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Old 06-04-2009, 12:07 AM   #1
Patches
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over 100 hours wasted

Ok so Zelda:TP is one of 2 Zelda games now that I got to start and never finish. The first being my own stupidity and this one being taken. I got the game for Christmas '07 (Wii version), I got to the 3rd dungeon and got stuck there (I'm one of those people who refuses to use a guide) for 70+ in game hours. Now of course my frustration made this 70+ hour time frame spread over the course of about 10 months (beat it last late September). From there I was so relieved to be done with that I put the game down for a little bit before continuing. I got to the 4th dungeon earlier this year, beat half of it (did not get stuck) put it down and got side tracked with other games and told myself I would come back to it.

Since I've moved in with Deoxys' family I have been sharing my Wii with his little brother who is 10 because Deo's Wii broke right before I got there. I've noticed a lot of bad things like leaving my discs out to get scratched, losing the wii remotes, and kicking the Wii over on a daily basis, but I never thought he would touch my files because I was told that he knew better. So I decide its about time to get back to Twilight Princess. Turns out the kid decided to take over my file and has beaten the 7th dungeon.

I don't think I have ever been so upset with anything video game related in my life. I thought the time I decided to learn what format memory meant was the worst video game nightmare of my past. But oddly this is worse. Basically... Any ideas for revenge?

Edit: Sweet! I posted at 1:07 AM (my time)

Last edited by Patches; 06-04-2009 at 12:11 AM.
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Old 06-04-2009, 12:20 AM   #2
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Resident console virgin here.

I've never played Zelda for real, but did play The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages and Seasons and loved both. I needed a guide for some of Ages, but needed help only with that forest trap in Seasons. And, I needed help to summon Ganon.

However, I've been told TP is ridiculously easy by Zelda standards.

Take that as you will. :o
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Old 06-04-2009, 12:24 AM   #3
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Well the thing I got stuck on was a door way I kept missing. Believe me I felt like an idiot. But it was the only time that game stumped me. I probably won't play it again though for a long long long time.
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Old 06-04-2009, 12:25 AM   #4
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Firstly, restart the game and complete it. It might be a mediocre entry in the series overall, but the period from entering the Desert Dungeon to finishing the Ice Dungeon is some of the most enjoyable content in any Zelda, and you shouldn't deny yourself that experience.

Then move all the Wii's save data onto an SD card and hold it hostage until whatever elaborate demands you might have are met.
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Old 06-04-2009, 06:05 AM   #5
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There's a far easier solution, and that is to politely point out the kid's error and ask him to re-beat the game all the way through to the front door of the 4th dungeon. Have him save his progress there and you can pick up from there. If he complains, tell him some half-assed explanation like "you can't really claim to have completed this game unless you've played every minute, at some part in your life, from start to finish. And so far, you still haven't played the first three dungeons of the game. " Or tell him what ZoraJolteon just told you about the opening to the game being more fun than many later things.

But more important than this, I think you should reassess your priorities. Is a save file for a game you dislike more important to you than your serious-boyfriend's little brother's feelings? And why do you play Zelda in the first place? If it's for the story, find a good Youtube video series which shows somebody beating the game (and omitting none of the movie sequences) and there you go, problem solved. If it's for the challenge, then guess what: whether he deleted the file or not, you'll never get the same challenge back for those first three dungeons once you've figured 'em out. And if it's for the fun of simply executing the combat and equestrian commands in such a colorful environment, then there should be no complaints on your part whether it's the first or the fiftieth time you're playing through the game.

More if you'd like ...
Spoiler: show
I'd sympathize more, I guess, if it was Pokémon. Because there you might say, "I don't like hacking and it's just not the same if Deoxys's brother replays the game because the monsters won't really be mine, they'll be his, and I'll never be able to see them in any other way. My babies are gone forever. " But with Zelda, which has a fixed plot, fixed "level-up" system via item acquisition and miscellaneous upgrades to the character (like health or clothing), there really shouldn't be any of that sort of bummed-out psychological fixation. You shouldn't see a standing-on-the-doorstep-of-Dungeon-4 Link any differently whether he's yours, Deoxys's brother's, or mine. Assuming they have the same item upgrades and everything, there is literally no difference between "his Link" and "your old Link." So I don't see why this problem should be nearly so traumatic as having a self-acquired and self-trained RPG team erased.

To put it to you another way, if he erased your Final Fantasy VI game, I would say it's like Zelda. FF6 is a pretty linear RPG as far as character customization goes. Everybody gets the same 12 characters. Every one of these characters learns the same moves at the same levels whether he's on my pak or yours. But instead of FF6, let's consider if he erased Pokémon Pinball. To me, that'd be much more emotionally draining. The game may superficially be much simpler than FF6, but the truth of the matter is that a pinball game's save file is all about its Hi Scores list, and the chances of the little brother reacquiring your precise hi scores down to the final digit are astronomically slim.
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Old 06-04-2009, 08:42 AM   #6
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>[Is it] more important to you than your serious-boyfriends little brothers feelings?

Trust me. At this point, it's more like we've told him several times that he can't play files besides his own without asking (he did this to my original FireRed, for example, when specifically told not to). There's other things that make me upset, like the fact that he carelessly leaves games lying about and they usually get too scratched to work. Oh, and he loses games, too.

/rant
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Old 06-04-2009, 09:22 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deoxys View Post
>[Is it] more important to you than your serious-boyfriends little brothers feelings?

Trust me. At this point, it's more like we've told him several times that he can't play files besides his own without asking (he did this to my original FireRed, for example, when specifically told not to). There's other things that make me upset, like the fact that he carelessly leaves games lying about and they usually get too scratched to work. Oh, and he loses games, too.

/rant
Being the oldest of 7 I certainly understand this. Kids are killers on the video games. I have altogether stopped playing my Wii , (That I bought), because I can't stand looking at the horrible condition it is in. I hide all my crap now ><.
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Old 06-04-2009, 11:18 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deoxys View Post
>[Is it] more important to you than your serious-boyfriends little brothers feelings?

Trust me. At this point, it's more like we've told him several times that he can't play files besides his own without asking (he did this to my original FireRed, for example, when specifically told not to). There's other things that make me upset, like the fact that he carelessly leaves games lying about and they usually get too scratched to work. Oh, and he loses games, too.

/rant
From one older brother to another, take it from me: you'll look back on it and regret it. "It" being the sum of all the negative emotions and actions which came out of you discovering that your little brother had once again ruined something precious of yours. You'll look back on it and be ashamed of yourself when you wake up one day and realize that if an angel sent from Heaven came to you with a solemn edict, you would gladly heed his words and grind the baseball bat your grandpa gave you for your 12th birthday into sawdust ... you would gladly place all of your Star Wars DVDs into a microwave and watch them explode in a flash of light ... you would gladly take one kick to the nuts ... gladly take one snot-sneeze to the face ... gladly take just about anything you can ever think of which your little brother did to you to piss you off if it meant having him back.

Because one day, hopefully soon, you'll realize that your little brother means more to you than almost anything or anybody else in the entire world, and you would gladly never come back to this webforum, never play Pokemon again, and never do many of the things you enjoy doing if you learned that by doing so you could cure your brother of his brain cancer and provide him with a happy, healthy life for the next 60+ years instead of having him die right in front of you two years from now.

Morbid, maybe, but something to think about. There's Twilight Princess ... and then there's your brother. Yeah, it sucks that he won't listen to reason. Yeah, what I'm saying doesn't mean he should be allowed to get away with murder. Sure, he needs to be punished. Sure, he needs to realize how he's wronged Patches107. He needs to learn to respect the feelings of others including the concept of private property. But deleting his favorite game's save file isn't the way to go about it, nor is spiking his ginger ale with whiskey or uploading pictures of him in his diapers to his school's website. Brother ....... Zelda save file. Brother ........... Zelda save file.

I won't say that there aren't people in this world who don't get to love a video game save file more than their miscreant brothers. If your brother killed your parents, raped 3 women, and told you he'd kill you given the chance, I wouldn't hold it against you if you chose a video game save file over your brother's life. "No, Governor Smith, go ahead with the execution. I can see no reason to spare my brother's life. After all, he deleted my Pokemon Snap save files." I could see it. But this isn't your guys' situation, I take it? And so for that reason, I think you should give the little brother yet another chance.

He'll love you for it. "I love my big brother. :3" That's part of what it means to grow up, Deoxys -- taking one up the butt to keep a smile on the face of someone you love.
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Old 06-04-2009, 09:47 PM   #9
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I completely agree. Though I have recently learned that in the end none of the fights truly matter. My 10 year old little brother and I fought practically every day from the first day I started living with him at age 13 to the day I moved out at 18. But that never stopped the message I got from him saying how he missed me and cried a lot about it. That meant a lot. And I don't regret anything of the past because that's just how our relationship worked and that's how we liked it.
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Old 06-05-2009, 11:17 AM   #10
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There's one way to test if Deoxys's little brother is doing this because he's forgetful, because he's seeking attention, or neither. It might not be your ideal fix, but please give it a try.

For games he should never touch, period:
Spoiler: show
Go buy some bright red electrical tape. Cut off a 2-inch piece of tape and horizontally tape it across the vertical opening of the DVD box, like so. (See attached picture. I used cellar tape, but you should use bright red electrical tape instead!) Affix the tape only to those game boxes which you expressly forbid Deoxys' brother from playing without first consulting you. Nothing says "NO!" like red barriers to entry, but if you overuse the tape then he will be more inclined to disregard it. You should therefore use it sparingly.

For games he's allowed to play but not allowed to edit or delete certain save files of:
Spoiler: show
Affix a piece of non-red tape internally (see second picture attachment) with a brief note (8 words or fewer!) telling him to not touch your save files. And/Or you can specifically tell him which save slot he's allowed to use. For example, if it were Metroid Prime 3 for the Wii, you could tell him, "Adam's save slot is File #3." That way he knows that you're using #1 and #2 but he's free to touch #3. I made up the name "Adam," but whatever his name is, put it there. That way there's no confusion. If instead you were to instructively write the words "your save," he could say that he thought "your" was referring to you, Patches107, and that you were talking to yourself in 2nd person.

For all other games:
Spoiler: show
Do nothing. Don't go overboard with ideas like "hey, yeah, I'll put green tape on the ones he's allowed to play! and I'll put purple tape on the ones he can play and delete save files on! and I'll put orange tape on the ones he can put in the dishwasher!" No, no. ^^; Bad idea! The more complicated you make the system, the more likely he is to disregard it. Keep it simple! Red tape means "never without asking me," non-red means "you can go ahead without asking but never erase my save file," and no tape period is for every other situation.

What you then do next:
Spoiler: show
Take photographs of each of the game boxes once the tape is in place. Don't tell Deoxys's little brother that you did this, though!

Here come the two most troublesome parts of the plan. But if this is worth it to you, then please, heed my advice! ^^;

First, you're going to want to take off the red tape and the non-red tape (AFTER having taken the photographs!!) from 33% to 50% of the games they're on. I know it'll pain you to do this, but we have to (for reasons that'll become clear in a sec if not already). In order to try to alleviate your pain ...

Second, you'll want to purchase an extra memory card (for GC, XBox, or PS2) or a MicroSD flash cart (for Wii and other compatible devices) and back up all of your save files to them. Doing this alone is a perfectly appropriate remedy to the problem, but it won't solve the mystery! So if you want to solve the mystery, you have to do all the tape stuff I mentioned. If you don't care about the mystery, then just buy the card and save yourself a lot of trouble. You'll want to buy it anyway because, like I told you, you're not allowed to keep the red tape on 33% to 50% of the games that you really really want to keep it on.

Wait-and-See:
Spoiler: show
Observe which save files Deoxys' little brother ruins.
  • If he's disproportionately ruining save files on games with tape on them, it might mean he's doing it deliberately. In other words, he's seeking attention.
  • If he's disproportionately doing it to only those games that have non-red tape on them (but still have the internal taped-on note!), then that specifically could indicate that he's just a curious cat. For example, maybe he couldn't beat a certain level, so he loaded up your save file instead to see how it's done, and not knowing what he was doing he accidentally spent all of your cash, TMs, etc and then saved. Whoops. It doesn't mean he did it deliberately to hurt you, though, because if that was the case then you'd think he'd have gone after the red-labeled discs.
  • If he's proportionately ruining save files across the board -- in other words, yes, he is erasing some of your red-label and non-red tape-labeled game saves but he's ruining the non-taped-period game saves just as commonly -- then that probably means that he's either (a) really very forgetful or (b) someone with a brazen disregard for proprietorship. It might seem like he's doing it for attention alone, but if that were the case then you'd expect him to ruin taped-up games more commonly than the non-taped-up ones.
  • If he's disproportionately ruining save files on non-taped-up games, eureka: problem solved. He's a nice kid, he understands basic instructions, he respects your private property, etc.

Why did we need to take tape off of half of the taped-up games?
Spoiler: show
We had to take off the tape to fill in a potential hole in our experiment.
1. Your favorite games are probably not unpopular ones.
2. Your favorite games are probably sometimes, if not always, very popular ones.
3. You probably don't care if he ruins your other games.
4. You only care if he ruins your favorites.

If we had kept the red tape and the non-red tape on all the games you cared to, then we might have created a false positive if we observed Deoxys's little brother ruining a disproportionately high amount of taped-up games to non-taped-up games. In other words, it might seem like he's doing it deliberately, but the truth of the matter is that if you tape up Mario Kart, Metroid, Zelda, and Mario Galaxy and you don't tape up Littlest Pet Shop, Mighty Max, and Big Bad Beetleborgs, he's going to ruin only the taped-up games simply because he doesn't even care to play the non-taped-up ones. That's why we had to take off tape! So we could see that if he ruins all the popular games (regardless of tape) then we know he's just eager to play the fun ones, but if he leaves fun untaped games alone and specifically ruins just the fun as well as taped-up games, it suggests that he's doing it on purpose.

Why did we need to take pictures?
Spoiler: show
Because it helps you prove to Little Bro that you're not bluffing when you call him out on playing just the taped-up games. Let's say you tell him that Mario Galaxy is one of your favorites, it takes hundreds of hours of gameplay to get all the stars and purple coins, and you would have been devastated if he'd ruined your save file. Let's say he then challenges you, "Oh yeah? Well I don't believe you! Because if that were true, you would have put tape on that game also!" That's when you bust out the photograph and say, "I did put tape on it. But then I took it off to test you. "

Please let me know if you read all this. Let me know if you decide to test it out. And let us all know if it works! Good luck!
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Old 06-05-2009, 11:26 AM   #11
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By the way, for those of you for whom that was way too long to read, I did tell Patches a much simpler solution, albeit one which won't help her solve the mystery behind her boyfriend's little brother's behavior.

I told her to get an extra memory card (whichever one's most appropriate for that particular console, naturally) and to copy her save files to that card to serve as a back-up.

Honestly, that should solve the problem immediately. Deny him access to your memory card and he's forced to play the games with whatever save files are stored on either the console's memory cards or the console's hard drive. But since it won't help solve the mystery, and since I think solving the mystery is way more important in the grand scheme of things, I took time out of my day to write up that huge experiment.
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Old 06-06-2009, 12:52 AM   #12
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Vran: I'm sorry, you're right. I suppose it's just that sometimes each of us takes this sibling rivalry thing way too much for granted. You really do make a good point, as no one wants to have something horrific happen and look back on our lives and remember nothing but the crappy times and the bad things. Thanks for the kick in the ass I needed to remember that.

And to your experiment post: I did read it all, and it's actually a very nice idea. I'll talk to Patches and see what goes on regarding that, but I do like your idea, thanks for taking your time to type that all out. My theory is that, based on what I've seen, it's somewhat of a mixture of a. I'm going to play what I want, because I can, b. I forgot, and besides I like this game, and c. Well, since you said I could play your file on this game, I'm going to assume I can also play your file on that game.

But again, I'm not sure, that's just what it seems like to me. I am interested in seeing if I'm right or not, though. Now she did recently have a talk with him and he agreed to start another file and get it back to where she was in the game before he took over, so progress is being made slowly but surely, heh.

Again, thanks for everything!
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Old 06-06-2009, 01:51 AM   #13
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Or you could invest a bit of $ in a video game case with a lock, and let him play your games when you say it's ok.

You know.

Just saying.
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Old 06-06-2009, 08:07 AM   #14
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I'm not so sure that's such a great idea, Muyotwo. If the kid's acting the way he is precisely because he wants attention, putting a lock on it is only going to invite him to defeat the lock. Also, locks have strong psychological connotations with security, and so putting a lock on it could subconsciously hurt his feelings. "What am I? A criminal?" Putting tape on it is a much more diplomatic measure. It's more like marking one's own territory than it is locking another out of one's territory.
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Old 06-06-2009, 04:01 PM   #15
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Meh, it's more difficult than that. When it comes to deoxys games his mom will throw the biggest fit if he won't share. When it comes to mine, since I live in their house one of the deals is that I share my video games including systems. Since I am living here for free I can't argue that. I think what it comes down to is that deoxys and I need to talk to his mother about his little brother getting his own systems and we need to come up with a good argument that would make her agree.
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Old 06-06-2009, 04:44 PM   #16
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I remember when PCs were transitioning from floppy disks to CD-ROM and I was always super paranoid when handling the discs because of how fragile they were in comparison. I think it would be wise to help him develop some proper handing habits for those discs. And yeah, buying yourself a separate memory card seems like a quick and easy precaution.

What concerns me the most, though, is that you can get into some legal trouble for living in someone else's house rent-free. I don't know what the laws are like in your state, but it wouldn't hurt to check.
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Old 06-07-2009, 12:18 AM   #17
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That's only if the person I live with has a problem with it right? I know I don't have that to worry about. I don't live here only due to decision, I live here because his family decided to help me get out of a bad situation. They even told deoxys that he needed to leave and go live with his Dad because they were going to have me living here. I know for a fact there isn't a problem with it, they like having me around too much. xP
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