special attacking because no movepool restrictions. I'm sure i have a match in here where I fucked up a sweep with it solely because i was greedy and flamethrower'd a flash fire bait mega abomasnow when i had the boosts that straight spacial rend would have killed anyway.
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12-20-2018, 12:01 PM | #4838 |
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Remember that guy in BW who had six Pokemon on his team, and they were all strong? Some fellas went and did a simulation of what would happen if that guy challenged Champion Trace in LGPE.
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12-30-2018, 05:44 AM | #4840 |
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I'm not sure how relevant this might be for the future, but here's a little M21 spoiler (Gen VIII?): Abilities can now become held items.
It was kind of lost in the plot of the movie and wasn't something I picked up on at all on the first watch. The anime has trended toward foreshadowing future GameFreak developments, and this would certainly be very very big if retained.
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12-30-2018, 01:54 PM | #4841 |
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...that's strange. I'm not really sure how that would work for like, the majority of abilities. But sure! Why not!
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01-20-2019, 04:04 PM | #4842 |
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You hear how Zygarde was banned? Well, there's a new rule on Smogon: Ubers is overpopulated, so if someone immigrates into Ubers, someone has to emigrate to AG.
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01-20-2019, 04:20 PM | #4843 |
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Except...there's no evidence that's the case.
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01-20-2019, 04:25 PM | #4844 |
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You missed my sarcasm!
The Zygarde ban was widely regarded as a bunch of bored players trying to shake things up. That they're even suggesting of suspect testing Ultranecrozium Z (which is way beyond the Zygarde suspect) is evidence of the same sense of apathy. If Ultranecrozium Z is actually suspected, it'll be banned due to mob mentality.
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01-20-2019, 04:29 PM | #4845 |
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Fair point, I did indeed!
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01-23-2019, 02:18 PM | #4846 |
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I'd say they should just do the suspect already for the sole reason that the thread is literally an OU suspect discussion thread with different discussion criteria at this point. Like, if it weren't for the OP, I'd legit think the Ultranecrozium suspect had already been declared walking into that thread.
The problem is that after the mega gengar/stag fiasco I wager that not many trust the Ubers brass, and honestly? I can't blame them too too much for it. Still, no point in establishing this council or whatever if the crowd is going to do their job for the like this.
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01-24-2019, 08:35 PM | #4847 | |
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Quote:
Until this, I didn't really have any reason to doubt the Ubers council, since it's a very easy metagame to manage. But I feel like a lot of this suspect is a proxy for a greater resentment with Gen VII OU, which, let's face it, is widely played and just as widely disliked. What makes Gen VII OU good is what most competitive battlers hate. And Gen VIII is just going to be more of the same, which is something this dissatisfied players recognize on some basal level.
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01-24-2019, 08:51 PM | #4848 |
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Ubers tried to ban mega gengar, failed, then tried to ban shadow tag and gotv called out
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01-24-2019, 11:36 PM | #4849 |
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When was that? Recently, or years ago?
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01-25-2019, 10:45 AM | #4850 |
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A few years ago
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