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Old 10-05-2012, 12:41 AM   #1
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Multiplayer Metagaming

I notice that almost all MMORPGs are pretty weak on the "role playing" aspect and most players regress toward a meta-game attitude. Specifically, they're aware of the game rules and try to optimize their builds within those restrictions, use gaming lingo that wouldn't fit in most RPG settings and in general treat the MMO like a message board/chat room with graphics, rather than an RPG.

I'm curious if there's any MMORPG out there like a Renaissance Fair, where players are obligated to remain in character. Or if there would be any interest in that kind of game - it seems to work for text-based and browser based RPGs, but none of them have the scale or appeal of a true MMO.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:07 AM   #2
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Well, I know from my friend that WoW has roleplay-only servers, but I've also heard that they are sometimes subject to people who really have no idea how to roleplay.

Personally, I think a game where all builds are balanced due to individual benefits would be a good atmosphere to nurture a roleplaying atmosphere. Of course, I can't claim ignorance to the fact that balance doesn't always provide, well, balance. In metagames, crippling overspecialization... often has a tendancy to not actually be crippling. However, the very nature of MMOs mean that you can create a constantly evolving experience- perhaps the way to create a metagame 'balanced' enough is to constantly...

I'm rambling.
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 10-05-2012, 03:24 PM   #3
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You could try MUDs (Multi-User-Dungeons). They're text based, mostly, not graphical, so I don't know if that'd be your cup of tea, so to speak, but there are roleplay-enforcing ones out there.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:11 PM   #4
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I think one of the problems is the definition of RPG has changed over the years. Where in the 90s RPGs were games like Fallout and Baldur's Gate and you had to make choices and decisions in character that may change how the game ends or how NPCs perceive you. Now though, almost any game with Experience Points, Character Skills, and and a Plot is considered an RPG.

People had arguments over whether Zelda was an RPG. Of coarse it isn't (by any definition). While it has a plot of some sort, it doesn't have any more role playing than Pac Man does. It's purely puzzle and action.

Personally, I define a RPG as a game with branching storyline based upon actions you make. Because of this, I still consider the Mass Effect series and Skyrim to be modern RPGs. You can choose to sacrifice the Council or save it. You can choose to let the bomb explode or disarm it. You can choose to join the Rebellion or the Imperial Army. You can choose to join the Dawnguard or Vampires. Even choices of omission are choices. You can choose to join the Companions or never associate with them at all.

Meanwhile, I consider games like Borderlands 2 and Final Fantasy (choose any number) to just be action games. Sure you have skills and experience points and a character running around the world, but there are no choices to really be made. The plot never changes.

So where I think a RPG is like a road trip where you and your friends choose where to stop along and what sites to check out, most new RPGs are more like a tour bus showing you the sites on their route. You didn't pick the route, but you traveled it.

So with that, the game becomes something completely different. Role playing, despite being in the name of the genre is not necessarily part of the game. This leads to things like metagaming, min/maxing, and stuff like that.
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Old 10-06-2012, 04:25 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor Jesus View Post
I think one of the problems is the definition of RPG has changed over the years. Where in the 90s RPGs were games like Fallout and Baldur's Gate and you had to make choices and decisions in character that may change how the game ends or how NPCs perceive you. Now though, almost any game with Experience Points, Character Skills, and and a Plot is considered an RPG.

People had arguments over whether Zelda was an RPG. Of coarse it isn't (by any definition). While it has a plot of some sort, it doesn't have any more role playing than Pac Man does. It's purely puzzle and action.

Personally, I define a RPG as a game with branching storyline based upon actions you make. Because of this, I still consider the Mass Effect series and Skyrim to be modern RPGs. You can choose to sacrifice the Council or save it. You can choose to let the bomb explode or disarm it. You can choose to join the Rebellion or the Imperial Army. You can choose to join the Dawnguard or Vampires. Even choices of omission are choices. You can choose to join the Companions or never associate with them at all.

Meanwhile, I consider games like Borderlands 2 and Final Fantasy (choose any number) to just be action games. Sure you have skills and experience points and a character running around the world, but there are no choices to really be made. The plot never changes.

So where I think a RPG is like a road trip where you and your friends choose where to stop along and what sites to check out, most new RPGs are more like a tour bus showing you the sites on their route. You didn't pick the route, but you traveled it.

So with that, the game becomes something completely different. Role playing, despite being in the name of the genre is not necessarily part of the game. This leads to things like metagaming, min/maxing, and stuff like that.
You really should be called Odin, you know.
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Old 10-06-2012, 07:48 PM   #6
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http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/e...nner-metaphors

This metaphor also applies despite not being about FPS.
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:27 PM   #7
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But the thing is that RPG was originally used to refer to the games which were like a tour bus- Final Fantasy and it's ilk. It's true that 'Role Playing Game' would imply more the meaning you're saying, and I'll bet that the reason the name was given to those games is that it was simply grafted on to them from D&D and such, but the truth of the matter is that, for video games, RPG has ALWAYS meant games with EXP, leveling, and skills.
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:04 PM   #8
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I normally refer to table top games as Role Playing Games and video games as RPGs. Same thing but not if that makes sense.
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Old 06-12-2013, 10:28 PM   #9
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http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/e...nner-metaphors

This metaphor also applies despite not being about FPS.
Now you have me watching everything this woman has done and I love it all.

This one the most.
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Old 06-12-2013, 11:29 PM   #10
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But the thing is that RPG was originally used to refer to the games which were like a tour bus- Final Fantasy and it's ilk. It's true that 'Role Playing Game' would imply more the meaning you're saying, and I'll bet that the reason the name was given to those games is that it was simply grafted on to them from D&D and such, but the truth of the matter is that, for video games, RPG has ALWAYS meant games with EXP, leveling, and skills.
Since this thread got bumped anyway, I'll post to respond to this.

RPGs started as text-based games in the late 70s, which were basically digital versions of pen and paper games, particularly D&D. So no, RPG are not grafted onto D&D, D&D practically birthed RPGs.

These various text games would then create two big titles: Ultima and Wizardry. These two games would then inspire Japanese gaming to develop Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy. Since Japan was a console gaming nation, these games were developed for the NES. When the NES came to American shores, it was an instant hit. Compared to computers of the time, the NES was cheap and simple. Most forms of gaming would then be associated with the NES, thus most kids played Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest as their first RPGs.

So just because you started at FF or DQ, doesn't mean that was the first ever.
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Old 06-12-2013, 11:32 PM   #11
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The first RPGs were dreams. Duh.
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Old 06-12-2013, 11:58 PM   #12
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Since this thread got bumped anyway, I'll post to respond to this.

RPGs started as text-based games in the late 70s, which were basically digital versions of pen and paper games, particularly D&D. So no, RPG are not grafted onto D&D, D&D practically birthed RPGs.

These various text games would then create two big titles: Ultima and Wizardry. These two games would then inspire Japanese gaming to develop Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy. Since Japan was a console gaming nation, these games were developed for the NES. When the NES came to American shores, it was an instant hit. Compared to computers of the time, the NES was cheap and simple. Most forms of gaming would then be associated with the NES, thus most kids played Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest as their first RPGs.

So just because you started at FF or DQ, doesn't mean that was the first ever.
That's... What I said. Note that I said "grafted onto them from D&D and stuff", not "grafted from them onto D&D and stuff".
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 06-13-2013, 04:52 AM   #13
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That's... What I said. Note that I said "grafted onto them from D&D and stuff", not "grafted from them onto D&D and stuff".
No his point is that the original video game RPG's were nothing like the tour bus style, and that style - "Final Fantasy and its ilk", as you put it - came along a lot later than the first video games referred to as RPG's. Basically this;

Quote:
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But the thing is that RPG was originally used to refer to the games which were like a tour bus- Final Fantasy and it's ilk. It's true that 'Role Playing Game' would imply more the meaning you're saying, and I'll bet that the reason the name was given to those games is that it was simply grafted on to them from D&D and such, but the truth of the matter is that, for video games, RPG has ALWAYS meant games with EXP, leveling, and skills.
Is not true. The first mislabelled RPG's (FF and that lot) came along a good five or six years after the first true video game RPGs' (Ultima, Wizardry, etc). Proper video game RPG's came around in the late 70's early 80's. Tour bus style didn't appear until the late 80's.

Imho, FF and so on fall best into "strategy games".
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Last edited by Concept; 06-13-2013 at 05:40 AM.
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Old 06-13-2013, 01:45 PM   #14
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Note to self: Actually read your old, outdated posts. Past you is oftentimes an idiot.
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 06-13-2013, 03:03 PM   #15
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You should also double check your present self.
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Old 06-13-2013, 04:56 PM   #16
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Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past, wisdom is knowing you'll be one in the future, and common sense is trying not to be one now.
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