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Old 08-08-2014, 01:30 PM   #1
Pearl's Perap
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Articuno Sky Battle Discussion

Not sure if I should have made a thread for this or not but I've begun to draft ideas for a potential Sky Battle tournament and think it would be neater to keep the discussion all in one place. Here's some of what I have so far:

General points

- 16 participants (is this wishful thinking? It can easily be scaled down)
- Reffing (does FB have enough refs or people interested at reffing at present? Not sure about the sitch)
- Time scale - With the correct attention, I don't think a fortnight would be too much of a long shot

Levitation - Obviously Pokémon with Levitate would be eligible for use in such a tournament. However, should this just be open to Pokémon with the declared ability Levitate or to Pokémon who levitate naturally? (i.e the majority of the Ghost type and beyond) Granted, there will be some who are more capable of taking to the skies with their levitation than others.

Do we stick to the in-game ability route and keep it simple or should it be looked at on a case-by-case basis?


Flight - These aren't exhaustive lists, just the ones i've taken from my PokéRinger posts and added to who have the ability of true flight, whether they can learn that pesky HM or not:

~ All Flying type Pokémon allowed except for Doduo, Dodrio, Natu, Vullaby, Archen

~ Eligible non-flying types ~ Beedrill, Venomoth, Dragonair, Scizor, Heracross, Dustox, Volbeat, Illumise, Vibrava, Flygon, Garchomp, Spritzee

Like I said, not exhaustive, I'm putting this to the floor to get as much feedback as possible before I go ahead and propose anything to anyone ^^;
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Old 08-08-2014, 01:39 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Pearl's Perap View Post
Levitation - Obviously Pokémon with Levitate would be eligible for use in such a tournament. However, should this just be open to Pokémon with the declared ability Levitate or to Pokémon who levitate naturally? (i.e the majority of the Ghost type and beyond) Granted, there will be some who are more capable of taking to the skies with their levitation than others.

Do we stick to the in-game ability route and keep it simple or should it be looked at on a case-by-case basis?
Personally, I think that if it can hover in midair, regardless of whether it actually has Levitate or not, it should be allowed in. You're already suggesting that the likes of Dustox, Beedrill, and Venomoth be allowed in, this just seems like it'd be sticking to the same basic principle.
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Old 08-08-2014, 01:43 PM   #3
Pearl's Perap
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Personally, I think that if it can hover in midair, regardless of whether it actually has Levitate or not, it should be allowed in. You're already suggesting that the likes of Dustox, Beedrill, and Venomoth be allowed in, this just seems like it'd be sticking to the same basic principle.
They were three originally included in the PokéRinger based on their flying ability but I get what you're saying. I agree regarding natural levitation and it doesn't make the process any harder by including Pokémon who can levitate, but the big question is whether they would all be able to hold their own in a battle in the sky?

EDIT: Ignore that point entirely, if Tynamo can battle in the sky, I'm pretty sure anything could ^^;
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Old 08-08-2014, 01:59 PM   #4
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I'm not to convinced on the levitation aspect. The Magnemite line for example hovers low above the floor but I don't think it could properly participate in a Sky Battle. Perhaps a case by case basis for these Mon? Or could just be me though.
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Old 08-08-2014, 02:14 PM   #5
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I think height off of the ground matters, as does the dynamics of motion. For example:

Height: how high up do you imagine a Fletchinder can fly? Now how high up do you imagine a Weezing or a Bronzong can float? I imagine a Fletchinder being able to fly hundreds of feet up in the sky whereas a Weezing or a Bronzong can only hover six to eight feet above the ground.

Perhaps you want to apply evidence from the anime with its cartoon physics. For example, the fact that Weezing floats four feet above the Rockets' hot air balloon basket implies that he is capable of floating hundreds of feet above ground, right? But then how will you answer all of the other crazy aerial feats depicted in the anime? For example, Forretress can spin himself up hundreds of feet into the sky in a matter of seconds. Should he be allowed in a Sky Battle? What about Dunsparce? The anime's confirmed that he's capable of flying a solid hundred feet up into the sky no problem. So will you allow Dunsparce then too? If not, what rationalization will you provide for allowing low-ground levitators like Weezing or Bronzong while disallowing fliers?

Dynamics: how do you envision these sky battles? Will it be as fluid and fast as games of quidditch in the Harry Potter universe? Or is it just going to be two Pokémon staying put a hundred feet above the ground while they fire attacks at one another? Because while there are a number of Pokémon who are technically capable of remaining airborne, not all of them are necessarily capable of gliding flight. For example, you listed that every single Flying type except the ones you specified is eligible to enter. Does that mean that you don't mind Hoppip entering even though it lacks control over which way the wind blows it?

Another thing I think you'll have to consider is whether you want to allow legendaries or not.

Legendaries: while there aren't too many that are owned in FB, most of the ones owned by active members are depicted as capable of levitation or flight. For instance, Mew floats all about telekinetically; the Sinnoh Lake Trio do something similar, most likely (and unlike Mew they actually possess Levitate as an in-game ability); and even Jirachi is shown to move about by floating across short distances or hovering in midair. (Once again, telekinesis? ) Will you allow no legends? Only those legends who officially have Levitate or the Flying type? All legends which have presentable evidence showing that they float?

And I guess this finally bleeds into a fourth consideration: telekinesis.

Telekinesis: Will you allow Psychic types who clearly float above the ground but lack the Flying type or the Levitate ability? Example: Reuniclus. If you allow them, will you also allow other Psychic types who are said to possess immense telekinetic strength but who aren't typically associated with levitation? Example: Alakazam.
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Old 08-08-2014, 03:03 PM   #6
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Okay, here goes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Admiral Insane View Post
I'm not to convinced on the levitation aspect. The Magnemite line for example hovers low above the floor but I don't think it could properly participate in a Sky Battle. Perhaps a case by case basis for these Mon? Or could just be me though.
I could picture a Magnezone, but I agree: I can't quite picture Magnemite or Magneton taking part in a Sky Battle. I see them as floating due to magnetic fields, as oppose to just... floating. I dunno, thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Perhaps you want to apply evidence from the anime with its cartoon physics. For example, the fact that Weezing floats four feet above the Rockets' hot air balloon basket implies that he is capable of floating hundreds of feet above ground, right? But then how will you answer all of the other crazy aerial feats depicted in the anime? For example, Forretress can spin himself up hundreds of feet into the sky in a matter of seconds. Should he be allowed in a Sky Battle? What about Dunsparce? The anime's confirmed that he's capable of flying a solid hundred feet up into the sky no problem. So will you allow Dunsparce then too? If not, what rationalization will you provide for allowing low-ground levitators like Weezing or Bronzong while disallowing fliers?
The image of Weezing floating alongside the Meowth balloon is what first got me wondering when it came to the idea of levitating Pokémon being included. This is why I think it needs to be stringently looked at and a list compiled of all the Pokémon who would be able to hold their own. This was the main reason which I posted what I had collated so far, I know I wouldn't be able to create an entire list myself and everyone be in agreement on it ^^;

Completely forgot all about Dunsparce, though, I would definitely consider it to have the ability of flight.

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Dynamics: how do you envision these sky battles? Will it be as fluid and fast as games of quidditch in the Harry Potter universe? Or is it just going to be two Pokémon staying put a hundred feet above the ground while they fire attacks at one another? Because while there are a number of Pokémon who are technically capable of remaining airborne, not all of them are necessarily capable of gliding flight. For example, you listed that every single Flying type except the ones you specified is eligible to enter. Does that mean that you don't mind Hoppip entering even though it lacks control over which way the wind blows it?
I envision the combatants having a set amount of sky to utilise as they would see fit for the battle. This could be remaining static or making the most of the expanse around them. Obviously this could leave the adept fliers at an advantage from the beginning, which isn't ideal. It would probably be wise to ensure that there was less emphasis on the environmental factors (i.e the wind affecting the 'flying' ability of Hoppip drastically)

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Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Legendaries: while there aren't too many that are owned in FB, most of the ones owned by active members are depicted as capable of levitation or flight. For instance, Mew floats all about telekinetically; the Sinnoh Lake Trio do something similar, most likely (and unlike Mew they actually possess Levitate as an in-game ability); and even Jirachi is shown to move about by floating across short distances or hovering in midair. (Once again, telekinesis? ) Will you allow no legends? Only those legends who officially have Levitate or the Flying type? All legends which have presentable evidence showing that they float?
If it was up to me, legendaries would be banned from such a tournament. If they weren't, however, then there are plenty of them who are clearly capable of long term and heavy duty levitation. These would make up a good chunk of the case-by-case Pokémon, i'm sure! ^^

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Telekinesis: Will you allow Psychic types who clearly float above the ground but lack the Flying type or the Levitate ability? Example: Reuniclus. If you allow them, will you also allow other Psychic types who are said to possess immense telekinetic strength but who aren't typically associated with levitation? Example: Alakazam.
I thought about telekinesis as I was compiling my lists and completely agree regarding Reuniclus and other floaty Psychic types. Where would the line be drawn when it comes to 'grounded' Psychic types harnessing the telekinetic ability? I agree about Alakazam, but which others would be able to maintain the levitation AND participate in a battle too?

Thoughts? Let's keep the discussion flowing!
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Old 08-08-2014, 05:39 PM   #7
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Okay, here goes
I envision the combatants having a set amount of sky to utilise as they would see fit for the battle. This could be remaining static or making the most of the expanse around them. Obviously this could leave the adept fliers at an advantage from the beginning, which isn't ideal. It would probably be wise to ensure that there was less emphasis on the environmental factors (i.e the wind affecting the 'flying' ability of Hoppip drastically)

I think natural fliers should have an advantage. After all, this is their element. If a Hoppip gets caught in a Whirlwind it should be at a major disadvantage. If a Weezing is just floating in the air, it might have accuracy issues keeping up with a swift flyer such as a Swellow that can position itself at any angle faster than a Weezing could probably turn.

I have more thoughts, but I've got to go for a bit.
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Old 08-09-2014, 08:16 PM   #8
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I think natural fliers should have an advantage. After all, this is their element. If a Hoppip gets caught in a Whirlwind it should be at a major disadvantage. If a Weezing is just floating in the air, it might have accuracy issues keeping up with a swift flyer such as a Swellow that can position itself at any angle faster than a Weezing could probably turn.
It is definitely true that the fliers should be more suited to the environment, I just didn't want people to be discouraged from entering levitating 'mon, I suppose. That being said, with the right strategy in place, there's no saying that they couldn't hold their own quite easily. That or entirely remove their winged competition ^^

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I have more thoughts, but I've got to go for a bit.
Looking forward to hearing any and all of 'em!
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Old 08-20-2014, 08:30 PM   #9
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I've been wondering this for quite a while and though I don't have a Pokemon at the moment that can fly; how are levels calculated in? Or how were they? With the idea of Sky Battles it wouldn't make much sense if a Lv.25 Pidgey were to beat a Lv.75 Salamence but looking at the Pokering competition, a Pokemon can find more creative ways to win?
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Old 08-22-2014, 01:01 PM   #10
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I've been wondering this for quite a while and though I don't have a Pokemon at the moment that can fly; how are levels calculated in? Or how were they? With the idea of Sky Battles it wouldn't make much sense if a Lv.25 Pidgey were to beat a Lv.75 Salamence but looking at the Pokering competition, a Pokemon can find more creative ways to win?
With the PokéRinger, you weren't explicitly required to battle so strategies could have been evoked with even the tiniest, weakest of Pokémon to grab the ring and win.

As for with this 'tournament', I'd be tempted to scrap Pokémon's levels during the actual battles. When I say this, I only mean remove it as a measurement of their power, I believe any moves learned should be retained without a doubt.

Would people would prefer that all Pokémon are scaled to a certain level, gaining moves if they're lower levelled or merely scrap the idea of levels all together (outside of the learnset and prizes, obviously) and have everyone on a more levelled playing field?
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Old 12-23-2014, 10:38 AM   #11
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Would people would prefer that all Pokémon are scaled to a certain level, gaining moves if they're lower levelled or merely scrap the idea of levels all together (outside of the learnset and prizes, obviously) and have everyone on a more levelled playing field?
(bumping this because, quite frankly, I'd like to see this happen)

Hmm... I'm leaning more towards the idea of ignoring levels altogether, personally (with the obvious exception of attacks and prizes).

Also, question- what would be the stance on a participating Pokémon evolving mid-battle? I only ask because I like the idea of evolving my Tranquill in this.
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Old 02-04-2015, 11:27 AM   #12
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Also, question- what would be the stance on a participating Pokémon evolving mid-battle? I only ask because I like the idea of evolving my Tranquill in this.
'No' is the general answer I feel we will get from your question. Assuming of course the tournament will be treated in a special Trainer Battle fashion. Just my personal opinion however, I can see evolution being allowed at the end of whatever match you may have participated in and should be allowed to use the same Pokemon.
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