UPNetwork  

Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > Debate

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-29-2017, 11:05 AM   #3776
Jerichi
プラスチック♡ラブ
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,764
A Republican-style tax plan is going to be a much less divisive goal than just about anything else. Pretty much everyone hates taxes (as necessary as they are).
__________________


私のことを消して本気で愛さないで 恋なんてただのゲーム 楽しめばそれでいい
閉ざした心を飾る 派手なドレスも靴も 孤独の友達

asbwffb

[jerichi]
Jerichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 01:31 PM   #3777
phoopes
Double Dragon
 
phoopes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,568
>Is Trump still popular?

I can't think of a time where his approval rating was higher than his disapproval rating. I don't think he's ever been popular.
__________________
phoopes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 03:23 PM   #3778
Mozz
Golden Wang of Justice
 
Mozz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,930
I think Bernie came/comes across as someone who cares about the country, and has minimal interest in his own personal legacy. Obama, Trump, HRC are on the opposite end of that spectrum in certain ways.
__________________
Mozz's Van, named after Bulbagardens creditor, was a hidden forum section where staff members could share pictures of their tiny penises and engage in homosex. Sadly, HAVA media, Bulbagardens new corporate overlord, forced it's closure. Can't have porn on a children's website.
Mozz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 05:11 PM   #3779
Blastoise
We deny our creators.
 
Blastoise's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Reduces construction time
Posts: 2,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Is Trump still popular? I thought the 100 days of not much accomplished would have hurt his popularity a bit.
Historically unpopular compared to other presidents at this point, but even Nixon had his hardcore defenders during Watergate so Trump could continue like this for a while barring some unforseen crisis.

Quote:
I mean, I do have some sympathy for Trump in how the Democrats are trying to stonewall him - unlike where the Republicans tried to stop Obama, who was ideologically opposed to them, Trump is a weird populist mix that should appeal to some Democratic constituencies.
1. Does he actually believe any of what he spouted on the campaign trail, though? Trump promised everything to everyone, which is an easy stance to take when you don't actually have to have concrete details but is much harder when you have to put policy to paper and there will be winners and losers. The AHCA is nothing like what Trump promised, but he (sort of?) threw his weight behind it because he was ultimately more concerned about checking a box on his campaign promises list than the actual implementation. It's generally been a safe assumption that Trump believes in what makes him look good (or plays well on TV) first, everything else second.

Infrastructure spending is widely considered the major area that Democrats and Trump could theoretically come together on, but how it's done matters: would it be Keynesian-style public works projects Democrats would favor, or would it be tax breaks/incentives that reward people for building a lot of toll roads at the expense of unsexy-but-necessary projects that are difficult to monetize (e.g. municipal water pipes)?

2. There's not a lot of appetite to work with Trump on the left. If the right is driven by Tea Partiers whose constituents demand no capitulation to the Demonrats, the left is being pushed by constituents who see no harm in punching back now that Republicans own the legislative and executive branches and therefore the consequences.

3. The first hundred days haven't exactly built a narrative that Trump is a profitable (or credible) man to do business with. The post-AHCA fallout was a boondoggle of messaging where Trump went on television to say how he didn't blame anyone in particular for the failure of the whip counts to come together, only to go on Twitter and throw shade at the House Freedom Caucus for their recalcitrance. Trump went from talking tough on China to eating out of Xi Jiping's hand with almost remarkable speed, and a lot of other world leaders seem to be grokking to the fact that Trump's bluster isn't backed up with much actual conviction. Trump backed down from his demand that the border wall funding be included in the continuing resolution so fast that it could give you whiplash.

Negotiating with someone requires them to have some actual consistent position you can work around, good faith, and a possibility that both parties will actually be able to deliver something resembling what they promised. Until Trump can actually show this (and having no major legislative accomplishments when you control both houses of Congress doesn't), there's not a lot of harm for Democrats in letting him flail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mozz View Post
I think Bernie came/comes across as someone who cares about the country, and has minimal interest in his own personal legacy. Obama, Trump, HRC are on the opposite end of that spectrum in certain ways.
To give Obama his due he was always going to go down in the history books as The First Black President, so he had/has to care at least somewhat.
__________________
"It does not matter anymore. We cannot change the past. The future will have to do."
-Windham Khatib
Blastoise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 11:43 PM   #3780
Shuckle
Mage of Mind
 
Shuckle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Land of Thought and Melody
Posts: 3,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangeet View Post
Which policies, laws or appointments of Trump in particular did you expect Democrats to support?
Taxes, infrastructure, and presumably health care.

I think Trump still has the chance to be a good President, but he needs to stop thinking that Rome can be built in a day. His first 100 days are not over yet, and if he had waited a few weeks to make sure that health care and education plans, y'know, made sense, he might have had Democrats on board.

Reform Obamacare to Americare, everyone's happy regardless of what in particular is reformed. Hell, subsidize medical school. We need doctors badly. If that's all Americare does over Obamacare, Trump could have gone down as The Great Uniter. It's way less about substance and way more about style.

For a guy whose campaign was Optics 101, his post-election decisions were really strange, and his post-inauguration actions have been extremely stupid. What happened? Putin stopped helping?
__________________
Shuckle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 11:56 PM   #3781
Rangeet
Foot, meet mouth.
 
Rangeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Beyond the Wall
Posts: 4,356
Send a message via MSN to Rangeet Send a message via Skype™ to Rangeet
Um.

What policies, laws or appointments of Trump that he has actually tried to get passed and Democrats have obstructed in particular did you expect Democrats to support?

Because those taxes, infrastructure and health care plans are completely imaginary. Trump's tax plan is literally nothing. More for veterans! More for the wall! More for infrastructure! Oh, but tax cuts for everyone! It's like one of Sciz's signatures. A real tax plan has details and calculations. Trump might be literally incapable of crafting one that's good enough to stand up in the real world.

Even assuming he did have a decent tax plan...why on earth are you expecting Democrats to be happy with INCREASING funding for the military and dumb shit like the wall while cutting taxes? Democrats are not going to have any part of that, especially while...

Trump's medicare plan is absolutely, breathtakingly, NOTHING. It's so nothing, even Republicans would rather have Obamacare, which they spent an insane amount of resources on to make sure it was the worst thing Obama could possibly pass through. And then his idea of making a big deal is "Hey, I'll spend money for health care if you guys spend money on the wall!"

As for infrastructure, I still have no idea what plans at all he's made or tried to get passed through for that. But if they're anything like the ones I just mentioned, they're laughable.

So...what? You can't just make up imaginary plans and claim Democrats shouldn't have obstructed them. Like, Dopple was complaining about actual obstruction. That was a really weirdly vague reply.

__________________
Spoiler: show
Rangeet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2017, 08:11 AM   #3782
Lady Kuno
Sad times are just times that are sad
 
Lady Kuno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 226,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuckle View Post
For a guy whose campaign was Optics 101, his post-election decisions were really strange, and his post-inauguration actions have been extremely stupid. What happened? Putin stopped helping?
Even the president cant stop the amount of power and control the CIA and Wallstreet have.
__________________
JUST NUKE THE FUCKING SUN
Lady Kuno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2017, 10:36 AM   #3783
Shuckle
Mage of Mind
 
Shuckle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Land of Thought and Melody
Posts: 3,154
I understand what you're saying Geet, but I think it's a little silly to argue with me that he's making bad decisions/has nothing. I know full well that he's got nothing. My point was that he could have possibly, idk, done something where you, you talk to people, and you offer to help them with what they want, and then they help you make sure it turns out well, and you both get something out of it. He could do that with the Democrats if he wanted.

I think it starts with a D?
__________________
Shuckle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2017, 10:40 AM   #3784
Jerichi
プラスチック♡ラブ
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,764
Maybe he's just incompetent? Seems more likely than some convoluted Xanatos Gambit
__________________


私のことを消して本気で愛さないで 恋なんてただのゲーム 楽しめばそれでいい
閉ざした心を飾る 派手なドレスも靴も 孤独の友達

asbwffb

[jerichi]
Jerichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2017, 12:14 PM   #3785
Altocharizard55
The Scientist
 
Altocharizard55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerichi View Post
Maybe he's just incompetent? Seems more likely than some convoluted Xanatos Gambit
__________________


PASBL Stats

TL 4 (35-21-6)
Current owner of the Onslaught Badge and the Monolith Badge
Previous owner of the Indurate Badge and the Dual Wing Badge (Pre-scrap)
216 TP - 84 KOs - 20 SP (11 SP Debt to Machamp-X)
(W/L/D and stats recompiled as of 4/25/17)
Observe. Adapt. Evolve.
Altocharizard55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2017, 09:04 PM   #3786
Shuckle
Mage of Mind
 
Shuckle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Land of Thought and Melody
Posts: 3,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerichi View Post
Maybe he's just incompetent? Seems more likely than some convoluted Xanatos Gambit
gambit != optics

He went from turning Hillary Clinton into "the woman candidate" by goading her into "playing the woman card" to picking Steve Bannon to sit on his national security council and appointing Betsy DeVos as Sec. of Ed. and making Jared Kushner a senior advisor.

It's like getting carefully and meticulously destroyed for the first six rounds of scrabble, but then your opponent starts playing words like "kooaloo" and "dizarty" instead of "gherkins" or "quartz." And when he finally decides to play a real word, it's "fart" and he won't stop giggling about it.
__________________
Shuckle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2017, 11:22 AM   #3787
Jerichi
プラスチック♡ラブ
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,764
http://www.reuters.com/article/infos...-idINKBN17Y0A2
Background: InfoSys is an Indian IT recruitment firm alleged to abuse US immigration laws and visas to undercut US workers. They're now looking to hire 10k US workers. The worm has turned.
__________________


私のことを消して本気で愛さないで 恋なんてただのゲーム 楽しめばそれでいい
閉ざした心を飾る 派手なドレスも靴も 孤独の友達

asbwffb

[jerichi]
Jerichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2017, 02:42 PM   #3788
Blastoise
We deny our creators.
 
Blastoise's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Reduces construction time
Posts: 2,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuckle View Post
gambit != optics

He went from turning Hillary Clinton into "the woman candidate" by goading her into "playing the woman card" to picking Steve Bannon to sit on his national security council and appointing Betsy DeVos as Sec. of Ed. and making Jared Kushner a senior advisor.

It's like getting carefully and meticulously destroyed for the first six rounds of scrabble, but then your opponent starts playing words like "kooaloo" and "dizarty" instead of "gherkins" or "quartz." And when he finally decides to play a real word, it's "fart" and he won't stop giggling about it.
It could also be that Trump is really good at self promotion and promising things, not good at delivering, and that there's a difference between running for president and actually being president.
__________________
"It does not matter anymore. We cannot change the past. The future will have to do."
-Windham Khatib
Blastoise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2017, 05:37 PM   #3789
SoS
Ducks gonna duck
 
SoS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,823
Soooo Comey got fired. How about that.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Concept View Post
Why are you always a pretty princess?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Son_of_Shadows View Post
Because I look damn good in a dress.
Fizzy Bubbles Team
PASBL
Wild Future
SoS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2017, 06:08 PM   #3790
Jerichi
プラスチック♡ラブ
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,764
lol
__________________


私のことを消して本気で愛さないで 恋なんてただのゲーム 楽しめばそれでいい
閉ざした心を飾る 派手なドレスも靴も 孤独の友達

asbwffb

[jerichi]
Jerichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2017, 07:23 PM   #3791
Lady Kuno
Sad times are just times that are sad
 
Lady Kuno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 226,274
I'm sitting here in anticipation of some juicy leaks.
__________________
JUST NUKE THE FUCKING SUN
Lady Kuno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2017, 08:26 PM   #3792
Stealthy
A New and Original Person
 
Stealthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 949
Excuse Reason for firing is apparently how he handled the Hillary email investigation. Fucking hilarious.
Stealthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2017, 10:50 PM   #3793
deoxys
(づ-̩̩̩-̩̩̩_-̩̩̩-̩̩̩)づ
 
deoxys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: A Place Further than the Universe
Posts: 6,505
Grand jury subpoenas issued for Russia investigation.

Anyone have any popcorn? I ran out.
deoxys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2017, 05:48 AM   #3794
Crys
Way too much porn
 
Crys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 1,244
so this is a thing. (gofccyourself.com, which auto links to the fcc page)
Crys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2017, 06:52 AM   #3795
Snorby
Snackin'
 
Snorby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,751
It's a pretty amazing thing, too
__________________

Click on Fawful for my ASB squad summary. Other links coming soon.
Snorby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2017, 07:17 AM   #3796
Jerichi
プラスチック♡ラブ
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,764
http://m.motherjones.com/politics/20...i-firing-prank
laughs forever
__________________


私のことを消して本気で愛さないで 恋なんてただのゲーム 楽しめばそれでいい
閉ざした心を飾る 派手なドレスも靴も 孤独の友達

asbwffb

[jerichi]
Jerichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2017, 03:13 PM   #3797
Blastoise
We deny our creators.
 
Blastoise's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Reduces construction time
Posts: 2,845
It's almost kind of impressive how badly the White House has managed to fuck up the messaging of this in almost every conceivable fashion that it could have been fucked up.

The irony for me is that I've come around to the opinion that there's probably no smoking gun with Trump and Russia (individuals in the campaign might have been involved in less-than-above-board dealings, but that likely had more to do with Trump's campaign being so radioactive that only those with nothing to lose politically or amoral mercenary shitheads like Paul Manafort were willing to sign on rather than Trump and Putin haggling over the piss tape in a smoke filled room), but Trump has an almost uncanny genius to make it worse ("I'm firing you, thanks for telling me repeatedly that I am totally not being investigated").
__________________
"It does not matter anymore. We cannot change the past. The future will have to do."
-Windham Khatib
Blastoise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2017, 05:52 AM   #3798
Concept
Archbishop of Banterbury
 
Concept's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Nipple-Hunting with Elsie and Kairne
Posts: 6,999
Send a message via Skype™ to Concept
Regardless of whether he's trying to derail the Russia investigation or legit firing Comey for unrelated reasons, this is a monstrously stupid move.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTerry
What can the harvest hope for, if not the care of the reaper man?
Concept is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 10:50 PM   #3799
Blastoise
We deny our creators.
 
Blastoise's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Reduces construction time
Posts: 2,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Concept View Post
Regardless of whether he's trying to derail the Russia investigation or legit firing Comey for unrelated reasons, this is a monstrously stupid move.
Four day segue, but somehow still not as stupid as revealing sensitive classified information to Russian diplomats because Trump can't keep his fucking mouth shut and/or give more than a moment's attention to the intelligence briefings that an entire wing of the government creates for his personal benefit.

I honestly don't know what's real and what's bullshit anymore. Should a presidency be entering the fucking Tyson Zone less than a year in? Should a presidency enter the Tyson Zone period?
__________________
"It does not matter anymore. We cannot change the past. The future will have to do."
-Windham Khatib
Blastoise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2017, 07:18 AM   #3800
Jerichi
プラスチック♡ラブ
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,764
Does unauthorized dissemination of classified information to a foreign party fit the definition of treason?
__________________


私のことを消して本気で愛さないで 恋なんてただのゲーム 楽しめばそれでいい
閉ざした心を飾る 派手なドレスも靴も 孤独の友達

asbwffb

[jerichi]
Jerichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > Debate


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:05 AM.


Design By: Miner Skinz.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.