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Old 06-26-2007, 11:25 AM   #1
McSweeney
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I'm calling out Dopple!

HEY, you know what's strange about this guy? He appears to be asexual. I have never once seen him make a comment about how hot x girl is from whatever anime. All right that's fine, but no mention of how handsome some guy is either. Now that is very unusual.

Are you one of those weirdos that doesn't find anime characters arousing?
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Old 06-26-2007, 11:47 AM   #2
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Re: I'm calling out Dopple!

THIS is why he doesn't like Genshiken! He was disagreed with Madarame's conjecture on hentai and the human brain! ;)
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Old 06-26-2007, 01:00 PM   #3
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Re: I'm calling out Dopple!

I think he called Loki's Shana wallpaper hot in the Show off your desktop thread. (It might of been someone else)

He might just be a loli fan and just doesn't want to admit it.
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Old 06-26-2007, 01:50 PM   #4
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Re: I'm calling out Dopple!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcsweeney
Are you one of those weirdos that doesn't find anime characters arousing?
Seems to be the case. The only kind of feeling I get toward anime girls is if they're adorable, like Yotsuba, but nothing sexual really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by big bad birtha
I think he called Loki's Shana wallpaper hot in the Show off your desktop thread. (It might of been someone else)
You mean, "OH GOD SHANA IS HOT"? :10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87
THIS is why he doesn't like Genshiken! He was disagreed with Madarame's conjecture on hentai and the human brain! ;)
You mean the WXY one? I agree with his hypothesis...I just don't like it. Just because it's natural people can get aroused by abstractions doesn't mean they should.
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Old 06-26-2007, 05:07 PM   #5
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Re: I'm calling out Dopple!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger
Seems to be the case. The only kind of feeling I get toward anime girls is if they're adorable, like Yotsuba, but nothing sexual really.
Aww, not even with hentai? I thought it would be natural as an anime fan to at least become aroused when watching an awesome hentai (which reminds me, I haven't watched one in forever >< ).

I understand your view on normal anime girls though. I mean, I find this to be adorable instead of hot (awwww, Misuzu hugging a dinosaur doll X3). It's best to separate joy from pleasure.
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Old 06-26-2007, 05:17 PM   #6
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Re: I'm calling out Dopple!

What really frustrates me sometimes is when I see something as cute and asexual and then others sign on and begin talking about in a sexual manner (e.g. characters in Casey & Friends). So I sort of feel bad for Doppel since he has to put up with [strike:62c58]me[/strike:62c58] us ranting and raving about how hot Genshiken's Ohno is, or how hot School Rumble's Eri is, etc.
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Old 06-26-2007, 07:16 PM   #7
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Re: I'm calling out Dopple!

Quote:
Originally Posted by big bad birtha
Aww, not even with hentai? I thought it would be natural as an anime fan to at least become aroused when watching an awesome hentai (which reminds me, I haven't watched one in forever >< ).
I don't normally watch H related material, nor do I seek it (or porn) out. In my view it's disgusting, not because of the copulation but because it's so unrealistic, which is why I dislike fanservice as well - nothing is more annoying than a stick figure with huge breasts jiggling about a screen during a fierce battle scene (id est, what happens ALL THE TIME nowadays in One Piece).

Ideally, the "perfect" kind of anime story I'm looking for is a story where a shag occurs as part of the plot but not the focus. There's only one manga I've heard of in legend that fits such a schema, and that's Cyborg 009 - almost everything else is either ero-centric or never makes the decisive step into ero territory.

Zero no Tsukaima the novel might fit this model as well, it all remains to be seen what happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87
What really frustrates me sometimes is when I see something as cute and asexual and then others sign on and begin talking about in a sexual manner (e.g. characters in Casey & Friends).
That's a very old joke among fans of that video that Higurashi was based on an eroge, since a "murder/mystery" visual novel is a rather rare breed to be turned into an anime. Can't imagine people taking that seriously - any sexual stuff in Higurashi would be notoriously poor quality. ^_^;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87
So I sort of feel bad for Doppel since he has to put up with [strike:a81c9]me[/strike:a81c9] us ranting and raving about how hot Genshiken's Ohno is, or how hot School Rumble's Eri is, etc.
I'm not bothered at all, since I can see how people can be attracted to some characters (with a certain look, personality, posture, etc.) even if I don't feel that way myself - I only object when people look at something that is clearly very ugly and treat that something like a sexual idol.

Namely, the characters from Lucky Star. =_=
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Old 06-27-2007, 03:30 PM   #8
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Re: I'm calling out Dopple!

What bugs me is that Dopple said he was going to boycott The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya DVDs R1 purely because Crispin Freeman is playing Kyon, which is semi-legitimate, but his added excuse was he was going to buy the Fate Stay/Night R1 DVDs instead, which would have been legitimate if he didn't go ahead and say he hated the episodes from after Archer kicked the bucket.

So you're going to boycott a good show just because it has a VA you don't like but you're going to buy a bad show?
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Old 06-27-2007, 03:39 PM   #9
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Re: I'm calling out Dopple!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoalaDevourer
So you're going to boycott a good show just because it has a VA you don't like but you're going to buy a bad show?
I only keep episodes on my computer if I can watch them over and over and still be entertained, and I'll only buy them if I can watch them over and over in English. While short, most of the Haruhi episodes aren't the kind I can watch multiple times in Japanese, let alone English - FSN is decent, so if FSN #14 is good in English I'll purchase that episode so I can watch it again. I probably won't be getting any other FSN DVDs.

Right now, the only shows on my computer that haven't been deleted are Akagi (all) and Gurren-Lagann (everything except four), which I listen to on occasion in place of music or watch for an adrenaline boost.

And when I say multiple times, I don't mean two~three times, I mean like thirty or forty times. I've already seen GL #8 about twenty nine times. >_>;
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Old 06-28-2007, 01:37 PM   #10
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Re: I'm calling out Dopple!

I actually can understand not liking hentai; when I first discovered it, I didn't find it hot and only looked at it for humourous purposes. It probably doesn't help that a lot of the stuff I saw had abysmal art. But not oggling anime characters after you've watched a good amount of it just completely blows my mind!

What was even the point of watching Zero no Tsukaima then?! Or Shana for that matter. I can't imagine liking the latter for its story. No idea about the former but I figured it was much the same.
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Old 06-28-2007, 01:57 PM   #11
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Re: I'm calling out Dopple!

I got into Shakugan no Shana because the story, from my perspective, was interesting - the characters were well drawn as well, but the story was what got me into it at first. Usually, I look at a story (a.k.a spoil myself silly) on Wikipedia and then investigate the actual show, forgetting much of what I originally read - such is the case with Kanon, Code Geass and Shana. Since Shana was the "twin" to FSN, the transition from FSN to Shana was all the more smooth, especially since Shana's story wasn't butchered and the budget was far larger than FSN (ironic, given J.C. Staff did the Tsukihime anime).

Shana's personality quirks kept me entertained, and hope that Sakai Yuuji would go GAR sometime in the show kept me through. There were only two characters in the show I hated (and, no doubt, Talon will hate them even more than I do) and while the action wasn't really my draw to the show, the atmosphere (sort of a depressed, surreal dark Japan) and the concepts of life and death (or lack thereof) were pretty solid.

Only in the Shana flashback did I feel the show taxing, as is the tendency of flashbacks, but the Ball Masque arc, however rushed it was, made up for it.

Zero no Tsukaima was a suggestion from my friend DaisukeCP9, and I found it to have a LOT of Shana related parody material, as well as cliche critiques in general (as in, there is a Tamaki (Ouran) and Yuki (Haruhi) in ZnT). Zero had a lot of funny tsundere stuff, but the real reason I continued to watched it...

...was Hiraga Saito. He was everything Yuuji could not be, and more. It's tough to talk about Saito without spoiling ZnT, but suffice to say, he's one of the most GAR harem leads ever, not counting Archer who isn't really a harem lead anymore in FSN.

It's one of my goals to track down Satoshi Hino and make him a regular poster on /a/. If only, if only. =_=
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Old 06-28-2007, 02:35 PM   #12
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Re: I'm calling out Dopple!

I think Doppel's inability to get into beautiful anime females erotically might partially contribute to his distaste for Genshiken, since the jokes about Ohno (and her big, beautiful breasts) are supposed to elicit sympathy from the reader. And that goal is met when you're a nerd who has a thing for Ohno, because then you get defensive for her (as if she's your girlfriend) whenever Saki teases her about her boobs or whenever Ogiue argues with her. But if you just see her (asexually) as a large breasted Japanese girl with a beautiful waterfall of hair who spent several years in the USA, then there really isn't much to the jokes about Ohno's cup size.

Like, I think one of the funniest jokes in the series is when Madarame and Kanji are pseudo-discretely trying to guess Ohno's cup size in terms of World Cups (hahaha, very punny), and they use big letters like J. But I can't imagine it would be a very funny joke to somebody who doesn't give a shit about animated boobies.

*shrug*

Doppel, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you dislike Love Hina? This could really make a lot of sense if I'm remembering right. Because I think most people grow attached (emotionally and "I'm rooting for you 'cause I love you! "-wise) to one of three girls in that series (Naru, Mutsumi, or Shinobu), and it keeps their fanship going throughout the entire run of the show. Whereas for you, being infatuated with none of the girls, there really isn't much to run with.
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Old 06-28-2007, 03:37 PM   #13
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Re: I'm calling out Dopple!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87
But if you just see her (asexually) as a large breasted Japanese girl with a beautiful waterfall of hair who spent several years in the USA, then there really isn't much to the jokes about Ohno's cup size.
That's along the lines of what I thinking. There was a segment in the first volume where Saki and Ohno were snuggling each other that I trying to not pay attention to - I tried to get through it as quickly as possible because the whole time I was thinking, "oh, faaaaanseeeeervice. ".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87
Like, I think one of the funniest jokes in the series is when Madarame and Kanji are pseudo-discretely trying to guess Ohno's cup size in terms of World Cups (hahaha, very punny), and they use big letters like J. But I can't imagine it would be a very funny joke to somebody who doesn't give a shit about animated boobies.
Well, as far as fanservice goes, I'm not indifferent to "large breasts"...I actively dislike them. It's probably one of the worst illustrations of fanservice ever - they're unslightly on an otherwise well built frame, and outright disgusting on a twig. And let's not even touch on the horrible "jiggle". D:

Not to imply I'm a "delicious flat chest" kind of fellow, but I think people should be in proportions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87
Doppel, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you dislike Love Hina? This could really make a lot of sense if I'm remembering right. Because I think most people grow attached (emotionally and "I'm rooting for you 'cause I love you! "-wise) to one of three girls in that series (Naru, Mutsumi, or Shinobu), and it keeps their fanship going throughout the entire run of the show. Whereas for you, being infatuated with none of the girls, there really isn't much to run with.
I liked Love Hina a lot, actually - the girl I originally cheered for was Shinobu, followed by Mutsumi and then Motoko. My reasoning was because Shinobu's was the more "genuine" crush, while Mutsumi the more believable pairing. Naru was and still is at the end of my list, I did not like much about her at all. This preference has somewhat continued into Negima! were I actively dislike Asuna, but I like Chisame (these are the two 'naru clones').

And the only reason I liked Motoko (originally) was a small panel in one of the earlier volumes were Motoko's sister comes over and Keitaro and Motoko are pretending to be an engaged couple - Keitaro thinks, "Maybe life with Motoko wouldn't be so bad...NO I WANT NARU" and it had a cute picture of Keitaro + Motoko in a wedding gown and then another scene with children. 'twas touching enough for me to like Motoko after that. Her development was quite a surprise left-field gut shotput.
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Old 06-28-2007, 05:29 PM   #14
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Re: I'm calling out Dopple!

I was curious about something. Is there any female characters that you just fall in love with? Like if they have some personality trait that strikes you the right way, and you have to love the character as though it was an actual person? I'm not talking about anything sexual.
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Old 06-28-2007, 05:42 PM   #15
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Re: I'm calling out Dopple!

Usually, I'm not into "defenseless women who need a protector"-types, and I'm also really bad (irl) with the mentally handicapped, but for whatever reason, those beliefs sort of went out the door with Chobits' Chii. She's somebody I really sort of wish I had in my life -- a beautiful person in the body of an adult but with the pure innocence of mind and spirit of somebody very young. Somebody who is mature (mentally) enough to discuss and deal with adult topics (by which I mean both the X-rated and the quantum physics-type stuff). But at the same time is like a child, looking at everything as though it's the very first time, always overjoyed to see me come home from work and jumping onto me and hugging me so affectionately. I dunno. Chii's a very, very special exception to my general rules on women, and I can't quite explain it.

But beyond that, yeah, there are usually two kinds of women in anime that I "fall for" without it being sexual ...

1 - I fall for cute, bumbling girls (like Kanon's Ayu) but I don't fall in love with them so much as fall into the "Awwwwwwww " situation and "Awwww" (in my head or even outloud) at everything they do. Completely asexual, as well as a-romantic. I think they're cute, but not romantically. Cute like a puppy or a snow rabbit or a snow man.

2 - I fall for .... hmm. I don't know. ^_^; It just went out of my mind. I had it, and now I've lost it. I'll edit this post if I remember. ^_^; *can't think of any examples of women in anime Talon has liked who he hasn't also seen in a sexual light*
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Old 06-28-2007, 08:05 PM   #16
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Re: I'm calling out Dopple!

Thanks, I almost forgot to say the qualities I like in female anime characters. Well, these are the qualities that will almost always get me.

1) Cute. Well, unlike Suigin, I really like characters that make me go "awwwwwwww ". I love them. Makes me just want to huggle them.

2) Gentle. This mostly refers to girls who don't beat the crap out of someone constantly. If I see a gentle character, I will almost always fall for her. For some reason, unnecessarily violent girls irritate me.

3) Sweet . Someone who is really loving. Example: If her existence itself is a result of how deeply she loves someone, I will cry for a bit, and fall in love with her. It also helps if she shows concern.

4) Innocent. Not creepy innocent. Kinda like the kind of innocent that Suigin was talking about. Someone who will just be overjoyed just by seeing the person she likes. I also like characters who are embarrased to say "I love you." (even though almost every character is like that).

5) Has wierd quirks. Well, there are alot of things that fit into this category. A girl who has a really strange taste in food, or has an odd way of looking at things. I can't really come up with many examples.

6) Weaknesses. I couldn't find a better word for this. Anyway, a girl who is afraid of something that she really shouldn't be afraid of, or just isn't very strong.

I couldn't really come up with much since I have never seriously thought about this. I always fall for characters with these qualities. Oh, and just so you know, Ayu has all of these qualities ^o^
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Old 06-28-2007, 08:46 PM   #17
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Re: I'm calling out Dopple!

Quote:
Originally Posted by big bad birtha
I was curious about something. Is there any female characters that you just fall in love with? Like if they have some personality trait that strikes you the right way, and you have to love the character as though it was an actual person? I'm not talking about anything sexual.
The only character in recent memory who was like that was Nia - she's so (genuinely) sweet and caring I took a liking to her, but aside from that she's a typical "damsel in distress" which isn't an archetype I like too much.

My ideal character would be a mild 'tsundere' - I could imagine myself hanging out with someone like that and not pulling my hair out. Strong and independent and not submissive but attractive as well. If you watch Seto no Hanayome, the girl Mawari would be close to the kind of personality I would like.

At the same time, I dislike clumsy/weak girls who don't accomplish stuff, and souless/silent "teh Rei" characters are pretty low on my list as well. Ironically, going by this heuristic, one would assume I would be a Haruhi fan and not a Yuki one, but sadly I don't like the Haruhi personality - there was a girl who I hung out with in High School who was very Haruhi in nature and did Haruhi-like things to me ( ) so I'm kind of turned off by that kind of personality.
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Old 06-28-2007, 09:01 PM   #18
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Re: I'm calling out Dopple!

Oh! BBB reminded me! I'm a huge sucker for what I like to call "Princess Leia Syndrome." Princess Leia Syndrome is when a girl falls in love with a man she used to hate and/or is in love with a man but defiantly denies it and pretends to hate him. Good examples of anime girls with PLS are:

- Narusegawa Naru in Love Hina
- Aoyama Motoko in Love Hina
- Makino Tsukushi in Hana Yori Dango
- Suzumiya Haruhi, in the show of the same name

Of these, Naru is the only one I really "love love" loved, but that's because it takes more than one factor to decide if you like somebody or not, and PLS is but one of many factors a girl might have which makes me interested in her. (Motoko was too butch; Makino was too butch; and Haruhi was too annoying to me.) But I list them as examples of PLS so you can know what I'm talking about. I'd say other examples of PLS in other walks of life include Celes in Final Fantasy VI (whom I absolutely adore), Ronald Weasley in the Harry Potter books (PLS can work both ways! ;) Doesn't just have to be a girl!), and Niles the Butler and Miss Babcock in The Nanny (horrible show, great example).

Also, there are many examples in anime of characters, such as Suigin Tou in Rozen Maiden, who love somebody asexually but still exhibit the signs of PLS (in Suigin Tou's case, her deep attachment to Megu which she coldly denies in Megu's and Shinku's presence).
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Old 06-28-2007, 09:14 PM   #19
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Re: I'm calling out Dopple!

C.C. could end up like that as well - the Japanese adamantly affirm she sees Lelouch as "a partner" but those two act like they're an old married couple and compliment themselves well. A whole lot better than Lelouch-Kallen in my view and more sincere than Lelouch-Kaguya.
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Old 06-28-2007, 09:42 PM   #20
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Re: I'm calling out Dopple!

I think Code Geass is (awkwardly, like a 6-year old girl slipping on her mother's high heels) trying to move Kallen/Karen in the direction of Suzaku. I don't say that just based on the nude scene in the jungle. I think the two of them fit together well, and it would also make sense given that they recently offed Euphemia, opening up Suzaku to bachelor-dom again. So the way I see it ...

Kaguya = this show's Ilya
Lelouch <-> C.C. , and both will probably end up being destroyed by the show's end
Karen <-> Suzaku

I won't even dare to go into Villeta a.k.a. Chigusa. That could go either way once she gets her memories back. "DIE, Eleven scum!" or "Ohhhhhh Ougi. Your cock is soooo big! :slut: " Oh. That's right. We don't have a slut icon. :P ;)
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Old 06-28-2007, 09:51 PM   #21
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Re: I'm calling out Dopple!

Ahh, the Chigusa - Viletta issue. ;_;

There's no specific spoilers about Ougi and Viletta, but from what we have I will guess things will turn out tragically for those two. If the next season of Geass is indeed "Suzaku of the Counter Attack" the show will have officially gone down the road of Gundam SEED Destiny and I won't watch it anymore. :x
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Old 06-28-2007, 10:01 PM   #22
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Re: I'm calling out Dopple!

The three mangas are like telling three different stories in three different Universes using the same cast of characters. That's all they are, from what I understand. And I even understand that the "Lelouch of the Rebellion" manga isn't 100% like the anime, but more like 80% or even 70% similar. While the Nanaly/Nunnally manga is just so completely different that they really couldn't even use that as a "Season 2" any more than they could use Negima's or Chobits' stories with the character roster swapped out to Geass'.

So ... I really don't think you have to worry about the Suzaku one being S2. I think S2 will be "Part 2 of 2 for Lelouch of the Rebellion", unless Sunrise is so [strike:71502]arrogant[/strike:71502] crazy that they think this series warrants a third season and that it won't tank before it reaches that point.
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Old 06-28-2007, 10:10 PM   #23
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Re: I'm calling out Dopple!

I doubt it will ever tank - though I agree Geass is way overhyped by Sunrise, it has too much in common with GSD to be a commercial failure there. The big question is, how will America look at the title?

I'm really curious as to how much Sunrise values American sales, since it would seem logical to me that Japan >>>> America when it comes to DVDs, so people shouldn't care much about making it big in America...but apparently the Japanese value that for some reason.

This is why, despite Gundam SEED and its successor Gundam SEED Destiny being, perhaps, the most successful Gundam series in history (and the most HORRIBLE) with out of control wild sales in Japan, but an extraordinarily poor showing in America (and one that could have bankrupt Bandai USA, which explains why Bandai went out of its way to get a piece of the Haruhi action) there won't be anymore SEED produced. Ever. Which boggles the mind.
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Old 06-28-2007, 11:02 PM   #24
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Re: I'm calling out Dopple!

Yeah, Gundam SEED was insanely popular in Japan, and I have a number of beautiful fanarts of one or two of the main characters from it that I gathered from 1999 to 2003, not knowing who this cute girl (or girls) was (were). But everybody over here seems to hate it, including my friend who is a self-labeled "Gundam expert" (and really does love various Gundams). I always intended to see it, back when I first began to download anime, but I gave up that goal when I was given early reason to believe that I hated mecha animes. (He~llo, dreadful DaiGuard. [ANN] Also known as "broken-down MegaZord fights extraterrestrial Manta Rays causing tectonic disturbances which threaten the very existence of Japan.")

Now that you mention it, I'm interested in it again. :3 Because the girl sure was cute. :3
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Old 06-29-2007, 01:52 AM   #25
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Re: I'm calling out Dopple!

I'll have to give a little background to explain why SEED is popular - it's a bit of a disgrace actually. The fundamentals come first (much of this is hearsay).

...

All "mech" themed shows can be divided into two categories: "super robots" and "real robots". Super robot anime involve the mechs depicted as rare, all-powerful (virtually) secret weapons, and real robot anime with mechs as common tools. A show like Big O with less than twenty mechs in the whole show would be a super robot anime, while an average Gundam series with over two hundred mechs if not more would be a real robot anime. Of our current season, Tengen Toppa Gurren-Lagann is a super robot anime, and Code Geass is a real robot show.

Gundam was the first show to ever be called a "real robot" anime and was also the only show to have a single, connecting focus for the whole show - war, and the influence of war on people. Mobile Suit Gundam was the story of an ill-begotten youth rising from just a common colony citizen to a legendary hero of Planet Earth. Gundam SEED and its successor is a retelling of MSG, but with notable differences.

The first major difference is look. Gundam Wing was the first Gundam to have "bishies" pilot Gundams, and SEED was only the latest story to follow in this step - but to an extreme. Not only are a lot of characters androgynous, they all have the same face. Just swap the hair and maybe some body parts and one can come up with any character - the art is HORRIBLE. If that wasn't enough, battle scenes and the like were reused A LOT, and not just in recaps (which occured something like every third week).

Secondly, SEED differed from MSG in that there was an excessive focus on a small group of characters. MSG was a "larger than life" show in which Amuro Ray was just ONE SMALL PART of the whole universe, if an important part. In SEED, the universe revolves around the main characters and their petty, rather stupid lives.

Thirdly, there was a great deal of graphic violence and sexual stuff, enough to make Geass look celibate in comparison. Given SEED was put on a prime-time television timeslot (8:00 Saturdays if I believe, one of the most presteigous) this is quite a bold statement.

Fourthly, and most critically, there was wanton emo, angst, wangst, and all that. In MSG, there was a character called "Bright Noa" who kept Amuro Ray from degernerating into a patetic pansy by slapping him (literally) into shape - no such character existed in SEED, so all the angst was unregulated and went waaaaaaaaay out of control.

Fifth, in SEED Destiny, the plot ate itself and became incomprehensible, with pilots who were clearly killed in exploding Gundams coming back due to popular demand for no explainable reason, and the whole scope of the story was lost. If there was scope to begin with. Gundam Wing was formerly seen as the "worst" Gundam series in history before SEED Destiny came along and did everything Wing did...only ten times more terrible.

...

Now, what I just outlined is why Americans hated SEED - ultimately, it took a series that critically examined war and defecated on the popular name through an ugly looking "teenage love drama". Japan, surprisingly, shared much of the sentiments of the Americans and hated the series - at least, old time mech fans who grew up with Gundam, now adults, despised the show with great prejudice.

The immeasurable popularity stems from several groups: young boys, girls of all ages, and young adults, for all of whom this was their first mech title. Like Naruto, this is the first show for a lot of new anime fans and they were attracted to a lot of stuff: for the young boys, it was the action. Even though the fights were reused, they couldn't tell the fights were reused on TV, only the poor otaku who bought the expensive DVDs knew how cheated they were. The girls were attracted to the various taboo fetishes (yaoi implications, namely) and the character designs, because they were "bishies" (as was the case with Wing). Unlike Wing, the theme of war wasn't so convoluted as to confuse people but wasn't complex at all - it was a really shallow war drama with very simple causes and cataclysmic results. Adults were attracted because the series talked about a serious issue but "not too seriously" so to say. General ideas, no details.

In America, there were some people like these "new" Japanese but a coalition of the hardcore old mech fans cut them off, if not at the fansub level (where groups dropped off like flies) than by ignoring the franchise totally. SEED got little to no support from any major mech fan communities - it's a banned series.

Bandai USA, of course, expecting SEED to do as well in America as it did in Japan, purchased the title at a premium, went all out for advertising, and mass produced toys, figures, and the like to make the series another "phenomenon" level show. But, since the "newbie" fanbase for mech shows didn't exist (since mechs are stereotyped in Amerca), that stores refused to carry the SEED material (because G Gundam toys didn't sell when it was aired on CN), and the heavily edited CN broadcast earned very low ratings and was not renwed for airing, Bandai USA lost a huge amount of money on the SEED franchise. The DVDs for SEED itself were lower than any other Gundam series (even G), and Destiny barely sold at all.

I don't know how much Bandai lost on SEED, but it is suspected to be even greater a loss than 4Kids Entertainment sucked up for One Piece - at least KDE did OP on the cheap, Bandai went ALL OUT to do everything humanly possile to make SEED a success.
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