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Old 05-03-2009, 05:18 PM   #1
Vran
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Economy Doesn't Phaze Pokémon Fans

Apparently.

After all, who'd want to purchase a used copy of Pokémon Diamond for $15 and a brand-new copy of Pokémon Platinum for $35 when you could buy this Eon Ticket for $50 plus $5 S&H!?
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Old 05-03-2009, 05:42 PM   #2
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To be fair, another one of the big US tourneys is coming up, and winning becomes much more likely with a Soul Dew member. Is it worth the $ being forked over? Almost certainly not, but it is understandable if you look at it from that way. Yet another copy of Diamond isn't going to help you wall that annoying Groudon, is it?
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Old 05-03-2009, 05:57 PM   #3
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I'm pretty sure Soul Dew is banned, considering that even the Emerald/Diamond/Pearl/Platinum Battle Towers simply opt to ignore it if your Latios or Latias is holding onto it. I might be wrong. I doubt either of us cares to waste his time to look it up on Nintendo's site , so I'll take your word for it and say 'k. But even if you're right about Soul Dew being allowed, yeah, this is still dumb beyond dumb.

Think about it: Nintendo's regionals are only held in five cities. In each of the five, between 8:30am and 9:30am, they're planning to raffle off the 128 spots in the Senior Division (anyone born before 1997) to 128 lucky adults in the crowd on a random basis. Not first-come first-serve, not skill, just pure luck. So even if Soul Dew were allowed, then this guy paid $50 for a chance to boost one member of his POTENTIAL tournament team: because he's not even got a secured seat in the competition!
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Old 05-03-2009, 07:22 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muyotwo View Post
To be fair, another one of the big US tourneys is coming up, and winning becomes much more likely with a Soul Dew member. Is it worth the $ being forked over? Almost certainly not, but it is understandable if you look at it from that way. Yet another copy of Diamond isn't going to help you wall that annoying Groudon, is it?
Most of 670+ club is banned, and so is Soul Dew.

Plus, Smogon has a few Latis floating around that have essentially the best IVs/nature you can get from cheesing the Emerald RNG.
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Old 05-03-2009, 08:22 PM   #5
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Plus, Smogon has a few Latis floating around that have essentially the best IVs/nature you can get from cheesing the Emerald RNG.
Or are hacked.
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Old 05-03-2009, 08:32 PM   #6
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Officially, no. Unofficially, you bet your shiny Garchomp they're hacked.


Those SmogOn people make me laugh on their forum. Officially they're anti-hacking and every single request for trades or battles begins with "NO HACKS!!!!!!", but then you keep reading and every last one of them admits, "I do have an Action Replay, but I swear I only use it to check the IVs of my naturally-bred monsters!" Suuuuuuuuuuure you do. Because MetalKid's calculator just wasn't good enough for you so you haaaaaaaad to purchase a hacking device. And one of the shittier hacking devices, at that! lol
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Old 05-03-2009, 09:52 PM   #7
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Or are hacked.
Or are caught knowing that the Emerald RNG is always initialized to the same point. Apparently variable seeding is beyond the capabilities of Gamefreak. Shit, they've already figured out the Platinum RNG well enough to the point that you can breed a shiny Pokemon with 100% certainty.

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Those SmogOn people make me laugh on their forum. Officially they're anti-hacking and every single request for trades or battles begins with "NO HACKS!!!!!!", but then you keep reading and every last one of them admits, "I do have an Action Replay, but I swear I only use it to check the IVs of my naturally-bred monsters!" Suuuuuuuuuuure you do. Because MetalKid's calculator just wasn't good enough for you so you haaaaaaaad to purchase a hacking device. And one of the shittier hacking devices, at that! lol
I use an AR for fast egg hatching, cloning (faster/easier/less obnoxious than the "cheese GTS for cloned mans" method), IV checks (faster to press L+R+select than stuff rare candies down their throat and enter the values in Metalkid's calc), unlimited items and shit like that. There are a lot of ways to "hack" a Pokemon that don't affect its "legitimacy" (ie what you can detect) in any real fashion, and I prefer to use the AR to expedite some of the more inane tedious bullshit of breeding.
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Last edited by Blastoise; 05-03-2009 at 09:59 PM.
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Old 05-03-2009, 10:25 PM   #8
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If legitimacy is going to be defined as "what can be detected," then Pokésav Pokémon are all legitimate.

And the shit storm starts. Or at least it would have if this were SmogOn. Or, even more likely perhaps, I'd be banned and the thread would be locked.

But in all seriousness, if a program like Pokésav makes it so that I can create any Pokémon within reason -- reasonable nature, moves, IVs, EVs, etc. -- and it can pass all of the legality checkers that fans and Nintendo event teamsters have in place, then according to your definition that's "legit." And if that's the case, then seeing as AR is inferior to Pokésav you should just use that instead, as should every other person on SmogOn who agrees with your definition. While Pokésav allows you to do everything in Pokémon Diamond and Pearl that the Action Replay might, it has the added benefit of allowing you to dump your save file to your hard drive and play the game all over again. But even for the areas where they do achieve the same goals, Pokésav is easier. You can save any Pokémon to your hard drive and e-mail it to people around the world, something that to my knowledge the AR can't let you do. Not only can you clone your truly legitimate monsters but you can also edit the clones. For example, let's say you have a legitimate Infernape from story mode. You can clone it, and then you can edit the clones EVs so they're the way you'd want them to be. You could even clone the clone and edit the third Infernape to make his IVs whatever you wanted. And then, depending on who you're playing and what their thoughts are on cheating, you have three different Infernapes at the ready: modded, not-so-modded, and not modded at all.

Sorry for introducing this argument about Pokésav and AR, though. It's totally irrelevant and all my fault. Feel free to reply, and I'll do my best to let you have the last word. Sorry once again.
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Old 05-11-2009, 01:49 AM   #9
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Finally get around to this, yay.

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If legitimacy is going to be defined as "what can be detected," then Pokésav Pokémon are all legitimate.
If you hack them right, sure. Given the number of easily-detected shit hacks floating around though that's easier said than done.

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And the shit storm starts. Or at least it would have if this were SmogOn. Or, even more likely perhaps, I'd be banned and the thread would be locked.
Apparently Smogon killed your family and that's sad =(

And hacking threads are usually a no-go on Smogon because 99% of the hacking argument is philosophical, a matter of preference, and utterly impractical in the grand scheme of things.

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But in all seriousness, if a program like Pokésav makes it so that I can create any Pokémon within reason -- reasonable nature, moves, IVs, EVs, etc. -- and it can pass all of the legality checkers that fans and Nintendo event teamsters have in place, then according to your definition that's "legit."
Yes, because it falls within the values that are legitimately acquirable in game. What's the problem?

Pokemon data isn't some priceless Ming vase whose value is sullied the moment you use a hacking device, it's a bunch of 1's and 0's that will likely be erased dozens of times throughout the game's lifetime with no more consideration than you use squashing a bug. If I put a Pokemon up on the GTS and immediately take it back, the Pokemon I'm receiving is not literally the same Pokemon I put up: it's the same code, but my original was destroyed the minute the GTS upload was complete and the game was given the command to erase the data. Transferring Pokemon between your party and the in-game PC likely operates the same way. Similarly, if you pull a Pokemon off the GTS/through a trade/etc. and its values are legit, you have no way of knowing/proving that it was generated through a means outside of the game. It is, for all intents and purposes, legit.

That's the long and short of it, really: the game views legitimacy in a very different way than people do (and people's views on hacking, as you've probably realized, are incredibly arbitrary anyhow). Personally, that's fine by me: life's too short to worry if that sequence of 160ish bytes I received from the GTS was or was not generated legitimately five carts and several data overwrites ago.

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And if that's the case, then seeing as AR is inferior to Pokésav you should just use that instead, as should every other person on SmogOn who agrees with your definition.
First off, Pokesav is a software application: you still need some way to interface with the DS hardware. For most people that is--wonder of wonders!--an AR.

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While Pokésav allows you to do everything in Pokémon Diamond and Pearl that the Action Replay might, it has the added benefit of allowing you to dump your save file to your hard drive and play the game all over again.
Assuming I would, for whatever reason, want to play a handheld game where a significant number of my logged hours are spent, er, making logs in the bathroom, sure.

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But even for the areas where they do achieve the same goals, Pokésav is easier. You can save any Pokémon to your hard drive and e-mail it to people around the world, something that to my knowledge the AR can't let you do.
AR lets you do this easily: simply clone your Pokemon using the AR cloning code, then trade! Wow! Your recipient doesn't even need a working knowledge of Pokesav or external hardware to boot!

Quote:
Not only can you clone your truly legitimate monsters
You can do this in AR, and it's a lot faster. Drop it in the box, start+select, L+R to refresh the box, drop your Pokemon. Takes a few seconds per clone at max.

Quote:
For example, let's say you have a legitimate Infernape from story mode. You can clone it, and then you can edit the clones EVs so they're the way you'd want them to be. You could even clone the clone and edit the third Infernape to make his IVs whatever you wanted. And then, depending on who you're playing and what their thoughts are on cheating, you have three different Infernapes at the ready: modded, not-so-modded, and not modded at all.
...you can do this with an AR just as quickly and more easily. Actually, everything you mentioned is a lot easier with AR, since you don't have to go to the trouble of pulling any data off your DS cart and onto your computer (which you can only do with other, non-AR third party hardware IIRC).

Do you actually understand anything about AR/Pokesav at all?
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Old 05-11-2009, 02:43 AM   #10
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Thankfully my reply need not be quite so long as yours:

Yes, I do know quite a bit about both Pokésav and Action Replay.
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Old 05-13-2009, 03:33 PM   #11
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The sad thing is, as a long-time member of a community that revolves around collecting Pokemon merchandise, I can't bring myself to bat an eyelash at that when I've heard stories of cards selling for thousands and have witnessed two different Yahoo!Japan auctions where 2cm lumps of Umbreon-shaped plastic have sold for over $200 each (incidentially both to members of said community via deputy bidders). And I would say that one of them had an equally rare Espeon keychain involved, though in the grand scheme of things it doesn't pain me any less thinking about it considering that auction ran for over $300 for two small keychains. (Eeveelution collecting is SERIOUS BUSINESS.)
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