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Old 05-21-2009, 06:20 PM   #251
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And I would gladly contribute to their ass wiping if they could break down and just do it already, nearly everybody wants it.
Far be it from me to suggest Nintendo not put out a game that would pretty much make me a hikkimori until I die, but...

1. Running an MMO requires a significant infrastructure (personnel, servers, etc.), something that tends to run counter to Nintendo's "lean and mean" philosophy
2. You're competing with WoW
3. Creating a MMO would probably be the end of their lucrative Game Boy franchise, since the main selling point each gen (hundreds of new 'mons) would be expected to go the MMO and people would revolt if it didn't happen. Since an MMO takes years and millions of dollars to develop for an uncertain return and a main Pokemon title takes (allegedly) $4 million and is guaranteed to sell 10 million copies I can see where Nintendo would rather take the series in financial terms.
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Old 05-21-2009, 06:29 PM   #252
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A third person game like that would be the first step toward getting mature Pokemon OVA's. Without, y'know, the infant formula and non-permanent damage we've all grown disgusted by.
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Old 05-21-2009, 07:58 PM   #253
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A third person game like that would be the first step toward getting mature Pokemon OVA's. Without, y'know, the infant formula and non-permanent damage we've all grown disgusted by.
Good luck with that.
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Old 05-25-2009, 04:38 PM   #254
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I think Dopple's referring to the parts of the anime that make people look at Pokémon and go "yeah, definitely a kids show" such as the Pikachu short films and how the shows battle style has gotten increasingly less violent over the years.
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Old 05-25-2009, 08:09 PM   #255
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Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees ... ?

The point is, you're fighting an uphill battle to try to get Pokemon battles to become more violent. Long ago, PETA claimed that Pokemon was immoral because it encouraged animal abuse (i.e. capture the animal, stuff it in a tiny ball, stuff the tiny ball into a dark corner of your pocket or backpack, and forget all about him except for when you call him out to viciously attack fellow Pokemon/animals). But because it was PETA, they were laughed off stage and the media were quick to side with the Pokemon fans in comparing the violence in, say, Pokemon with the violence in the original Super Mario Bros. (you jump on people's heads, thereby squishing them to death, and you toss a dragon into a fiery pit of lava not but 3 seconds after you meet him) or in other vintage video games which PETA couldn't possibly hope to attack persuasively.

But that was almost a decade ago. Now it's 2009, and it's not just PETA who are up in arms about dog fighting. The American Humane Society and other well-known and more respected (or less disrespected than PETA :p) organizations have been fighting, imo, the good fight against animal abuse for the last two years and have made big strides courtesy of the media's getting the Michael Vick story into John and Jane Doe's minds.

What I don't like is when these groups cross over from the real world and into the world of fantasy ("Harry Potter's a horrible book! Rowling has Harry kill and torture all sorts of animals!"). Thankfully they haven't done it pro-actively yet, but I'm pretty sure that if one of you were to petition for a more violent Pokemon cartoon show that these groups would react to your petition pretty heatedly and pretty quickly. And the thing is, they have the media and the common populace on their side right now (poor puppies , bad Michael Vick!) and all you have are the libertarian pedophiles who incessantly cite the differences to you between loli and child pornography and why the Supreme Court must uphold the difference between real victims and fictional victims. You'd be bed buddies with them. Yeah. Chew on that. John and Jane think you're the next Michael Vick and the only guy who believes you proudly flashes his Nambla membership card on your local television news station.
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Old 05-27-2009, 07:50 PM   #256
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I think the real problem isn't animal abuse, but taking a generally accepted childhood icon and then perverting it for an older audience.

It's not like The Watchman. Watchman adopted analogues like the general premise of a comic-book world without pooling from any specific series.

While, say, adapting one of the manga series premises as an OVA that features Pokemon deaths and serious plots that revolved around the humans with Pokemon as an accessory to their drama, would provoke a far greater inflammatory response than the animal abuse issue.

My argument against that was Pokemon was originally serious and has degraded since. The series isn't about Ash anymore; once upon a time, he was the main character and his struggles actually meant something. He and his Pikachu were once special. That's been lost since the original series.

Sadly, I must concede Vran's insinuation that heck would freeze over before an older Pokemon fan got the serious story he wants, but I always look to the movies and see that serious plots are still being animated. So, there's always that small chance it could happen...
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:37 PM   #257
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Dopple: I completely agree. This is why I think the first two seasons, and the third to a degree, were the only good ones. Orange Islands gave Ash the tournament victory he was looking for; Johto gave him his overcoming Gary, which was supposed to be a huge turning point. But ever since Hoenn the show has been milked into a recycled and repetitive plot; Go to new region, catch new Pokemon, get 8 badges, fight what was once serious but is now comedy relief Team Rocket every episode, make a new team fill their void.

Not to mention with the introduction of May and Dawn, Ash has lost his importance as a main character. I do agree, the movies generally seem to have a good plot (and from what I've seen, the new one with Arceus is going to be one of the best movies made yet, it looks very promising). But I want some action; Character deaths, epic fight scenes, plot twists, that sort of thing. But that will unfortunately never happen.
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Old 05-28-2009, 03:02 AM   #258
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Not to mention with the introduction of May and Dawn, Ash has lost his importance as a main character.
lol, are you kidding? From what I've seen of the D/P saga Dawn can't take a shit without moral (and in some cases, more than that) support from Ash and Brock.
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:34 PM   #259
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lol, are you kidding? From what I've seen of the D/P saga Dawn can't take a shit without moral (and in some cases, more than that) support from Ash and Brock.
Sorry, I really haven't seen much of D/P saga, I only assumed that Dawn was much like May in the sense of "Hey look, I'm a main character now too because of Pokemon contests, oh yeah".
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Old 06-07-2009, 03:21 PM   #260
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So there's a pedometer included with copies of HGSS. You can use it to train up a pokemon whilst on the go via walking/running/shaking.

Despite the fact a pedometer seems unreliable in terms of storing one of your pokemon, I think it's a very inovative idea. I walk quite a lot, and it'd defonetly encourage other people to exersize. I can just imagine people finding a way to exploit it (attaching it to a dog, throwing it into a tumble drier) Xd
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Old 06-07-2009, 03:55 PM   #261
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>PokeWalk

So since Pocket Pikachu 2 no longer exists, they replace it with this?

Hmmm. That's neat. Screw exercise, if I can level up Pokemon via this thing, then I'm taking it with me everywhere.
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Old 06-10-2009, 11:17 AM   #262
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Looks like you can get Groudon and Kyogre in the games, news is up on Serebii and undoubtedly Bulbapedia or something.
It looks like you'll also be able to get Giratina, Dialga, and Palkia with the movie Arceus and Rayquaza by bringing both Kyogre and Groudon.
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Old 06-10-2009, 11:22 AM   #263
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Looks like you can get Groudon and Kyogre in the games
From a story perspective, I can't say I'm excited to hear this unless it's indirect confirmation of Hoenn's inclusion in the games. It just doesn't make any sense for Groudon and Kyogre to appear in Johto. But story aside, this is great news even without direct confirmation of HGSS including multiple regions: because it confirms that the games will in-game, sans trade, have non-Kanto non-Johto creatures. And my thinking is that if they're going to in-game include non-Kanto non-Johto legendaries, then there's absolutely no reason for us to doubt any longer that they wouldn't include non-legendaries as well.

Now the only question will be how far do they plan on taking it.
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Old 06-10-2009, 11:05 PM   #264
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I see that by trading Arceus over from D/P/Pt, you unlock a event with him as well as either a level 1 Dialga, Palkia, or Giratina. Hmmm.

And Kyogre=HeartGold, Groudon=SoulSilver. Vran's right, these legends don't really seem to fit into Kanto or Johto, so it would be really neat if this was hinting at possibly the inclusion of Hoenn, as well as Kanto and Johto.

Wouldn't it be something if it did? Like this took place in Hoenn prior to R/S/E. Maybe Team Rocket gave up hope on Giovanni returning, and broke up and moved to Hoenn after learning of Kyogre and Groudon. They quarrled, and split into two, forming Magma and Aqua (although that would in no way be canon to the anime :P), but it would certainly shed light on Team A and M's backstories, give Team Rocket a fitting end, and would also possibly nullify the possibility of a RubySun SapphireSea remake xP (or whatever they'd call it).

Sigh. Too bad there's a 3% chance I'm correct.
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Old 06-11-2009, 09:49 AM   #265
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There is now a Jirachi giveaway associated with the game too. It apparently unlocks a special aread within the game. Perhaps more fuel to Deoxys' wonderful idea.
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Old 06-11-2009, 09:52 AM   #266
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I don't know if I'd like Team Aqua and Magma to be Rocket descendants, but I'm not entirely opposed to the idea either. If it were done well, then great, I have no problem with it. But from what we currently know about the story from the games (and the games alone), Aqua and Magma seem to be more like local mafia rivals than members of a national crime syndicate.

Speaking of geography, seeing as they've pretty much done almost all of Japan by this point ...
Kanto = Kantou (Tokyo)
Johto = Kansai (Kyoto, Osaka)
Hoenn = I've heard it argued for Shikoku, and I can see it, sort of, but if true then this would be the least fitting Pokéregion-to-realworldregion yet imo
Sinnoh = Hokkaido, arguably the most easily recognizable of the four comparisons

They've only got two or three regions left and then it's international waters time!

Spoiler: show
No.1 = Touhoku / Hokutou region of Japan, i.e. the northern segment of Honshuu, famous for being the home to most of Japan's country folk. People from this region of Japan famously are embarrassed by their accents when they come into contact with outsiders because of the national prejudice against the accent as backwards or hickish.

No.2 = the famous Kyuushuu region of Japan, and perhaps the last of the four main islands to be featured in a Pokemon game. (Kanto and Johto double-dipped the largest island, Honshuu; and it's unclear whether Kyuushuu's northernmost territories constituted Hoenn's southernmost territories or not). This would be the part of Japan famously associated with the Dutch traders who were the first Europeans to arrive in Japan, with Kagoshima (refuge for Christian heretics during the Edo period), with Satsuma (famous province and an even more famous provincial warlord who played a key part in the Meiji Revolution)

No.3 = the Ryuukyuu Islands, a.k.a. Okinawa (the capital of the former Ryuukyuu kingdom) and its neighboring islands. Furthest to the south in modern-day Japan, this tiny island province is the home to karate and similar martial arts. Probably wouldn't be big enough for a full-blown Pokémon game unless it were like the anime's Orange Islands. Indeed, the reason I'm listing it separately from Kyuushuu is that, while technically under the jurisdiction of Kagoshima prefecture, most fans speculate that the Orange Islands were supposed to be the Ryuukyuu islands, and so they're already taken and ineligible to be recycled.

After that? We've pretty much done ~all of Japan. Which means ... ... Korean peninsula? Taiwan? Southern China?
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Old 06-11-2009, 04:06 PM   #267
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I don't know if I'd like Team Aqua and Magma to be Rocket descendants, but I'm not entirely opposed to the idea either. If it were done well, then great, I have no problem with it. But from what we currently know about the story from the games (and the games alone), Aqua and Magma seem to be more like local mafia rivals than members of a national crime syndicate.

Speaking of geography, seeing as they've pretty much done almost all of Japan by this point ...
Kanto = Kantou (Tokyo)
Johto = Kansai (Kyoto, Osaka)
Hoenn = I've heard it argued for Shikoku, and I can see it, sort of, but if true then this would be the least fitting Pokéregion-to-realworldregion yet imo
Sinnoh = Hokkaido, arguably the most easily recognizable of the four comparisons

They've only got two or three regions left and then it's international waters time!

Spoiler: show
No.1 = Touhoku / Hokutou region of Japan, i.e. the northern segment of Honshuu, famous for being the home to most of Japan's country folk. People from this region of Japan famously are embarrassed by their accents when they come into contact with outsiders because of the national prejudice against the accent as backwards or hickish

No.2 = the famous Kyuushuu region of Japan, and perhaps the last of the four main islands to be featured in a Pokemon game. (Kanto and Johto double-dipped the largest island, Honshuu; and it's unclear whether Kyuushuu's northernmost territories constituted Hoenn's southernmost territories or not). This would be the part of Japan famously associated with the Dutch traders who were the first Europeans to arrive in Japan, with Kagoshima (refuge for Christian heretics during the Edo period), with Satsuma (famous province and an even more famous provincial warlord who played a key part in the Meiji Revolution

No.3 = the Ryuukyuu Islands, a.k.a. Okinawa (the capital of the former Ryuukyuu kingdom) and its neighboring islands. Furthest to the south in modern-day Japan, this tiny island province is the home to karate and similar martial arts. Probably wouldn't be big enough for a full-blown Pokémon game unless it were like the anime's Orange Islands. Indeed, the reason I'm listing it separately from Kyuushuu is that, while technically under the jurisdiction of Kagoshima prefecture, most fans speculate that the Orange Islands
were supposed to be the Ryuukyuu islands, and so they're already taken and ineligible to ecycled.

After that? We've pretty much done ~all of Japan. Which means ... ... Korean peninsula? Taiwan? Southern China?
Acttually, if you look at a map of Kyuushuu, Hoenn is modeled after that region. Masuda actually confirned it himself. Which actually means Shikoku unused land.

And I don't think you mentioned it, but the Sevii islands are modeled after the Izu islands.

The more you know.... ;P

Hope Jirachi's inclusion means a big YES to Hoenn. While it is my least favorite region (alomst tied with Sinnoh), it would be great if they put 3 regions in one game. 24 badges, I'd love it.
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Old 06-11-2009, 04:16 PM   #268
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The levels on Johto were low enough the first time round with only one extra region. With two, they'd be ridiculous. We'd have an E4 with levels on the 30's, tops.

I could see Hoenn being put in place of Kanto, though I'd hope for neither.
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Old 06-11-2009, 04:21 PM   #269
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The levels on Johto were low enough the first time round with only one extra region. With two, they'd be ridiculous. We'd have an E4 with levels on the 30's, tops.
Maybe so, but you could think of Hoenn as a bonus accessible after Kanto is completed. Continuing over there, levels are either a. Higher, or b. Normal, and they expect you to trsin more Pokemon.

Just sayin.

Also, new HGSS box art is out. http://pokebeach.com/2009/06/heartgo...silver-box-art
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Old 06-11-2009, 04:30 PM   #270
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Maybe so, but you could think of Hoenn as a bonus accessible after Kanto is completed. Continuing over there, levels are either a. Higher, or b. Normal, and they expect you to trsin more Pokemon.

Just sayin.

Also, new HGSS box art is out. http://pokebeach.com/2009/06/heartgo...silver-box-art
When playing crystal, I used to do that and ditch all of my team after the E4, taking one pokemon with me and training a new team in Kanto.

The only way they could do it is either to force people to ditch their teams (which would be horrendously unpopular) or redo the levels so Johto would be 1-40 ish, Kanto 35-55/60 and Hoenn from 55-80 ish. While the higher level endgame would be welcome, but the short Johto and Kanto would create a massive outcry.
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Old 06-11-2009, 04:55 PM   #271
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The solution is fairly straightforward: screw the "Look at me, Ma! I can walk through walls! " cheaters and make it so that the level caps fit with the plot progression.

Johto = Level 2 through Level 40 to 45 for your opposition pre-E4, and 45-55 for the E4

Kanto = Level 50 (Surge, assuming we land in Vermilion first) to Level 75* (Gary, "Blue")

Mt. Silver's Ash ("Red", whatever) = a team of six Level 100s: Charizard, Blastoise, Venusaur, Pikachu, Tauros, and Snorlax iirc is what he had last time, but double-dipping on the pure bulky Normal-type seems like it could be an error on my part, and perhaps he had a Skarmory or some other GSCmon. I forget: it's been very nearly a solid decade since the games came out!

* lower Gary's level to 70 if Hoenn is included.

Hoenn = Level 70 to Level 90

The reason they haven't provided trainers in-game with high levels is because they've been afraid of letting kids get Level 100s too quickly. But considering that's no longer issue and the reason it's no longer an issue is thanks to them themselves!! -- I'm referring to the fact that WiFi battles auto-adjust levels now, for the most part -- I would hope that they'd realize it's insanity to give us an extra region or two and to not boost the levels higher for a fun challenge! @_@


As for Kyuushuu being Hoenn ... hey! I can see it. And it's a lot better than the Shikoku argument, I agree! But the problem is ... (a) you have to rotate the game 90° clockwise (or the real-life map 90° CCW) to get them to line up, and (b) it's pretty atrocious and insulting if Pacifidlog Town is supposed to be the Okinawan island chain. D:
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Old 06-11-2009, 05:06 PM   #272
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Espeon was his last pokemon, in place of Tauros. I remember because I beat him on crystal (which, amazingly, still works) again just last week.

Battle frontiers work better than extra regions because by the time you reach the E4, you've got a full team. Most people I know who played GSC had a finalised team by Claire. That pretty much gets rid of the point of being able to catch new pokemon in the new region which couldn't be caught in region one. In GSC, there was basically nothing going on plotwise in Kanto either. It's only purpose was to provide an extra set of challenges in the form of the gym leaders; something that a battle frontier provides better. If they're going to have two or more regions in HGSS, either put some plot in it (like the Sevii Islands had, for example) or just ditch it for a battle frontier. The lack of motivation to catch new pokemon is a second regions true achilles heel.

In short, if they provide a second or third region in HGSS, I'll play through them once just to see what they're like. If they're not significantly improved from Kanto in GSC, then on future playthroughs I'll stop upon completing Johto.
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Old 06-11-2009, 06:09 PM   #273
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Espeon was his last pokemon, in place of Tauros. I remember because I beat him on crystal (which, amazingly, still works) again just last week.

Battle frontiers work better than extra regions because by the time you reach the E4, you've got a full team. Most people I know who played GSC had a finalised team by Claire. That pretty much gets rid of the point of being able to catch new pokemon in the new region which couldn't be caught in region one. In GSC, there was basically nothing going on plotwise in Kanto either. It's only purpose was to provide an extra set of challenges in the form of the gym leaders; something that a battle frontier provides better. If they're going to have two or more regions in HGSS, either put some plot in it (like the Sevii Islands had, for example) or just ditch it for a battle frontier. The lack of motivation to catch new pokemon is a second regions true achilles heel.

In short, if they provide a second or third region in HGSS, I'll play through them once just to see what they're like. If they're not significantly improved from Kanto in GSC, then on future playthroughs I'll stop upon completing Johto.
And this is where we disagree.

Training wise and competitive wise, adding a third region would be a bad move, in the eyes of the competitive players. Me, I like exploring in Pokemon. One of the things thar made GS the best era, imo, is the addition of Kanto. Adding another region would rock. Besides, we need to remember that the DSi no longer has a GBA slot, and as such the developers said every Pokemon will be available in this game set. I don't see some 500+ Pokemon residing in two areas only. It only seems logical (in that aspect, anyway), to include Hoenn.

Also, I'm a fan of the battle frontier challenges, but I'm not a fan of the frontiers themselves. And that ideas been used onw too many times.

Also, I just thought. Why not add Hoenn as a bonus unlockable? It's unlocked after the core part of the game (Johto/Kanto) is beaten. Hoenn is essentially a chance to have a second adventure and to capture R/S pokemon. Or, all Hoenn gyms could be set at all Pokemon level 50 rules. Or we could just go with Vran's suggestion.

Meh, I should stop trying to get my hopes up.
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Old 06-11-2009, 06:12 PM   #274
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Silly people. If they add Hoenn to these games they risk making less money from Pokémon Rainy Sapphire and Sunny Ruby in a few years, and that would never do.
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Old 06-12-2009, 12:43 AM   #275
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And this is where we disagree.

Training wise and competitive wise, adding a third region would be a bad move, in the eyes of the competitive players. Me, I like exploring in Pokemon. One of the things thar made GS the best era, imo, is the addition of Kanto. Adding another region would rock. Besides, we need to remember that the DSi no longer has a GBA slot, and as such the developers said every Pokemon will be available in this game set. I don't see some 500+ Pokemon residing in two areas only. It only seems logical (in that aspect, anyway), to include Hoenn.

Also, I'm a fan of the battle frontier challenges, but I'm not a fan of the frontiers themselves. And that ideas been used onw too many times.

Also, I just thought. Why not add Hoenn as a bonus unlockable? It's unlocked after the core part of the game (Johto/Kanto) is beaten. Hoenn is essentially a chance to have a second adventure and to capture R/S pokemon. Or, all Hoenn gyms could be set at all Pokemon level 50 rules. Or we could just go with Vran's suggestion.

Meh, I should stop trying to get my hopes up.
Battle frontier challenges were great, but I must agree that neither myself was big on the frontiers. I think if they ad that it wouldn't make to big on the market. Meh, just an opinion. New to the poke-board ^_^
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