Online Competitive Pokemon Battle Showdown Happy Fun Times

[Heather]

Alright. It's mostly so that I can near guarantee that Chatot has a Sub to take a hit or two before taking hits on Pass-ins.

[Princess Ana]

Well I mean if you see a Sub in VGC and you don't immediately go after it with both Pokemon, you are pretty daft.

[Heather]

That why I'm having Sylveon with its quite large HP stat set it up, to have the most longevity.

[Princess Ana]

Well I mean that's not the point. Most Subs will break in one hit and then your opponent will attack your now bare Chatot.

[rotomotorz]

Subs are usable but generally to be avoided unless you have some kind of wacky strategy up your sleeve

[Heather]

Replays aren't working but I just had a match where Chatot earned itself the valiant effort award' finishing a Manectric and a Tyranitar while behind a sub of its own (I decided to make Sylveon be a Wish Passer). It couldn't take out the last two members of the guys team but it was the last man sta ding and it did that and I am proud of you Chatot. Of course, passing to it is really not working out because most of the good passers only have Calm Mimd access and that time is too much.

[Jerichi]

I heard that MegaRaquayquay was quickbanned from Ubers. Is this true?

[phoopes]

Originally Posted by Jerichi

I heard that MegaRaquayquay was quickbanned from Ubers. Is this true?

No. I just checked the Ubers subforum and can't find any kind of announcement abut it.

[Jerichi]

Anything about Dragon Ascent?

[Heather]

MegaQuaza is broken by Ubers standards. I would suspect that Xerneas is the only thing that can hope to counter it and that's questionable at best, what with base 180 in both offenses.

[Princess Ana]

To be honest, what breaks CrayCrayMegaRayQuay isn't his stats, but the fact that it doesn't need a Mega Stone to mega evolve. That's the real issue, as it ensures that Mega Rayquaza is 100% stronger than its mega evo.

[Heather]

You do realize that MegaQuayQuay's base stats are that of Arceus with anything not an offense chopped off a bit and the leftovers added to its offenses, right? It's crazy. Life Orb just puts a cherry on this already insane cake.

[Princess Ana]

Yes and Kyurem-B has a BST of 700 despite being in OU and the Mega Mewtwo forms have been fine in Ubers since their inception.

Stats have not, and will not, ever tell the full story.

[Heather]

I find this amusing considering the big railing against Aegislash was its 150 Base Stats across its forms, and apparently that was enough of a story for Haunter.

[Princess Ana]

That was not Aegislash's big railing. It's biggest railing was how it skewed the meta.

[Heather]

I remember going trough that thread at the time and I remember the vast majority of the posts pro-ban mentioned its stats at some point. You say they're not that important, but they really play a bigger role than you seem willing to admit. Not 100%, of course, but outright ignoring the fact that they play a rather large part is not something I agree with. I mean if you take out the stats the Pro-Ban Aegi argument becomes "it has an annoying protect variant and it makes you run EQ when you would have already." You see it kind of becomes a silly thing without "it can switch between 150 in both offenses and defenses" added in to make it a real monster to deal with.

[Princess Ana]

No its primary argument was that is influenced what you ran on your Pokemon and Pokemon you ran. You didn't run starmie, mega gardevoir, mega medicham etc simply because Aegislash existed. Hell, sp.def Gliscor came into being because of it.

I'm not saying stats aren't important, i'm saying you put waaaaaayyyyyyy too much importance on them.

[Heather]

I'll say that Starmie's nonexistance was because something faster, stringer, and in posession of STAB no matter what exists: Greninja. Greninja made Starmie vanish, sword be damned. And if by Sp. Def gliscor you mean those annoying little things that used Substitute and Protect and Posion Heal, those existed back when my ace in the hole was BellyJet Azumarill, back when Gen 6 was just starting to form and the meta was Talonflame and Greninja and Rotom Wash everywhere. MegaAquaza should be on a ban table for Ubers because it is a buffed up Arceus that can essentially make it Dragon typed with a bonus Ground Immunity that can use an item. Arceus' offenses can be walled, and if MegaQuaza's stats were just that of Arceus, it would essentially be an Arceus who couldn't have a variable type. And if Ubers had a Doubles meta, anything Flying-typed instantly becomes a big player due to being able to shed the weaknesses while keeping the immunities and resistances. Give that sort of thing to Arceus and at least 120 offenses aren't the end of the world. 180 just takes it over the top.

[Sparkbeat]

So, having actually contributed to Smogon and been close to getting a badge there at one point before I decided I'd rather put time into other things, mainly PASBL, let me just say that if your source is the discussion thread...just no. The majority of posts in those threads are from people who have no chance of making suspect reqs, are extremely biased for no reason one way or the other, and generally have no idea what they're talking about.

As for Aegislash, Blaze is right and he's already spoken on the subject. Stats are a big part of Aegislash, but they are probably a middle reason for why it was banned. Not too minor, but not among the major reasons.

As for stats, in general it's not the stats of a Pokemon. Rather, it's the Pokemon's ability to abuse those stats to its fullest. Using the Kyurem-B example, it may have a massive attack and respectable bulk, but in a metagame with many Steel moves, Rock moves, and Fighting moves, it's never safe from super effective attacks, especially when it's speed it lackluster. It also lacks a physical STAB move, making it rely on coverage, most of which is Specially based, meaning it has to split it's EV's.

Now, none of that applies to Mega Rayquaza. I have no clue how overpowered it is in Ubers due to not playing any of it, but I do know it has the coverage to completely abuse its stats. However, with its lower speed, it obviously does have checks. In addition, it's defenses aren't too great, so if you let it set-up Dragon Dance, then you probably messed up somewhere if your team was prepared well. It's the same matter as Extreme Killer Arceus, just that Mega Rayquaza has better coverage. In exchange for that, it has more weaknesses. Regardless, I'm of the philosophy that nothing should be banned from Ubers besides rules and illegal stuff, like Species Clause and Gen 1 Biders.

Also, Specially Defensive Gliscor is an EV spread, not necessarily a moveset. Toxic Stall has existed for a while, but very few people ran Special Defense EV's on Gliscor until Aegislash rose to prominence.

[Princess Ana]

Sp.Def Gliscor generally has specially defensive EVs spread and Knock Off / Taunt / Toxic / Roost.

SubProtect is an awful set and I don't know why people run it.

[Heather]

Huh. For some reason I always felt the SpD and Toxic Stall were one and the same (probably due to them being able to tank special hits pretty well when I could hit the damn things). Thanks for clearing that up, though. Though while we're on the subject of Übers I remember the days when that tier consisted of box cover legends, some mythicals, and Deoxys save Speed Forme.

My, we've come a long way. Granted, I'd just started Pearl around the time I stumbled across that list on the Internet, and so I wasn't even ten years old yet. It's been probably nearly a decade since then.

[Mercutio]

Fml I want ASB Rayquay so bad

[Jerichi]

>Mega Sally to Ubers

Shocker!

[phoopes]

Turns out I was wrong earlier today. Mega Rayquaza has been banned from Ubers, and thus, a new sub-tier was formed. Anything Goes includes MegaRay, no sleep clause, no moody clause, no species clause, etc. I actually just thought about OHKO Clause but it's not mentioned in the thread anywhere... Speaking of which:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads...hread.3523229/

[rotomotorz]

And then we have NU Anything Goes and then RU Anything Goes and then UU and OU anything goes and then Uber anything goes!