10-04-2012, 06:40 PM | #1051 |
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I've expressed this opinion in various ways a few times before but now with another influx of hate-base from the Kickstarter making news and a few people I know trying to read HS and whatnot, I think it's a good time for me to flesh out my opinions once again.
Here's my thesis: It's okay to not like Homestuck or not want to read it, but don't discourage other people from doing it or knocking it as a whole because you don't like the first portion of it, but on the other hand, don't push people into it. Spoiler: show tl;dr: And Homestucks, give other fans an opportunity to discover it for themselves. This makes me want to write a Guide for Reading Homestuck. Maybe I'll do that. |
10-04-2012, 09:40 PM | #1052 | |
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dude of course you can still get the rewards
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10-05-2012, 01:27 AM | #1053 |
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http://www.vocaltwit.com/4636
Guys... Grey DeLisle (Azula on ATLA, Vicky on Fairly Odd Parents) just sent this out.
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10-05-2012, 02:41 AM | #1054 |
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Here's some pretty art for Talon. Sure it starts out looking lame but it get's better.
And that Grey reading of Vriska.. my god. Azula makes a perfect Vriska. Haha. |
10-05-2012, 05:55 AM | #1055 |
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Also this requires posting since Grey started reading Homestuck.
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10-05-2012, 02:46 PM | #1056 | |
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http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005653 not like this proves anything about the story or means that talon will or should suddenly enjoy it though, the art is all about style and how hussies chooses to mix the style up and it's just not talon's thing
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10-05-2012, 03:00 PM | #1057 |
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I was going to adjunct this to my other post but I got busy.
I don't really see why the art is something to complain about. I mean, yeah the stuff used in the first part is a bit rough, but that's part of the appeal, number one, and since when did a comic have to have good art to be good? A ton of webcomics and traditional comics that are considered to be good often have lackluster art. Not to mention, Hussie uses art style as a literary tool of sorts, using it for emphasis in some places and for contrast in others. Again, I feel like the art question is really judging a book by its cover and frankly, kinda nitpicky. The art isn't like eye-bleedingly bad. It's a little rough in places and can be repetitive... but what did you expect from a website named "MS Paint Adventures"? |
10-05-2012, 03:03 PM | #1058 | |
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10-05-2012, 03:48 PM | #1059 |
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I posted that one cause Deo told me to.
Really good points Jeri, but even if you cross of art, Talon will find other things to hate. |
10-05-2012, 03:50 PM | #1060 | |
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Furthermore, I don't think that Homestuck is enjoyed by those who enjoy it because they are open minded about artwork (though they well may be! but it's neither here nor there!). That is to say, I don't think most HS fans are people who believe the art to be repulsive. In my experience, with fans like Kuno plugging Homestuck artwork in bids to get me to check the series out and fans like Copy not just celebrating the artwork but emulating it in their own developing art styles, it has been my observation-theory that 90%+ of the people who enjoy Homestuck, rather than enjoying it in spite of the art, enjoy it at least in part because of of the art. That is to say, they are fans of both the artwork and the story. So when they turn around and say "Well just because you don't like the artwork doesn't mean you should give up! ", it makes me laugh a very dry, cynical laugh the exact same way I would if I were in a room that had the overwhelming stench of decaying corpses and I was told "Just because you don't like the smell of the room doesn't mean you can't enjoy the music playing on the overhead speakers! " by a Beethoven fan who just so happens to have permanently lost his sense of smell. It's one of those "Easy for YOU to say " eye roll-inducing moments in life. Yes, there is an unarguable truth in the rhetoric that the art's quality, be it good or bad, should have no bearing on the story's quality. But in my opinion there is just as inarguable a truth in the rhetoric that bad art does irreparably damage the overall product, the overall experience. For me personally -- and I'm not asking you to be the same as me, I'm just asking that you respectfully understand that such differences in taste exist with the subjective matter that is art -- the art, writing, and humor in Homestuck has proven to be prohibitively bad. Like I said, I never even met someone named Rose, let alone got to the other bits that author felt safe to spoil me on, never mind get to Act 2, 3, 4, 5, and so on. To me, these are examples of high quality artwork: this, this, this, this, or this. None of these I would save to my own collection. None of these appeal to me personally enough that I say "Wow, holy shit, MUST SAVE." Everyone has their own preferences when it comes to art. But my vision is not so clouded that I cannot assess these objectively and say, "These are masterfully done works." I think it would be a great insult to any of these artists to lump anyone on UPN in with them (at present time; that is not to say that any of our wonderful artists cannot one day match or even surpass these artists in ability). And I think it would be a great insult to pretty much each and every last one of UPN's artists to lump John Egbert in with them. As for the other "not Act 1" artwork that has been passed around by Kuno, Copy, and several other fans of Homestuck to me, all I can say is, as you brought up before:
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10-05-2012, 04:23 PM | #1061 |
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You are exactly going against every point I outlined in the post I just made.
Seriously. You are judging a book by its cover. And while I'm not saying you have to read all of Homestuck, making such an overarching snap judgement when you admit to not having met one of the major and most important characters yet (who I think you might actually like!) is kind of ridiculous. Like okay, whatever, you don't like the art. But you seem to be ignoring what I just said about how A) the art improves and gets as "high-quality" in many, many portions later on and that B) the art is the way it is for a reason, not because Hussie is a shitty artist. Your unwillingness to play along makes me sorta glad that you've given up on it, because I feel like even if you did get through it, you'd get so hung up on a lot of the nitpicky details that you'd be incapable of enjoying it. tl;dr: >It is okay to not like things. But don't be a dick about it. |
10-05-2012, 04:34 PM | #1062 | ||
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You claim that I completely missed the point of your post but I think this is just your personal discontent talking. I not only got the point of your post but I was specifically addressing this one line: Quote:
Say what you will about the rest of what I wrote but it was clarification of the very top two points I listed out for you, the above being one of them. I say the art is crude. You say the art is crude. I say the crude art is unappealing. You say the crude art is part of the appeal. And so I brought to your attention that we had this fundamental difference of opinion regarding crude art. That is all. I wasn't being nitpicky or a dick. You're the one being a dick now calling me a dick for giving you a thoughtful, civil reply.
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10-05-2012, 04:38 PM | #1063 | |
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Also HS suddenly reminds me of The Clefairy Show. o.O; Apparently the story turned somewhat serious and switched to MS Paint drawings after I stopped reading. ^^; Seems to have died soon after though. P.S. I think I got up to Act III over the summer. Still confused as hell. Will probably continue at some point, though like Jeri said I'd rather not feel pressured to do so.
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10-05-2012, 04:52 PM | #1064 | ||
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>Just popping in to say these animations are admittedly pretty cool. Were they done in Paint?
Probably not; looks like Vector painting to me. Possibly Flash. Quote:
I'm saying that you can be pretentious and that I'd rather not have you pick at every detail of something I enjoy, because I find it to be really obnoxious and obliquely condescending. If you're not willing to take something for what it is instead of casting down your uppity, intellectual judgement upon it, I'd be a lot more enthusiastic about you reading it. But if you're going to act so dismissive and pedantic, then I'd much rather have you just not be a part of it at all. This has nothing to do with in-groups and holier-than-thou. This has to do with how you're blatantly overreacting and ignoring what I'm trying to tell you. Quote:
I can't make you like the art but I feel like you're missing the reason it is crude and riding the author's choice to use such artwork and making it into a bigger issue than it actually is. If you would take the time to at least consider the things we've pointed out to you and stop making so many snap judgements, this wouldn't be a problem. I couldn't give ten shits about you not caring for Homestuck if I wanted to, nor do I think you're a "lesser" person or in an out-group because you haven't read the whole thing, but you sure are being an ass now, even if you are doing so "politely". |
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10-05-2012, 05:57 PM | #1065 |
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Judging by how much he said he read, he read .004% of Homestuck.
If he was watching a 2 hour movie, he gave it 28.8 seconds before giving up on the whole thing and writing paragraphs about how it's not for him. |
10-05-2012, 06:53 PM | #1066 | |||||
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Spoiler: show Quote:
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You basically watched the title sequence of a movie and expected the rest of the movie to emulate that sequence to a tee. Good job! Last edited by deoxys; 10-05-2012 at 06:56 PM. |
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10-05-2012, 08:15 PM | #1068 |
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10-05-2012, 08:20 PM | #1070 |
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10-05-2012, 11:03 PM | #1071 |
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Okay!
So I set up a tumblr account and drafted up an initial FAQ. I tried to keep it as spoiler-free as I possibly could. Would ya'll mind reading it over for errors and inaccuracies as well as suggesting anything or any questions I might add? Thanks a ton~ Spoiler: show Also, if I could get some suggestions (preferably with links) to non-spoilery examples of good HS art, I'd really like that. EDIT: Forgot a question, adding it in.
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10-05-2012, 11:11 PM | #1072 |
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god you guys are going about this the WHOLE FUCKIN WRONG WAY
who gives a shit if talon doesn't like homestuck omg he's not fuckin obligated to read past more than a few pages if he doesn't want to and he has every right to not like the art holy shit THE ISSUE WITH HIS POSTS IS he doesn't have to be so... matter-of-fact about everything he thinks is wrong with it. i mean he clearly is stating them as his opinion that may be different than someone else's opinion it's just not coming across as that way 90% of the time idk talon i don't have any problems with you i just think you aren't really good at expressing yourself online and sometimes you come across as a little condescending
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10-05-2012, 11:52 PM | #1073 |
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Hello there! I'm still currently trying to catch up to you guys, but I've also been a bit busy with work... Though Cascade was especially brilliant...
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10-06-2012, 02:41 AM | #1075 |
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To me, the fact that HS is really long is a good thing. Not wanted to get into something because it's too long always struck me as odd.
If Game of Thrones had 12 seasons and someone didn't want to watch it because it was long it wouldn't make much sense. Especially after they stop after the first 10 minutes of the first episode. They'll go "Eh it's ok but it's not for me. I can see why people like this" without experiencing any of the characters, plots, etc. But once they watch like the first season and get hooked they'll go HOLY SHIT THIS IS AWESOME THIS NEVER ENDS I've seriously never met anyone who's read it all and is like "man this sucks". I just hear people saying they got hooked. Even that tumblr blog "what the fuck is homestuck" that was reading it to blog about how awful it is, fell in love with it. |
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