Online Competitive Pokemon Battle Showdown Happy Fun Times

[Emi]

The items.

[Jerichi]

I feel like you're acting like the sky is falling.

Just because Pokemon make the ban list doesn't mean OU is going to be 100% those Pokemon, nor does it mean that only those Pokemon are viable in OU. I think this gen is plenty diverse and if people don't realize that, then they're just gonna have shitty teams and those who do will have a lot more success.

Also I'm really disappointed that Klefki is OU (even though I've been anticipating it from the start). It's in no way overpowered in any lower tier except for possibly the lowest, but its viability as a bulky Prankster has robbed the lower tiers of a potentially potent set up 'mon.

There's also a really horrible stigma associated with being an OU 'mon that ruins a lot of Pokemon (e.g. Wash Rotom) ;-;

[Emi]

The sky has already fallen for as long as Talonflame is OU. There are so many Pokemon that are made completely unviable for as long as Talonflame is around to 100% check them.

This gen isn't diverse sadly.The nerf to weather sadly killed any diversity then gen could have promised. I've been playing it for some time and I have a sun team that does well because it stops Rotom-W / Talonflame / Gliscor / Mega Luke / Genesect. It seems like there is diversity, but its really the same Pokemon over and over again and then the occasional Pokemon that completely destroys you(for me, its fucking Chansey -_-). There are just too many overpowered and overcentralizing Pokemon (looking at you Talonflame and Genesect) to make this meta worth it.

[Jerichi]

Play UU then. OU almost always sucks and is never worth it in my opinion.

Or better yet, take the time to breed a team and play on a cart. It's ridiculously easy now a days and gets even easier once you have a stock of parents to use for fast breeding.

[Emi]

I hadn't even realized that UU was a thing technically. Hmm.

And I don't own the game nor do I actually have the Wifi abilities to do so.

[phoopes]

>Klefki

The thing with Klefki is, if luck falls your way you can easily 6-0 teams with it on its own. The bad part is that it can also not KO anything pretty easily too. It's risky to use. However, the ability to spread status is really valuable this gen, IMO, and it can do that really well.

[Emi]

Personally, its the Dual Screen Klefki that can go die in a hole.

[Emp]

If you hate Talonflame and Genesect so much use a Heatran. I started using him to great success - he flat out counters the aforementioned, Aegislash and a lot of Fairies.

Also tiers are done on usage, not power. If Pokemon like lando start to centralise UU he'll be shoved into BL.

[Emi]

>implying I'm NOT using Heatran

You pretty much have to run defensive Heatran, and the scary part of that is that +2 Talonflame will 2HKO specially defensive versions. It's a literal WTF moment.

EDIT: Um....no duh? Drops are done by usage, but bans are done by power/overcentraliztion. I'm not sure what you are getting at there Emp.

[Emp]

Originally Posted by blazeVA

>implying I'm NOT using Heatran

You pretty much have to run defensive Heatran, and the scary part of that is that +2 Talonflame will 2HKO specially defensive versions. It's a literal WTF moment.

EDIT: Um....no duh? Drops are done by usage, but bans are done by power/overcentraliztion. I'm not sure what you are getting at there Emp.

I run specially defensive Heatran and never run into any problems. Heatran can deal with all Talonflame except bulky ones with taunt/roost (not the best set IMO) and you can always run Ancient Power if you wanted to.

And what I was getting about is that you shouldn't be getting hung up on tiers when they really don't mean anything. Goodra does not belong in OU for example.

[SoS]

Charizard in OU. I never thought I would live to see this day.

[Emi]

...why do I feel like I'm being condescended on? I play nearly everyday(despite how many times I threaten not to), I know what I'm doing Emp. I can literally post my set here, it does fine but if Talonflame gets a SD boost I just can't switch in.

Heatran @ Leftovers
248 HP / 252 Sp.Def / 8 Sp.Atk
Calm Nature
Flash Fire
-Stealth Rock
-Toxic
-Lava Plume
-Hidden Power [Rock]

And I'm sorry if I want the meta I play to be enjoyable okay. ;;

EDIT: Mega Charizard X is really quite good and its what I use to get past Special Walls, since I run 5 specially based Pokemon(Ninetales, Heatran, Venusaur, Starmie, Landorus). Charizard Y is a bit pants though.

[Emp]

Sorry if I came off as condescending, I didn’t mean to but I guess it’s because I’ve never had a problem with Talonflame. I've always just found it to be overhyped, frail and lacking on the offensive side if it doesn't get a Swords Dance up.

So if you switch in on a Fire attack or SD how can you not beat it with HP Rock? I run Lava Plume/Earth Power/Stealth Rock/Protect. I run two SR users (a bit of a waste I know but Heatran doesn’t need the free slot) so I usually always have Stealth Rock up so when I switch into Talon it’s usually on half health. I then alternate between Lava Plume and Protect as the recoil from Brave Bird and weak damage from Lava Plume is enough to out stall it.

I don’t know I run Heatran, Gliscor, Rotom-W (although I’ve recently switched him for Lanturn to try and use less OU pokes) and T-Tar so I’ve never been swept by a Talonflame. My team is pathetic against the likes of Mega Nasty Plot Luke, Mega Pinsir and a few others though.

[Emi]

If a Talonflame is using Flare Blitz against my team, I have to assume my opponent is retarded. Swords Dance is easier to switch in on but I still don't like taking a +2, especially if I've also been trying to keep things like Aegislash under wraps.

So you were the one who I saw using Lanturn and then quit? (mufufufu) I should eventually post my Sun team, I'm at 1900ish right now which is quite good.

[Emp]

I doubt it. I've been using cart over Showdown for the past few weeks. I've seen a few people use Lanturn and it does have some advantages over Rotom (Scald, Heal Bell, Ice Beam to name a few) that make it not entirely outclassed. It wishes it could switch into EQ like Rotom can though.

[phoopes]

Another thing on Klefki:

After a bit of help from Sableye, Klefki takes down Rotom-W (1st in usage), Talonflame (2nd), Lucario (3rd), Ferrothorn (11th), Alakazam (21st) and Ditto (lol who cares). I mean, UU does have a lot of stupidly powerful Pokemon right now, so maybe Klefki could be placed there. But honestly, it's really really good in OU so I can imagine it staying there.

By the way this is still that sort of stall team I've been working on. After realizing that I got killed by Excadrill and Rotom-W, I switched Tyranitar and Togekiss for Sableye and Celebi. It's been doing pretty great so far, except the one game where I ran into Toxic/EQ/Ice Fang/Roost Gliscor. So I put HP Ice on Celebi now but I'm kind of screwed if I run into Acrobatics Gliscor I think. Maybe switch Celebi from specially defensive to physically defensive and throw a bunch of EV's into Special Attack?

[Emi]

The thing is phoopes you could give any Pokemon that set of moves and abilities and they would be just as good. That set is cheap, it doesn't say anything about a Pokemon's usefulness.

[Red Panda]

*pops in* Bulky Mamo does pretty well against some Talonflame sets. I'm still using a team back from Platinum.

[Talon87]

Popping in 'n' out real fast to share this: somebody on Miiverse by the name of A. Boss claims that his was an "epic battle" that can be viewed at Battle Video code USRW-WWWW-WWW4-9WZF. Can't watch it right now myself but figured I'd share it here for your perusal.

[Jerichi]

So I had an idea for a VGC team and I thought I'd give it a test on Showdown. I still have some kinks to work out but I think my current format works pretty well, all things considered.

MegaGar has some trouble

Spoiler: show

My first win with this team; a little lackluster I think. It does show the potential for Talonflame as a nice post-sun sweeper and really shows off the crippling potential of my Meowstick. Even if Meowstick isn't terribly well suited to Singles, I think his moveset makes him just as good of a dual screener as Klefki.

Kale's Last Stand

Spoiler: show

This shows off one of the biggest weaknesses in my team: weather control. I think my last-minute answer with a Sunny Day from my Venu did fix some of the issue, but I played poorly on the last three turns and threw out any chance at a win. I'm gonna keep thinking about this to see if I can tweak my line-up to deal with this issue.

Turn It Around

Spoiler: show

This match was definitely a learning experience for me. I had a huge fuck up in the first turn when I forgot to Mega, which could have easily cost me the match. With sun up, I would have been much safer with Heliolisk since he would have been running on Solar Power, but without it, I ran a huge risk. Thankfully, Axe came in and saved the day.

I also learned a lot about Heliolisk like A) Parabolic Charge hits all targets (which is actually potentially really helpful because it means I can sacrifice my hurting Meowstick to get back health) B) Heliolisk's Attack is shit and C) Solar Power is not actually 100% needed for Heliolisk to be good! I ended up revising his moveset right after this to something that actually made sense.

Synergy

Spoiler: show

So I was initially doubting the viability of Mister Meowstick, but this battle really showed me how essential he is to my team. His paralysis and screens shut down the offensive train this team was trying to run, especially considering it really bulks up my two rather fragile central sweepers. It's also a really good example of what MegaZardY does best in Doubles, acting as a rather strange Mega Suicide Lead. Mr. Meowstick and MegaZardY are pretty much guaranteed to pick off at least one threat and likely cripple a second, allowing the other two to come in and benefit from the screens long enough to pick off everything else.

This also shows how nicely Heliolisk and Talonflame work together, and how Meowstick can work in the late game if he manages to survive that long.

Overall impressions and seeking advice:

Spoiler: show

This team was originally intended as a VGC edit of a Cherrim-centric Doubles team I wanted to do but has sort of morphed into a thing of its own. Since my three key players, Cherrim, Whimsicott and Ninetales, are all not found in the Kalos Dex (and the two Grassers aren't even found in Kalos at all), I had to rework the team entirely. The only surviving members from that original configuration are Heliolisk and Greninja (though Talonflame was in an earlier draft).

I was originally dobutful of the potency of the set-up, especially how unreliable and flaky Sun was in Gen V. Drought and Sunny Day teams have basically always been my team-of-choice, because I feel like they really let underutilized but still viable Pokémon shine. I feel like this team really speaks to my old Sunny Day teams while still very much modernizing them.

As for each team member:

I was really surprised at Meowstick. Meowstick wasn't my first choice as a Prankster. Since I was looking for a replacement for Whimsicott (which was intended as an annoyer and Tailwind supplier), I went immediately to Sableye or Purrloin, but decided at the last minute to try out Meowstick-M. I was pleasantly surprised to find that he works just as well as Klefki (who is somewhat threatened by the sun) in the screening role and has the bonus of Fake Out, which allows Charizard to at least attempt a kill.

MegaZardY was really my only choice since he's the only viable Drought supplier in the game at the moment. I've heard MegaZardX talked up quite a bit but ZardY is often pushed to the side due to his inferior typing and comparably lackluster offense to the truck that is ZardX. I came into this expecting ZardY to be my central pivot, moving him in and out to maintain sun. I quickly learned, though, that this is probably not the best role for him, and he actually works much, much better as a suicide lead as sorts when paired with Meowstick. It generally goes like this.

Turn 1:
Meowstick FO's the biggest threat to ZardY's life OR the faster of the two if the threat is slower than ZardY.
ZardY hits the other one to KO it or the threat if it's big enough.

Turn 2:
Meowstick sets up the screen that will best defend them. (ALT: Meowstick cripples a sweeper)
ZardY either does an Area attack to finish off the one he went for first or targets the threat from before.

Anything beyond that is gravy.

Usually after turn 2 or 3, ZardY falls, but he generally has taken at least one 'mon with him and Meowstick has either buffed with screens or paralyzed any future threats. I've been moderately satisfied by ZardY, but I think I have a few edits to make to ramp up his power. For one, Heat Wave doesn't hit nearly hard enough. I'm considering going for Fire Blast instead, or perhaps going a little more physical and finding an alternative to SolarBeam, especially if it can be used to punish T-Tar more reliably. Brick Break perhaps?

Heliolisk has been sort of a strange creature, but it's a pretty potent player in Doubles. It does extremely well under sun with Solar Power but is also surprisingly good without the sun. Parabolic Charge is fabulous since it drains from everyone, allowing me to steal a little life if I need to (and potentially heal it off with Roost if I play right!). I haven't played too much with his fixed set yet, but I think it should be pretty solid considering his core moves have worked out well thus far.

Talonflame is exactly what you expect. I like my Roost/U-Turn/Brave Bird/Flare Blitz set over the SD set for Doubles since Set Up is so rare after the first turn. I'm not totally sure that I need U-Turn, but it is better than a pure switch.

The last two are a little iffy and this is where I'd like the advice.

Greninja was sort of tacked on to this team because of two factors A) Mat Block and B) I already have a Froakie ready to be trained. I've yet to use him with any success on this team so I think I'm going to give him up. Part of my problem has been that the physical set I tried was a little lackluster and while it wasn't horrible, it just wasn't really doing it for me. What I was looking for was a nice physical attacker that doesn't mind the sun, but Greninja doesn't really work with this team, unfortunately. What might work as an alternative?

Also, Venusaur, while good in theory, doesn't work so well as an anti-weather. For one, it really doesn't stand up against T-Tar too well, which is my biggest weather contender on this team. I already have two solid weather lovers who work well anywhere so it seems silly to have a Pokémon that is supposed to be an answer to that just end up being reliant on the weather. What should I use as my answer to sand?

[DaisyInari]

Gen V random, lasted only 7 turns xd; I led with an Articuno and my opponent with an Aron so I thought, "Hey, I got nothing to lose soooooo" and the rest was history!


EDIT: Reading this, it sounds like a sweep but my opponent forfeited after 3 were KO'd ~_~

[Jerichi]

Little more of my VGC team, with some edits here and there. I'm having a LOT of trouble with Garchomp. :x

Stall-a-Palooza

WTF Weather

[Emi]

On that last match, why didn't you switch to Charizard ASAP? He really doesn't have anything to stop you from wrecking face.

[Jerichi]

It's VGC and I didn't bring Charizard. Either I have Banette or Charizard.

But I'm reformulating my team to use something a little more comfortable in weather as my Charizard sub. Unfortunately, all the good Garchomp/T-Tar Mega Counters are slow as shit.

[Red Panda]

Bulky Mamoswine is pretty good at countering TTar and Garchomp. For my team I use Krookodile for Ttar, and with a MegaGard neither bothers me much.