!@#$% Stupid Twilight Princess!

[Talon87]

The bridge is already fixed. I rode over it on Epona to reach the Goron I'm talking about.

The Goron I'm talking about is the Castle Town Goron tot's dad. The one who sits out by the west exit and sighs. He used to say that he couldn't get any hot spring water because the bridge was out; now that it's fixed, though, his excuse has changed to "I would get off my butt and sell hot spring water again, but I'm too ... *sigh* ... I'm sure I'd be in better spirits if I could just douse myself in some hot spring water right now ..." So he's obviously asking to be soaked in the stuff, and I'm ready to oblige, but ...

Barrel, you say? Where does one go to get this barrel? Death Mountain? I'll head off there right now and investigate, see if anybody at the Goron hot springs has got barrels. Man, that'll be a son of a bitch, though, to get to him without it cooling down, considering you can't warp. @_@ Gotta go all the way down Death Mountain by foot, hop on Epona parked right outside the pathway leading to Death Mountain from Kakariko Village, and then ride her the same distance as I've been doing before. Man ... sounds ... like your typical Zelda sidequest. -_-;

Save me the pain, please, and tell me what I get out of it if I soak this big guy in water. If it's a piece of heart or a hundred rupees, I'll pass. If it's the clean shoes I need to enter the sword shop in Castle Town, a better wallet upgrade, etc., then I'll try my best.

Speaking of which, I did get the wallet upgrade. I took the male ant to Agitha and she gave me a wallet that can hold up to 600 rupees. Not quite what I would have wanted (remember? "1000 please ;_;"), but hey, better than the 500 I was fearing it might be. by 100 rupees, stingy bastards

[Loki]

Oh. That's way bad/late then xd.

The barrel quest was one to fix the bridge. If you finished it, you the cost of getting Malo's shop in Castle Town drops considerably IIRC. This one is something else. And I doubt it matters. The only thing the Goron sells in Castle Town is Hot Springwater, which is worthless compared to Jelly and such.

[Talon87]

Damn it. I had purple chu jelly in a bottle, too, but I dumped it in favor of a second fairy. Didn't realize chu jelly really was useful for consumption this time; I figured it was necessary for a quest (like in OoT where you needed various ingredients for a witch's brew).

The barrel is right now, actually. Because I just figured out how to do it. ^_^; Sorry to burst your bubble.
1- You talk to the elder meditating outside of Malo's.
2- He says, "Let me guess. You've repaired the bridge, but that young one of mine is just sitting on his butt doing nothing. Well, I tell you what! I'll prepare a barrel of hot spring water for you, and you go douse him! How does that sound? Will you help me? [Y/N]"
3- After you say "Yes," you're suddenly on Hyrule Field holding a barrel with Malo's face on the side. You have to put the barrel down on the land to kill the burrowing creatures, otherwise they'll knock into you eventually (with superior numbers) and knock the barrel out of your hands. Same for buzzards. I just ignored goblins.
4- I was this close to the bridge (like, almost ready to hit wood) when some more tunnelers came out. Not taking any chances, I put down the barrel one last time ... except the fucking Wii interpreted my standing Link hitting the A button as "throw barrel," so he threw it. Even though he'd been able to put it down on the ground plenty of times before.

I really hate Zelda sidequests for this very reason: they're over-the-top annoying and hard to accomplish with minimal gain. I only ever do them when I have to do them (e.g. you'll get a 9999 Rupee wallet if you do this for me, and getting such a wallet will save you hours of going back and forth to and from Kakariko Village) or when I really, really have to do them (e.g. you'll get the boomerang from me if you do this. This is not an option. This is a must).

So ... I just turned off the Wii in frustration, but when I play tomorrow (Mom'll be home soon), I'll just head off to the snow-covered mountain instead of fucking around with the Goron.

Btw ... where is the female ant? Agitha claims that females are very often near males, but I've only found four bugs so far ...

- male ant in the graveyard
- male grasshopper outside Kakariko
- male ladybug near the rock pillar right by Castle Town's south exit stairs
- female ladybug on a garden shrub-tree on Castle Town's south exit stairs

So the ladybugs were close, but I didn't see a female grasshopper (didn't try) and I sure as hell can't find a female ant (I have scoured the graveyard and the Zora cemetary.

That reminds me ... am I supposed to be able to do anything with the Zora Prince yet? He's still being emo, no matter what items I pull out.

[Loki]

Purple Jellies are bad. They do random healing or damage. Rare Chu Jelly (it looks silver and sparkly before killing and scooping) are the best. Red and Blue are okay. But sometimes Jellies like to merge and they turn Purple, which sucks. You might full heal, or heal 3, or be reduced to half a heart.... >>;;

As for the barrel situation, cling to the edge of the territories and you won't run into as many monsters. Avoid fights at all costs, as they take too long and if you're hit while holding it, you drops the barrel and it's wasted. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes to finish this quest if you don't run into any fights.

Just because the golden ant was in the graveyard doesn't mean it's partner will be there too. Try checking the entire village and even the Goron village and anyplace in between. I'm pretty sure it wasn't in the Goron Village, but for some of the others, it's practically the other side of the area.

Did you defrost the frozen fish people? I think he gets less emo after that.

[Talon87]

Yeah, you have to defrost the frozen fish people to even begin the Zora Temple quest. (So that was a while back.)

He's unconscious all through that, iirc, but he eventually comes to after his mother's spirit passes on for good. He hangs out in the Zora hidden cemetary (behind Kakariko's graveyard) because I think he feels like he's closer to his mother that way. I dunno. But regardless of his fictional motives, I just want to know what the hell I'm supposed to do to get him to leave the cave and go back to become the king of his people. I should probably go visit the Zoras again (I haven't so much as said "Hello" since entering their dungeon) and see if any of them initiates the "Fetch the Prince!" mission.)

[Loki]

Did you do that mission with the abominable snowman yet? Or was he a Yeti? By that time I think you get something from him and he is either back with his people by then or he will go back sometime around then. I can't remember off the top of my head.

[Talon87]

No yeti missions just yet. I have yet to actually set out for the snowy mountain. I decided it would be worth my while to try and see if there were any item upgrades I could manage while I was in Castle Town (since the last time I tried was pre-water temple), and here's what I found ...

- Castle Town East Road's troupe guy --> if you have the clawshot, you can get all the fuzzy lights and get a quiver upgrade (from 30 to 60). I can't manage to get all the fuzzy lights on the 2nd go around; I'm either not good enough and need more practice or else I am missing whatever tool makes the mission possible. (I get close as is ... like, 8-12 lights left when time runs out. Not close enough to know for certain I could do it now, but close enough that I could believe it if you told me so.)

- Agitha --> wallet upgrade from 300 rupees (base) to 600 rupees

That's it. That's all the upgrades I've found. My bomb bag still holds 30 regular / 15 water bombs maximum. I still have only two bottles. I have exactly 9 hearts right now (zero pieces). So on and so forth.

I really enjoyed that spinny-top item you get in the Gerudo dungeon, but man if it isn't shit worthless outside of rails and gears. Like, if you don't see a rail, and you don't see a gear, then the top is worthless. Which is unfortunate.

[Loki]

Have you tried the fishing hole? There's a bottle at a certain pond next to a certain sign about pollution. Near the fishing hole is also a rapid rivers mini-game challenge that also has a special item for you. After you finish it once, you can do it again with a new challenge to get that item upgraded.

You need another item that comes later to get the bigger arrow quiver case. As for getting more bugs for Agitha, you just need to play through the game, as there are more golden bugs much later on in the game after you unlock more areas.

[Talon87]

The only things I tried at Lake Hylia were:
1- the cannon (towards the chickens, into the Gerudo desert), and
2- the chicken ride over Lake Hylia (best I ever got iirc was 2nd platform, i.e. not the top one and not the moving one on the VERY top)

I figured I would try those things later if I was directed back there, since I'm guessing the chests contain nothing but rupees and a piece of heart. (The one I opened was either 50 or 100 Rupees, iirc. And the ones on lower platforms were of course lower.)

So no, I haven't tried to fish or canoe or anything. I guess I should. I was not impressed by fishing (in the very beginning of the game), so I've avoided it like the plague until now. Maybe I should give it another go. Tell me, are bee larvae any good as bait? Or are they the cheapest bait one can find and one can purchase bait at the fishing hole which works much better? If the larvae work well, I've got several places I know I can go (like Kakariko Graveyard) to fetch some. If they're shitty, then I'll just purchase bait when I get to the fishing hole.

Come to think of it ... how does one get to the fishing hole. O_o

[Talon87]

Turned on the game, warped to Lake Hylia, tried to find the fishing hole for 30 seconds, hopped into the cannon and decided to go to the Gerduo Desert instead. Accomplishments:

• I never got the Gerudo warp point in the far east. I just headed straight for the Gerudo fortress and worked my way through it. So when I was exploring today, I had the fight against those three shadow beasts, and I was also able to (finally!) retrieve the Bridge of Eldin's missing piece. Should have done that ages ago, I realize, but I'd missed it up until now.[/*fkypb1y9]
• Captured several new bugs, but no new pairings, unfortunately. Found a female stickbug near the Bridge of Eldin, a male dragonfly in Zora's Domain, and a male dayfly in the Gerudo Desert.[/*fkypb1y9]
• Got seven new poes, bumping me up to 25.
  19. Zora's Domain #1
  20. Zora's Domain #2
  21. Gerudo Desert - near the tower where you fight the three shadow creatures
  22. Gerudo Desert - northwest of where you arrive by cannon, right above the entrance to the secret lair where two others lie
  23. Gerudo Desert - dead east of where you arrive via cannon
  24. Gerudo Desert - in the lair you have to dig your way into and light three pyres #1
  25. Gerudo Desert - in the lair you have to dig your way into and light three pyres #2[/*fkypb1y9]
• Talked to Jovani. He can move again, but told the "little doggie" that he needs me to capture a total of 60 Poes, not 20. Thanks a fucking lot, Jovani. Just like Loki said it would be. I was expecting 40, though ... not 60.[/*fkypb1y9]
• He did give me my third bottle, though. Contains Fairy Tears. I suppose this'll come in handy some time, but for now (since I'm too afraid to dump its contents), it's effectively a non-existent addition to my bottle inventory. Because I was wanting more bottles for storing random expendable shit in. [/*fkypb1y9]
• Found at least two places in Hyrule Field that make use of the Spinner. One was just past the Bridge of Eldin where you find all those goblins shooting arrows at you. Just before you cross a small wooden bridge, there's an area to spin onto. Or maybe it was just past it. Anyway, that was one of the spots. The second spot was somewhere north of Hyrule Castle where you have fun (imo) jumping from rail to rail and you eventually find a treasure chest that contains a piece of heart.[/*fkypb1y9]
• Went back to Kakariko and, after one failed attempt before it, I finally managed to succeed in the hot water mission. And lo and behold, I did it by following Loki's advice of just daintily avoid the tunnelers. There were some close calls, but whenever they tried to crash into me, I just headed in an unexpected direction and threw 'em off course. Seemed to work okay. I also got lucky in that zero buzzards attempted to catch me this time. No idea why. So I doused the Emo Goron, got a piece of heart from him, and now he's in Castle Town, not giving me the assistance I was told by townspeople he would give me -- assistance for getting into the sword shop.[/*fkypb1y9]
• Still haven't touched my next main quest point though. While I did enter Zora's Domain, I made an effort of avoiding contact with the girl just in case she'd whisk me off to the snowy mountain. There were a few Zoras who said things about the upcoming plot point like "There's a strange girl here," "A monster keeps coming down from the mountain," etc. etc., so it was sort of funny when I told the Zora who offered to take me up to the throne room "NO." I'm obviously in the right spot for when I decide to play again.[/*fkypb1y9]
• I was going to start it, but my sister wanted to do Wii Boxing, and I mentioned I wanted to show them the cool Spinner boss battle (with the possessed skeleton) so I could erase that Save File when the time came to do so. So I turned off my current file, loaded up that one, beat the guy again, and then took out the disc for some Wii Sports. Now I'm here in my room relaxing for a bit. Probably won't touch Zelda till tomorrow, but who knows.[/*fkypb1y9]

[Loki]

I don't know why you're so fearful of going to the next stage of the story. You can save just before you talk to whoever bumps you forward. And you can Warp!

[Talon87]

I've played one too many games where ...

1. You got within X feet of the "trigger point", e.g. a character like her.
2. A cutscene begins.
3. Next thing you know, the cutscene fades to black, and when it fades back in, you're standing somewhere miles away, e.g. at the foot of a mountain.
4. Whatever ability you had to leave is stripped from you temporarily until you complete this mission, e.g. Midna tells you she has to hide and can't transform you or warp you.

Things of that nature. I agree about the save point you made, but the thing is, it's a hassle.

[ajnrules]

Hey, I'm about where you are in my 5th playthrough of Twilight Princess. XD

[Talon87]

Judging from this thread, it was on January 1, 2008 that I last played Twilight Princess. Then several days ago, the Pixiv user Ag+ shared this gift with the world, a drawing he drew up in honor of the 25th Anniversary for the Zelda series, and upon seeing it I found myself re-intrigued by Zelda and decided I'd give Twilight Princess a second shot. Not from the start, mind you! Oh no! Not after the terrible experience I had with the covered wagon and the mid-game sidequest grind! (Reading back through this thread has been an enjoyable and hilarious trip down Memory Lane! Special thanks to Zora and Loki for their patience and assistance.) No, I decided I would start back up right from where I left off -- and I did it completely cold since I had no idea to check UPN for an old thread I might have posted in (or created!? ) nor did I take a close look at the inside of my Wii game box where I had written and tucked away numerous slips of paper with hand-written notes on them for my future use!

Anyway, point is, I picked the game back up a few days ago (Thursday or Friday) and this morning I finally beat the game. So, some thoughts I'd like to add on in case the me in the future comes back and reads this post ...

First off, I didn't rage nearly so much at the game as I seemed to have raged back in '07. That doesn't excuse the covered wagon mission or the barrel of hot water mission from being retardedly picky and difficult, but it does mean that perhaps if you were to go back and give the game a complete second try in the future you wouldn't find it to be so unpleasant. Yes, dungeons are still a chore to you, Talon, a chore as ever they have been since you first played Ocarina of Time on Jozef's N64. But the minibosses and bosses in this game are second only to those in Wind Waker with some truly memorable additions to the franchise in the forms of the final boss for the Arbiter's Grounds (the skull-dragon you defeat with the top) and the final boss for the castle in the sky (the living dragon you defeat in a spectacular aerial battle using your double hookshots clawshots). And yes, Talon, the game is still chock full of ridiculous side quests: but thankfully in Twilight Princess you genuinely don't have to do them and fear missing out on some great stuff because, guess what , most of the prizes are unnecessary except for further grinding. (Like, you don't need the 1000-rupee wallet unless you absolutely have to have and intend to use the Magic Armor. And you don't need the Magic Armor anyway unless you're going into the Cave of Ordeals, and all that gets you is the opportunity to refill one bottle with Great Fairy Tears at any of four chosen springs in the land.) This is not a case of Goron's Knife bragging rights like in Ocarina of Time nor is it a case of getting Psycho Pocket early or else missing out on like half of the items like in Xenosaga 2. You can totally ignore collecting all of Agitha's bugs, completing the circus clawshot guy's second (harder) challenge, or even getting all seven Howling Stones (which we did anyway since that one was actually fun and easy since there were only six stones in all to get).

Don't get me wrong, though: you got so stressed out playing the game on Saturday (sky dungeon + first half of the Twilight dungeon, the bit with fetching the Sols) that you actually developed a baby migraine and had to spend the entirety of your Saturday evening from like 5pm onward resting in bed. So yeah, Zelda still isn't your cup of tea, Talon. But ........... I don't want you to think it was as bad as the earlier posts in this thread might make it out to be.


Second, some stuff to add about the plot line. Apparently Nintendo's logic is this:

• When you beat Ocarina of Time, Zelda sends you back manually into the past. Specifically, she makes you a child and she sends you back to before Ganon has an opportunity to get his hands on the Triforce.
• Child Link and Child Zelda are able to convince the king of Ganondorf's treachery. He is apprehended and sentenced to death before he can even do anything.

So Nintendo's argument is that Wind Waker is the sequel to Ocarina of Time's Adult Link pathway but Twilight Princess is the sequel to Ocarina of Time's Child Link pathway. Obviously there are problems with this (like the fact that for what we wrote in the bullets above to work, there'd have to be two Child Links in the past since the new Child Link was sent back to before his first version ever set off for the Temple of Time, and that the new Child Link's actions would strip the old Child Link of his purpose, creating a temporal paradox), but the Zelda series is about as temporally accurate as Back to the Future -- actually, that's insulting even to BTTF -- and so I'd ask you not to sweat it too much. Just roll with it. Bear it on your chin, or whatever, and let it slide. But yeah: the idea is supposed to be that TP is the other WW. Both are sequels to OoT, but in one the Hero of Time vanishes, Ganon escapes from the corrupted Sacred Realm to which he was banished, and Hyrule ultimately becomes submerged under oceans of water; and in the other, the Hero of Time remains behind except he doesn't because he goes on his lame Majora's Mask adventure , Ganon is banished to a Twilight Realm instead of to a (still pristine?) Sacred Realm, and he escapes from there with the help of a bad, power-hungry Twili. So ... yeah. If they do decide to place Zelda 1 and Zelda 2 from the NES on a timeline, they're probably going to have to fall under the OoT/TP timeline. Likewise, this may bode poorly for your beloved Wind Waker race, the Rito, since it suggests that outside of the direct sequels to Wind Waker made for the NDS that you're not going to get any future Zelda games on the OoT/WW timeline. Which sucks balls. But whatever. I guess it can't be helped since OoT Adult Zelda wasn't so wise after all and she fucking split the timeline when she sent Link back to change history. Way to go, Princess. Now you've just robbed the land of the Hero of Time's genealogy. Unless he knocked you up in the one week he was there in the future doing shit.


Third, some stuff about the final boss fights ............ later. I'll post this for now and take a break. ^^;

[Talon87]

Okay, took my break. Third, some stuff about the final boss fights. It should go without saying, but WARNING: END GAME SPOILERS FOLLOW so quit reading if you haven't beaten the game but plan to play it for yourself some day, Reader. Anyway ...

I don't know whether they consider it a Zelda tradition they're eager to keep alive or a chore they're enshackled to thanks to the rabid fanbase who'd hang, draw, and quarter them if they were to deviate from the formula, but Nintendo seem to be really fond of their 3+ back-to-back boss fights for the final boss. I mean, seriously. They had two stages in Ocarina of Time (three or more if you count the dungeon revisits and the flee-the-crumbling-castle interlude), they had three in Wind Waker (at least two for Puppet Ganon and then of course the rooftop fight against the real deal), and here in Twilight Princess they have four. And that's just Ganon: if you count Zant (whose dungeon is back-to-back with Ganon's dungeon), then you get to throw in all of the dungeon revisits that you had in OoT and WW, too. But anyway, yeah: strictly speaking, Twilight Princess had four different boss fights for the final boss. So here they are in order and my thoughts ...


Boss 1. Zelda, Ganon's Puppet
This fight was interesting simply because you were forced to fight against Princess Zelda (in body only). That was about it. I'm all for nods to the fans and homages to past works and what not, but c'mon guys: Phantom Ganon again!? How many times have we seen this fight? Bouncing a magical orb back and forth between my sword and his (or hers, as the case was) is fun the first time you see it. For me, that was in Ocarina of Time. The fight against the poltergeist Ganon inhabiting the paintings in that haunted house in the forest is a memorable one, to be sure. The second time I saw it was in Wind Waker. I had a blast fighting Phantom Ganon at Ganon's hideout. The third time I saw it was when friends at Caltech were all saying Link to the Past was the best Zelda ever and, by random chance, I happened to see somebody fighting that exact fight when I was walking past his bedroom, door wide open, and saw him playing what was recognizably an LTTP rom on his computer. I was like, "Oh wow! So THIS is where the bouncing the ball back and forth idea came from! "

So I mean, I guess I'm kind of proving Nintendo's probable point -- which is that including the fight every game is a good thing for the fans who've never seen it before -- but my point is that this sort of fight has no business in the final boss fight. Not any more. Maybe it did in Ocarina of Time (where even there it was an homage to the same mechanic used in a fight in LTTP). But Wind Waker at least had the good sense to relegate Phantom Ganon to miniboss status of a midgame dungeon, not final boss status of the last dungeon.


Boss 2. Ganon, the Pig King
Okay, this was very cool thematically. But as far as fights go, it was pretty simple. I was hoping for a little more substance. I found the fight was most fun in the first half when it actually involved some skill (shooting arrows at Ganon's white diamond mark on his forehead). The Midna bit was story-wise delectable :-) but final boss fight-wise it turned the fight pretty boring and easy. Just look for the one red portal which turns blue, hit A when instructed to by the game, rattle the nunchuk's control stick left and right, and then go bite Ganon's belly. Repeat once and you're done with this fight.


Boss 3. The Epic Horseback Fight
Okay, this fight was pretty fucking epic thematically. The look of it. The premise of it. It was just rad. A huge open field. Ganon and his famous black steed from OoT (which still doesn't have a name, oddly enough). Me helping Princess Zelda up onto Epona and us tag teaming it up on Ganon. This was amazing. More final fights should be like this one was ...

... thematically. Because the execution of this fight was anything but awesome. It was a disaster.

Where do we begin? How about Ganon's A.I.? Talk about fucking ridiculous! I mean, I guess I should be glad that they made the King of Thieves, the wielder of the Triforce of Power, the man once known as Ganondorf into this epically hardcore menace. But what the fuck, guys: I get on Epona, I gallop like two patches of grass, and I'm knocked off by Ganon? I follow your instructions to Z-target him except I can't Z-target him and then all of a sudden he sends ghosts at me? Eventually, you figure these things out either the hard way -- trial and error -- or the easy way, which we did, a good ol' FAQ. And what did the FAQ tell us?

"You're doing it right."

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFffffffffffffffffffffffff fffffffffff--

Needless to say, this fight took a toll on our patience and our life bar, but ultimately we got him. I blame Zelda for being the world's worst sidekick in a tag team boss battle. (SHOOT THE GODDAMN ARROWS!) Every time we hit Ganon, though, it was pretty easy to run up alongside him and whack him with our sword. Our problem was just how often he'd chase after us in circles (and 50% of the time win the contest, knocking us to the ground). It was hard to put distance between me and Ganon, even harder to translate that distance into me staring at his behind (so Zelda'd aim at him) rather than me staring at his face (which usually meant INCOMING MISSILE! ).


Boss 4. Ganondorf vs. Link, mono e mono, Sword of the Sages vs. the Master Sword
This was also a really epic fight in theme and atmosphere. Ganon is so perfectly animated in this fight. How he walks. How he attacks. Everything. He is the embodiment of smug, confident power. And he is powerful.

But again, this fight like the one before it really suffers in the execution. Because they basically made the fight a 15/16 No Contest 1/16 QTE boss fight. What do I mean?

I'd say 75% of the time (so, 12/16 times), Ganondorf attacks you in any way but the one way which he has to attack you in for you to advance in this fight. And that's for him to activate your Chance option. "Chance" is an option they coded just for this fight and it's basically a QTE. It says, "Hit the A button for a chance to get into a swordlock with Ganondorf. Then tap A a bunch to win the swordlock and you'll be free to hit Ganondorf four times before he'll block you." Every other attack Ganon does besides the one which triggers Chance is a great attack. Like his one where he jumps in the air and forces you to run away. Or like the one where he sweeps towards you, makes a huge heavy slash that stuns you, and makes a second heavy slash where he robs you of 1 or 1½ hearts. (And when you get up from this attack, he launches it again with little time for you to react, so you have to know it's coming from trial and error and run away the MOMENT you get Link to stand up again!)

But what's really bad about this fight is that you have no way of hurting Ganon other than through Chance. At least, none as far as I found or saw. He dodges arrows and hookshots, he evades bombs, other items have no effect on him. I read that the fishing pole dazes him, but that'd require some serious skill on my part with the fishing pole (since you have to get the lure in juuuuust the right spot in front of his eyes, I heard). So that leaves us with only one option: the Master Sword. And the problem is, any attack Link initiates is successfully blocked by Ganondorf. Jump attacks, draw attacks, regular attacks, you name it, he blocks it. So you're basically forced to wait for Chance, which is nothing more than a QTE like in Shenmue ...

... except it only works about one in every four attempts. Which is where we get our other 3/16 of failure from. This is why I said you only have a 1/16 chance of hitting Ganon. Because 3/4 of the time, he doesn't trigger Chance at all. And then of the times that he does trigger chance, 3/4 of them Link jumps the wrong way, Ganondorf blocks, something, but it's anything besides the swordlock. Now this could just be me doing it wrong, but after several different theories on what could have been causing our woes (like me holding down the A button too long, or me holding the nunchuk analog stick to a side while hitting A) and us trying to respond to these theories with counteractions and still seeing the same disappointing results, I've come to the conclusion that it's just part of the fight. It may well be why the event is called "Chance" and not "A Certainty." Because it's only a chance.

But this is terrible. This is the worst possible boss fight you could end your game on. It's even worse than FF7's final form of Sephiroth: because at least that was stress-free. The fourth fight with Ganondorf can still easily kill you. You've got to constantly keep moving around the fighting ring, staying out of reach of his sword, etc. You have to actively participate in the fight. And that's why it sucks: because it requires your active participation but at the same time it isn't really a "fight" at all. It's just you mashing A when the screen tells you to once every two minutes, and then mashing A a bunch more when it works once every eight minutes.


Final Thoughts On These Fights:
I don't think they stack up to Ocarina of Time or Wind Waker execution-wise. Wind Waker was especially fun, cutting Puppet Ganon's strings and then fighting the real Ganon on top of the tower. The scene where you drive the sword home is one of the most emotional scenes in gaming I've ever seen, especially given what a tragic anti-villain Ganon is presented as being in Wind Waker. But as far as theme and good intentions go, I think it's hard to top Twilight Princess. These four fights embody what every Zelda fanboy probably would list as being a possible candidate for "best Zelda final boss fight situation." You've got (1) Princess Zelda herself, (2) Ganon the boar, (3) Ganon on horseback, and (4) a one-on-one swordfight with Ganon in a closed ring. It's like Nintendo read the fanboys' letters and said, "Let's code them all " in response to the very best letters. I definitely think every Zelda fan owes it to himself or herself to beat this game or else to watch somebody else beat it on Youtube. But whether these fights will be memorable down the road ... probably only the last two will be memorable. And sadly, they were the worst two fights (execution-wise) of the bunch. Oh well.

[lilboocorsola]

Oh God I hated the hot water barrel mission. I spent hours trying to figure out how to get the thing safely across. I eventually got so stressed out I had to give up and go fishing to relax. Then I went back and finally figured out if you just stay along the edge of the canyon no monsters will attack you. >>; WTF.

...Funnily enough this was on my second playthrough. No idea how I got past it the first time. =x

I agree the giant skeleton boss fight was great. Tied with Goht from MM for "most fun Zelda boss fight," IMO. And that Spinner! Such a cool item - my favorite after the hook/claw/whatevershot. Too bad it was hardly useful outside the Arbiter's Grounds.

No comments on the timeline. The only belief about the Zelda universe I bother to adhere to is that the events of Majora's Mask were a dream. I could care less whether the plots are consistent or not, so long as each is enjoyable in its own right. The Legend of Zelda is effectively a title that can get away with changing its story over time, and I admire that.

I do think princess Zelda was pretty dumb in OoT for various reasons (not to mention disappointingly unattractive >>). Aside from my personal grudge against her, I challenge LinkxZelda shippers to consider that even if circumstances kept future Links from inheriting a royal position, their descendants would still be closely related. While I'm not opposed to incest, I just don't see the logic in this matchup if all the main characters indeed share a common ancestry with their look-alikes.

*ahem* I know your comment was in jest, Talon, but just thought I'd put that out there. In short, LinkxMalon ftw. <3 There, I'm done.

As for the final boss fight, facing Zelda was a unique twist, but I admit the baseball tactic has grown stale - and my experience with it is nearly the same as yours aside from an early preview in Link's Awakening, if that counts. It would've been nice if they'd maybe thrown in some character development for Zelda, which she sorely lacked in this game compared to Midna. Like she could overcome Ganon's control in a moment of clarity and use her magic to hold him down like at the end of OoT, telling Link to ignore her safety to deliver the final blow. Something heartrending, if cliché. Would've been better than the complete lack of emotion displayed on both sides, which basically rendered the twist pointless and ineffective.

Pig King is pretty much as you said. Don't feel there's anything I need to add.

Horseback Ganon was ridiculous. I think I ran through my reserve potions and had to resort to the Golden Chu Jelly I was saving for posterity just in order to survive. Damnit Zelda, you're hot in TP but still just as worthless as your OoT version. Just shoot the freaking arrow. Oh, and please, please don't miss.

I recall the final one-on-one fight being fairly easy. I think my strategy was the same as the one I used against unarmored Darknuts. Stun him with a Back Slice, then wail on him from behind. Lather, rinse, repeat. Quick and painless, if a bit boring.

[Loki]

From looking at the videos on Youtube, the Fishing Pole trick looks rather easy.

I believe there was another way to hit Ganondorf besides the chance attack. The rolling sidestep slice move I think worked, even if it was difficult. I'm also not sure how you miss the chance sword clashes. I suppose the Wii version might have had it harder, but the GC one was super easy. I don't think I missed any of the chance clashes.

EDIT: Yeah I didn't read Yuki's post.