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Old 03-30-2012, 09:15 PM   #76
Talon87
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I found an excellent Japanese-language resource for figuring out these bushou evolutions. wiki.grovyle.net appears to be a Japanese wiki site and they have an extensive selection of articles on this game. As you can see from the link provided, they've listed off all the bushou stages of evolution as well as their community's theories regarding what it takes to get the bushous to evolve. And it's a hell of a lot more informative than Serebii's page. ^_^; When they're not sure about a requirement, they honestly report with a question mark beside it. But when there's no question mark, it seems to indicate that they're preeeetty confident they've got it right. So, here's what they had to say for Nouhime:
Quote:
1.コレクションのポケモンで、「ゴーストタイプ」を全て埋める(登録も必須)
2.ムウマかムウマージのリンク値を60%以上にする
Well, I fulfilled requirement #2 a while back. My Nouhime is currently sitting at 66.92% linkage with her Misdreavus. ^_^; So what about requirement #1? Their community is suggesting that I need to get every single Ghost-type Pokemon registered and accounted for in my Pokemon inventory. Well shit. ^_^; Having never seen a Dusknoir or Chandelure before, it's no wonder my Nouhime isn't evolving! I was hoping to let Kanbei's Lampent remain a Lampent until after he evolved, but if it's going to be necessary to have a Chandelure to get Nouhime to evolve, then I guess Lampent's going to be made to hold a Dusk Stone pretty soon. As for Dusknoir, I have two spare Reaper Cloths (hooray being filthy rich! ), so I should be able to go and find some chump Dusclops, have a compatible bushou befriend it, and evolve that sucker ASAP.

Some other important differences from Serebii you should note!

Kenshin and Shingen: Serebii isn't reporting anything special for Shingen while for Kenshin he's reporting that you need to have completed his (Kenshin's) episode first in order for him to evolve. Well, these Grovyle guys disagree. They seem to indicate that the two rivals play off of one another, that if you want Shingen to evolve you need to have completed his rival Kenshin's episode first and vice versa. So don't waste your time on either of these two dudes until you've beaten BOTH of their episodes!

Ginchiyo and Muneshige: This one's one of the most frequently asked about on Serebii's forums, it seems, and if the Japanese fans' report is to be believed, I can see why! Serebii thought he'd figured it out when he told people that you need to have these two in the same city in order for them to evolve. Well, according to the Japanese, that's wrong. ^^; Serebii's right that Muneshige and Ginchiyo play off of one another, but he's missing an important detail: "自軍の地続きになっていない城にムネシゲがいる(同じ城は不可)", write the Grovyle fan wiki editors. In other words, you need to have Muneshige and Ginchiyo in separate castles (NOT THE SAME CASTLE!) and furthermore there's the stipulation that the castles not be ones adjoining their own army. Now whether "their own army" means my army (in which case I don't even see how that'd be right, seeing as you can't station allied generals in enemy castle towns ) or whether it means Ginchiyo's thunder nation, I don't know, but I'll be sure to test it out shortly. I'll place Ginchiyo in the steel city and I'll place Muneshige in the dark city. They don't touch one another and they don't touch the two's home kingdom. Hopefully this'll fulfill the requirements.

Masamune: Glad I didn't bother with this one yet. ^^; According to the wiki, "マサムネのエピソードである". Translation? You gotta be playing Masamune's episode in order to get him to evolve. So don't even bother trying to level this guy up in any of the other episodes!

Anyway, there lots of others for you guys to check out for yourselves, but I just thought I'd draw your attention to some of the trickiest ones.
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Old 03-31-2012, 10:15 AM   #77
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Talon want to write a guide for me to put on UPN?
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Old 03-31-2012, 07:48 PM   #78
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Status update time. But first ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Emperor View Post
Talon want to write a guide for me to put on UPN?
Sounds like a lot of work that I'm not cut out for. I mean, I'm willing to help out, I guess, if you want to spearhead it, but no, I'm not going to go out of my way to do this or solo it. ^_^; Seems pretty pointless to me when, in just a matter of 2 to 3 weeks, Serebii is going to have made corrections to all of his embarrassingly wrong claims and from then on his site will be just as reliable for folks playing this game as any of his other pages are for the other games. If you mean a guide like a "How to optimize your Pokenaga experience" advice column, then sure, I could do that. I could definitely help people to avoid the mistakes I made and to really get the most mileage out of their hours invested.

Okay, now for the status update ...

Bushou list:
Spoiler: show
-Evolved-
1. Hideyoshi
2. Oichi
3. Motonari
4. Motochika
5. Ginchiyo
6. Muneshige
7. Kaihime
8. Ieyasu
9. Okuni

-Soonish to Evolve-
10. Nouhime (just need to fulfil the ghost requirements)
11. Hanbei (59.91% )
12. Kanbei (59.44%)
13. Yukimura (61%)
14. Hattori Hanzou (55.48%)

-Not Really Going to Evolve Soon but still ...-
15. Shingen (haven't done Kenshin's episode yet so ...)
16. Kenshin (haven't done Shingen's episode yet so ...)
17. Mitsuhide
18. Aya Gozen
19. many others

The folks over at the Grovyle Japanese wiki definitely know their stuff. Or at least, my success with getting Muneshige and Ginchiyo to evolve on the first try after following their advice leads me to believe this. So I'm taking their claim about Nou's evolution to heart -- and that means it's grind, grind, grind time once again. -.- Only this time I'm not grinding for bushou evolutions: this time it's all about getting the Pokémon themselves to evolve so that I can fill up my collection list with every single ghost-type in the game. Current status:

Spoiler: show
-Acquired-
1. Litwick, Lampent
2. Duskull, Dusclops
3. ---
4. Gastly / Haunter
5. Drifloon
6. Misdreavus
7. Spiritomb

-Going To Get Soon-
1. Chandelure (once Kanbei evolves and fights at least once with his Lampent)
2. Dusknoir (I thought I'd met the requirements here but I guess not )
3. Froslass (once I'm sure I've got the best possible Snorunt for Aya Gozen, I'll evolve it)
4. Gengar
5. Drifblim
6. Mismagius (will get after Nou evolves if all you need is to have seen things; otherwise will get last in order to make her evolve)

Some of these are going to be really easy to get. Chandelure I'll get before the night's over, for certain. Others of these will take varying degrees of effort. Dusknoir should be easy now that I know what I have to do: you have to not only put the Reaper Cloth on him, you've also got to have him defeat a wild bushou in battle and (if I'm not mistaken) you have to recruit that bushou afterwards. Froslass I could theoretically do right this very minute but I'm scouting for the best possible Snorunt for Aya Gozen first. (The one I got for her ages ago, currently at 45% linkage, has the exact same stats as some of the wild ones I've been finding at 55% linkage, so I guess that may be a sign that I got godly lucky with my original catch. ^^; ) Gengar has the same sort of problem as Dusknoir minus the evolution hold item. And then there's Drifblim. Ohhhhhh Driflblim. This guy is going to be hard if only because I only have one chump bushou who has a Drifloon right now and I'm not sure his linkage ceiling is high enough to facilitate the creature's evolution. If it is too low, then I may be screwed: no Drifloons are showing up in the wild for me, so it's either this guy or bust. (When I go to the collection page for Drifloon and look at the world map, zero regions light up, indicating that, at least in Hideyoshi's episode, there are zero Drifloons in the wild. ^_^; )

Last edited by Talon87; 03-31-2012 at 07:51 PM.
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Old 04-01-2012, 05:18 PM   #79
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Status update:

This is probably my last big push before I finally finish off Hideyoshi's episode once and for all. I've gotten more bushous to evolve than I ever dreamed of doing in this first pass and I've so thoroughly broken the game ^_^; that Nobunaga is whimpering in the corner, refusing to invade any of my cities unless I lower the score to 400+ points beneath his. I have over 390,000 gold and am wondering when the traveling merchant will show up again so that I can abuse the system and purchase a shitton more of evolution items to carry over into other save files where I can easily sell them for cash when necessary.

Here's my current bushou roster (with percentages, though those won't carry over, of course):

Spoiler: show
-Evolved-
1. Hideyoshi (78.57%)
2. Hanbei (66.05%)
3. Kanbei (64.10%)
4. Oichi (65.53%)
5. Motonari (67.51%)
6. Motochika (72.75%)
7. Ginchiyo (68.93%)
8. Muneshige (64.67%)
9. Aya Gozen (62.30%)
10. Yukimura (66.66%)
11. Kaihime (65.87%)
12. Hanzou (69.92%)
13. Okuni (68.47%)
14. Ieyasu (81.00%)

-Will Evolve Soon-
Nouhime (75.27%)

-Working On Getting To Evolve (Supplemental)-
Nene (57.23%)
Kanetsugu (54.10%)

-Can't Evolve This Time Around-
Kenshin (63.41%) - haven't done Shingen's episode
Shingen (62.60%) - haven't done Kenshin's episode
Mitsuhide (77.86%) - haven't done his episode yet

-Not Going To Bother With This Time Around ...?-
Gracia (40.76%)
Ujiyasu (52.67%)
quite a few others (can't be bothered to list them all)

As you can see, that's quite a lot of bushous. In fact, there are only what? 34 or so special bushou characters in the game? So that's roughly half of the entire pool that I've already managed to get to evolve. ^_^; (In fact, it will become exactly half once I get Nou, Nene, and Kanetsugu to evolve.)

Now, how about my collection lists? Well, as you probably already know if you're playing this game, the collection list can be kinda inaccurate because it only reports you as owning a Pokemon if you've used that Pokemon in at least one battle. But I tend to be pretty good about making bushous with new creatures fight in a battle for precisely that reason, so I think this number should be fairly accurate. For Pokémon, I've got 159/199 registering as seen and 128/199 Pokémon registering as owned. Getting Crobat for Nene and Alakazam for Kanetsugu ought to push the seen count up by two; and getting them plus Nou's Mismagius should push the owned count up by three. A lot of the things I don't own or haven't seen, discounting the six Eeveelutions, Wigglytuff (I still need to make Jigglypuff evolve! ^_^; ), and the numerous legendaries in the game, are the members of the Fighting, Rock, Ground, and Dark families. I have a lot of their basic stages seen and owned but there's a good number of their evolutions that are neither seen nor owned yet since I don't really use any of those types much on my teams. Other than that though, my Dex looks pretty darn filled out.

The Japanese wiki I mentioned before, wiki.grovyle.net, has been immensely helpful. It hasn't steered me wrong yet. It seems that the Serebii crowd are finally discovering its secrets for themselves so I would expect corrections from Serebii Joe in the next few days. Sadly, even the Grovyle folks aren't 100% certain about what it takes to evolve Mitsuhide. I can tell you this much: linkage percentage with his Lapras is not enough. ^_^; (If it was, you'd think 77.86% linkage would have been good enough. Although I guess he could always be crazy like Nobunaga and actually require 80% linkage ... ) They're reporting that they think (1) you have to have beaten his episode first and (2) you need to get him to 70% with either Lapras or Articuno. This is probably correct. I guess I'll find out after I complete his episode, though I've no intention of grinding him to 70% linkage any time soon. Not unless the game unveils some magical item that's like, "Hey, dude! You can now gain 10% linkage per turn! " In which case I will cry at all the hours I've wasted. ^^;

Not sure which episode I'll play next. Hanbei's? Nene's? Mitsuhide's? Somebody else's? I guess it'll depend on what the requirements are for beating it. I'm not enthusiastic about doing another "conquer the entire realm" mission again -.-, so I'll probably pick one of the shorter missions. Mitsuhide's sounds like it could be fun. Although ... LMFAO, I just discovered this one on the Wiki and it sounds hysterical just from the title and the list of main characters alone:
Quote:
ランセ一の美女

クリア条件:中原7ヶ国統一
主人公:オイチ、ギンチヨ、アヤゴゼン、ノウヒメ、イナヒメ、カイヒメ、ランマル
"The Most Beautiful Woman of Rance"
Clear conditions: unify the seven kingdoms of the central plains
Main characters: Oichi, Ginchiyo, Aya Gozen, Nou-hime, Ina-hime, Kai-hime, and ... l o fucking l ... Mori Ranmaru. XD

Sounds like it'll be hysterical. And since I'll have every last one of those characters evolved except Ina and Ranmaru, too, it should be fun to see the fruits of my labors paying off. Especially if I get to battle as Oichi, who not only should have a Wigglytuff (I should really say goodbye to the worthless Jiggly and just evolve it already ^_^; ) but who should also have a Dragonite if this darn Dragonair would just evolve! @_@ Which reminds me, I need to figure out how you get Dragonairs to evolve. Because I totally did it effortlessly just now with this chump bushou who had a 63% link Dratini --> 64% link Dragonair --> 65% link Dragonite, so I've no idea why Oichi's Dragonair, who is above the 65% mark, hasn't evolved yet.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:57 PM   #80
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Status update:

The traveling merchant has refused to show his face. -.- As such, I've ended up training quite a few more bushous than I had originally intended on. I also have over 900,000 gold right now. (Reminder: the most expensive item in the game costs 10,000 gold.) The moment he shows up, I'll pretty much have enough cash to buy 10-20 of every single evolution item. Furthermore, that means that my assets carrying over into the next episode will be valued at approximately 450,000 gold -- I'm pretty much set for life so long as I don't blow the cash all in one go on worthless things.

Here's the list of bushous. This time it's pretty exhaustive, with me listing off every single major recruitable character in the game as well as my percent linkages with each of them:

Spoiler: show
-Evolved-
1. Hideyoshi (79.79%)
2. Hanbei (73.99%)
3. Kanbei (65.37%)
4. Oichi (67.50% on Dragonair, 59.08% on Wigglytuff)
5. Motonari (69.19%)
6. Motochika (73.57%)
7. Ginchiyo (71.85%)
8. Muneshige (65.67%)
9. Yoshimoto (56.10%)
10. Kanetsugu (63.82%)
11. Aya Gozen (76.20%)
12. Yukimura (70.66%)
13. Ujiyasu (63.08%)
14. Kaihime (67.08%)
15. Nene (68.48%)
16. Hanzou (71.75%)
17. Ieyasu (82.07%)
18. Nouhime (76.51%)
19. Okuni (69.61%)
20. Gracia (61.92%)

-Soon to Evolve-
none

-Not Really Going to Evolve Soon But Still ...-
21. Yoshihiro (44.64%) - meh ^_^;
22. Shingen (63.40%) - haven't done Kenshin's episode yet
23. Kunoichi (43.12%) - can't get Sneasel in this episode
24. Kenshin (64.15%) - haven't done Shingen's episode yet
25. Kotarou (48.50%) - meh ^_^; , also haven't had luck with finding Zorua
26. Masamune (36.35%) - haven't done his episode yet
27. Magoichi (37.17%) - meh ^_^;
28. Tadakatsu (62.47%) - can't get Beldum in this episode
29. Inahime (39.27%) - meh ^_^;
30. Mitsuhide (87.33%) - haven't done his episode yet

-Haven't Unlocked Yet Period-
31. Mitsunari
32. Kiyomasa
33. Masanori
34. Keiji

-Previously Unlocked But Not Featured In This Episode-
00. The Hero

Every single one of my evolved bushous has got their best link partner in their fully-evolved form, too, so this is really the maxed-out deal. In fact, with the exception of only four remaining bushous (Yoshihiro, Kotarou, Magoichi, and Inahime), I've gotten every single bushou to evolve that you can possibly get to evolve within Hideyoshi's episode. ^_^; At 21 of 35 (counting the hero) possible bushous, that's roughly two-thirds of the entire roster. Which means that from now on, whenever I recruit major characters in other episodes, I have a roughly 2-in-3 chance of getting an awesome character who's already fully upgraded and has their best possible Pokémon partner in its fully-evolved state.

It's too bad that the hero's name can't be changed once you create the file. If it could, I'd certainly change it and offer to share my save file with others so that they don't have to endure the same grind that I did.

It's also too bad that all of these link percentages will be reset the moment I beat the episode. *sigh* But at least I get to keep the evolutions. That's what this has all been about in the first place.

So yeah. I'm just skipping turns now, waiting for that peddler to show his face again so I can buy $900,000+ worth of evolution items from him and then go kick Nobunaga's sorry butt. Then I can finally download the DLC episodes, and then I can decide which episode to play next. Probably that humorous one I mentioned last night provided I can access it.
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Old 04-02-2012, 02:55 PM   #81
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So, I learned something interesting from this that I doubt most players have had a chance to discover yet ...

If you neglect a worthless bushou for too long, he'll get emo and pout. This is something I didn't have happen until around Year 5 in this file. (Keep in mind, I originally beat it Year 2 Month 6 but then opted to grind grind grind for bushou evolutions, so by Year 5 I'd grown quite tired of having everybody do something every turn. I'd started to just neglect entire cities.) Well, I discovered that if you engage them in at least one battle, they usually quit moping -- at least for a little while. It turns out, as I just discovered now when I skipped like 20 turns in a row to make that damn peddler show up , that they will desert you if you don't shower them with some attention. And their negativity tends to spread to other bushous in that same city. What's worse, the major bushous can also get emo like this, not just the crappy ones. So like, Magoichi (who I'd never really done too much with) got all emo and deserted. And once he left, Kunoichi (who had been in the same city) also got angry and threatened to desert. (The peddler showed up and I beat the game before she could, but still! ) Anyway, this is actually a kinda useful feature for those of you who find yourselves wishing that there was a way to delete crappy bushous so that you can have a city with just three excellent Pokemon in it and nobody else to drive up that senryoku score. (And believe me, if you're going to box Nobunaga in like I did, you will have occasions like this!) What I found more effective was to just dump a bunch of sacrificial lambs in a city, let Nobunaga take it, tell them they're all fired, and then take the city back myself with my good guys. But if you don't like the tedium of battling in a city like, say, Fukushi (the steel city), then the neglect-and-desert approach may be precisely what you want.

Also, I ended up bringing Oichi along for the final battle and, whaddya know, her Dragonair finally evolved. No idea why now, but hey, at least it evolved. So from now on if I ever get Oichi again, I have my choice of Wigglytuff (bleh) or Dragonite (sweet). And speaking of Wigglytuff ... good lord is that thing terrible. D: I'd never used it before but I decided to give it a whirl in battle so it'd register as owned and, well, ... Hyper Voice has to be one of the most annoying-sounding things in this entire game. Absolutely awful.

Okay, now to get those wifi episodes ...
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:59 PM   #82
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Blowing through these other episodes. I've gone and beaten three of the 1-star difficulty stages (the three with the boys Mitsunari, Kiyomasa, and Masanori) as well as one of the 2-star difficulty stages (Kenshin's) and have been pretty ruthless. Kenshin's game was over in three turns. The most cities you can invade on Turn 1 is two. I invaded two. I defeated two. The most cities you can invade on Turn 2, given a maximum successful Turn 1, is two. I invaded two. I defeated two. Turn 3 comes, I invade any city of my choice, I win, and I beat the episode. Mitsunari's was pretty ridiculous too. That was another Turn 3 victory with Aoba, Hajime, and Izumi falling to me in turn. (It's pretty broken to give a guy a Scizor and a Charizard for his opening duo. ) Kiyomasa's struck me as being at least as difficult as Kenshin's, though, so I question its 1-star rating; and Masanori's was actually pretty tough; even though I managed to beat it on Turn 5, I think it deserves to be rated three stars, at the very least two!

Now I'm on to Mitsuhide's. This looks like an interesting challenge. Basically you have 36 turns in which to win. This ought to be plenty considering that I originally beat Hideyoshi's episode on Turn 18 and it had a similar premise; but then again, people have reported finding it challenging, so who knows. Then again, there were kids saying they couldn't beat Takeda Shingen during Story Mode which leads me to think that some of the people playing this game are the evolutionary equivalent of the dog who gets his head stuck inside a cereal box and can't figure out how to get it back out.

Surprised to see that discussion of the game has stalled over on Serebii. I came out pretty critically against this game myself but even I'm still playing. Has everyone else already gotten bored with it? ^^;
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:56 PM   #83
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Now that I'm done trying to break the game , I am reminded how very much this game is what I said it was when playing Story Mode. "Baby's First Tactics RPG" is a good way to describe the leniency this game demonstrates. I'm playing Mitsuhide's mission right now, it's the top of Turn 7 (i.e. I've completed six turns), and ...
  1. I already own five cities (ice [default], dragon, ghost, steel, flying)
  2. I am running an offensive Army of One -- Akechi Mitsuhide and his Lapras, who is already at 40% linkage and is just an absolute beast. Nobunaga's Hydreigon does only 9 damage to me, and I have over 130 HP right now, whenever he does his Dragon Pulse. I on the other hand do 60 to 70 HP damage to him with one Ice Beam, netting a 2HKO that is just barely not a OHKO. Even accounting for his 2x weakness, I'm still doing over three times as much damage as he is.
  3. I have already twice upgraded one of the Pokemon territories back in Fubuki (the ice city) where I have my defensive squadron of five holed up. The intent is to summon Articuno ASAP.
  4. Every single other city I own (Ryuu, Fukushi, and Mitama) are ghost towns.
Despite this, the enemy is completely unable or unwilling to punish my audacity. It doesn't gang up 6-against-1 on my Lapras. It doesn't invade any of the sitting duck ghost towns I've got. It's just doopee-doopee-doo letting me invade one city after another and kicking everyone's ass with one Rambo of a Lapras. Which ... makes for a pretty cool mental image, I guess -- fanart of Rambo Mitsuhide with Rambo Lapras incoming? -- but it's something that most tactical RPGs would never allow me to get away with. Why end your turn doing nothing when you could at the very least invade a ghost town, claim it for your own, and even if you get kicked out the next turn it comes at no real cost to you? Why indeed. And yet the enemy A.I. has done it four turns in a row now.

That stated, "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall." I am one-sixth of the way done with the time allotted to me to complete this mission. And who knows what tricks await me as I delve deeper into the enemy's territory. The one really neat thing about this mission, but what an adversity it is!, is that nobody joins you. I have yet to get one single recruit out of any of these military skirmishes. The ONLY recruits I have are ones I spent a turn of my own, sitting out of combat, to go and fetch from the Pokemon hunting grounds. This is pretty much why I only have me, my daughter, and four random scrubs: because none of Nobunaga's defeated generals are defecting. This is night-and-day different from what happened in Hideyoshi's episode (where everyone was recruitable, even the boss's wife for Christ's sake) and it's pretty different even from what you came to expect after the Hero's episode, a.k.a. Story Mode or Episode 00, where you were at least able to recruit generals from the middle kingdoms. There's a real sense of loneliness here in this campaign and it's very befitting for Akechi Mitsuhide.

Not too pleased with Gothitelle. Pretty glad that the entire package (least favorite Pokemon, loliest character, one of the crappiest stat distros amongst any special bushou in the game) was all rolled into one like this since it means that in most any other episode I can just ignore Gracia and not have to worry about her fugly partner or her terrible performance. But here where she's my only general besides Akechi himself, I have to use her. And, wouldn't you know it, Gothitelle happens to be the only Psychic Pokemon I've come across all game whose move is Future Sight. Fucking A. This move can be strategically wonderful in the real games, yes, but in a tactics RPG, you almost never benefit from keeping the enemy alive one extra turn.

Last edited by Talon87; 04-02-2012 at 11:01 PM.
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Old 04-03-2012, 01:36 PM   #84
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This A.I. is really too generous. It pretty much let me walk all over it and so Rambo Lapras, who ended up weighing in at 82% linkage @ zero grinding on my part , put Nobunaga to rest once and for all on the eighth turn of Year 2, just a little bit past the halfway point for total time allotted to you to complete this mission. Articuno never did show up, so I took a second look at the Japanese wiki, wondering if, in my bad habit of not reading things fully, I had not noticed the column header for the episodes mentioning something about "cleared."

It mentioned something about "cleared." -.-

Specifically, it says "Episode You Have To Have Cleared" and then names the episode. So ... yeah. You know what this means? Mitsuhide Episode Run #2.

It's Year 1 Month 10 and conquest-wise I'm going a lot slower this time as I've only four kingdoms under my control (Fubuki, Ryuu, Fukushi, and Tsubasa) having just lost the only other kingdom, Mitama, I'd conquered so far this game. However, that's because I spent most of my turns trying to acquire new bushous who had cleverness scores greater than the abysmal 45s and 48s I found in my first few catches. -.- Once I had some decently good bushous, I sold off 10,000 gold worth of evolution stones and ...

Spoiler: show
... spent four turns upgrading the Pokemon areas in Fubuki. Never-before-seen mountain shows up, I send in Mitsuhide all alone, and lo and behold there's Articuno. To my surprise, he was only capable of a silver link with it. Upon catching it, I discovered that sure enough its max linkage is being reported as 70%. So I've gotta ask: if getting Mitsuhide to 87% with Lapras didn't evolve him , and if Articuno's max evolution possible is 70%, what's gonna happen if/when I level this bird up to 70% and Mitsuhide doesn't evolve? He'd better evolve. I'll be pissed if he doesn't. lol

Lapras has been a reliable friend with her bulk and powerful, far-reaching Ice Beam, but Articuno is a noticeable upgrade. Despite being a few percentage points lower right now than Lapras in acquired linkage, all three of her stats (attack, defense, speed) are higher than Lapras's. Some only just barely, but still. I think her HP might actually be slightly lower than Lapras's right now but that'd be the only one. In addition, the ability of flight in a tactical RPG like this is a godsend. Then there's her attack: Blizzard. While it doesn't hit anyone immediately in front of you (Ice Beam does), it hits up to six squares (Ice Beam can only hit three) and it still has that same wonderful Row 2 + Row 3 reach that Ice Beam does.
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:21 AM   #85
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This morning, I woke up thinking, "Y'know, I think I'm done playing this game. Nobody's replying on UPN. I've already had my fill of the game. I think I'll report in and tell them I'm done."

Groggy, I load up Serebii from my phone to see if anyone's posted in that thread recently. And ... son of a bitch. Lindsay was right:

The game's coming to the United States after all.

There goes several days' worth of gaming that I'll never get back. ^^; Great news for everyone else though, I'm sure.

From what little we can see of the translation, it looks like this could be either a localization hit or a miss and that we won't know until it comes out. Pluses include the fact that they kept the Japanese proper names intact and have spelled them correctly. (Shingen did not become Singen, for example, the way that Shin'ou became Sinnoh nor did it become Jerry the way that Isshu became Unova.) I'm Not Sure How to Reacts include the fact that they translated ランセ as Ransei, an allusion to the fact that the original name is a pun off of 乱世, ransei, which means "troubled times," a term you could very well apply to this period in Japanese history. That's a clever nod and all but ... it's name wasn't Ransei. ^^; It was Ranse. (Which I've been writing as "Rance" as a nod to Doppel and one of his favorite PC games.) So I dunno. And then we have the title change ... They took us from "Pokémon + Nobunaga's Ambition" to Pokémon Conquest! Yes, the title is descriptive and short. No, the title isn't doing Koei-Tecmo any favors. It makes it seem like this game is 100% Nintendo's when in reality it's a Nobunaga's Ambition series title for kiddies that has Pokémon cleverly thrown in. The name change all but guarantees that casual video gamers in their 30s and 40s who remember playing Nobunaga's Ambition as children will not be picking this game up when they see it on store shelves. It all but reduces the casual buyer market to those people who would be willing to drop money on a Pokémon spinoff title. But, as we all know, this wasn't the sort of game that casuals were likely to buy in the first place. ^_^; This is the very sort of title that only the most diehard Pokémon fans are likely to buy. (And the same thing goes for our brothers on the other side of the fence, the hardcore Nobunaga's Ambition fans.)

With an English release confirmed for June 18, it looks like a helpful guide is more in demand now than ever. That way you guys can avoid losing hours the same way I did.
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:50 AM   #86
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I'm not so sure. I'm EXTREMELY excited this is coming to US(which is why I'm now interested in this thread, but am not going to read the previous posts in fear of spoilers D=)

As for my comment, like I said, I'm not sure that the only people who will buy it are 'hardcore pokemon fans'

I have several friends who I have mentioned this game to, and described it as 'fire emblem, but with pokemon' since I've never heard of, nor played a 'nobunaga's ambition' game before this, and I assume my friends have not either. In fact, I could be totally wrong on my assumption, but the point stands that to consumers like me, that's what the game looks like. Several of my friends, none of which I would even classify as 'casual pokemon fans' are really excited about this game as well, because they feel like pokemon as a fire emblem style game would be incredibly enjoyable, and solve a lot of the problems they have with main pokemon rpgs.

I feel like my friends are not isolated in their opinions and, with good marketing, nintendo could easily gain the purchases of people looking for something like that. The biggest issue will be the fact that, after a year, the title is not a 3DS game.(honestly this still confounds me, and might be a reason even I, some one who is REALLY looking forward to the title, might pass it up)
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:08 AM   #87
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If you've told your friends that this is Fire Emblem but with Pokémon, you've more or less correctly described the genre to them but you've done them a huge disservice come Launch Day when they drop $40 on a title they take home expecting to have the sort of difficulty curve that Fire Emblem titles tend to have only to discover that this one has the mechanical depth of a puddle after a light spring rain. Kuno asked me to write a guide, and now that I know the game is coming out in the U.S. I might do it (NO PROMISES ), but I can tell you one thing that'll show up if I do end up writing something for the site: a compare-and-contrast between this game and other SRPGs like Tactics Ogre, FFT, Luminous Arc, Disgaea, and so on and so forth. Just to give you some sneak peek examples ...

Note: NOT SPOILERS. Spoiler tagging just because it's lengthy. You should DEFINITELY read this and point these things out to your friends so that they can make the most informed decision before purchasing this game. Especially if you want them to take your suggestions seriously in the future. ^^;
Spoiler: show
Most SRPGs: You get a movement step and a combat step. You can take the two in any order you like. So you can move and then attack, or you can attack and then move.
This Game: You get a movement step and a combat step. They come in that order. Period. You always, always, always have to move first.

Most SRPGs: You can place your team at the start of combat in any formation you like within a predetermined grid of indicated squares.
This Game: Your team is automatically placed for you based on the order in which they show up in your city and pre-determined grid spaces corresponding to each of those six slots. And no, you can't rearrange the order during city management. The game does it for you.

Most SRPGs: You get at least two attacks, usually at least either one physical and one magical or one general and one special/combo. A great many SRPGs allow you to use four or more different attacks per character.
This Game: You get one attack. Period.

Most SRPGs: For characters with atrociously poor movements (e.g. movements of only 2 squares), there are items later on in the game which boost their movement by 1 square. This is usually offered as a courtesy to the player, suggesting that what he loses in other potential buffs he now gains in mobility, allowing him to play with a favorite heavy character who would have otherwise been unplayable.
This Game: No such item exists. This renders almost every single Pokémon with a movement of 2 squares completely worthless. I say "almost" because there are a few exceptions who, depending on the stage, are simply too good to pass up. (For example, when playing defense in the steel city, Fukushi, Aggron starts off in the very middle of the stage and never has to move more than 2 squares per turn anyway. He's a really fantastic choice for that stage that should not be overlooked.) But in general, especially when you're doing offense as opposed to defense, the Pokemon with movement speeds of 2 are broken. And I don't mean "broken = fucking awesome" either. I mean that they don't work. They are dysfunctional.

Most SRPGs: There is a disincentive for allowing a character to die. These disincentives can range from the extreme (like in the Fire Emblem series where you famously lose the character for good) to the superficial (like a marginal loss of experience points gained from the fight).
This Game: There's no significant or discernible disincentive for allowing any one character to die. Your hero can die, your sidekick can die, any of your recruits can die -- so long as you end up winning the fight, even if it's just with one man left standing, they'll all still gain experience points as they normally would have. I've had characters die on me who, thanks to their prowess in battle, still gained more experience points than the guy who managed to stay alive. The only "disincentive" I think I have spotted, maybe, is that a Pokémon who otherwise would have evolved that turn will not evolve should it get KO'd in that battle. But that's a laughably small penalty, even smaller than the loss of experience points.

And so on and so on and so forth. I'll try and better organize these in an eventual guide (if I write a guide), but I hope this appetizer gives you some idea for how this game, as I've said a million times prior, is Baby's First Tactics RPG™. It simplifies everything. The only real choice a player has in this game is "Do I want to move? If so, where to? Do I want to attack? If so, who?" That's it. It's a very, very simple affair and it will likely not amuse hardcore fans of SRPGs unless they were also in this for the flavor (be it the Pokemon flavor, the Sengoku period flavor, or ideally both).
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:38 AM   #88
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This seems like I described, and honestly makes me more excited for the game. Both me and my friends have only ever lightly touched Fire Emblem, so none of us have really appreciated the depth. What you described is mostly the extent we've come to appreciate the game Dx

Thanks for the additional info though, I'll pass that along!
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:58 AM   #89
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I may have oversimplified (but not by much!) in neglecting to mention the two other things you can opt to do in any given turn (besides forfeit! ). These are, in addition to (1) movement and (2) attacking, (3) you can choose to use your Bushou's held item and (4) you can choose to use your Bushou's special power. The problem is, even these pale in comparison with other SRPGs. To explain ...

(Again, 100% safe to click and you SHOULD click.)

Spoiler: show
Most SRPGs: If you choose to use an item, it takes up your combat action for that turn. However, you are free to use items once per turn as many turns as you like during the battle. You find items in your Item satchel. It's a community resource that's accessible to everyone in your party.
This Game: The good news is that when you use an item on your Pokémon it doesn't suck up your Combat step for the turn. So that's cool, I guess. The bad news, though, is pretty much everything else. First of all, your Pokémon can only use the item its bushou is holding onto. So if your bushou is holding onto this game's equivalent of Choice Band and suddenly your Pokémon gets paralyzed, too bad: you can't fetch one of the seventy-two Paralyze Heals you have in your satchel. Second of all, your Pokémon is limited to the use of one item per battle. So say you have your bushou hold onto a Potion (heals 20 HP) and say you use it in battle. That's great. Now you have no item. Say you get damaged again and you want to heal up. Too damn bad: you already used your one item for this battle.

This policy makes it so that most of the items in this game are worthless. There were a few very special circumstances in which I opted to hold onto status heal items or potions instead of my usual, but 99% of the time I played this game, I would put a Mysterious Flute (lowest level), Koto (mid), or Drum (highest level) onto my bushou. These items increase the linkage your bushou and his partner Pokemon gain. (Think of it like a Lucky Egg from the main series games, then.) And this is pretty much, imo, the best item to have in the game. (More on why in an eventual guide if I make one.) There's rarely an incentive to take a Super Potion (50 HP) or Hyper Potion (200 HP) over the Mysterious Musical Instruments because, more often than not, if you can win a battle with a potion, you can win it without one; and if you can't win a battle without a potion, then you can't win it with one unless you get lucky. Case in point, by the time I was able to equip a Hyper Potion for the very first time, I replaced Aggron's Mysterious Drum with one and ... it was also the first battle in which Aggron managed to kill the enemy invaders rather than stalling them for a Time Out victory. In other words, the turn I was first able to buy Hyper Potion was the turn I officially quit needing potions. I put the drum back on him immediately following the end of that battle.

Okay, now let's talk about the next point.

Most SRPGs: Your special/combo is your most powerful move. Some games limit you to one use per battle. Others limit you to one use every so often. Regardless, your special is usually something that you will want to use to fell multiple enemies all in one go.
This Game: Like other SRPGs, Pokémon Conquest also has a special. They call it your Bushou Power. The problem is, even the very best of these specials pale in comparison with the specials you'd find in other games. Here are some examples:
  • Increase your movement by one one square for one turn.
  • Increase your attack by one level for one turn.
  • Increase your and your neighboring' allies defense for three turns.
  • Increase your attack, your chance for critical hits, and your ability to scale walls for three turns.
The examples got progressively better, right? Well, the last couple are ones you won't be seeing until late game (example 3) or post-game (example 4). What you're mostly going to see, even in the post-game but especially during the initial game, are powers like the first two I listed. And you wanna know something? Yeah, you probably already guessed it, but ... you're limited to using these bushou powers once per battle. So that's right: you get a special in this game just like you would in any other SRPG ... but the specials typically suck ("boost your attack for one turn! ") and they can only be used once per battle.

So yeah. Sorry for neglecting to mention these. But these are really all you can do. You can (in the order you have to do them) ...
  1. Choose to use your item. (One selection per battle.)
  2. Choose to use your Bushou Power. (One selection per battle.)
  3. Move around the map.
  4. Choose to attack targets in range with your solitary attack.

    Oh, and one more thing ...
  5. Pick up treasure if you're on the same square as a treasure box.
That's it.

Last edited by Talon87; 04-04-2012 at 11:02 AM.
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Old 04-04-2012, 11:10 AM   #90
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It still sounds like a fun game from what I'm hearing, I kinda expected it to be watered down, as it is a spin-off game, so no real disappointment there, it's actually far deeper than I anticipated/told my friends, believe it or not xD

Cool stuff. Thanks for the info, Talon!
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Old 04-04-2012, 11:48 AM   #91
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My SRPG experience is pretty much limited to Fire Emblem, but... a lot of those sound really intruging, but I've never seen them used myself.

Steps: This is a good point.

Layout: This is kinda meh for me, since I have the habit of not changing the layout anyways. But. I get what you mean.

Multiple moves: Wait, there are SRPGs where you get more than one move?! I honestly didn't know this. Could you list some? I'd really like to try one! ^_^

Movement: Eh, from my experience this is more a balance thing. Characters with low movement often have rough-as-rock defenses and powerful offensive stats as well. Then again, I can see how this wouldn't neccesarily apply in pokemon- shame that they didn't go with the multiple move idea you said earlier; Imagine how cool Trick Room would be to use in a game like this! :O

Disincentive: Well, you could say being unable to use the character for the rest of the battle is a (default) disincentive. But I see what you mean in that there's nothing to stop you from simply bashing into your opponents and hopping they run out of mon before you do- disinscentives kinda help with the 'S' in Srpg.



In totally unrelated news, but kinda demonstrates how little worth my opinion has: I just figured out what the 'J' in 'JRPG' stands for yesterday. ._.





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Old 04-04-2012, 01:21 PM   #92
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I'll direct you to the list of games I've mentioned numerous times in this thread and say "Check out any one of those if you want to get a good feel for what most of the games in the genre are like." See: this post and others like it.

I'd also recommend giving this article a look. Yes, it's quite exhaustive. But you can skip ahead to the section called "Popularity" and handpick some names from there. Read about them and if any of them interest you, look into getting a chance to play them somehow. I guess this is worth noting: from the Tactics Ogre article, "In March 2006, the Japanese Famitsu magazine readers voted on their 100 all-time favorite games, and Tactics Ogre was named number seven." Note that this is referring to Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together.

Since I'm feeling generous , some linked samples for you.

Tactics Ogre: the Knight of Lodis sample
La Pucelle Tactics sample

If you want to see more, look for them yourself. You're a big boy, you can figure it out.
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Old 04-04-2012, 02:29 PM   #93
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Thanks, I totally didn't see that you had listed some. XD

Oh, Lumineous Arc is a SRPG? Huh. I've heard good things about it, and I've been wanting it for a while. Hmm.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 04-04-2012, 03:06 PM   #94
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Not to be rude, but i found this thread from googling stuff on the game, and Talon, you SUCK at japanese. Your first few posts on the gameplay were almost completely off, which shouldnt have happened at all if you even knew a little japanese. Will you please god damn quit writing about games which you dont understand and stop leading other people the wrong way? Either go learn japanese or wait for the english version, gamegeek.
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Old 04-04-2012, 03:17 PM   #95
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Not to be rude, but i found this thread from googling stuff on the game, and Talon, you SUCK at japanese. Your first few posts on the gameplay were almost completely off, which shouldnt have happened at all if you even knew a little japanese. Will you please god damn quit writing about games which you dont understand and stop leading other people the wrong way? Either go learn japanese or wait for the english version, gamegeek.
"Not to be rude, but [supremely rude and wrong]." That's okay: I'll bite. What have I said that you take issue with?
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Old 04-04-2012, 03:41 PM   #96
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Woohoo! Glad ta hear its coming out here afterall! Even though strategy games aren't my thing, going by Talons posts I may do okay enough to get by and enjoy it instead of get frustrated and head right to faqs! ^.^
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Old 04-04-2012, 04:17 PM   #97
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Woohoo! Glad ta hear its coming out here afterall! Even though strategy games aren't my thing, going by Talons posts I may do okay enough to get by and enjoy it instead of get frustrated and head right to faqs! ^.^
Took the words right out of my mouth.
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Old 04-04-2012, 05:45 PM   #98
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Pokemon Conquest.

FUCK YES

THANK YOU NINTENDO
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:33 PM   #99
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Multiple moves: Wait, there are SRPGs where you get more than one move?! I honestly didn't know this. Could you list some? I'd really like to try one! ^_^
...um, 99% of them?

Should have expected "babby's first SRPG", but will probably pick it up anyway once it hits the states because I am a whore.
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Old 04-04-2012, 11:29 PM   #100
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"Not to be rude, but [supremely rude and wrong]." That's okay: I'll bite. What have I said that you take issue with?
some examples would be like "Another example of this game's simplicity is the fact that you only really get one attack and (at least in the early stages of the game) one special. For Eevee, for example, his attack is Quick Attack and his special is an agility-boosting move that lasts for one turn only."

if you understood japanese, you would know that its not a special for that pokemon, its a bushou's power.

next, "Early, early on in the game, when I tried to recruit people, I was told "You can't have more than six people! You're gonna have to let someone go!" So I did, and from that moment on, I figured"

if you understood japanese, its "You've gotta place the bushou in another nation!" instead of letting him/her go.

"To address Amras's concern from before ... yes, it looks like you only learn one move and one special still."

once again, its not a special...

"they're not on the field and can't be the target of enemy Pokémon attacks. What the bushou do do is lend their Pokémon a second ability"

finally?! now u know?!
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