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Old 11-22-2011, 05:41 PM   #26
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I'm not saying they didn't do the weaknesses/resistances in the most retarded way ever (honestly I rage on things like Suicune, who takes any contaminants out of any water it touches, turning it to pure H2O, being weak to Electric, when pure H2O doesn't conduct electricity). Just saying that the idea of soft earth and hard earth is a good concept... that got incredibly screwed up.
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Old 11-22-2011, 05:51 PM   #27
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Okay, there we could agree. But in the end, I'm still more of an elemental reductionist than an elemental pro....ductivist? (Producer, Talon. Producer. ) So I'd really prefer to see the game bring things in elementally and deal with some of its other fun ideas along different axes. For example ...

- have there be a unified "Earth" element, but then on a different axis which deals with the nature of the attacks and the nature of the Earth-aligned critter, you can work out how the damage ought to be done. For example, Earthquake should not affect birds very badly but Mud Shot should affect them just as badly as Rock Throw would. Birds are fragile, man. And plenty of people have thrown mud at birds before and knocked them out of the sky doing so.

- have there be a unified "Water" element, but then you can have a temperature axis (lol, but I'm dead serious), and the value of a creature's defense along this axis would determine the sort of damage they'd take. So for example, very cold creatures (like Ice-types) would take extreme damage from Scald but minimal damage from Icy Wind. Vice versa, very hot creatures (like Fire-types) might not be so upset with Scald, even if it still hurts them, but throw "Ice-Cold Water" (Gen 6 attack ) on them and they're running for the hills in terror

So like ... I'm all for there still being splits, for there being distinctions between "soft earth and hard earth" or "cold water and hot water," etc, but I like to see those things dealt with separately, i.e. elements on one axis, "hardness" on another, and temperature on another still would be just some of the ways to better calculate things.
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:24 PM   #28
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I see no problem with reducing the number of weaknesses my rock types have. :P

Also, remember that punching a steel wall is an effective way of hurting it.
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Old 11-22-2011, 10:12 PM   #29
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Why do we have a Flying type and not a Wind type?

Dragon should have stayed with the 3 pokeys per generation standard.

How come a game that takes only hours to complete has one save file but something like Okami that's measured in days has like 30? Not to mention (ogawd) FINAL FANTASY.

Longest game ever has three save files, there's no excuse for Game Freak.
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Old 11-22-2011, 11:06 PM   #30
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How come a game that takes only hours to complete has one save file but something like Okami that's measured in days has like 30? Not to mention (ogawd) FINAL FANTASY.

Longest game ever has three save files, there's no excuse for Game Freak.
Not sure if you're being serious here or sarcastic because what you've written is a tad nonsensical.

First of all, Pokémon requiring multiple save files is something I addressed once before, to Kindrindra in 2010 earlier this year when B/W came out, and which I'll link you to here:
Link 1: Doppel introduces living evidence for why multiple saves'd be nice even for single child households
Read down from there to see my convo with Doppel.

Link 2: Dave offers another vote in favor of multiple saves
Self-explanatory.

Link 3: I explain to Kind why having multiple save files is good
I quote myself: "What part of 'multiple children per household' don't you get? ^^;"

Link 4: part of the convo started in Link 3 but some particularly salient points are made in the first half
Second of all, I'm not really sure what bearing the completion time has on whether a game ought to have multiple save files or not, but since you brought it up, I thought I should address that point. Beating Pokemon's story mode and beating Okami's story mode take comparable amounts of time. Okami's in that 20-30 hour range while Pokémon's in that 15-25 hour range. And as for beating either game in its entirety, beating Pokémon to 100% completion takes much much longer than beating Okami to 100% completion! Much much longer!

Third, not sure where you're getting the limited save files thing for Final Fantasy. In Final Fantasy 12, there were around 25 separate save files. Twenty-five. I've never played Final Fantasy 13, but from what I hear the number of save files you can have for that game is limited only by the amount of space you're willing to spare for it on your PS3's hard drive. (source) The days of only having three save files on a new FF game are gone. Sure, FF4 for the DS only had three, but that's because it's a throwback to the original game and/or the programmers are lazy and/or the DS cart legitimately can't store as many as twenty-five separate FF4-sized save files. I dunno.

Fourth, when you type "how many save files can you have in" into Google, do you know what it autocompletes? Try it out for yourself. Or click the spoiler box below for a sample screenshot.

Spoiler: show

Last edited by Talon87; 11-22-2011 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 12-01-2011, 08:31 PM   #31
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Also, remember that punching a steel wall is an effective way of hurting it.
Martial Artist breaks brick with head, next.

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Why do we have a Flying type and not a Wind type?
Flying essentially contains anything that has to do with air. Complaining about the name of a type is not a legit complaint (unless you're talking about dark).
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 12-01-2011, 08:37 PM   #32
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Martial Artist breaks brick with head, next.



Flying essentially contains anything that has to do with air. Complaining about the name of a type is not a legit complaint (unless you're talking about dark).
Make that brick solid steel. Next.
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Old 12-01-2011, 08:40 PM   #33
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Make that brick solid steel. Next.
Like I said, they break brick with head. Obviously, they use their foot to break steel.


Remember, guys. This is a GAME. Realism takes a back seat to fun.
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 12-01-2011, 08:43 PM   #34
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I'd like to see any martial artist, not matter how trained, try to destroy a tank by punching it.

That said, Steel would be a little too broken if it weren't for the Fighting weakness (though Bastiodon sure would love it!). It really should be weak to either Electric or Water instead, given that Electric has a surprising lack of SE coverage.
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Old 12-01-2011, 08:46 PM   #35
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Martial Artist breaks brick with head, next.
But this is stupid reasoning. Why?
  • Fighter tears blades of grass from ground, next.
  • Fighter drinks water from pond, next.
  • Fighter eats chickens and turkeys, next.
  • Fighter kicks other fighters' asses, next.
Would you honestly have us believe that because a martial artist can destroy something that it makes that something weak to martial arts? Rocks are not weak to martial arts. Quite the contrary: it is precisely because rocks are so tough against physical battery that martial artists use rock-breaking to learn how to focus their chi, as well as to demonstrate their prowess. You can't do shit to a corn stalk. It bends, it wavers, it breaks so easily. You need something tough, like a rock, to do anything. If this means that Rock-types ought to be 2x weak to Fighting, then by your logic Grass, Water, Flying, and even fellow Fighting ought to be 4x or 6x or 1,274,466x weak to Fighting, too!

The fact of the matter is, it makes about as much sense to say "Martial artist breaks bricks, therefore Rock weak to Fighting" as it does to say "Martial artist breaks other guy's rib, therefore Fighting weak to Fighting."

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Flying essentially contains anything that has to do with air. Complaining about the name of a type is not a legit complaint (unless you're talking about dark).
How is it not a legitimate complaint? Just because you declare so? Just because it threatens your pwecious childhood memowies of Pokeemon? Grow up! The fact of the matter is, it's pretty fucking stupid that they mixed in physiological types (like Flying or Bug) with elemental types (like water or electricity). In any other game, you would have bugs who happen to have an elemental affinity, not bugs for whom bug is their elemental affinity! Having a Bug type makes about as much sense as having a Mammal type or a Reptile type or a Fish type. So why don't we have those too? (And I do want those: but on a SEPARATE AXIS. lol Not on the same axis as the elements.) And as for Flying, no: it's been misnamed since day fucking one because Dodrio is an ostrich/emu who can't physically fly yet it's a Flying-type. Yes, I realize it can learn HM 02. No, I don't think it's smart. (At all. Something I'd retcon immediately if you gave me the helm.) Dodrio is not a flyer. Dodrio is a bird. Delibird is not a flyer either. (Yes, I realize he can learn Fly too. -_-; Stupid GameFreak is fucking stupid.) Delibird is a bird. They only forced these birds into being part of the "Flying" type because "Flying" in Gen 01, for all intents and purposes, meant bird. We didn't meet flying sea mantas or flying dandelion pluffs until Gen 2. In Gen 1, if you were cast as a Flying type, you were a bird. (Or the occasional insect. See: Butterfree.)

Last edited by Talon87; 12-01-2011 at 08:48 PM.
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Old 12-01-2011, 09:59 PM   #36
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I'd like to see any martial artist, not matter how trained, try to destroy a tank by punching it.
This is where stats come into play.


@Talon:
Stop thinking about fighting as 'guy who's a fighter'. Fighting demonstrates skill level better than typical combat (read: Normal). This is why Fighting beats Normal, but Fighting doesn't beat Fighting (Two people of equal skills= No one has advantage). And what I was getting at with Fighters breaking bricks was that fighting trumps those types because it's the clique image, not because it makes logical sense.

Yes, flying was a bad choice of name, but let's be honest here- what else is there to name it? You could go with Air, but then that excludes things like Mantine. Remember, they did ALMOST go with Bird, as Missingno makes evident.

The rest about types can pretty much be countered with a mix of "Types aren't everything- they add together with stats and about a billion other things to create specific instances." and "Video Game: Fun>Logic."
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 12-01-2011, 10:19 PM   #37
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Hey, look at that! I'm so forgetful I forgot my point.

What I meant to say is that Flying is the english name, and the original one could be totally different and more accurate. Unless we're complaining about the english translators. Then I'm totally okay with it. Complaining, that is.
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.

Last edited by Kindrindra; 12-01-2011 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 12-01-2011, 10:46 PM   #38
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Old 12-01-2011, 11:58 PM   #39
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What I meant to say is that Flying is the english name, and the original one could be totally different and more accurate.
No, the original name for the type is the ひこうタイプ hikou taipu "Flight type." Flight, flying, aviation, same idea. This is the same hikou you find in words like hikouki (airplane, lit. "flight machine") or hikousen (airship, lit. "flight ship").

A good guess though. The only type that really got changed when it came over here is the Dark type. The original name, あくタイプ aku taipu "Evil type," derives from 悪 aku "bad, wicked, evil." But they changed it to "Dark" because back in 2000 the Crazy Jynx Lady (i.e. the woman who got Jynx's skin color changed >_>) and other "Pokémon is Satanic!" people were at their prime and Nintendo was having none of it. So they made it "Dark" and spewed a bunch of bullshit about how Dark types really aren't so bad, they're really quite friendly, etc etc. And then the worst possible thing happened: it came true, and the original image of Dark types as these kind of hellspawnish creatures (Exhibit A: Houndoom) melted away and instead we got the Courier Houndoom Babysits Togepi episode in Johto. >_> A.k.a. not content to ruin it solely for themselves, the West ruined a perfectly cool idea for the East too.

Anyway, this all is a bit of a digression. Though I will throw out there the translational change which bothers me the most. First discovered this when I played Red raw back around 2006. You know how there's a category of Pokemon called "humanshape"? And it includes Pokemon like Kadabra, Jynx, Mr. Mime, and so on? Well, the original name for them in Japanese was にんぎょう ningyou. This word, 人形, is the Japanese word for "doll," and it literally means "human" 人 "shape" 形. In other words ... any Japanese child reads "ningyou" and thinks "doll," but some dumbshit translator over at NoA translated the term literally and so now we're all stuck with "humanshape" in the West. -_-;
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:29 AM   #40
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I always kinda thought of Dark as 'situationally evil'- like, they don't follow the established rules. So, kinda ranging from 'harmless prankster' to 'ThisWorldWillBeMine!'.

Humanshape is actually supposed to be doll? Well, that makes some stuff make more sense.


btw, random question, but where did you learn Japanese?
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:47 AM   #41
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College is where I got most of my fundamentals. Though it's been four and a half years since then, so technically I've been self-taught longer now than I've been college-educated in the language. ^^; But most of the past four and a half years has just been picking up vocabulary and random grammar forms.
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:59 PM   #42
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I like the 4 move limit. Without it, the metagame would be way too complicated.
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Old 02-21-2012, 07:04 PM   #43
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This is not difficult to understand. -.- My proposed change has no impact on the metagame whatsoever. You would still be limited to 4 moves in battle. You could not change your battle moves from within battle. Therefore, zero effect on the metagame. None. Nada. Zilch. All my proposal says is, "Outside of battle, you're free to re-decide what your four battle moves are. Pick from amongst the n many moves your creature has in his Moves Learned movelist."
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Old 02-21-2012, 07:30 PM   #44
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This is not difficult to understand. -.- My proposed change has no impact on the metagame whatsoever. You would still be limited to 4 moves in battle. You could not change your battle moves from within battle. Therefore, zero effect on the metagame. None. Nada. Zilch. All my proposal says is, "Outside of battle, you're free to re-decide what your four battle moves are. Pick from amongst the n many moves your creature has in his Moves Learned movelist."
Ah, sorry. Still, though, it could make the game too easy. Before challenging a tough enemy, you could just switch your moveset.
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:29 PM   #45
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Saw this on Serebii, thought it was at least tangentially relevant.

I think it's a pretty horrible list of suggestions. It pretty much changes the whole game.

I mean, I like the customization idea, but that'd be a pain in the ass to make decent and GameFreaks likely wouldn't.

I dunno. It's pretty clear that this guy hasn't played much Pokemon.
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:44 PM   #46
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Saw this on Serebii, thought it was at least tangentially relevant.

I think it's a pretty horrible list of suggestions. It pretty much changes the whole game.

I mean, I like the customization idea, but that'd be a pain in the ass to make decent and GameFreaks likely wouldn't.

I dunno. It's pretty clear that this guy hasn't played much Pokemon.
Addressing his list in numerical order ...

1. Not the biggest problem in the world to me, but as a fan, I do enjoy locked-in character designs for the protagonists because it allows us to remember them fondly as a community, for us to have a shared (hive mind? ) memory of how a particular character (who we are all fond of) looked. One of my problems with DQ9 -- in fact, why I dropped it and never went back -- was because of the "Your team is 100% customized by you" aspect. If Pokemon allowed us to change how our protagonists looked, it'd mean less fond memories of that character that are shared throughout the fandom. I dunno. If nothing else, it'd mean much less fanart featuring the protagonist. If he really wants this though, and if GameFreak really wants this, I don't really care too bad.

2. I'm okay with keeping EVs, but I'd like to be able to assign them the same way you assign stats when you create a D&D character: at the time of capture or (if you're feeling especially liberal) whenever the hell I want outside of battle. I dunno. If he wants to do away with them, I would be okay with that in theory. It'd simply mean that we're returning to a GSC-style metagame where you consider yourself lucky when you 2HKO something, where 3 is the par most people shoot for, and where even 4HKOs are acceptable if you're up against a wall.

3. I've been saying this since before Gen 5. Really wish they'd quit forcing themselves to add new creatures. If you have the occasional great idea (Galvantula, Cinccino), then great, do it. If not (Vanilluxe [dumb], Bouffalant [repetitive]), then don't.

4. What. This is where Jeri's "I'm pretty sure this guy hasn't played much Pokemon" stuff is starting to become apparent.

5. Cute concept. Certainly if you're good enough to become the Champion, you're good enough to at least be considered for your own gym. It'd be kind of interesting if you could do this and invite others' Miis character avatars over to your DS pak to join or to challenge your gym, and if you could do the same with their gyms.

6. WHAT. Fuck this guy. Not even reading past the word "Mewtwo." NEXT.

7. Uhh ...

8. No thanks, Modern Brofare fanatic. (It's increasingly clear where this guy is coming to us from ...)

9. I ... don't think you understand that some events work exactly like this. I think you think that all eventmon are just "walk into the department store and get it from the mailman." Yeah, sure, some of them are: and then there are the ones where you go to an entirely new region and fight shit and such just to get the 'mon. ("B-but it's not unique! Oh, piss off. It's not a big deal.)

10. This is basically him restating #6 above. My disdain is as intense now as it was four points ago.
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:49 PM   #47
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Saw this on Serebii, thought it was at least tangentially relevant.

I think it's a pretty horrible list of suggestions. It pretty much changes the whole game.

I mean, I like the customization idea, but that'd be a pain in the ass to make decent and GameFreaks likely wouldn't.

I dunno. It's pretty clear that this guy hasn't played much Pokemon.
They're all just ridiculous really. But in this one, I don't understand something:

Quote:
10. Don't tell us who we are. The more back-story you add to our character, the more bogged-down it feels. Just say we're students of some kind who were relocated to aid our game's Professor with some research. Let us develop our Rival naturally, like in the Silver/Gold games. Similarly, rather than purchasing a "Red" or "Blue" version, why not tie the Pokémon that appear to who your starter Pokémon is?
So it still creates the same problem of 'not being able to get all the Pokémon in one playthrough', which is the issue of having two versions in the first place. So really, this solution solves nothing.
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Old 03-01-2012, 05:29 PM   #48
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I think one of the issues they need to work on is overworld layout. I'm suggesting an open world sandbox, kinda. They would still have area restrictions, but you can choose not to take the main path. In simple man's terms, more like RPGs like Elder Scrolls or Fallout.
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Old 03-01-2012, 06:40 PM   #49
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I think one of the issues they need to work on is overworld layout. I'm suggesting an open world sandbox, kinda. They would still have area restrictions, but you can choose not to take the main path. In simple man's terms, more like RPGs like Elder Scrolls or Fallout.
>Sandbox


Dude, you're free to choose any combination of pokemon, give them any combination of items, moves, abilities, EVs, and more. Not enough sandbox for you?
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 03-01-2012, 06:44 PM   #50
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>Sandbox


Dude, you're free to choose any combination of pokemon, give them any combination of items, moves, abilities, EVs, and more. Not enough sandbox for you?
... Do you even know what sandbox means, Kin?
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