Kaiji -Ultimate Survivor-

[unownmew]

I thought I'd post here when I finished Kaiji and read the whole thread, but, maybe not. >_>

I finished Kaiji up to 11, one episode per week, except for 1 slip (two in a week), a catch-up marathon (about 3 at once) to reach the same place Yuki was at, and a skipped week. I'm dieing to watch 12, this is some really good stuff. >_>

[Talon87]

Are you and Yuki on the same episode? What happened in the last episode you saw?

I just watched S2 Episode 24. Thoughts.

Spoiler: show

As an episode, it was much better than I'd been led to believe. People had claimed that this was another filler episode. FALSE! This is anything but filler. This played out like the final episode to the arc. Granted, it may not be. Granted, Kaiji still has hope. But the way this episode played out was, especially towards the end, very reminiscent of the time the Bog defeated Sakazaki. For all intents and purposes, I felt like this was a very solid "the end of the line" episode and that we reached the end of the line.

What more do you want from an episode of Kaiji?

• Ichijou's last defense was revealed
• it was explained what it is and how it works
• Kaiji tried to conquer it
• he even explained a plan he had to defeat it
• that plan was played out to its completion. (It didn't work.)
• the suits showed up to take Kaiji and Endoh away, just as we'd thought they would. (Not the taking away bit, necessarily, but certainly the showing up bit.)
• and there was even stuff I would have never expected, like Kaiji's breakdown and his conversation with Ichijou!

Now let's talk about that last bullet point ...

I really didn't like Kaiji's breakdown, but of course it's very real. When he fought against Ohtsuki, he was risking the loss of several months' worth of pay of his and of five coworkers. If he lost, it was going to royally suck, but it needn't have spelled out his or their dooms underground. In his fight against the Bog, on the other hand, Kaiji is betting his very life, for all intents and purposes, on this gamble. Not to mention he's also betting Endoh's and quite possibly Sakazaki's. (We haven't seen the little weasel in quite a few episodes. Where has he wandered off to? ) So the stakes are much higher. And so it makes sense that, in the face of certain defeat, he breaks down. I don't like it, but I'm saying it makes sense.

Now: why don't I like it? I don't like it because it feels like a total regression of Kaiji's character. It feels like he's regressed beneath Tissue Box Raffle Kaiji, who didn't plea with Hyoudou for his fingers, and that he's regressed all the way back to Espoir Kaiji. It was fairly pitiful to see him trying to negotiate a draw with Ichijou, suggesting that with the money he'd have from half of his spendings tonight he'd at least be able to pay off Endoh's debt as well as his own, fucking over the other 45s. How could Ichijou even accept such an offer? Even if he had wanted to, Hyoudou was watching. Everyone was watching. The casino's reputation would have been ruined if he had done that, but also Ichijou would have been sent to the gallows in Kaiji's place. That sort of action would never have been forgiven by Hyoudou or by Ichijou's own boss, the Vice President. So why even bother asking? Very pitifully desperate.

But that stated, even if I didn't like this scene, I still felt like it made the episode hella meaty. A filler episode this was not. This was a huge episode, I feel.

Adjusted predictions for next week and the week after:

Spoiler: show

Episode 25: Kaiji awakens a miracle and the balls go in and he wins. Somehow.
Episode 26: Epilogue.

But I've been wrong six or seven weeks in a row now so maybe I should just give it a rest.

[lilboocorsola]

I'm behind unownmew. Messed my numbers up at the point when he wanted to catch up and he ended up pulling ahead. Think I'm only on episode 09.

[AK2]

Originally Posted by Talon87

Are you and Yuki on the same episode? What happened in the last episode you saw?

I just watched S2 Episode 24. Thoughts.

Spoiler: show

As an episode, it was much better than I'd been led to believe. People had claimed that this was another filler episode. FALSE! This is anything but filler. This played out like the final episode to the arc. Granted, it may not be. Granted, Kaiji still has hope. But the way this episode played out was, especially towards the end, very reminiscent of the time the Bog defeated Sakazaki. For all intents and purposes, I felt like this was a very solid "the end of the line" episode and that we reached the end of the line.

What more do you want from an episode of Kaiji?

• Ichijou's last defense was revealed
• it was explained what it is and how it works
• Kaiji tried to conquer it
• he even explained a plan he had to defeat it
• that plan was played out to its completion. (It didn't work.)
• the suits showed up to take Kaiji and Endoh away, just as we'd thought they would. (Not the taking away bit, necessarily, but certainly the showing up bit.)
• and there was even stuff I would have never expected, like Kaiji's breakdown and his conversation with Ichijou!

Now let's talk about that last bullet point ...

I really didn't like Kaiji's breakdown, but of course it's very real. When he fought against Ohtsuki, he was risking the loss of several months' worth of pay of his and of five coworkers. If he lost, it was going to royally suck, but it needn't have spelled out his or their dooms underground. In his fight against the Bog, on the other hand, Kaiji is betting his very life, for all intents and purposes, on this gamble. Not to mention he's also betting Endoh's and quite possibly Sakazaki's. (We haven't seen the little weasel in quite a few episodes. Where has he wandered off to? ) So the stakes are much higher. And so it makes sense that, in the face of certain defeat, he breaks down. I don't like it, but I'm saying it makes sense.

Now: why don't I like it? I don't like it because it feels like a total regression of Kaiji's character. It feels like he's regressed beneath Tissue Box Raffle Kaiji, who didn't plea with Hyoudou for his fingers, and that he's regressed all the way back to Espoir Kaiji. It was fairly pitiful to see him trying to negotiate a draw with Ichijou, suggesting that with the money he'd have from half of his spendings tonight he'd at least be able to pay off Endoh's debt as well as his own, fucking over the other 45s. How could Ichijou even accept such an offer? Even if he had wanted to, Hyoudou was watching. Everyone was watching. The casino's reputation would have been ruined if he had done that, but also Ichijou would have been sent to the gallows in Kaiji's place. That sort of action would never have been forgiven by Hyoudou or by Ichijou's own boss, the Vice President. So why even bother asking? Very pitifully desperate.

But that stated, even if I didn't like this scene, I still felt like it made the episode hella meaty. A filler episode this was not. This was a huge episode, I feel.

Adjusted predictions for next week and the week after:

Spoiler: show

Episode 25: Kaiji awakens a miracle and the balls go in and he wins. Somehow.
Episode 26: Epilogue.

But I've been wrong six or seven weeks in a row now so maybe I should just give it a rest.

Spoiler: show

Talon, while I agree that Kaiji regressed (my favorite part of the episode), in the view of looking for a character who always grows and never turns back, I think it really enriched the episode and the show. It's not like he is a perfect hero who grows and learns from mistake, or like he is a Unova Ash episode 1, totally reset and clueless.

Just like the unnecessary and risky move he made with the paper tissue game, and his stupid decision to make his life worse after season one with his life-style, Kaiji has shown once again that he is a very real and relatable character. Yes, we don't WANT to see him groveling for a draw near the end of the second season, with everything rushing forward. We want to see a brave hero who plows through with full confidence. Maybe even a LITTLE bit of doubt.


But how many of us can say we would act like heros or even keep our cool in such a situation? I'd LIKE to think I wouldn't beg for my release and that of at least one "friend", and instead play to the last ball to save all of my friends and keep my dignity and a face of being noble. the truth is though, I have never had a prison-yard death sentence lingering over my head though and seen my hole of opportunity get smaller...smaller.smaller

Kaiji has shown that he CAN be a hero and even play a savior role. Hell, i'd even say he could inspire a RIOT in the underground. In the end though, when he is beaten down, isolated, and the cheers are silenced in the casino room over 5 or 6 soul-less suits, how can you blame the guy?

Ichijou is a f*cking @ssholle who is a fool for risking a loss by not taking the draw offer, and it exceeding cruel as he seems to know just how bad losing could be.

Other than that, aside from the wind scheme, not too much developed aside from the suits coming to close this party down....

I liked how Endou has shown that once you put on those shades you can still show human emotion!

[Talon87]

Spoiler tag, man! Spoiler tag! {spoiler} and {/spoiler} but with the square UBB brackets!

I do like that human aspect of it ... but I really dislike how:

Spoiler: show

he's regressed all the way back to Espoir-level pitiful Kaiji. It's, uh, pretty damn pitiful. You're absolutely right, though, about how human the whole situation is. No one writes like Fukumoto does. Even if Kaiji is ugly to look at like this, he's still our hero, and his behavior and actions are real, even if they are unsightly.

[unownmew]

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

I'm behind unownmew. Messed my numbers up at the point when he wanted to catch up and he ended up pulling ahead. Think I'm only on episode 09.

Sorry about that Blue. >.< Shall I wait for you to catch back up?


Somehow I made the correlation of what Kaiji episode I was on to other anime episodes, the numbers being the same, so it was easy to stay on track for me, because I'd just watch it around the same time I'd watch the other anime.


As for what happened,

Spoiler: show

Starside Hotel Human Racing. Don't push him Kaiji!

[Talon87]

"OSUNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!"

Spoiler: show

"DON'T PUUUUUUUUUUUUUSH!"

You're at the opening act to that story arc, unownmew. I'd liken it to ... the first match against Funai onboard the Espoir. You haven't seen your Kitani (Kitani? Kitami? I forget) moment yet, let alone your rematch against Funai. That's all coming up ahead.

What did you think of the first-ever Fukumoto female to be shown in anime? (Kaiji's female coworker)

Yuki, if you want to, since you've already reached the end of the Espoir arc more or less (from what we discussed) and since unownmew's two episodes (i.e. two weeks if he waits for you) ahead of you, go ahead and catch up by watching 10 and 11 if you want. And then you'll both be good to watch 12 this week. The whole point of "the Kaiji Experience™" ;) is the tension. Well, there's not too much tension during one act's conclusion and another act's introduction. It's all in the rising action, climax, and denouement.

But if you're going for the true experience , well, I guess unownmew's gonna have to wait a while for you. Or else you'll be two episodes off of one another if he doesn't wait.

[unownmew]

Originally Posted by Talon87

"OSUNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!"

Spoiler: show

"DON'T PUUUUUUUUUUUUUSH!"

You're at the opening act to that story arc, unownmew. I'd liken it to ... the first match against Funai onboard the Espoir. You haven't seen your Kitani (Kitani? Kitami? I forget) moment yet, let alone your rematch against Funai. That's all coming up ahead.

What did you think of the first-ever Fukumoto female to be shown in anime? (Kaiji's female coworker)

Really? It seems like it's almost over though. >_>
[spoiler]it seems, just one push from Kaiji and he wins, of course I doubt he will in the end, but, aren't they close to the end of the walk? or are there more walks? >_> [/quote]

First female? I was so used to seeing guys only, I didn't even notice. >>;
I registered she was a she, but it didn't occur to me to pay attention. From what little I remember she was, nice-looking, but nothing special.

But if you're going for the true experience

Which I ended up not doing complely. >_>

[Talon87]

Nah, you did. There were two-week lulls for us when Triad dragged their feet sometimes, followed by back-to-back releases and viewings. If you'd watched 4-5 episodes in a row, I'd say you broke the experience we had in '07; but anyway, it's not too big a deal. The point of it was to experience the show as we experienced it such that you could relate to our frustrations and our joys, such that you could fully appreciate Fukumoto's masterful tension-building whereby he makes the ordinary extraordinary, makes hours become days.

[McSweeney]

Just saw 24 myself. Yeah, this arc is dragged out too much, but OH WELL. I thought people over reacted to how drawn out Washizu Mahjong was (there was ONE truly bad episode. It's the one that ends with Ohgi saying, "Oh no, the tile that we need has gone to the enemy! THE ENEMYYYYYY!), and I'm willing to put up with it again for a nice payoff at the end.

Spoiler: show

I'm with AK2, I liked the part where Kaiji broke down and begged for a draw too! You gotta remember, as far as he's concerned, he's finished. He can not think of a solution. He's going back underground, and he's never coming back. No point in losing with honour; he's desperate to salvage ANYTHING out it.

My favourite part in a previous episode too, was when Kaiji was begging Endou to loan him more money. When Endou broke down and lamented his situation, Kaiji promised to buy him a beer underground, every pay day, for the rest of his life. "TWO BEER. Make it two beer ... and it's a deal."

I have to say though, the final defence of the bog is uncharacteristically over the top. Before, Ichijou was careful not to cheat too obviously for the sake of the casino's reputation, but this? The balls are CLEARLY veering off course when they're headed toward the hole. No one in the crowd is even going, "What?! This is bullshit! I'll never come here again!" I'd at least like to see Ichijou admit that he's screwed over the legitimacy of the casino for the sake of making absolute sure Kaiji doesn't win.

[Doppleganger]

Washizu match was one episode too long, and I noticed it only on my nineteenth re-watch of the series. It was when Ohgi was choking up about that dang Xia.

Moreover, since the Washizu match was DIPPED in metaphors, and you knew how long the match was supposed to be (I think the whole gamble was six han chan, and Akagi was well into the fourth when the pig hit the fan and exploded) things weren't so bad. Especially if you played in a real mahjong match back then and people were dead slow about making decisions in the end-game. I don't know how we could do it!

Kaiji doesn't have as many metaphors compared with Akagi, and even less are seen in the second season. Without the colourful imagery, we're taken out of the romantic aspect of the story, but that has the double-edged sword effect of making us particularly conscious of how things are dragging.

Moreover, the Bog's defenses are getting outrageous. Five defenses seems OK to me -

1. Three Kaiji was aware of right off the bat.
2. One Kaiji didn't know from simple observation, but could anticipate.
3. One that takes him by surprise.

The pacing was fine through #1. #2 required some suspension of disbelief and ultimately boiled down to a waiting game. #3 had to follow #2, so even if the pacing is once again pre-#2, we're still traumatized by the wait.

I think Fukumoto has the ingredients for a great arc, but went a little overboard in trying to mix in everything. I'm sure the manga was more bearable, but the manga apparently ending with The Bog as the final gamble Madhouse is stretching to put out a full 26 episodes. They could have done it in 22 or 24.

[big bad birtha]

I watched episode 24 as well.

Spoiler: show

I honestly didn't like it when Kaiji started bawling. Sure, having Kaiji stay ballsy throughout the entire thing would be more cliche, but good lord I thought Kaiji would be able to keep his dignity.

Also, why are they threatening to take him out when he still has balls in play? Even though it's almost impossible for them to get in, the balls are still in play, and it shouldn't be game over for him until they're all used up.

Well, atleast this episode actually progressed! I was really getting annoyed at how much they stretched everything out.

[lilboocorsola]

Unownmew, I'm caught up with you now (end of episode 11), so we can both watch 12 this week.

Spoiler: show

YEAH, PUSH HIM, KAIJI! ...Uh, I mean... Don't do it, man. =x

Oh, and random:

Spoiler: show

At first I thought the store manager was the old guy Kaiji rescued from the ship. Wouldn't that be an ironic twist of fate? ^^;

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by big bad birtha

Spoiler: show

Also, why are they threatening to take him out when he still has balls in play? Even though it's almost impossible for them to get in, the balls are still in play, and it shouldn't be game over for him until they're all used up.

I had the same exact thought. We'll just have to wait and see if this comes into play in Episode 25 or not. At this point, though, ...

Spoiler: show

... both sides have cheated (and gotten freak-lucky) so many times that it's sort of pointless to even bother honoring the house rules any more. So long as the house decides to keep running the air currents, the balls won't go in (let's say). So long as the balls are still on the tray, Kaiji's game isn't over (let's say). It's boiling down to a waiting game.

Speculation

Spoiler: show

Will the pipes magically declog? Or will the source of air get interrupted somehow? Like ... it would be crazy lucky for Kaiji if, due to the building sagging in the foundation, the pipe that supplies compressed air for the Bog is bent/cracked and as a result the air defense mechanism fails and in go the jackpot-winning balls. After all, either:
a) a compressed air machine in someone's office is running and is compressing air which is then piped into the Bog, or else
b) a pipe runs through the building with an offshoot that feeds directly into the Bog, and that pipe carries already-compressed air.

A is more likely than B since I've never heard of B before, but even with A, we know that there has to be a long-running pipe which connects the compressed air machine with the Bog because otherwise the machine'd have to be too close to the machine and you'd hear its f***ing loud motor running. So yeah. Assuming the machine is, say, two floors above or below them and is providing compressed air to the Bog via a pipe, what I'm wondering is, what if Kaiji already secured his victory with the "tilt the building" plan? Without even knowing he had done so? (Since he obviously didn't know about this air defense until it was too late.) What if the building is going to keep tilting ... and it wrenches the pipe? Either causing it to compress (so the air flow weakens to the Bog and in go the balls) or else shearing it (so the air escapes into the building wherever the break point is and again: in go the jackpot-winning balls).

But I don't know if this is right. I may be overthinking it. It may just be the case that we're waiting for something else to happen.

I think I mentioned it earlier, but maybe I just mentioned it to AK2 on the phone: did you guys notice that Sakazaki is missing? Where'd he go? I wonder if he's got anything to do with whatever has to happen next for Kaiji to win. Assuming Kaiji wins, of course, b/c (obviously we all know about this) how on Earth else would he get to go on a date with Mikoko at the start of Series 3 if he was X million in debt and locked away in the underground for the rest of his life? So yeah. We'll see what happens. We'll see what on Earth it's going to take for Kaiji to get out of this predicament.

[big bad birtha]

Wow. Episode 25 is already subbed. It looks like Doremi didn't even bother to wait for Nutbladder this week before deciding to go ahead and sub it. Anyway, thoughts on episode 25!

Spoiler: show

The episode overall was pretty cool. Though, it's kinda sad when I finish an arc, and instead of being happy he won, I'm just relieved the arc is finally over.

I just don't like how heavily luck played a part of everything. Sure, he did alot in order to get a chance to win, but it was still a fat chance that required several loans beyond what he originally had. Luck isn't GAR, luck is well....luck!

[Talon87]

Just finished 25 as well. Thoughts:

Spoiler: show

A good episode, but like bbb said, it kinda felt anti-climactic after all this waiting we had done. Not to mention that I totally called it with Sakazaki which, while kinda cool that I called it, completely removed any of the surprise or shock factor I was probably supposed to have had I not noticed he'd gone missing.

Probably the best part of this episode for me was seeing how terrible Ichijou treated Kaiji -- really, really sick -- only to then get screwed and get told the equivalent of a "FUCK. YOU. " when he tried to beg Kaiji for the same deal Kaiji had been begging of him.

LOL + surprised a little at Hyoudou's reaction at the very end. After letting things come this far, I'm surprised Hyoudou was willing to cut Kaiji off winnings-wise. Which is what it sounded like when he told the suits to have the machine quit providing payout balls.

I was actually kind of confused about the payout. I thought the reward was all of the balls on the hill? So why were payout balls coming out of the machine (like a regular pachinko machine would do) instead of the casino simply saying, "Okay, sir. We'll help you place all of these balls into crates now, and ..."? I thought that was pretty weird. Well, so long as Kaiji gets the 700 million yen he's owed, that's all that matters.

Now it's time to see how much money Kaiji, Endoh, and Sakazaki each get.

Was the 15 x 70 figure for Ichijou or for Kaiji? The way Doremi translated it made it sound like Hyoudou was raging at Kaiji and inferring that he wanted Kaiji's ass dragged back underground and placed there for 15 x 70 years, but obviously this makes much more sense if he was saying it for Ichijou instead since Ichijou's technically the one who lost them the 700 million yen.

And now for the epilogue episode.

And now for the last episode.

Wasn't too happy with Doremi's release this week though. I mean, sure: I'm super grateful that at least someone is still subbing this. And I'm super grateful that they got this release out so quickly. (A Tuesday!? ) But there were two problems I had with the file. First of all, where the heck were the OP and ED? Were they missing even from the broadcast version? I mean, why was the file only 21 minutes long this time? My second problem with the file is that there's a nasty encoding glitch at 3m44s which catapults you forward to 10m24s if you're watching this in VLC. And if you think that's bad, I can't even get the file to load in SMPlayer, so that's when you know something's up with the encoding. Bad encoding = bad file for archival purposes = incomplete archive = sad Talon. So here's hoping that they either issue a v2 or else that Underwater gets off their lazy butts and returns to subbing Kaiji rather than simply saying "Meh, we joined the party late anyway and it looks like Doremi picked it up in our stead, so we'll let them handle it."

[unownmew]

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

Unownmew, I'm caught up with you now (end of episode 11), so we can both watch 12 this week.

Spoiler: show

YEAH, PUSH HIM, KAIJI! ...Uh, I mean... Don't do it, man. =x

Oh, and random:

Spoiler: show

At first I thought the store manager was the old guy Kaiji rescued from the ship. Wouldn't that be an ironic twist of fate? ^^;

Wow, that was fast, I didn't even have to wait, though I would have been willing to. Well perfect. I'll probably watch 12 today or tomorrow, since I'm anxious to see what happens next.

Spoiler: show

Don't push him kaiji! It's your kindness and willingness to sacrifice yourself that sets you apart from the rest of those bloodthirsty dogs. It may not seem to do you any favors at the moment, but someday you'll benefit!

Really? Yeah, that would have been quite the ironic twist of fate.

[lilboocorsola]

Originally Posted by unownmew

I'll probably watch 12 today or tomorrow, since I'm anxious to see what happens next.

Preview Spoiler:

Spoiler: show

It's kinda unfair they showed the guy in front clutching the beam, since that dispels some of the tension by showing a. Kaiji doesn't push him, b. He's disqualified anyway.

Of course, there's still Kaiji's welfare to worry about. Don't fall, man!

[unownmew]

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

Preview Spoiler:

Spoiler: show

It's kinda unfair they showed the guy in front clutching the beam, since that dispels some of the tension by showing a. Kaiji doesn't push him, b. He's disqualified anyway.

Of course, there's still Kaiji's welfare to worry about. Don't fall, man!

I didn't even notice that! Thanks for ruining the suspense. >.<

Spoiler: show

I doubt Kaiji would push him anyway, though. But for argument's sake, who's to say Kaiji didn't push him, and that's why he's clinging on?

Of course, now Kaiji's stuck in a shoving match with the person behind him, Don't fall!! But make sure to cling the beam if you do, since that'll give you a chance to not break your legs when you let go, or scuttle on behind to get to the safe other side afterwards.

Edit: Episode 12
Turns out that part was nothing, this is the real deal now. Oh, that's intense. This is good.

Spoiler: show

Real Bridging, over a deep space, on an electrically induced beam. Yikes! DON'T FALL!!

I wonder what the clincher will be this time?

Spoiler: show

I'm betting after halfway across the Evil guy will announce that everything'll be a free-for-all with the first person getting everything.

OR

Since only those with the tickets will get money, he'll let the disqualified members on halfway through to fight through the ticket earners for the right to the prize instead.

Just because I know he's evil like that.

[lilboocorsola]

Originally Posted by unownmew

I didn't even notice that! Thanks for ruining the suspense. >.<

Sorry. ^^; That's why I put it in spoilers after all. I did realize your point afterward and considered editing it to "didn't (succeed in)", but was lazy and decided to simply hope you wouldn't notice the mistake. XD

Episode 12 = Oh shit. Talon, you weren't kidding when you said this is where things get seriously intense and I'll be dying to watch the next episode. o.x

Spoiler: show

Wonder what happened to the one guy (or rather the other competitors) during the last race?

When they were about to reveal the method of crossing, I realized what was meant at the same time Kaiji did. Although at the instant they cut the rope I briefly wondered if maybe they were panning to catapult them across. XD

Still a little confused as to why the electricity is necessary... Yeah, I guess it would "spoil the fun" if they all gave up and held on with their hands, but it still seems like overkill. ^^; Ah, well- the more drama the better, right? Though I have to wonder how they plan to clean up the messes left behind by the victims this time.

Originally Posted by unownmew

I wonder what the clincher will be this time?

Spoiler: show

I'm betting after halfway across the Evil guy will announce that everything'll be a free-for-all with the first person getting everything.

OR

Since only those with the tickets will get money, he'll let the disqualified members on halfway through to fight through the ticket earners for the right to the prize instead.

Just because I know he's evil like that.

Spoiler: show

Given the big wig's speech about how hard it truly is to earn money, I'm less inclined to believe he's actually evil and that he has his reasons for hosting these cruel, yet humbing games. Or maybe he's just such a magnificent bastard that I've completely fallen for his ass-pull lies for the sole purpose of watching people squirm. =x

Anyway, having said that, I doubt either of those scenarios will happen, though of the two the second feels more likely. So far they've never changed the rules mid-game. They've only allowed the contestants to discover loopholes that were set in place since the beginning for themselves.

Preview spoiler:

Spoiler: show

Interesting how the contestants all seem to be conferring with each other. Seeing as it's not a competition this time, I guess it makes sense to work together to formulate a strategy. The first shot of the hands exchanging tickets(?) makes me wonder if their plan is to give all the tickets to Kaiji, and send him over alone as a "sacrifice". Magnanimous that he is and given how he was referred to as a "hero", he might just volunteer to risk it all himself (or for a cut of the profits).

The problem is that if he falls, everyone loses. On the other hand, are most people personally willing to stake their lives on money if there's an alternate, safer method? Quite a gamble indeed...

Come to think of it, the preview didn't even show scenes of anyone crossing... Yet.

[Talon87]

One of the best arcs of the series ... has begun. You ain't seen nothin' yet.

[Talon87]

Just finished the final episode of Season 2. It was a really, very good epilogue episode.

Spoiler: show

AK2 had told me over the phone a couple of days ago that the way Series 2 ends in the manga -- and thus how it would also end in the anime -- is such that were we to never get any more Kaiji, it'd be an adequate place to call it quits. Having just seen the final episode, I have to concur: whereas the last episode of Season 1 begged for a Part 2 and left the door wide open for a sequel, the last episode of Season 2 more or less wraps things up in a very satisfactory way. Could more stuff happen? Why, yes, of course. (And we know that it in fact does.) But if they were never to roll out a Season 3, would I feel about Kaiji the same way I feel about Shenmue: an epic story that cuts out in the middle of things? No. Kaiji after the first season might have been boat buddies with Shenmue, but not after the second season. I suppose it might get back into the boat in the future should Series 3 of the manga end as cliffhangery as Season 1 of the anime did , but for now, I can honestly say that while I absolutely want more Kaiji, I don't feel like it'd be a travesty were they to finish things off here.

Now: onto the episode proper.

Endoh's betrayal is something I've been calling for weeks now. I dunno how much I've posted about it here, but AK2 can vouch for me on this one. Going back to late August / early September, whenever it was when the bathroom contract signing episode aired, I pretty much called it right then and there. I'm sure most of you did as well. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to notice that while Kaiji was very calm and scrutinized every square inch of his original contract with Endoh this season, he was rushed and foolishly trusted Endoh when he signed that second contract in the bathroom. Did I expect something as ridiculous as 10% interest compounding every 30 minutes? Heavens no. But apparently that's what happened, and Kaiji has to live with it. Place Endoh squarely back onto the list of series villains. It seemed like he'd joined the Light Side this season, but apparently not. While not quite as bad as what Andou did on the Espoir, this is still pretty goddamn awful and makes it difficult to like Endou anymore. (What is it with Fukumoto and people whose names end in -ndou? )

I had honestly expected Sakazaki to have split some of his winnings with Kaiji out of sympathy for his (Kaiji's) predicament. But apparently not. That stated ...

... it was probably for the best that he didn't. Because Kaiji proved what a gambling junkie he is later this episode when it was revealed that he blew the 600,000 yen he had left (US equivalent of roughly $6,000) on pachinko. >_>; C'mon, man. Are you for real? Did you seriously just blow 600,000 yen on one day of gambling? Youuuuuu son of a bitch. Your getting out of the underground was a miracle, son. Your defeating the Bog was a miracle squared. But you act like it was all a matter of fact, a certain occurrence, and are already back on (if not still on and had never left) the path which is surely going to take you back down to the underground if you're not careful. Dude: see a shrink. See somebody. Get this gambling addiction cured. 'Cause if the entire rest of the series hadn't made it clear that you have a problem with gambling -- it was always kinda vague -- the final portion of the final episode of Season 2 made it abundantly clear, even more clear than the Tissue Box Raffle in Season 1 did. (That could have just been greed about the potentially large payout he might have cheated Hyoudou out of. But blowing $6,000 on pachinko ... that's something entirely different. )

LOL @ the part where Sakazaki basically gives Kaiji his approval to wed Mikoko and Kaiji is like "NO EFFING WAY X_X" and Sakazaki is like "YOU LOVE HER! DON'T YOU!?" Oh God. XD

Really liked the part with the cynical-turned-sympathetic suit at the end. Loved the bit where he told his partner, "And not a word of this to the chairman." And the other guy is 100% seriously like "Oh, of course not." It was kind of like watching two Stormtroopers. I wonder if we'll meet that suit again. Would be neat if we did.

Hooray for Kaiji not even once caving in to the temptation to keep all the money for himself. That was pretty epic. I was expecting a Zawa Zawa scene out of that, with waves of greed washing over Kaiji but in the end Kaiji fighting them off and doing the right thing. The fact that he didn't even have such a Zawa Zawa moment -- the fact that he knew exactly what he was going to do from the moment the suits surprised him at the Hotel Akagi -- was pretty badass.

Speaking of Hotel Akagi ... anyone else catch that? I'm sure you did. Nice little easter egg, huh? I wonder if that hotel is actually owned by the Akagi (or his estate).

And so now ... I guess we put Kaiji at the back of our minds for now. And in a few years' time, we might be pleasantly surprised if/when they announce a Season 3. For now, any promises for a third season are conspicuously absent, unlike the built-in announcement for Season 2 that came at the end of Season 1's final episode 3½ years ago. I guess they don't want to make that mistake again. ^^; Especially if they're not certain that they can/will commit to a third season. But hey: for giving us Season 2, here's some mega-heartfelt thanks, Madhouse. You guys rock.

[lilboocorsola]

Watched episode 13.

Spoiler: show

First off, I know it was for the sake of dramatics, but it was kind of a dumb move on Kaiji's part to stomp his foot on the bridge when he got on. XP You could've killed someone!

And so it begins. As soon as one two go(es) down, the remaining's morale is shattered.

I'm inclined to think the players were drugged somehow, as those hallucinations were very vivid. As I mentioned before though, they've never changed the rules mid-game, so I doubt they would resort to such underhanded tactics.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

I'm inclined to think the players were drugged somehow, as those hallucinations were very vivid. As I mentioned before though, they've never changed the rules mid-game, so I doubt they would resort to such underhanded tactics.

Answer to your question

Spoiler: show

No, they're not drugged. Whether Fukumoto has gotten the psychiatry correct or not, that entire arc is meant to convey all manner of tricks one's mind might play on you while you're 40-odd stories above the ground standing on a bar that can't be much wider than 4 inches.

General answer, spoiler lite

Spoiler: show

Cheating occurs in just about every story arc in Kaiji.

General answer, I think it's spoilerish to warrant a separate tag

Spoiler: show

To you who have only seen one arc so far -- the Espoir arc, where the most prominent cheaters were the third parties Funai and Andou -- what you've speculated about must feel correct. And it mostly is ... for where you are right now.

Aside from intimating that things will change as you progress, I would like to point out that you have seen Kaiji already "cheat," in a sense, during the Espoir arc. His were mostly schemes that didn't violate any of the rules of the game ... but by that very same logic, so was the stunt that Funai pulled on Kaiji at the very start. So if we're going to straighten our heads and recognize that what Funai did is what we would ordinarily call "cheating," then it's really only fair to say that Kaiji has cheated as well:
- robbed a man of his jewelry in order to secure his freedom
- stacked the game in his favor (i.e. "cheated" the other passengers out of a fair shot at winning) by buying up all of one type of card

Anyway, if we want to define cheating as "violating the rules that are set out at the start of the game," ... no one ever technically cheats, though Kaiji comes the closest on a number of occasions. For the most part, Teiai has created a collection of grossly rigged games: so they're rigged, but little to no on-the-fly cheating takes place. Which is to say, they are so. totally. cheating in some of the arcs, but they're doing so using ONLY those things which they prepared in advance. To give a make-believe example with what you're watching right now ...
What Teiai wouldn't do: tell Kaiji that they're not going to unbolt the beams only to then go back on their word
What Teiai would do: have unbolted the beams in the first place. Kaiji complains that the beams weren't bolted down but Teiai simply smiles and says "Hey: you didn't ask. "

Or to give another example by way of Monopoly ...
What Teiai wouldn't do: yoink the Boardwalk property deed out from Kaiji's hands and say "MINE! XP"
What Teiai would do: before the game even starts, deal themselves two extra $500 bills, ask Kaiji "Look good?", Kaiji stupidly fails to notice what they did and says, "Yeah, let's play," and then once Kaiji realizes they cheated says "Tch, tch, tch, no point in crying about it now, Kaiji-kun."

[lilboocorsola]

Originally Posted by Talon87

Spoiler: show

Anyway, if we want to define cheating as "violating the rules that are set out at the start of the game," ... no one ever technically cheats, though Kaiji comes the closest on a number of occasions. For the most part, Teiai has created a collection of grossly rigged games: so they're rigged, but little to no on-the-fly cheating takes place. Which is to say, they are so. totally. cheating in some of the arcs, but they're doing so using ONLY those things which they prepared in advance. To give a make-believe example with what you're watching right now ...
What Teiai wouldn't do: tell Kaiji that they're not going to unbolt the beams only to then go back on their word
What Teiai would do: have unbolted the beams in the first place. Kaiji complains that the beams weren't bolted down but Teiai simply smiles and says "Hey: you didn't ask. "

I assume Teiai is the gamemaster?

Spoiler: show

I was referring more to the idea of "rigging" than "cheating" on his part. However, while he has clearly intended and introduced dangerous situations late in the game, the responsibility of invoking them still falls on the players. So far he has always given them a "choice": Push or don't push. Cross or don't cross. It's not like he suddenly pulled out a gun and started shooting at them to get them to fall.

Modifying your example, it would be like if Teiai didn't reveal to the players at the start that the bridge was electrified, yet it arbitrarily struck the first unlucky soul to set hand on it. (By the way, how come when one person gets electrocuted the current doesn't travel through the entire beam and knock everyone else off? I thought that's how it would work, hence one person crossing at a time, i.e. Kaiji, would be safer.) However he laid out all the pitfalls beforehand, and still gave everyone a chance to decide whether to participate.

Going one step further, I think we can both agree that he would never electrocute the bridge on a whim without warning - which would be more in line with the poison theory. Basically, my make-believe example would look like this:
What Teiai wouldn't do: not tell Kaiji they're going to unbolt the beams and does so in the middle of the game
What Teiai would do: allow players to realize they can achieve some offered incentive by unbolting the beams themselves. Kaiji complains about cheating but Teiai simply smiles and says, "Hey: it's not my fault. You guys are the ones who decided to fight amongst yourselves."

Rather, he encourages cheating, but avoids the incrimination of "wrongdoing" himself. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Teiai rarely "cheats" the players out of a win personally, by your definition.

Of course, I don't deny the guy's a filthy lying bastard. I just don't sense that it's in his interest to stoop low enough to directly manipulate the players' fates. It seems more like an experiment; a test of the human condition. How people think, behave, and respond to these types of situations. He's the mad scientist, and Kaiji and co. are simply his guinea pigs. Put 'em in a maze, and they're free to run on their own. There may be dead ends and traps laid out ahead of time, but once the game begins he himself won't lend a hand to steer them in any direction - neither towards nor away from ruin.

P.S. May start Steins in a bit.