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Old 10-29-2019, 08:39 AM   #5001
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What was it for?
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Old 10-29-2019, 09:19 AM   #5002
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User "miranda" found my name objectionable. I don't know if that's a mod or someone who was just offended.
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Old 11-15-2019, 10:37 PM   #5003
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Gen VIII is live ladies and gents.
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Old 11-16-2019, 05:47 AM   #5004
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I don't know what I'm doooooing.
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Old 11-16-2019, 08:48 AM   #5005
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Gen 8 replay

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Old 11-16-2019, 04:38 PM   #5006
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No sleep clause in Gen VIII. Instead, auto sleep moves are banned.

This was mentioned in the Discord as a possibility but now it's official, decided behind closed doors.
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Old 11-16-2019, 11:18 PM   #5007
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G-max Copperajah's Max Move has the secondary effect of laying a Steel-type variant of Stealth Rock. That is, Ice, Rock Fairy-types take 25% damage on the switch.

Big for Unaware Clefable. If this gets a move...
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Old 11-17-2019, 04:46 AM   #5008
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Low elo shenanigans.

Wow for Pelipper though. I'm running my patented physically defensive + assault vest set, and look at that. Max Flutterby just makes it more difficult to break through the scarf Hydreigon.

I'm having a lot of trouble breaking through Corviknight though. Corviknight bulks up and then Dynamaxes whenever I bring in a check, like Darmanitan.
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Old 11-17-2019, 08:07 AM   #5009
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No Barraskuda?
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Old 11-17-2019, 06:25 PM   #5010
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I can't find any opportunity to get it in safely and it's Dynamax bait. Pelipper is my bulkiest overall pivot but it's still 2HKO'd by most things. I haven't the courage to use Rotom now that it can't wall Gyarados. I had more success using Seismitoad anyway due to his better bulk and useful resistances.

Stall is absolutely dominating Gen VIII at the highest levels. Dynamax makes revenge killing impossible for most teams, so they're moving from HO to bulky offense to just bulky walls. Toxapex, Ferrothorn, Clefable and Corsola eat up hyper offense and can sponge dynamax.

I don't know what Smogon will ultimately do, but the correct decision is to ban dynamax and then ban the super walls like Toxapex, Ferrothorn, and Clefable. There is a shortage of viable electric types, and electric-type coverage isn't very strong. Without toxic, Unaware Clefable is 100% superior to the magic guard variant,

Physical attackers are also everywhere and unchecked. Even with Intimidate, I still took like 50% from scarf Darmanitan Icicle Crash.
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Old 11-17-2019, 07:28 PM   #5011
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Stall isn't in a great position right now. Dynamax really hurts Defensive Pokemon over more offensive ones and the best Dynamax sweepers (Gyarados, Barraskuda, Gengar, Hawlucha) all have immensely powerful Max-moves. Gengar, in particular, obliterates Stall since Chansey no longer exists.

The fact that Dynamaxing makes every non-damaging option Max Guard really, really sucks.
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Old 11-17-2019, 08:03 PM   #5012
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You might want to spectate the high elo ladders; stall is very effective at handling dynamax for the very reason that dynamax has obsoleted revenge killing as an offensive tool. Hyper offense and offense teams have given way to Gyarados + defensive core.

Toxapex is the biggest threat to dynamax because she hazes away the offensive boosts, and resists Gyarados' Max Geyser.
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Old 11-18-2019, 01:52 PM   #5013
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Bullet Punch is not the move I thought it was.
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:36 PM   #5014
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Shadow Tag has been banned, but it doesn't look like it's been removed from Showdown yet. This guy got what he deserved.
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:50 PM   #5015
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give anything Toxic, Protect and Roar and you got yourself some bullshit right there
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:54 PM   #5016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixdragons_in_atrenchcoat View Post
give anything Toxic, Protect and Roar and you got yourself some bullshit right there
Not really on the Roar part- Toxic's timer resets every time the pokemon is sent out, and the first round is always worse than normal Poisoning. Unless you also have Entry Hazards set up, phasing is only going to be detrimental to the strategy.
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Old 11-19-2019, 04:59 AM   #5017
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Everything hits insanely hard, look at that damage done by the Dragapult to Pelipper.

Obstagoon and Grimmsnarl are pretty underrated threats because there's very little way to punish priority right now. Intimidate and physical defense don't seem to be enough to stomach damage: look at how much my max defense defensive Gyarados took from his Dynados.

You might ask why I didn't just KO the Gyarados with Rotom, but I was playing around a potential Power Whip. Gyarados has been running Waterfall, Bounce, and Earthquake to hit Toxapex. But this one was using Substitute in place of that and I didn't know at first.

Theoretically, I could use something close to my Gen VII OU team in Gen VIII:

Pelipper
Mega Swampert
Ash-Greninja
Rotom-Wash
Azumarill
Qwilfish/Gyarados/Seismitoad

But it would go to

Pelipper
Seismitoad
???
Rotom-Wash
???
Qwilfish

The problem here compared to Gen VII is a severe lack of priority. I relied heavily on Ash-Greninja to snipe offensive threats and outspeed priority users in rain, but the equivalent to that here is Barraskewda.

Unfortunately, Qwilfish can't learn Explosion for some reason. If it could, Dynamaxing with it would be way better than Waterium Z in Gen VII.
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Old 11-19-2019, 05:18 AM   #5018
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Sadface, humiliated in front of a live studio audience.
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Old 11-20-2019, 12:04 AM   #5019
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Can someone explain to me why people think Dragapult is awful because it doesn't have Ghost-type STAB?

I'm not sure if people are serious or if this is some troll movement geared at trying to convince others it's true.
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Old 11-20-2019, 12:33 AM   #5020
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No one thinks Dragapult is awful. The problem is that due to poor physical coverage and the fact that it only has Phantom Force as a Ghost STAB, it can't properly work as a pure, physical DD sweeper (thanks to, in part, that one fucking fairy). It works a lot better as a mixed or pure special Pokemon due to its much better coverage.
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Old 11-20-2019, 01:30 AM   #5021
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I don't know what Fairy you're referring to, but if you're talking about Grimmsnarl, Ghost STAB wasn't going to help anyway.

Dragapult is excellent, amazing even. Dragon Darts is as spammable as Double Iron Bash and I don't see people criticize Melmetal for coverage problems. Imagine that people are saying Dragapult would be better with Shadow Claw, a 70 BP move that only hits Psychics and Ghosts, over the 30% stronger Dragon Darts.

The only Pokemon where Ghost-STAB would matter are Ghost weak Steels and Fairies. So basically,

Aegislash
Bronzong
Corsola
Doublade
Gardevoir
Hatterene

Against Bronzong, Gardevoir, and Hatterene, there is a brutally powerful U-Turn. Against Corsola, Dragapult can status it with Thunder Wave and Will-o-Wisp. It can even run Thief if you're that concerned with it.

Aegislash, Doublade, Grimmsnarl and Obstagoon are the checks that Dragapult can't overcome, but it couldn't beat then even with Shadow Sneak for priority.

No x4 weakness means Dragapult can even tank Ice Shard from Adamant+ LO Mamoswine, which would kill Garchomp, Lando and any of the Dragon/Flying bretheren.
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Old 11-20-2019, 07:22 AM   #5022
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Clefable.

Clefable.
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Old 11-20-2019, 12:36 PM   #5023
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All Clefable are Unaware Calm Minders and are vulnerable to status, especially Thunder Wave. I pivot out of that matchup with U-Turn. Dragapult needs Poison Jab or something stronger than Phantom Force to 2HKO Clefable and would at best tie if Clefable got a free switch.

The best set I think isn't DD. It's Dragon Darts/Fire Blast/Thunder Wave/U-Turn. All three walls are vulnerable to status, especially paralysis. So are the priority users.
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Old 11-20-2019, 12:45 PM   #5024
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Yeah but Clefable literally doesn't lose to DD Dragapult, which is the point. You can't even meaningfully damage it with Phantom Force because of the charge period.
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Old 11-20-2019, 01:04 PM   #5025
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Even if Phantom Force didn't have a charge, it's not a 2HKO. Unless you run Naughty. And with the LO set, Clefable will do 90% and LO recoil will take away the remaining 10%.

It's not a positive matchup even with Ghost STAB, which is really the point I'm getting at: Dragapult doesn't need or care about Ghost STAB except in a handful of situations. The two Pokemon it does want it for, the Aegislash line, OHKO's with Shadow Sneak.

Maybe if Tapu Koko and Lele were still around, I'd feel more remorse for the lack of a second 100 BP STAB move.
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