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Old 10-04-2012, 06:40 PM   #1051
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I've expressed this opinion in various ways a few times before but now with another influx of hate-base from the Kickstarter making news and a few people I know trying to read HS and whatnot, I think it's a good time for me to flesh out my opinions once again.

Here's my thesis: It's okay to not like Homestuck or not want to read it, but don't discourage other people from doing it or knocking it as a whole because you don't like the first portion of it, but on the other hand, don't push people into it.

Spoiler: show
Now, I'm not saying that you're doing that, Talon (in fact, you're being more than gracious, I think), but I feel like a lot of people do this undeservedly. People either see how the fandom acts and associate that with the work as a whole, or people try to read it, find it not to their liking and quickly abandon it, judging it as a whole to be bad/unsatisfactory/etc. That is very much judging a book by its cover, but in this particular case, the cover happens to be huge and detailed and the book is gigantic.

I feel like there are a lot of people who could very much like Homestuck but they find themselves discouraged or biased against it simply based on other people's hasty conclusions. I'm not saying you shouldn't have a negative opinion, but dismissing it outright because you didn't like the first Act is unfair to both the work and potential readers.

The way I see it, it's like watching the first ten minutes of a movie or reading the first chapter of a book and calling it bad just because you didn't like its introductory chapters. That seems a little unfair, doesn't it? A lot of great novels and movies often have slow or awkward introductions as the author struggles to pull you into their universe and their story. Homestuck is much the same way, and, being such a complex narrative, there's a lot of things that need to be introduced, making the start up unfortunately slow. The first Act is often the most criticized portion of Homestuck because it is, admittedly, pretty boring and cumbersome. I'll admit: if it wasn't for the fact that I had been following MSPA since the early days of Problem Sleuth, I probably wouldn't have stuck with Homestuck. But at the same time, the first Act is basically the first ten minutes of the movie - it's only about 100 pages of a 5000 page long and growing narrative. Writing it off that early seems a little hasty to me.

That said, it is a very, very, very long story. If you don't feel like or are unable to invest the time in it, don't. You're really not going to like it if it feels like work. I feel like a lot of people force themselves to read it and then end up hating it because they feel pressure to read it. It's suppose to be a fun, comedic and lighthearted (generally) adventure at the end of the day (despite all the death and drama and whatnot). If you look at it as homework, you're just not going to enjoy it as much as you could.

Going back to the criticisms, Homestuck is very much not perfect. It is very long, the humor can be kind of inaccessible (especially if you're not familiar with Hussie's other work), and there is a lot of reading, much of which isn't all that plot relevant or super interesting. Early portions of Homestuck sort of suffer from growing pains of sorts, as Hussie, hot off the heels of another story, Problem Sleuth (which, by the way, is vastly underrated and is just as good as Homestuck, imo, though for different reasons), had to ease his base into the new story telling format, making it a bit of a mish-mash of traditional storytelling and the game-based story he had developed the year before Homestuck began. Homestuck takes a while to find its groove, though once it does, it really rocks it. Homestuck is very self-referential and a lot of the humor (and the genius) is based off these parallels and references, which requires you to be aware of the story so far, which is why I think a lot of people abandon the story quickly, because a lot of arbitrary-seeming events happen in quick succession so Hussie can build a stock of reference for later story-telling purposes.

But I digress.

I think for the many fans here who are reading this the last part of my thesis might be a little confusing. Homestuck fans, for good reason I think, find the need to tell everyone about Homestuck. But I think that your zeal is a little... overwhelming. I think a lot of what turns people off to Homestuck is unmet expectations. If you rant and rave about the trolls and the god tiers and the worlds and all the other stuff they won't see head or tails of until 3000 pages into the narrative, they're going to get discouraged. Feel free to sell Homestuck, but don't give unrealistic expectations. Let them discover it on their own. I went into Homestuck with absolutely no idea what it would be and part of that is why it was so great. The surprises and twists of the various reveals made by Hussie made it a really fun adventure and I feel like archive readers can often lose a lot of that fun and excitement.


tl;dr:
BORKED

And Homestucks, give other fans an opportunity to discover it for themselves.

This makes me want to write a Guide for Reading Homestuck. Maybe I'll do that.
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Old 10-04-2012, 09:40 PM   #1052
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Originally Posted by deoxys View Post
Yeah but let's face it why should I donate by this point if I'm not going to get anything in return

I mean I know how that sounds but yeah :/
http://whatpumpkin.com/kickstarter.html

dude of course you can still get the rewards
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:27 AM   #1053
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Guys... Grey DeLisle (Azula on ATLA, Vicky on Fairly Odd Parents) just sent this out.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:41 AM   #1054
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Here's some pretty art for Talon. Sure it starts out looking lame but it get's better.





And that Grey reading of Vriska.. my god. Azula makes a perfect Vriska. Haha.
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:55 AM   #1055
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Also this requires posting since Grey started reading Homestuck.


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Old 10-05-2012, 02:46 PM   #1056
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Emperor View Post
Here's some pretty art for Talon. Sure it starts out looking lame but it get's better.





And that Grey reading of Vriska.. my god. Azula makes a perfect Vriska. Haha.
c'mon kuno you could've picked a more impressive panel than that

http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005653

not like this proves anything about the story or means that talon will or should suddenly enjoy it though, the art is all about style and how hussies chooses to mix the style up and it's just not talon's thing
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Old 10-05-2012, 03:00 PM   #1057
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I was going to adjunct this to my other post but I got busy.

I don't really see why the art is something to complain about. I mean, yeah the stuff used in the first part is a bit rough, but that's part of the appeal, number one, and since when did a comic have to have good art to be good? A ton of webcomics and traditional comics that are considered to be good often have lackluster art. Not to mention, Hussie uses art style as a literary tool of sorts, using it for emphasis in some places and for contrast in others.

Again, I feel like the art question is really judging a book by its cover and frankly, kinda nitpicky. The art isn't like eye-bleedingly bad. It's a little rough in places and can be repetitive... but what did you expect from a website named "MS Paint Adventures"?
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Old 10-05-2012, 03:03 PM   #1058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerichi View Post
I was going to adjunct this to my other post but I got busy.

I don't really see why the art is something to complain about. I mean, yeah the stuff used in the first part is a bit rough, but that's part of the appeal, number one, and since when did a comic have to have good art to be good? A ton of webcomics and traditional comics that are considered to be good often have lackluster art. Not to mention, Hussie uses art style as a literary tool of sorts, using it for emphasis in some places and for contrast in others.

Again, I feel like the art question is really judging a book by its cover and frankly, kinda nitpicky. The art isn't like eye-bleedingly bad. It's a little rough in places and can be repetitive... but what did you expect from a website named "MS Paint Adventures"?
mmm jeri gets it right
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Old 10-05-2012, 03:48 PM   #1059
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I posted that one cause Deo told me to.

Really good points Jeri, but even if you cross of art, Talon will find other things to hate.
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Old 10-05-2012, 03:50 PM   #1060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerichi View Post
I was going to adjunct this to my other post but I got busy.

I don't really see why the art is something to complain about. I mean, yeah the stuff used in the first part is a bit rough, but that's part of the appeal, number one, and since when did a comic have to have good art to be good? A ton of webcomics and traditional comics that are considered to be good often have lackluster art. Not to mention, Hussie uses art style as a literary tool of sorts, using it for emphasis in some places and for contrast in others.

Again, I feel like the art question is really judging a book by its cover and frankly, kinda nitpicky. The art isn't like eye-bleedingly bad. It's a little rough in places and can be repetitive... but what did you expect from a website named "MS Paint Adventures"?
I will simply say two things to this. First, I do not like crude artwork, which I believe Homestuck's artwork to be. Second, while it's true that you can couple a great story with poor art, there are so many products in this life which already exist and which have both amazing art and an amazing story that I would be remiss to table them in favor of reading Homestuck first.

Furthermore, I don't think that Homestuck is enjoyed by those who enjoy it because they are open minded about artwork (though they well may be! but it's neither here nor there!). That is to say, I don't think most HS fans are people who believe the art to be repulsive. In my experience, with fans like Kuno plugging Homestuck artwork in bids to get me to check the series out and fans like Copy not just celebrating the artwork but emulating it in their own developing art styles, it has been my observation-theory that 90%+ of the people who enjoy Homestuck, rather than enjoying it in spite of the art, enjoy it at least in part because of of the art. That is to say, they are fans of both the artwork and the story. So when they turn around and say "Well just because you don't like the artwork doesn't mean you should give up! ", it makes me laugh a very dry, cynical laugh the exact same way I would if I were in a room that had the overwhelming stench of decaying corpses and I was told "Just because you don't like the smell of the room doesn't mean you can't enjoy the music playing on the overhead speakers! " by a Beethoven fan who just so happens to have permanently lost his sense of smell. It's one of those "Easy for YOU to say " eye roll-inducing moments in life. Yes, there is an unarguable truth in the rhetoric that the art's quality, be it good or bad, should have no bearing on the story's quality. But in my opinion there is just as inarguable a truth in the rhetoric that bad art does irreparably damage the overall product, the overall experience.

For me personally -- and I'm not asking you to be the same as me, I'm just asking that you respectfully understand that such differences in taste exist with the subjective matter that is art -- the art, writing, and humor in Homestuck has proven to be prohibitively bad. Like I said, I never even met someone named Rose, let alone got to the other bits that author felt safe to spoil me on, never mind get to Act 2, 3, 4, 5, and so on.

To me, these are examples of high quality artwork: this, this, this, this, or this. None of these I would save to my own collection. None of these appeal to me personally enough that I say "Wow, holy shit, MUST SAVE." Everyone has their own preferences when it comes to art. But my vision is not so clouded that I cannot assess these objectively and say, "These are masterfully done works." I think it would be a great insult to any of these artists to lump anyone on UPN in with them (at present time; that is not to say that any of our wonderful artists cannot one day match or even surpass these artists in ability). And I think it would be a great insult to pretty much each and every last one of UPN's artists to lump John Egbert in with them.

As for the other "not Act 1" artwork that has been passed around by Kuno, Copy, and several other fans of Homestuck to me, all I can say is, as you brought up before:
  • The style does not appeal to me personally. Art is subjective.
  • It is okay to not like things.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:23 PM   #1061
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You are exactly going against every point I outlined in the post I just made.

Seriously.

You are judging a book by its cover. And while I'm not saying you have to read all of Homestuck, making such an overarching snap judgement when you admit to not having met one of the major and most important characters yet (who I think you might actually like!) is kind of ridiculous.

Like okay, whatever, you don't like the art. But you seem to be ignoring what I just said about how A) the art improves and gets as "high-quality" in many, many portions later on and that B) the art is the way it is for a reason, not because Hussie is a shitty artist.

Your unwillingness to play along makes me sorta glad that you've given up on it, because I feel like even if you did get through it, you'd get so hung up on a lot of the nitpicky details that you'd be incapable of enjoying it.

tl;dr:
>It is okay to not like things.

But don't be a dick about it.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:34 PM   #1062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerichi View Post
Your unwillingness to play along makes me sorta glad that you've given up on it, because I feel like even if you did get through it, you'd get so hung up on a lot of the nitpicky details that you'd be incapable of enjoying it.
There's a name for this but I'll be damned if I know the technical term. When somebody delights in the fact that someone they dislike dislikes the thing that they like. When somebody feels superior to others because they "get it" while the others fail to understand. It's ugly and it's immature. If you don't want me to like Homestuck, fine. If you want me to like it, fine. If I like it but am nitpicky, fine. If I like and am not nitpicky, fine. Everything should be fine but you're clearly demonstrating that, contrary to your beautiful "let's all get along ^-^" writing from before, you have personally drawn a line in the sand between those who like Homestuck (and thus "get it") and those who do not (and thus are Philistines who wouldn't know good art if it came up and bit them in the ass).

You claim that I completely missed the point of your post but I think this is just your personal discontent talking. I not only got the point of your post but I was specifically addressing this one line:
Quote:
I mean, yeah the stuff used in the first part is a bit rough, but that's part of the appeal
I was politely (emphasis: politely) explaining to you that to me that rough art is not appealing. I believe I said as much:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
First, I do not like crude artwork, which I believe Homestuck's artwork to be.
Say what you will about the rest of what I wrote but it was clarification of the very top two points I listed out for you, the above being one of them. I say the art is crude. You say the art is crude. I say the crude art is unappealing. You say the crude art is part of the appeal. And so I brought to your attention that we had this fundamental difference of opinion regarding crude art. That is all. I wasn't being nitpicky or a dick. You're the one being a dick now calling me a dick for giving you a thoughtful, civil reply.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:38 PM   #1063
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Emperor View Post
Also this requires posting since Grey started reading Homestuck.


Just popping in to say these animations are admittedly pretty cool. Were they done in Paint?

Also HS suddenly reminds me of The Clefairy Show. o.O; Apparently the story turned somewhat serious and switched to MS Paint drawings after I stopped reading. ^^; Seems to have died soon after though. The author also published my fancomics on his site without permission, but whatev. He stole some sprites without giving credit anyway like Ganondorf, despite being an excellent spriter himself. >.>;

P.S. I think I got up to Act III over the summer. Still confused as hell. Will probably continue at some point, though like Jeri said I'd rather not feel pressured to do so.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:52 PM   #1064
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>Just popping in to say these animations are admittedly pretty cool. Were they done in Paint?

Probably not; looks like Vector painting to me. Possibly Flash.

Quote:
There's a name for this but I'll be damned if I know the technical term. When somebody delights in the fact that someone they dislike dislikes the thing that they like. When somebody feels superior to others because they "get it" while the others fail to understand. It's ugly and it's immature. If you don't want me to like Homestuck, fine. If you want me to like it, fine. If I like it but am nitpicky, fine. If I like and am not nitpicky, fine. Everything should be fine but you're clearly demonstrating that, contrary to your beautiful "let's all get along ^-^" writing from before, you have personally drawn a line in the sand between those who like Homestuck (and thus "get it") and those who do not (and thus are Philistines who wouldn't know good art if it came up and bit them in the ass).
Wow, no. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

I'm saying that you can be pretentious and that I'd rather not have you pick at every detail of something I enjoy, because I find it to be really obnoxious and obliquely condescending. If you're not willing to take something for what it is instead of casting down your uppity, intellectual judgement upon it, I'd be a lot more enthusiastic about you reading it. But if you're going to act so dismissive and pedantic, then I'd much rather have you just not be a part of it at all.

This has nothing to do with in-groups and holier-than-thou. This has to do with how you're blatantly overreacting and ignoring what I'm trying to tell you.

Quote:
Say what you will about the rest of what I wrote but it was clarification of the very top two points I listed out for you, the above being one of them. I say the art is crude. You say the art is crude. I say the crude art is unappealing. You say the crude art is part of the appeal. And so I brought to your attention that we had this fundamental difference of opinion regarding crude art. That is all. I wasn't being nitpicky or a dick. You're the one being a dick now calling me a dick for giving you a thoughtful, civil reply.
You continue to ignore the fact that you are still making a sweeping generalization about a work you've read less than 10% of. If you don't like the art, okay, whatever. But it makes no sense to dismiss the whole thing based off of a few pages out of a few thousand.

I can't make you like the art but I feel like you're missing the reason it is crude and riding the author's choice to use such artwork and making it into a bigger issue than it actually is.

If you would take the time to at least consider the things we've pointed out to you and stop making so many snap judgements, this wouldn't be a problem. I couldn't give ten shits about you not caring for Homestuck if I wanted to, nor do I think you're a "lesser" person or in an out-group because you haven't read the whole thing, but you sure are being an ass now, even if you are doing so "politely".
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:57 PM   #1065
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Judging by how much he said he read, he read .004% of Homestuck.

If he was watching a 2 hour movie, he gave it 28.8 seconds before giving up on the whole thing and writing paragraphs about how it's not for him.
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:53 PM   #1066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
I will simply say two things to this. First, I do not like crude artwork, which I believe Homestuck's artwork to be.
Spoiler: show














Quote:
Second, while it's true that you can couple a great story with poor art, there are so many products in this life which already exist and which have both amazing art and an amazing story that I would be remiss to table them in favor of reading Homestuck first.

Furthermore, I don't think that Homestuck is enjoyed by those who enjoy it because they are open minded about artwork (though they well may be! but it's neither here nor there!). That is to say, I don't think most HS fans are people who believe the art to be repulsive. In my experience, with fans like Kuno plugging Homestuck artwork in bids to get me to check the series out and fans like Copy not just celebrating the artwork but emulating it in their own developing art styles, it has been my observation-theory that 90%+ of the people who enjoy Homestuck, rather than enjoying it in spite of the art, enjoy it at least in part because of of the art. That is to say, they are fans of both the artwork and the story. So when they turn around and say "Well just because you don't like the artwork doesn't mean you should give up! ", it makes me laugh a very dry, cynical laugh the exact same way I would if I were in a room that had the overwhelming stench of decaying corpses and I was told "Just because you don't like the smell of the room doesn't mean you can't enjoy the music playing on the overhead speakers! " by a Beethoven fan who just so happens to have permanently lost his sense of smell. It's one of those "Easy for YOU to say " eye roll-inducing moments in life. Yes, there is an unarguable truth in the rhetoric that the art's quality, be it good or bad, should have no bearing on the story's quality. But in my opinion there is just as inarguable a truth in the rhetoric that bad art does irreparably damage the overall product, the overall experience.




Quote:
For me personally -- and I'm not asking you to be the same as me, I'm just asking that you respectfully understand that such differences in taste exist with the subjective matter that is art -- the art, writing, and humor in Homestuck has proven to be prohibitively bad. Like I said, I never even met someone named Rose, let alone got to the other bits that author felt safe to spoil me on, never mind get to Act 2, 3, 4, 5, and so on.
BORKED

Quote:
To me, these are examples of high quality artwork: this, this, this, this, or this. None of these I would save to my own collection. None of these appeal to me personally enough that I say "Wow, holy shit, MUST SAVE." Everyone has their own preferences when it comes to art. But my vision is not so clouded that I cannot assess these objectively and say, "These are masterfully done works." I think it would be a great insult to any of these artists to lump anyone on UPN in with them (at present time; that is not to say that any of our wonderful artists cannot one day match or even surpass these artists in ability). And I think it would be a great insult to pretty much each and every last one of UPN's artists to lump John Egbert in with them.


Quote:
As for the other "not Act 1" artwork that has been passed around by Kuno, Copy, and several other fans of Homestuck to me, all I can say is, as you brought up before:
  • The style does not appeal to me personally. Art is subjective.
  • It is okay to not like things.
The thing is here you go on incredibly long defensive rants about why and how much you dislike something you quite honestly know nothing about. You opened the first few pages of Act I and said "Wow, a poop joke. Wow, this horrible art. Wow, this terrible writing. I'm out."

You basically watched the title sequence of a movie and expected the rest of the movie to emulate that sequence to a tee. Good job!

Last edited by deoxys; 10-05-2012 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:49 PM   #1067
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So I've been thinking about making a Homestuck New Readers FAQ. Anyone want to help me come up with some questions? I have this so far:

Spoiler: show
What is Homestuck?
Why is the art so ugly?
Do I have to read all the pesterlogs?
Who/What are the trolls?
What's the deal with the sylladex? What's with all these game references and mechanics?
Ugh! The humor in this sucks! Why does anyone like this?
What's with some of these "jokes"? They're a little weird.
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:15 PM   #1068
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I got one:

Spoiler: show
What the fuck is going on?
What the fuck is the point of this?


Not even joking, having a way to explain these would be good.
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:15 PM   #1069
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I'll add those but it'll be a bit of a doozy to explain.

Maybe I'll just link to resources. xd
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:20 PM   #1070
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Well I'd answer with

Spoiler: show
It'll get answered/explained eventually. For every answer you get there's at least 3 new questions so.. that's just how it is.
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:03 PM   #1071
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Okay!

So I set up a tumblr account and drafted up an initial FAQ. I tried to keep it as spoiler-free as I possibly could. Would ya'll mind reading it over for errors and inaccuracies as well as suggesting anything or any questions I might add?

Thanks a ton~

Spoiler: show
A young boy/girl stands/sits/reclines in his/her bedroom. It just so happens, today, [insert date here], is the day they decided to begin reading a strange webcomic, Homestuck. Though it was four years ago Homestuck was given life, it is only today the reader will begin to read!
What is the nature of such a comic?
>Begin reading.

So, you want to read Homestuck? May I be the first to welcome you to the adventure that is Homestuck and its community.

Be advised, though: reading Homestuck is not an easy task. But don't let that discourage you! It is very much worth it, as any fan of Homestuck will attest.

Full FAQ and some additional information under the cut.


Before I start the FAQ portion, however, I'd like to outline a few facts about Homestuck. Keep in mind, these aren't meant to discourage you; they're simply things to be aware of.

Number One: Homestuck is long.
Homestuck is, at the publication of this FAQ, nearly 8000 pages long. Mind you, some pages are one image panel with no text, some pages are three image panels with a paragraph of text, some are seven-screen-long chatlogs, some are 17-minute long Flash movies, some are rather involved interactive games. Between those two facts, it's really hard to gauge exactly how long the comic is, but needless to say, starting from the beginning, it will take you a while to get up-to-date. Expect to spend a few hours at a time reading it over many, many sessions before you reach the current page.


Number Two: Homestuck is complicated.
Know what a Captchalogue is? Ever read about a stable time loop? Heard of a moirail before? Familiar with the concept of circumstantial simultaneity?

Probably not.

By the time you're current with Homestuck, you'll know what all this is and more, presumably, but you'll have a lot more questions.
That's part of the fun of Homestuck. The narrative is a puzzle: you have all the pieces and it's up to you to fit them together. It does require some thought and often a little bit of research, but there's a friendly community of equally-confused readers who are more than willing to help you sort it all out, and resources like the MSPA Wiki (which I will be plugging more than a few times in this FAQ) to help fill you in on details you might have missed.

This, of course, doesn't even mention other complicated, plot-important concepts like troll romance, alchemization, the hemospectrum, the Scratch, aspects and classes, ectobiology, ancestors, First Guardians, the Felt, etc... but it's all explained with time and at a reasonable pace. So if you don't understand something, don't worry, it'll all be cleared up after a little while.


Number Three: Homestuck is ruthlessly lighthearted.
Homestuck is, believe it or not, intended to be a comedy. One of the ways to describe it is a catch-all genre parody. Homestuck pokes fun at just about every aspect of pop culture, modern media, the Internet, video games, movies, almost anything. It even makes fun of itself on more than one occasion. If you come into it expecting some serious story filled with action and fighting and intense scenes, you'll be disappointed for the first few Acts. You'll get your kick eventually, but you'll have to wade through page upon page of kids and their goofy antics.
That said, there's plenty of drama, tragedy, intrigue, and techniques of serious literary merit embedded in this lighthearted romp through the multiverse. But don't think you're getting into something serious, because you really, really aren't.


Number ???: It gets better.
I don't really want to call this number four, because A) I like having three points and B) I don't really want to have this be a major point of my thesis. I feel like this is the go-to line for every fan of Homestuck when they try to convince their bewildered friends to tackle this Internet behemoth. It's frankly gotten trite and is often not enough incentive for people to continue reading past the first few Acts.

Something I think a lot of archive readers fail to realize, though, is that Homestuck was released in small chunks over the course of now nearly 4 years. As such, many things are fleshed out over a long stretch of pages and quite slowly. Not to mention, it's changed a ton since its inception in 2009 and its current incarnation today. It took some time for Homestuck to find its groove. Once you hit that groove-threshold, though, it starts to pay off. Because Homestuck is so long and complicated, it requires a lot of patience. If you don't have the patience to get through it, it's probably not for you.

But enough of that, on to the questions!


What is Homestuck?

Homestuck is an interactive multi-media hypertextual webcomic written and produced almost entirely by Andrew Hussie (though music and some supplementary art are done by other contributors). It is the fourth story to be posted on the MS Paint Adventures website, following the incomplete Jailbreak and Bard Quest, and Hussie's last completed quest, Problem Sleuth. It was started on

Blah Blah Forgot To Finish This Remind Me To Rip This From Somewhere

Why is the art so ugly?

Well, the website is called MS Paint Adventures.

To be honest, I can't really explain the reason Hussie chose the rough, aliased sprite-y style he did. It has a lot to do with the video game-realted and Internet-influenced aspects of the story. It also is pretty heavily influenced by the style from Problem Sleuth, though it quickly grows to have its own unique flair. Homestuck heavily is influenced by, among many other things, retro games like Earthbound, and his style very much reflects that.

Hussie's actually a pretty damn good artist and isn't afraid to show it. The style is a lot cruder at first because he's going for style, not to impress.
If the art is a turn-off to you, all I can really tell you is try to not let it be. It's a relatively minor aspect of the narrative. Hussie has his reasons and you'll learn to appreciate it as time goes on.

Not to mention, it gets better. A lot better.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...ghtandrain.PNG
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...er-d2ycu7g.png
http://images.wikia.com/mspaintadven...8/8e/05330.gif
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...ylW1qkafxs.png
http://www.mspaintadventures.com/sto.../hs2/03750.gif

Do I have to read all the pesterlogs?

There are two schools of thought on this. Some people say yes, due to the important plot details within. I say scan 'em.
Personally, I got through Homestuck just fine scanning most pesterlogs, especially the longer ones. But a lot of Homestuck fans will tell you not to do this and will advise you to read every detail of every log.

They do have good reason for this. A lot of the important plot details, characterization and thematic elements are exposed via pesterlogs. They're effectively dialogue, and should be treated as such. Not to mention, Hussie has a penchant for echoing a lot of elements of old pesterlogs in more recent ones and you can lose a lot of the impact of that if you only skim. If you find it too much to handle, though, I'd advise just trying to hit all the important parts and going back and re-reading key logs for more details on characters or events if you get a little lost. The MSPA Wiki (careful, it is spoilerrific!) offers a full list of pesterlogs for all characters, including who took part in them and their relative time in the story, so if you're ever in need of some brushing up, you can check there.

What's the deal with the sylladex? What's with all these game references and mechanics?

Like I said before, Homestuck is a genre parody of, among a lot of other things, video games. As such, like the art, Hussie puts a lot of effort into making references and jokes relating to video games, particularly weirdly arbitrary systems of item management and unrealistic battle schemes.
It also is heavily influenced by older, SNES-era video games, particularly Earthbound. Though I won't spoil anything, I will say there are some fun interactive parts later in the comic that are Earthbound-esque flash games which make that connection clear.

Ugh! The humor in this sucks! Why does anyone like this?

What's with some of these "jokes"? They're a little weird.


I'll be the first to admit, Hussie's sense of humor is a little strange. He's both painfully cerebral and totally childish at the same time, which results in a very odd mix. If you find yourself above puns, cheesy jokes and the occasional crude wisecrack here and there (though, don't worry, it's all pretty PG), then Homestuck is probably not for you. If you're familiar with some of Hussie's other works (particularly Problem Sleuth), then some of the humor will probably be a little more accessible. Otherwise, just try to go with it. The humor, like many things, evolves as time goes on, and turns from a slew of pop culture references and verbose ramblings to a lot of witty self-references and interesting fits of irony (though, to be fair, the first two things never really go away).

What the fuck is going on? What the fuck is the point of this?

I can't really answer any of those questions. Like I said before, Homestuck is complicated. Chances are, you'll find out eventually, but it might be 2000 pages later and only in a vague reference. There's a lot of things that even those of us who are current on the comic still don't know, but Hussie doesn't hide his cards for long. He plays each and every one at just the right moment, so if you don't know something yet, there's probably a good reason you don't.

If the curiosity is killing you, though, you can always spoil certain aspects for yourself like the naughty cat you are by going to places like the MSPA Wiki. Be careful, though, the Wiki has all the information on the story up to the current point, so you may learn a little more than you want to know! I take no responsibility for any curiosity-related deaths that might occur. :33

Does X mean something?
Probably. Homestuck is a fairly tightly-written narrative, and as such, pretty much every detail is either intended to have some significance or may potentially get some later. Lots and lots of crazy fan theories have been spawned about seemingly arbitrary things, and many have turned out to be true. Keep an eye out for things that seem to be unimportant that are given strangely specific attention, even if it's only for a moment. If the object or idea itself doesn't become an important plot point, something related to it likely will.

Numbers, in particular, are subject to this. There's a handful of arc numbers in this series (413, 612, 1025, 1111, 2422) which will appear throughout the story. Something that's often lost on archive readers is that they all correspond to significant real-world dates that represent a significant shift in the story. 413, for example, corresponds to the day the "stable release" of Homestuck was published, April 13, 2009. The others have similar significance, but I'll let you figure those out on your own. ;D

Who does all this music? Who makes the flashes? Who does the art? Who writes all this?
Long story short, Hussie does all of this, except the music, some of the games (at least the technical stuff) and some art here and there.
Hussie is Homestuck's sole writer. No one else know details about the story that haven't been published in the comic aside from him (and probably a few other people sworn to secrecy, lest their lips be sewn shut). He also does about 90% of the art, though some of the art in the flashes and on certain interactive portions are done by others, often community members.

None of the music is done by Hussie, but it is all done by people who work in close collaboration with the man himself, all on the music team. Toby "Radiation" Fox is probably one of the most notable members of the team, having composed a huge number of notable pieces for the comic. All the details about the music (and a page where you can purchase tracks!) can be found here.

What's shipping? Why is it important?
Shipping is defined by Wikipedia as "the belief that two characters, fictional or non-fictional, are in an intimate relationship, have romantic feelings that could potentially lead to a relationship, or have another form of less intimate relationship, which may involve platonic friendship, or even violence." In short, it's when fans support certain characters hooking up on various levels and then do things like write fanfiction and draw art.
In Homestuck, though, shipping is a lot more complicated than that and acts as a pretty important plot point.

Without spoiling too much, shipping in Homestuck is more than just love - it can refer to hate-based relationships, friendships or two mutually-frustrated parties and their mediator, as well as the traditional sense of love.

The reason why it's important is kind of hard to say. It plays a pretty important role in understanding the interactions and dynamics between characters and a lot of their motivations. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure what it means myself, but Hussie has put in the effort to explain it and demonstrate it quite a bit, so you'll pick up on it eventually.

In the meantime, though, do enjoy all the fun stuff the fandom has to offer! I'm not a huge shipper myself, but I do enjoy the occasional shipfic or shippy piece of fanart.

What are god/dog/cod tiers?

Again, this is a story element that spoils a lot of things, so I'm not going to go into much detail.

Basically, they're like an "ultimate form" in a video game, where you reach levels where you can access cool powers and other things. It's how players of the game become "fully realized" and can do some pretty cool stuff based off their innate abilities. This is all based on aspect and class, which are two things that I can't even really explain to you with my (relatively) extensive knowledge of the mechanics of the game. It's another thing you'll pick up with time.

The term, by the way, is God Tier. Dog and Cod are puns based on some, um, interesting things that occur later on.

Oh, and, with God Tiers, you get a pretty kickass set of PJs, which explains why half the pictures have the characters running around in colorful jammies.

Who/What are the trolls?

To be honest, I don't really want to tell you. I think that you're better off discovering for yourself; it's more fun that way.

But okay, fine, if you insist.

Warning: Spoilers!!!!!!!!

Trolls are non-human characters that interact with the main four kids over the course of the narrative. They, too played a version of the game the kids are playing, though things didn't go quite as planned. You'll meet them progressively over the first four acts and then get to know all about them in Act V. Like I said, I'd suggest holding out on doing too much research on them, because a lot of fanon has skewed their characters, IMO, and honestly, trying to figure them out before you get to that part of the story will likely just confuse you more. And with Homestuck, it's really best to it one thing at a time.


What's with all this weird typing? Ugh, I can't decipher any of it! It's so annoying!

All the weird typing isn't meant to piss you off and make Homestuck inaccesable. It does actually serve a purpose, albiet a bit of a hard to understand one.

For one, it helps you to distinguish between characters at a glance. In combination with the colors used, it helps to break up some of these lenghty text blocks where there's nothing but a little two letter combination to help tell you who's who. Now, admittedly, it isn't the best or most effective way of doing this, but it does serve a secondary purpose.

All these strange typing methods, called "quirks", also serve a symbolic purpose, representing something about the character's personality or referencing an internal symbol within the work. To give a simple example, John's writing is very simple, lacking caps and often omitting certain punctuation. This gives his typing a childish feel, reflecting an innocent and child-like personality. Similarly, Rose's typing is very proper and borders on purple prose, reflecting her very proper and forward personality.

Some of the more involved quirks don't make their raison d'ętre known for a loooong time, but they'll all be revealed with time.
There are a few guides, tools and sites that can help you decipher some of the more complex quirks. Just do a quick scan around the forums or on the wiki and you'll be fluent in troll type in no time.

And don't worry. You'll get used to reading blocks of caps with 1's, 4's, and 2's interspersed after only a few pages.

Do I need to read Hussie's prior works to get Homestuck?

Not really, no. Though many elements of Homestuck have their root in his earlier works, especially Problem Sleuth, they are totally stand-alone stories and you don't really need to read or even have an understanding of anything prior to appreciate Homestuck. That being said, there are a lot of jokes, stylistic references, and mechanics that originate from Problem Sleuth (a handful of which even coming from his two unfinished adventures), so reading his earlier work does add another fun layer to Homestuck.

That being said, I'd definitely recommend giving Problem Sleuth a read. It's really fun and much less complicated than Homestuck, not to mention almost four times shorter (and the gap is actively growing!). Unlike Homestuck, it can be read in a few relatively short sittings, and is a lot less reading and easier to understand. I personally think that it's a great introduction to how Hussie does things and it's a good way to understand some of the strange humor he relies on in the early pages of Homestuck.

Oh, and be sure to read Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff as you go along. It's a meta-comic that runs along side Homestuck and is referenced here and there in the main story. It's, well, awful and hideous, but you'll probably be lost if you forgo it totally. It all Make Sense In Context, trust me.


Also, if I could get some suggestions (preferably with links) to non-spoilery examples of good HS art, I'd really like that.

EDIT: Forgot a question, adding it in.
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Last edited by Jerichi; 10-05-2012 at 11:41 PM.
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:11 PM   #1072
Copygoo
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god you guys are going about this the WHOLE FUCKIN WRONG WAY

who gives a shit if talon doesn't like homestuck omg he's not fuckin obligated to read past more than a few pages if he doesn't want to and he has every right to not like the art holy shit

THE ISSUE WITH HIS POSTS IS he doesn't have to be so... matter-of-fact about everything he thinks is wrong with it. i mean he clearly is stating them as his opinion that may be different than someone else's opinion it's just not coming across as that way 90% of the time

idk talon i don't have any problems with you i just think you aren't really good at expressing yourself online and sometimes you come across as a little condescending
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:52 PM   #1073
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Hello there! I'm still currently trying to catch up to you guys, but I've also been a bit busy with work... Though Cascade was especially brilliant...
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--------
It would be best to confess as early as possible, to avoid any excess pain through excess attachment. Make sure you express yourself clearly, and no matter what the outcome may be, treat the other as you may treat a friend, applicable at such a stage in life.

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Old 10-05-2012, 11:55 PM   #1074
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Wow, you're a ways behind. xd Good luck though, good stuff is coming your way.
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Old 10-06-2012, 02:41 AM   #1075
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To me, the fact that HS is really long is a good thing. Not wanted to get into something because it's too long always struck me as odd.

If Game of Thrones had 12 seasons and someone didn't want to watch it because it was long it wouldn't make much sense. Especially after they stop after the first 10 minutes of the first episode. They'll go "Eh it's ok but it's not for me. I can see why people like this" without experiencing any of the characters, plots, etc.

But once they watch like the first season and get hooked they'll go HOLY SHIT THIS IS AWESOME THIS NEVER ENDS


I've seriously never met anyone who's read it all and is like "man this sucks". I just hear people saying they got hooked. Even that tumblr blog "what the fuck is homestuck" that was reading it to blog about how awful it is, fell in love with it.
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