10-12-2014, 01:24 PM | #3451 |
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
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Your last move was probably Encore, I've had it one a few Hawlucha sets in Randbats.
Encore is massively annoying on Volbeat.
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10-12-2014, 02:08 PM | #3452 |
Silver LO
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10-12-2014, 02:50 PM | #3453 |
Problematic Fave
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: VA
Posts: 3,199
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In which Meganium wins a match.
This poor person. This is the first time I used this team and he happened to be the lucky sucker who lost to a team full of nothing but Fire and Grass starters.
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10-12-2014, 04:32 PM | #3454 |
時の彼方へ
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
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10-13-2014, 11:32 AM | #3455 |
時の彼方へ
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
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About a week ago, I decided that I wanted to try out a new VGC team. I feel like my current team (Salamence, Rotom-Wash, Mega Charizard Y, Gardevoir, Talonflame, and Aegislash) has done about everything that they can do for me, that whether we want to put blame on them, me, or both I am not going to advance any further than I already have while continuing to use these guys with these moves.
So I went to Nugget Bridge in search of a champion's team that I could use just for fun and see what I can learn from it. I knew that I absolutely did not want to run a rain team, and since 70% of the team on Nugget Bridge in recent weeks seem to have included a Politoed in some form or another, that limited my choices greatly. Of the remaining teams, they were mostly unacceptable to me for one reason or another. I gave Gebebo's Worlds team a second look, however, and when I realized that I wasn't likely to find a better team any time soon, I said, "Sure, why not" and ran with it. (You can find a list that's very easy to copy and paste into Showdown here. Scroll down for the English text with the list of all six creatures' details and that's it.) The team isn't an ideal fit for how I play, but it isn't entirely alien either. An enormous component of this team's strength or weakness is knowing who to bring to which battles. The team is very unforgiving if you bring the wrong four or if you lead off with the wrong two. Part of this is because Charizard isn't that splendid without the sun up and Mawile isn't that strong offensively or defensively without her mega form either, and so you really have to know whether to bring one, the other, or both; and in games where you bring both, you have to know who is going to be the one mega evolving and who isn't. Another part of it is because many of the team's members share weaknesses common to a variety of attacking duos. Hydreigon and Garchomp are both weak to Dragon; both of them plus Aerodactyl are weak to Ice; Aerodactyl and Charizard are both weak to Rock; and Aerodactyl and Charizard are both weak to Electric. Gebebo tries to circumvent this problem by gifting Protect to all four of his non-choice locked creatures; but, I often find that the two dragons are in need of Protect as well. So what does the team do well? Well, Aerodactyl is definitely the star momentum setter. His two most important moves are Tailwind and Taunt, respectively. Tailwind has broad applications: it will always make you 2x faster than you were before for the next four turns. It's an excellent way to make everyone else on your team faster than the enemies' Choice Scarf users or naturally fast Pokémon and is something I'd been using for a while on my old team via Talonflame. Taunt is much more niche but much more potent as well: you use it to utterly cripple certain Pokémon who are slower than Aerodactyl and lack priority to defend against it. Examples include Amoongus, Aegislash, Hariyama, and any Dragon Dance user. One of the battles I'll link below will show you an example where I specifically screw over both a Dragon Dance Tyranitar and a Wide Guard Aegislash in the same battle. Even though priority users (Meowstic-M, Liepard) and rival Aerodactyl are less safe to target, just having Aerodactyl on the field is helpful in creating uncertainty for them to have to grapple with. "Is he going to Taunt me? Maybe I should Taunt him first then. But wait, what if he's going to call that and use Rock Slide instead? Shoot ..." Mega Charizard Y is the guy I relied on most heavily with my old team and things aren't too different here. Any time I see a rain team, I know I'll be bringing him. It's 50/50 between him and Mega Mawile when I see Tyranitar; it largely depends on who all else is on the team. Charizard is great for his powerful Heat Wave attack. Solarbeam is there to take care of susceptible Pokémon like Politoed, Azumarill, and Tyranitar. Most pros suggest Overheat in the final slot but I'm not a fan, tbh. I'm thinking about replacing it with Ancient Power, a move on my old Mega Charizard Y encouraged by rotomotorz months ago. I'm really not a fan of Gebebo's Mamoswine. :\ Much like my own Mamoswine in OU, Gebebo's just isn't living up to his advertised potential. It's rare for enemies to let him hit valid targets with Icicle Crash or Ice Shard; and his Earthquake doesn't play nice with Mega Mawile, making that particular duo poisonously predictable. I'm thinking of replacing Life Orb with Choice Scarf, replacing Protect and Ice Shard with Stone Edge and Superpower, and seeing how he does. I've never gotten to use a Mega Mawile regularly before now but I have long wanted to. Gebebo's is fine but illustrates a disappointing problem with Mega Mawile: Four Moveslot Syndrome. Gebebo's lack of Iron Head is very noticeable. He has Rough Play (good), Fire Fang (situational), and Sucker Punch (good). For his fourth move he has Protect, and I think that's a smart choice not only because of allies who want to use Earthquake but because of enemies who want to use Ground or Fire-type attacks of their own. This leaves Mega Mawile in the unsavory position of having to either axe Rough Play, Iron Head, Fire Fang, or Sucker Punch. Since Iron Head and Rough Play do roughly equal damage to Tyranitar and since Rough Play has the added bonus of hurting dragons, it's clear why Gebebo kept it and gave Iron Head the boot. But there have been a few times where I've really wished I had Iron Head on the set. I expect this will become more relevant in VGC 2015 with the arrival of more fairies like Togekiss and Mega Audino. But enough about that! You want to see some battles! Wherein I fake out the Fake Outer. (VGC 2014, 6 turns) Spoiler: show Wherein I look like I'm losing the entire time. (VGC 2014, 9 turns) Spoiler: show Wherein Charizard wants to burn everything and Aerodactyl wants to taunt everyone. (VGC 2014, 5 turns) Spoiler: show I'm hoping to see this team carry me into the 1500s. It would be nice. I've never managed to break 1500 and it would be not only a nice boost to my own morale but would also be nice "street cred" with the other VGCers who hang out in the VGC room.
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10-13-2014, 02:23 PM | #3456 |
Problematic Fave
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10-13-2014, 02:28 PM | #3457 |
Fallen from the Stars
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10-13-2014, 03:21 PM | #3458 | |
時の彼方へ
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
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Wherein I take on a titan. (VGC 2014, 12 turns)
Spoiler: show I signed up for a tournament in the VGC chat room. Here were my games: Round 1, Round 2, Round 3, and Round 4. The guy I ended up against in the semifinals is, I believe, someone who goes to tournaments in real life. (Though I don't know if he's anyone particularly famous.) Apparently he's an accomplished Random Battle battler too! (Strange that I don't recall having ever seen him despite doing thousands of Random Battles ... ) I think I did pretty well all things considered. I bungled my final showing but meh: live and learn. After the tournament ended, I decided to do a few more games. And ... 1509, ladies and gentlemen! I did it. I finally made it to 1500. It's disappointing to not have done it with a team built from the ground up by my own two hands, but it's also comforting to know that, to at least some extent, it was my old team holding me back. And it's exciting to see just how much further I might be able to go. Quote:
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10-13-2014, 03:35 PM | #3459 |
Fallen from the Stars
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Yeah, because it was close. Of course, it wouldn't have been if I hadn't misplayed as much as I did.
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10-13-2014, 03:45 PM | #3460 |
Problematic Fave
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Oh man, I liked your semifinals battle. Very intense. I completely forgot about the combo moves...maybe I should try them in vgc :P
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10-13-2014, 03:50 PM | #3461 |
Think ye can take me?
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Probably in the US
Posts: 2,524
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They're hard to cooridnate and are fairly gimmicky but if you can make them work than good for you
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10-14-2014, 01:35 AM | #3462 |
時の彼方へ
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
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In Smogon news: so, a few months ago there was talk of banning Mega Gengar from Ubers ... it ended up not happening, with a reportedly overwhelming majority of voters voting against the ban, but now those crazy ban-happy mods are at it again! And this time they don't just want to ban Mega Gengar -- they want the whole kit and caboodle! Mega Gengar, Wobbuffet, and Gothitelle: every Shadow Tag user is on the chopping block! Reading through the thread is every bit as painful as reading through the ban discussions in OU: a bunch of ordinary users explaining, to varying degrees of rationality and intelligence, why the ban is a bad idea; and a cadre of staff members who have taken the old saying, "Repeat a lie enough times and it becomes true" to heart and just keep repeating ad nauseum, "No, no, no! You're wrong, I'mma tell you why you're wrong, just ... UGH! YOU'RE WRONG!
Frankly this is both childish and stupid. A global ban of Shadow Tag as a follow-up ban to a ban of Mega Gengar would have made sense. "We banned the tip of the iceberg, but now to get the other 90%!" But the moment the people spoke loudly and clearly that they didn't want Mega Gengar banned, that should have put an end to it as far as debating banning Shadow Tag separately was concerned. There is a lot of doublethink in the mods' posts justifying their actions, but common sense is pretty loud and clear on this one: if you ask me if I want to ban BLT sandwiches and I say, "No! ", you don't then waste my time asking me, "Okay ... well how about banning bacon in general? :o" If I said I want to keep my BLTs, then it should go without saying that I don't want to separately ban the T, the L, or the B.
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10-14-2014, 05:44 AM | #3463 |
Naga's Voice
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: somewhere gay idk
Posts: 3,280
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Reading that...what the actual fuck Smogon. People were pretty damn vocal about not wanting MeGengar banned from Ubers, so trying to ban somewhat luck based creatures like Wobbuffet and other things who ended up with Shadow Tag just reeks of another shot at a MeGengar ban in a blanket ban's clothing, as MeGengar is the only one with the potential to actively trap and kill more than once, and thus that's probably why they want him gone in the first place. MeGengar is really the only Shadow Tag user who poses a huge threat. But even its multikill potential can be wasted easily after the first kill it makes, and if you smash it before it makes one, even better for you.
But really, if the community is fine with MeGengar, the community is fine with Shadow Tag and its clear the mods are trying to force it through to make sure MeGengar is banned at some point.
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10-14-2014, 08:40 AM | #3464 |
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
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I don't know why this is a big deal, if the community didn't vote for Mega Gengar who is the only relevant user of Shadow Tag in Ubers, most of them will be smart enough not to allow this ban through. This is just going to leave Smogon with egg on their face.
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10-14-2014, 09:43 AM | #3465 | |
時の彼方へ
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Quote:
If the global Shadow Tag ban fails: everyone teases that Smogon was just wasting time, a few moderators were butthurt, etc. The matter is forgotten in several months aside from the vague memory of the one time Smogon tried to ban Mega Gengar from Ubers and it failed.If someone asks you, "Do you want to ban The Hobbit from libraries?" and you answer, "No," they shouldn't then ask if you want to ban the collective works of J. R. R. Tolkien. If someone asks you, "Do you want to ban smoking in bars?" and you answer, "No," they shouldn't then ask if you want to ban smoking in the entire city. And if someone asks you if you want ban Mega Gengar from Ubers and you answer, "No," they shouldn't then ask you if you want to ban all Shadow Tag users from the tier -- not when Mega Gengar's only possible ability is Shadow Tag. The worst thing about this ban is the doublethink. The proponents of the ban are performing incredible feats of mental gymnastics to try and defend their position, but at the end of the day it's obvious what's going on here. Think about it like this: imagine if the staff had gone from the failed Mega Gengar suspect test to a new suspect test that was looking at all Gengars period. Wouldn't it be transparently obvious that they were simply hungry for a second shot at banning Mega Gengar? Wouldn't it be ridiculous on the face of it to ask a community who said "No! " to banning Mega Gengar if they would like to ban Mega Gengar and regular Gengar too? Like I said before, I wouldn't have had any problem with this follow-up suspect test if it were following up a successful ban of Mega Gengar. Then it would have made sense. "We asked the people if they wanted to ban Mega Gengar and they answered 'Yes.' So now we want to know, was it just Mega Gengar they wanted gone? Or do they hate all of Shadow Tag period?" I feel like the suspect tests were ordered in the order they were specifically to ensure as few casualties as possible. Had the public been angrier about Shadow Tag Gengar than they turned out to be, and had the first suspect test on the docket been a global Shadow Tag ban, it might have passed too easily and created collateral damage in Wobbuffet and to a lesser extent Gothitelle. (More on this below.) So they purposely organized the tests in the manner they did -- starting with the small, focused suspect test first and then having the broader suspect test potentially second -- so as to a. give people who only hated Mega Gengar the opportunity to calmly ban the one without banning everything else, and b. to save everybody a bunch of time should the community vote "No!" to a Mega Gengar ban anyway. But instead, despite the order of the proposed tests and the result of the first, we're still pushing ahead with the second test. Because [oh puh-lease] "You never know! There could be some people who didn't want Mega Gengar banned while Gothitelle was still running amok! So they would vote 'No' to a solo Mega Gengar ban but would vote 'Yes' to a global Shadow Tag ban!" [/oh puh-lease] All of this stated, some of you have been commenting that Gothitelle is irrelevant in Ubers. And apparently that isn't the case. Most of the discussion seems to have focused on Gothitelle's niche as a trapper with workable defenses and support moves. Mega Gengar's whole schtick seems to be 1) trapping prey to slaughter with attacks or else 2) trapping things it can weather out whilst Perish Song does its worst. But with Gothitelle, it sounds like what's happening is something like this:
I just don't think they're going about it the right way. If your problem is truly with Gothitelle, then discuss banning Gothitelle specifically. By making the ban something which would affect not only Gothitelle but also Mega Gengar, even though the community just said they want Mega Gengar to stay, it reeks of charlatanry and sour grapes.
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10-14-2014, 10:01 AM | #3466 |
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
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>Charm Gothitelle
Is this Gen II??? Are we in an Umbreon format??? Honestly that's one of the worst justifications for the ban I've ever seen. A gimmick Pokemon. A Pokemon that can't switch in on any of the tier's special attackers, can only switch in on a limited number of the physical attackers, and whose entire basis is to allow Xerneas to set up? How is this worse than Mega Gengar who got rid of a counter on your opponent's team? This is sheer lunacy. O.o
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10-14-2014, 10:18 AM | #3467 |
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Nonono. Guys. Gothitelle is super broken. Here is a video to prove it.
Posted by some random in the thread. Unbelievable power. I am convinced.
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10-14-2014, 10:30 AM | #3468 |
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
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Gothitelle can use the same set in OU, and it completely blows.
People are out of their fucking minds.
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10-14-2014, 10:35 AM | #3469 |
a quick fly cuppa
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110 base special defense is good at +6, and that proves nowt.
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10-14-2014, 10:49 AM | #3470 |
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It still blows in Ubers. That guy put Gothitelle against Xerneas, a special attacker, and Calm Minded/Rested up to +4/+4. Meanwhile, the rest of the match, he took out his opponent's physical threats, leaving only special attackers to fight Gothitelle. Meanwhile, he defeated Mega Gengar, who by the way carries Shadow Tag. Meanwhile, GOTHITELLE STILL DIED TO KYOGRE.
Shadow Tag OP! I am 100% done with smogon. Last edited by Shuckle; 10-14-2014 at 12:07 PM. |
10-14-2014, 05:06 PM | #3471 |
Sarasaland represent!
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10-14-2014, 07:31 PM | #3472 | |
Problematic Fave
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Quote:
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10-15-2014, 04:02 AM | #3473 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,729
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I thought we established that we didn't care about Smogon months back?
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10-15-2014, 11:14 AM | #3474 | |
Problematic Fave
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Quote:
It's a bit like the US back in the colonial days, where a great deal of the colonists grew to despise the British tax rates but couldn't do anything about them until several years later.
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10-15-2014, 11:20 AM | #3475 |
時の彼方へ
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Posts: 20,578
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Sorry. Couldn't help myself.
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