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Old 10-08-2017, 02:12 PM   #1
Emi
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Machamp FB and Expansion to BMGf

Expansion has been a topic that has been at the forefront of the minds of us and the community for a while now, so it was a pleasant surprise that we were contacted by the head administrator of BMGf a few days ago. The situation as described by Dig is that nothing has happened on the BMGf side of things outside of basically all of the posts being gutted, plus Tess and co have not even logged in to BMGf since May. Dig has not been in contact with Tess and co and so has asked us if we would be willing to expand over there, as Fizzy Bubbles is a welcome part of BMGf and they would like to see it have activity. After discussing it with the rest of the mods, I sent a PM telling him that we were interested in expansion but would have to consult the community first, and here we are.

In addition, it is worth noting that this purpose of this move is to benefit us in FB, UPN, and BMGf. It is not to stick it to Tess or any such similar notion, so please avoid this kind of rhetoric in this thread.

So here is our plan for expanding to BMGf:

What will change: There will be new zones on BMGf as well as events. Events will be more evenly split between UPN and BMGf in order to encourage activity. There is a possibility of having some shops over there as well, however, this would not apply to shops that are typically considered the weekly shops, in the interest of keeping things less complicated overall. We would be considering things like a TCG shop over on BMGf, and if any similar ideas come up, we would consider putting them in BMGf.

What will NOT change: Home boarding will still occur on UPN. BMGf will not serve as a home board for the interests of keeping things simpler and encouraging people to come onto UPN more. There will be a thread for member's posts on BMGf, but there will not be shops like the Daycare or Pokemart over on BMGf. The number of zones on UPN will remain the same as well. Any zones on BMGf will be additional zones to what we have now unless a ZA on UPN expresses interest in moving the zone.

What this will impact in the future: There is a strong possibility we will get new members, which means more ZUs and people to update. In addition, if we expand, the requested Battle Frontier would also be present on BMGf. We may consider having things like Secret Bases present on both forums.

Overall, we are looking for yays or nays and any concerns, suggestions, or questions on the expansion. We won't move forward with expansion if the community doesn't want it either.
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Old 10-08-2017, 02:42 PM   #2
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I am so in! Give me new zones, new people to update, gimme the Frontier! GIVE IT TO MEEE.
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Old 10-08-2017, 02:50 PM   #3
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Definitely all for branching out to Bulbagarden once more. It wasn't a huge success back in the Tess era, but then, I feel like removing the whole aspect of different homeboards is a good way to go. I'm confident we'd be able to handle the Bulbagarden branch of FB better than the old mods did. Definitely sounds like it'll help get more members to join, too, which I am definitely all in favor of. So yeah, absolutely in favor of this.
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Old 10-08-2017, 03:12 PM   #4
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Can't think of any valid reason to say no, so why not.
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Old 10-08-2017, 03:31 PM   #5
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While I am in favour I am also concerned with updator's getting overwhelmed and everything coming to a halt. If we have more updatees coming in, we need more updators as well. I don't know if it would be possible, but would it be possible for them to do a quick survey or something to see if people are interested/available to update. If we aren't gaining updators, we risk destroying what we have built.
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Old 10-08-2017, 03:35 PM   #6
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So I'm in agreement with TKF here. I personally think that expansion is all well and good but we should thin out some of the zones and such over to BMG until we have more active members as well as active updators and can transition from toe in the water to actually jumping in.
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Old 10-08-2017, 03:53 PM   #7
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All aboard on the yas train! Next stop: BMG!

In all seriousness though, I'm all for having that expansion to BMG Having more members is a huge welcome, both for FB and for UPN (and for BMG but I dunno, I find we're getting the bigger win in that win-win-win situation XP)


I do admit though that I'm a little worried (In-writing edit: as a few already mentioned) in terms of needing more updators and shop owners to take care of those in BMG (although the fact that weekly shops will stay in UPN helps a little.)

One idea thought (that Sneaze ninja'd me with, darn you! :P) of is to move a few of our current zones here to BMG so we're bringing zones there without the need to look for more updators... but I'm sure not only some updators and updatees from said zone(s) will not appreciate that move, but even if we do move zones there, the amount of updators needed will rise anyways because, well, the amount of updates will rise no matter what we do. So the only thing I can think of is to either convince a few of us here to become updators (which would be unlikely as I'm sure those who are not, like myself, have already established their decision) or to find updators among the new BMG members, which would be difficult as they're new.
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Old 10-08-2017, 03:57 PM   #8
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I really don't think our zones should move, if anything we should maybe limit their zones to start with? Let them access the free RP zones over here (II and Bedlam), and create 1 zone over there for them to start with. That would be 3 active adventures, which should be more than enough to satisfy them to start with. Once we get a gauge on how many are coming in and how many can update, we can expand them. Suddenly allowing more people to jump into our zones here will break us unless we put additional updators on zones but obviously we need to have them to do that.
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Old 10-08-2017, 04:06 PM   #9
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Hmmm, that could certainly work, especially since free RP zones are basically self-sustainable. We'll just need to secure a few updators for that new actual zone beforehand, obviously.
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Old 10-08-2017, 04:08 PM   #10
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Sorry but limiting new members is a no-no downward spiral that I'm really heavily against. It's just a can of worms and with people on BMG fully aware of how Tess treated FB we need to make sure we're giving them the open arms treatment.
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Old 10-08-2017, 04:14 PM   #11
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Limiting new members is basically the opposite of what we actually want to do. I'm sure that there is going to be people on BMGf with updating / roleplaying experience, so I don't think we really want to make things restricted, it is only going to hurt us in the long run. We're not just low on ZUs, we're also low on active members for ZUs to update for.
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Old 10-08-2017, 04:35 PM   #12
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Hmmm, good point on that too. I guess we just need to find a balance between "give them all we got", but without burning out every updator we got or otherwise not being able to keep up with the demand.
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Old 10-24-2017, 09:39 AM   #13
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So this conversation has died out a bit, and I want to address some of the concerns raised. At the very least, it seems everyone is in favour of expanding to BMG, albeit with some reservations. We will be continuing with the expansion, meaning we will now try to move the discussion on to specifics and how to tackle the raised issues.

Most notable is the one concerning updater resources and the threat of stretching ourselves out thin if we’re not careful. This is a valid concern that we have been wondering about as well which is why I’m hoping we can reach a consensus on this topic. While it seems everyone is in agreement on the general lines of what’s going to be made present on BMG, I would like to go through some of the finer details to see if we’re all on the same page. As of now, we have not yet gone into negotiations with BMG so anything is still possible. We do however have to keep in mind that BMG will in all likelihood ask us to have some threads present on their branch, or else have some moved over from UPN. (We cannot have an empty forum after all.) It is therefore in our best interest if we can come to an agreement on what we’re willing to transfer, if needed.
What I’m presenting below is a proposal so far for threads on BMG, taking each subforum one by one and finally the topic of zones. This proposal is subject to changes made by the community.


FB Registration
BMG will have its own Registration Thread and a copy of the Fizzy Bubbles: Rules and Guidelines. The registration thread is meant for the new members coming from BMG. You do not have to register on one forum if you already have so on the other. It goes without saying, but there you go.

FB Members List
Emi’s already said this, but there will be a members list over on BMG. You are not required to move your member list or make a copy over on BMG. Instead, it is meant to provide as an alternative to the member list here on UPN. New members can choose to place their Member Post on either BMG or UPN. (Preferably not both as this’ll only serve to inconvenience the player and their updaters.)

FB Shops
It would be unreasonable and difficult to manage if we made copies of the weekly shops over on BMG or split them across both branches. Therefore, at the very least, the Move Tutor, Daycare Centre and Fizzy candy Store will remain present on UPN and UPN alone for the time being. In a similar vein, The Pokébank and Staff Rewards will not be split up across two branches and will thus remain on UPN as well.
The Global Trade Station is a possible copy we can make over on BMG, if only to flesh out the FB Shops subforum.
As for the other shops, having existing copies of them on BMG, or otherwise moving the shop entirely to BMG, inconveniences the Shop Owners mostly. Therefore, I will refrain from making any decision on these, and instead ask each of the Shop Owners to decide for themselves whether they’re willing to move to BMG or make a copy of their shop over there. Please inform us of your decision. While shops are not the lifeblood of FB, having more than a few threads present on BMG will make it appear more active.

FB Time Out
Naturally, BMG will have its own Time Out thread for discussion. In addition, I think we can look into moving at least one of the Free-2RP threads - such as the FB Bar, Tree Grove or Nightclub – back to BMG. A separate Wishlist thread will be made as well for new members from BMG. As the Wishlist thread holds no specific restrictions or rules, players are free to have their Wishlist post be on either branch, both or neither.

Trainer Battles
There are currently no plans for implementing a battle system, battle grounds, TCG or contests. The reason for this is largely due to the lack of updater resources, with most of what we have needing to be distributed to zones. We have to consider the possibility, as Emi said, that when any of these are finally brought back to life, they may be present on the BMG branch instead of UPN.

Secret Bases
Secret Bases have little limitation other than the 1 base per member rule guideline. From a moderating perspective it requires little more than a subforum where they can exist. For this reason, we can hold Secret Bases to near-similar rules of a player’s Member Post; being that a member is allowed to have their Secret Base on their FB branch of choice. This change is made largely to try and accommodate any new members we receive from BMG.

FB Development
No sense in splitting up conversations on improvement. It is easier to have all the community’s input gathered in one place. It is staying on UPN without a copy on BMG.

FB Main Page
The Fizzytopian Post will have a copy on BMG. We will strive to have news and announcements appear on both forums. The Birthday Bubble Bash thread cannot be duplicated onto BMG. It is currently not run by any one specific SO and is allowed to be updated by any of them. Because of this, it is easy to double-claim if two instances of the thread exist. Event Threads, FB Q&A and FB Job Bureau can in theory be considered for duplication onto BMG, though that might be a tad redundant.


Zones
It is too much of a pain to create a new thread and have everyone who is in the middle of an adventure move to said thread. We can do this of course, but it is much more of a nuisance than a benefit to move them now. Cloud Garden, Le Marécage Noir, Bedlam Ridge, Incognito Isle, New Fizz City and Minnao Isles will therefore remain on UPN with no copies on BMG unless the Zone Admin decides otherwise.

Cincinno Royale is an event thread as well as a mini-zone and will thus also remain only on UPN.

Phantom isle and Cortoza are not meant to be existing zones and serve only to finish adventures from oldFB. There is no use in having these moved or split if they’re not actually accessible by the community.

This leaves the Free For All Zone. I do not get the sense that it has moved in a while or that any of the current adventures there will be continuing. I want to propose that the old Free For All Zone be closed down (moved to Records) and have a new thread appear on BMG. It is more of a symbolic gesture to fill up the BMG branch, but so far I don’t think much will be lost by this. We can argue that both branches gain their own Free For All Zone, but I want to point out that the object of these discussions is to also have some of the activity be moved to BMG. With limited zones appearing on BMG at the start, it would stand to benefit from having this thread be BMG-exclusive for a while. We can look into copying the FFAZ onto other branches once BMG’s properly fleshed out, in the future.

Minnao Isles was meant to be a Seasonal Zone (and still is) and thus temporary. No new adventures may be started there and all current adventures are being finished off. Once this has been done, Minnao Isles is expected to close and a new Seasonal Zone is meant to take its place. The method for how a new Seasonal Zone is chosen is not fully decided yet. The New Seasonal Zone can theoretically be made on the BMG branch instead of UPN.

Lastly; New Zones. We have been asked at least once for us to remove or change the 2-zone adventure limit, sometimes with the argument that FB was doing well and could handle the burden. If this is still true, and we don’t remove the limitation, then some zones can in theory handle a few more incoming members from BMG. In addition, some have stated that they’d like to update but have not been taken up into a zone because there are no openings, or else receive very few updatees. If this is still true, then FB can in theory put up a new zone successfully with dedicated updaters.


The crux of this matter lies in the ”ifs”. To know if FB can handle a new zone, whether it has the capacity for it and whether updaters are ready to take on new players, depends on how all current Zone Updaters and Zone Updators-to-be feel about this. What I would like to do is ask all current and prospective Zone Updaters is to inform us how they’re doing. Either publically in this thread or by PM, it doesn’t really matter. We need to pool all the opinions so we have a general idea on whether our zones are actually capable of handling more. Guideline questions:
  1. How many people are your currently updating and how many updates can you produce in a timescale?
  2. How many people do you think you can update without it affecting you too greatly?

-----

Tl;dr
  • Give us thoughts on what you think should and shouldn’t be present on the new BMG branch.
  • I think BMG can stand to have 4 Zones appear. These will be an as-of-yet to be named Free-2RP Area (Bar, Grove, nightclub, etc.), Free-For-All-Zone, New Seasonal Zone once Minnao isles closes and a Complete New Zone.
  • The last mentioned zone is dependent on what our updaters have to say about it. If Zone Updaters could please respond, tell us your thoughts on increasing the update-burden and what you can handle.
  • Shop Owners I’d like to ask to inform us if they’re capable and/or willing to manage a shop on BMG, possibly instead of UPN.


Once again, this is a proposal and not a set plan. Everything mentioned here is still subject to debate. We have not yet gone into discussion with BMG yet, but the more information we have on what the community wants and expects, the better armed we are for when we do.
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Old 10-24-2017, 12:12 PM   #14
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Here's a quick rundown of the CG's status: There are presently 19 people travelling in the zone between 3 updaters with myself included, but of those 19 only 9 have been actively replying in the past month or two (about 3 per updater).Morningstar, Patches, and myself make a point to write updates once a week or sometimes two weeks if we get busy IRL, but overall the workload is very consistent and not an issue for any of us. We just completed our first event at the beginning of the month as well, which was a big success. The bottom line is that if we got more people signing up from BMG, the CG would be able to handle it just fine if we got a few people here or there.

Overall about the move to BMG, I am in favor of it, but the one concern I have as I read your outline is that 90% of FB would still be located here on UPN (not my issue) while BMG would be very bare in comparison. It'll basically be a glorified advertisement link to UPN with its own subforum. I do think it's good to keep the important shops/zones/etc here on UPN, but I think we should try to come up with a few things that we can stick on BMG that would actually be used and not forgotten. Otherwise, I could see BMG turning into a ghost town after a month.
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Old 10-24-2017, 12:52 PM   #15
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Overall about the move to BMG, I am in favor of it, but the one concern I have as I read your outline is that 90% of FB would still be located here on UPN (not my issue) while BMG would be very bare in comparison. It'll basically be a glorified advertisement link to UPN with its own subforum. I do think it's good to keep the important shops/zones/etc here on UPN, but I think we should try to come up with a few things that we can stick on BMG that would actually be used and not forgotten. Otherwise, I could see BMG turning into a ghost town after a month.
First: Thanks for the info on Cloud Garden.

I agree with you 100% on this. Problem is, I'm hesitant to start picking Shop Names out of a hat that have to move to BMG. Because of that, I'm first hoping to hear from others, mostly SO's, how they feel about potentially moving to BMG. It should be understood, as you have pointed out, that to make the BMG branch a successful one and not just UPN's appendix, we'll have to move some important threads as well, which to some might constitute a sacrifice. I'm not sure how people would feel about having some of their shops suddenly relocated, so I'll add one more question for the community:

What (threads) would you be willing to move from UPN to BMG?
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Old 10-24-2017, 07:48 PM   #16
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So Sandaa and I were talking about how people on Discord bring up wanting Bond to be in its own thread every now and again because it seems very confusing to them that they have to do candy and gummi usage in different posts in the same thread. What if we were to move Bond/gummis to a separate thread on BMG? It'd catch two Pidgey with one Pokeball, though there would be inconveniences we would have to discuss about and see if they are too problematic to merit this being a good idea.
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Old 10-24-2017, 08:53 PM   #17
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I'm seconding GS's idea!

Now to put on my Boutique SO hat. Well after some thought, I wouldn't mind moving the Boutique to BMG. It isn't something that absolutely needs to be tied down to UPN, so why not? No way for making copies over the two though, since like the weekly shops, it'll make things harder to tract down every single registered thing between the two. (Note to self: make the "new" Boutique's third post a special characteristic tracker.)
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Old 10-24-2017, 09:07 PM   #18
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After a brief discussion with ABL, we've decided that we'd prefer the Hatchery stay on UPN. While willing to live with it if the mods decide otherwise, it's ultimately a shop that more services other SOs/ZAs and those with high level teams anyway, and some of the restrictions and problems BMG has had in the past with posts make it slightly impractical to move it there.
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Old 10-24-2017, 10:27 PM   #19
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So Sandaa and I were talking about how people on Discord bring up wanting Bond to be in its own thread every now and again because it seems very confusing to them that they have to do candy and gummi usage in different posts in the same thread. What if we were to move Bond/gummis to a separate thread on BMG? It'd catch two Pidgey with one Pokeball, though there would be inconveniences we would have to discuss about and see if they are too problematic to merit this being a good idea.
I'd be curious to how other people feel about Bond/Candy Shop, but I have spoken to people who told me they have no intentions of using BMG, which would mean that they would miss out on Bond if it were to move. I'd hate to leave people out or make them go out of their way to have access to it, so I would like to know what other people feel about this as well.

Edit: Well, it doesn't seem like people are lining up to comment on this, but my personal opinion is that if people aren't really on board with moving shops over to BMG I think it would be best to keep Bond on UPN with the rest of the main shops. It seems like a hassle to go to a different forum just to use one shop while the others are all on here still.

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Old 10-25-2017, 11:13 AM   #20
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FB Shops
It would be unreasonable and difficult to manage if we made copies of the weekly shops over on BMG or split them across both branches. Therefore, at the very least, the Move Tutor, Daycare Centre and Fizzy candy Store will remain present on UPN and UPN alone for the time being. In a similar vein, The Pokébank and Staff Rewards will not be split up across two branches and will thus remain on UPN as well.
The Global Trade Station is a possible copy we can make over on BMG, if only to flesh out the FB Shops subforum.
As for the other shops, having existing copies of them on BMG, or otherwise moving the shop entirely to BMG, inconveniences the Shop Owners mostly. Therefore, I will refrain from making any decision on these, and instead ask each of the Shop Owners to decide for themselves whether they’re willing to move to BMG or make a copy of their shop over there. Please inform us of your decision. While shops are not the lifeblood of FB, having more than a few threads present on BMG will make it appear more active.
Well, the MT isn’t moving regardless according to this but since I’m a SO I figured I’d just say that if I did have one of the shops that was moveable, I’d still want to stay here. I am happy about our expansion because I hope it brings in more members but I personally just don’t really feel like using anything other than UPN. I imagine I will have to use BMG to an extent when it’s established but I just prefer to be in one place because having too many different places to go just causes me to be more disorganized than I already am.

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I'd be curious to how other people feel about Bond/Candy Shop, but I have spoken to people who told me they have no intentions of using BMG, which would mean that they would miss out on Bond if it were to move. I'd hate to leave people out or make them go out of their way to have access to it, so I would like to know what other people feel about this as well.

Edit: Well, it doesn't seem like people are lining up to comment on this, but my personal opinion is that if people aren't really on board with moving shops over to BMG I think it would be best to keep Bond on UPN with the rest of the main shops. It seems like a hassle to go to a different forum just to use one shop while the others are all on here still.
Yeah, this pretty much goes with my reply above. I’m one of those people that really doesn’t want to use BMG and it’d be somewhat annoying to be forced over there because of a shop that I need. However, I do care about FB and I know that expanding is very important if we want to find more members so I am happy that we have the opportunity to do so. That said, although I personally don’t like being in two places, if it means helping this game be successful I can’t entirely say no.
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Old 10-25-2017, 11:18 AM   #21
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I for one will gladly do FB on BMG as well as UPN, as I've done in the past. Hell, one of my favorite zone adventures took place at BMG. Now, that being said, I know there are those among us who flat-out refuse to use BMG for one reason or another, and for that reason, I'm thinking we don't migrate anything really necessary over to BMG, at least not without leaving a copy at UPN. Bond, I feel, falls under that heading, as do the Daycare, Move Tutor, and weekly Rare Candy. If it's something that important in FB, and we're not willing to leave a copy here, then keep it here.
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Old 10-25-2017, 04:09 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Missingno. Master View Post
I for one will gladly do FB on BMG as well as UPN, as I've done in the past. Hell, one of my favorite zone adventures took place at BMG. Now, that being said, I know there are those among us who flat-out refuse to use BMG for one reason or another, and for that reason, I'm thinking we don't migrate anything really necessary over to BMG, at least not without leaving a copy at UPN. Bond, I feel, falls under that heading, as do the Daycare, Move Tutor, and weekly Rare Candy. If it's something that important in FB, and we're not willing to leave a copy here, then keep it here.
I can appreciate that sentiment, as I'm hesitant about having a duplicate Candy Store myself, but...

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Originally Posted by Sandaa View Post
Overall about the move to BMG, I am in favor of it, but the one concern I have as I read your outline is that 90% of FB would still be located here on UPN (not my issue) while BMG would be very bare in comparison. It'll basically be a glorified advertisement link to UPN with its own subforum. I do think it's good to keep the important shops/zones/etc here on UPN, but I think we should try to come up with a few things that we can stick on BMG that would actually be used and not forgotten. Otherwise, I could see BMG turning into a ghost town after a month.
...this hits the nail right on the head. Right now, nobody wants any of the important shops to be moved OR duplicated to BMG, other than the Boutique, so it'd be that and maaaaybe the Forecast Shop, neither of which get used on a regular basis. If we really want expansion into BMG (and we need it IMO), we have to provide the BMG branch something substantial shopwise, meaning something's got to give at some point. If we don't have that, we are not ready to expand, and FB will continue to suffer from a stagnant player population.

Having said that, there absolutely should be a Candy Store on UPN, but while I am hesitant about duplicating it for BMG I can also see it as being one of the first shops that people will want there.
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Old 10-28-2017, 12:12 PM   #23
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Alright, let's talk AC!

Moving to BMG is not my ideal, as I'm not really chomping at the bit to use their forum, but I'm also not against the idea. I'd prefer to stay at UPN, but I'm not opposed to moving to BMG. I definitely do not think the shop should be duplicated, however -- at least not as s 1:1 copy -- as that leaves more room for error between rosters.

Since there are people apparently opposed to using BMG, it does raise the issue that if the AC were moved to BMG, some people would be put in a position of being inconvenienced in order to use it. I suppose it would be possible to have two ACs -- one on each board and each with distinct and separate rosters of available Pokémon -- but then rules would have to be devised to prevent system abuse, such as the reinstatement of Home Boards.

I don't know. I'm all for the expansion and willing to go wherever I'm needed, but there are logistics.
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Old 10-31-2017, 04:26 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 134 View Post
Alright, let's talk AC!

Moving to BMG is not my ideal, as I'm not really chomping at the bit to use their forum, but I'm also not against the idea. I'd prefer to stay at UPN, but I'm not opposed to moving to BMG. I definitely do not think the shop should be duplicated, however -- at least not as s 1:1 copy -- as that leaves more room for error between rosters.

Since there are people apparently opposed to using BMG, it does raise the issue that if the AC were moved to BMG, some people would be put in a position of being inconvenienced in order to use it. I suppose it would be possible to have two ACs -- one on each board and each with distinct and separate rosters of available Pokémon -- but then rules would have to be devised to prevent system abuse, such as the reinstatement of Home Boards.

I don't know. I'm all for the expansion and willing to go wherever I'm needed, but there are logistics.
I kind of agree. I think it should be similar to how the AC functioned between Serebii and UPN (IE; there's only one, but all homeboards may use it). I think this would be the easiest way to prevent misuse and get a new influx of Pokemon and players. If they have t adopt over here, they'll keep coming here.

I think the same should stay true with a couple shops, but ones like the calendar (not really a shop but whatever), and perhaps the bank --- could be duplicated.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:54 PM   #25
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The gacha is willing to move or double up. It's a pretty dead place at the moment, so whatever kicks the dust up is fine with me.
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