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Old 01-21-2014, 11:03 AM   #6126
Adamant
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I really dislike translation notes unless there's no other way to handle the scene, and when it comes to misunderstandings caused by characters misinterpreting something that was said, my philosophy is absolutely that the subtitles should represent the misunderstood line as something that could be misinterpreted in a similar way.

That said, I'm definitely happy to get criticism or feedback on the way we handle troublesome lines like these from people who actually understood what was being said. These kind of lines are always going to be largely about personal preference and coming up with things we feel work.

For the record, our entire debate around how to translate this was literally just
Quote:
<Sushi> also thinking about something that shows the same level of ambiguity as tsukiau
<Adamant> yeah... that preview will be tough
<Adamant> "If I win, you'll have to be with me for a while", or something?
<Sushi> yeah something like that should work ^_^
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:20 AM   #6127
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Likewise, I tend to not like in-page notes or onscreen notes, preferring end notes at the end of the chapter or file. That stated, I do appreciate notes. As a sometimes translator, it frees me to be less OCD during the story proper and to get off my chest what is going on with the original Japanese later. As a frequent viewer and reader, I appreciate the helpful cultural or linguistic notes both for when they help me as well as for when they help my less fluent peers. But no, we're in agreement that the translation which can get the message across without need for a note is best. Which is why I said the note was optional. 'Cause honestly, I think my 1 and 2 already render the double entendre obvious given the context.

Yeah, wordplay is always one of those tough things in translation. There was a particularly tough one in this one chapter I worked on last year where the joke worked beautifully in Japanese but just flat out couldn't work as is in English -- as it relied on Japanese's prolific omissions of subject and direct object, something which just doesn't work in native English. I ended up translating that one as I recommended above: I offered what the receiver misunderstood first, and then later when it was revealed what the speaker had really meant, I offered it that way instead. At the bottom of the cel, "see page 19" or some such, directing readers to the translation notes page.
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:34 AM   #6128
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Which is why I said the note was optional. 'Cause honestly, I think my 1 and 2 already render the double entendre obvious given the context.
While it would probably make the viewer think "Oh, so in Japanese "to go out with" can also mean to spend time together non-romantically or something", it still creates this weird disconnect where the viewer is asked to pretend this is how it works in English too, even though it doesn't.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, but I still think coming up with something that can carry both meanings in English as well is the best solution, even though it might've made Serena seem like she was overinterpreting a little more than the writers really intended.


Pretty curious about how the dub will handle this, actually.
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:44 AM   #6129
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"Y-you like jelly donuts!? But he's my jelly donut ... "

And now I'm reminded of this image macro and laughing at how it could apply to Ash x Serena.

No, I agree, mine has its rough edges too. I just ... feel the choice of words you guys went with was too strong on the "accompany me! " side that it lost the double entendre of "go out with me / be my boyfriend! ", thus making Serena's freakout ... odder. ^^; Or, like I said, super clingy.

Oh well. Not worth worrying over. Not on this episode. ..........
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:53 AM   #6130
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I thought of that as a "lose if you do, lose if you don't" line. I didn't really mind either way, since I heard the word so much I kinda knew both meanings. I think TL notes are nice at times to let the watcher learn a little bit, but I also know that TL Notes are the "out thing" to the cool kids out there. Once again, lose if you do, lose if you don't!

For the episode itself, it umm...it didn't irritate me? Well actually it did in some points. It was a really meh episode. I didn't think it was really bad, just lackluster and dumber than usual. For positives....Nymphia was cute atleast? It makes me want to check out the special...whenever it releases.
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Old 01-21-2014, 12:23 PM   #6131
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We did use translation notes to explain the jokes behind Sonansu and Maaiika's names, since they don't carry over into English at all, and you know there's going to be dozens of plays on their names in episodes to come.

If at all possible, we try writing the line in a way that makes sense in English without the need for external notes, though, even if it doesn't end up being a straight word-for-word translation. While there's nothing wrong with learning things as you watch, the meaning of random words that just happened to be used in a wordplay isn't exactly the most useful thing you can pick up from watching anime.

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It makes me want to check out the special...whenever it releases.
Soon.
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Old 01-21-2014, 12:38 PM   #6132
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Yeah, watching Johto in Japanese several years ago was a roller coaster experience for me. It had its highs ... and oh did it have its lows ... but one of the things that I loved so, so much about Japanese Johto was all of the wordplay with Wobbuffet's name. Completely, completely lost in translation , but gloriously preserved in its original Japanese, I was astonished to see just how many of the pointless "WOOOOOOBBUFFET!" moments from my childhood viewings of 4Kids Johto had actually been "Thaaaaaat's right!" jokes in the original.

Nowhere was watching Johto raw more rewarding in this regard than the debut of Wynaut. I didn't know/remember his Japanese name before he made his appearance in the show for me (circa 2012?), so nothing could prepare me for the hilarious and adorable Abbot and Costello act between those two. "Is that so? :o" "That's so! >o" "Is that so? :o" "That's so! *sage nod*" "Is that so ..." "That's so." Was disappointed the little cutie didn't stick around longer. I know it's perhaps childish, but I love the Wobbuffet wordplay. A shining light in the dark tunnel that was most of Johto's worst filler.
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:49 PM   #6133
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Hatamora
Oh holy fucking Jesus Christ episode 3 was excellent! Partly because someone from a group of people I hate is put in their place! Also because of several other things. Check this shit out as soon as possible!
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Old 01-21-2014, 09:01 PM   #6134
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Originally Posted by big bad birtha View Post
Hatamora
Oh holy fucking Jesus Christ episode 3 was excellent! Partly because someone from a group of people I hate is put in their place! Also because of several other things. Check this shit out as soon as possible!
Paused halfway, got distracted by other things. Will pick up again as soon as possible though. =O
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Old 01-22-2014, 04:35 AM   #6135
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Hamatora is indeed excellent! Who's making the thread?
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Old 01-22-2014, 07:34 PM   #6136
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Fantasista Doll: Just finished Episode 07. It only took me half a year.

Komachi's voice sounded awfully familiar to me out of nowhere -- at times I wondered if it might not in fact be Satou Rina -- so I looked her up and ... Nazuka Kaori. The name didn't ring a bell, but her credits include Kisa the Tiger (Fruits Basket), Nunnally (Code Geass), Subaru (.hack//SIGN), and Chiriri (Bottle Fairy). Kinda makes sense now, I guess ... but I dunno, I was getting some strong Minami Haruka vibes at times. *shrug*

This series is such a clear example of a "kids show" made for kids show-loving otaku. (Or at least in theory.) This episode's winner? Madeleine vs. the limbo pole.

Series is cute but remains rather unimpressive. Hoping things pick up in Episode 08!
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Old 01-25-2014, 10:38 AM   #6137
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First character CM for Mekaku City Actors is out. (Like F/Z, SHAFT is releasing one a week until the air date. Just a static profile shot for now. Also heard there's supposed to be a 45 second trailer? Might've been referring to this.)

So they decided to use Headphone Actor for the BGM... The facial design is a bit odd since it's different from Shidu's, but I guess I'll get used to it.

Ene stop speaking so fast.

Some other info about the series:

Jin is in charge of the script and wrote new songs for the OP/ED. Shidu will handle the storyboards for the opening theme, and create the ending animation.

Last edited by lilboocorsola; 01-25-2014 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 01-25-2014, 01:54 PM   #6138
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Disclaimer: don't click the first YouTube link if you haven't played Ever17 yet.


Ever17's "Karma" popped into my head just now. A relisten of LeMU 遙かなるレムリア大陸 dutifully followed. :p

Crazy to think that this game is 11˝ years old now. Crazier still to think that it was 6˝ years ago when Doppel persuaded bbb and I to play it.

Posting about it here instead of the Ever17 thread 'cause I don't want to bump the thread for a comment like this, but ... hmm. Perhaps a bump lies in the thread's near future.
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Old 01-25-2014, 02:12 PM   #6139
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Coincidentally I've been thinking about it as well, although that's mostly because I've been focusing on my VN (although, being lazy I haven't written anymore of it lately). Related to what Talon brought up in DR, what I liked about Ever17 compared to more modern anime/manga and VN is how the characters aren't really stereotypes, or if they are they're rather soft stereotypes who aren't strongly influenced by their professions (which is an indirect indicator of character, since certain personalities are predisposed toward specific professions).

I mean, let's compare it against Shinigami no Kiss wa Wakare no Aji. The sister in SnK is very clearly a tsundere. That is the biggest character trait and it doesn't go away. Less prominent is her sarcasm, soft-spokeness and perverted tendencies. She has a lot of character development, but not a ton of originality. I think the most original idea is she's actually trying to balance the idea of her brother as a boyfriend and a brother, whereas other stepsiblings are usually justified in-story as "never seeing him as a brother" and "wanting to be recognized as a woman". It's a weird, almost dissonant settlement, but I can't say it's not original, because it bucks the standard approach that has become an industry staple.

Sora is smart, young, and an engineer. Takeshi is playful, Tsugumi is withdrawn, Kid is well-behaved, Coco is childish. These characters have some traits but nothing too strong or overbearing. That's the approach I'm trying to take with everyone in my story who gets serious focus (with the exception of the Serpent Trio).
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Old 01-25-2014, 02:51 PM   #6140
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To be fair ... (Ever17 soft spoilers)

Spoiler: show
Tsugumi is pretty tsundere. Heavy on the tsun early on -- indeed, exclusively the tsun early on -- and then a morph into a dere later. Whereas most modern tsunderes are of the Kugimiya Rie flavor ("B-Baka jya nai no!? Anta no koto nanka ga ... ") who are outwardly tsun but inwardly dere right from the get go (and who do a terrible job of concealing it, to the delight of fans), Tsugumi represents a more classic tsundere who we do still see in anime and manga: the woman who is cold as ice initially but, once you win her heart, is all snuggles and kisses after.

But I agree with you that, in the characters vs. caricactures divide, Ever17 falls pretty cleanly on the side of true characters. None of them are defined by any one attribute. You can't really point at any Ever17 character and go "Oh yeah, he's The Gay Guy™." "Her? Oh, she's The Token Foreigner™." The least developed character in the game (Coco) could probably be labeled as "The Loli™", but even that doesn't seem right since Coco doesn't really do "loli"ish things that are intended as bait for lolikons. She's just a kid. And while she behaves like a child, she doesn't behave like a caricature of a child.
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Old 01-25-2014, 06:26 PM   #6141
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That feel when you admired Sora for being a "smart older girl" who was age 22, then look in a mirror and realize you are now 4 years older than that, and find 22 "too young".
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Old 01-26-2014, 03:21 PM   #6142
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Not much to really say about this week's shows, but I guess I have a few things to get out of my system?

I dropped Super Sonico, which is pretty much obvious. I also dropped Space Dandy, because even though the show was able to superficially catch me the first episode, that quickly wore off.

Inari, Konkon, Koi Iroha
Episode 2 has been watched. This show continues to be a little dumb, but very charming. While I can't say I cared for the development at the end, I still enjoyed this episode. Also that embrace!

Nisekoi
SAO in normal school episode 3 has been watched! Speaking of which, it seems HorribleSubs put Nisekoi on top for their "recommendations" for this season. It goes to show I was 100% right in the fact that the writing is on the level of SAO if THOSE people love it as much as SAO! The episode itself was....I dunno. The show continues being dumb and cliche as hell, but not enough to make me want to drop it. Also, I wonder what VAs feel like when the studios make them spaz out like retards? They must be annoyed, because I get annoyed hearing them doing it.

Sekai Seifuku Bouryaku no Zvezda
Episode 3 was retarded. Let's try to view this episode on the writer's side. When I saw this episode, I saw nothing but a child of a writer make a big rant about something. That's all this episode was. I don't smoke, nor do I know what smoking laws are like in Japan, but even I felt offended when I watched this episode. This episode was nothing but "SMOKERZ R BAD! KILL THUH SMOKERZ!". I get that this show is supposed to be a little dumb and over-the-top, but I don't think there's an excuse for this kind of childish writing. If I see another episode like this, I'm dropping the show.
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Old 01-26-2014, 05:09 PM   #6143
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Sorry to leave you hanging, bbb. :\ I still haven't started too many new series nor have I gone back to the shows I was watching in Fall 2013. I thought about marathoning the episodes I have yet to watch of Nagi no Asukara earlier today, but I ended up having to do some small car repairs instead since today was the only day in a two-week stretch (one week backwards, one week forwards) with high temperatures above freezing. Just got inside from doing that, in fact.

Shows still on hold from Summer 2013:
  • Fantasista Doll (Episodes 8 onward)
  • Rozen Maiden: Zurückspulen (just the final episode, which was more of a teaser intermission between Part II and Part III than anything else anyway)
Shows still on hold from Fall 2013:
  • Nagi no Asukara
  • Gingitsune
  • Golden Time
  • Kyoukai no Kanata
  • Galilei Donna
  • Suisei no Gargantia OAV
Shows on hold for Winter 2014 but I plan to check out eventually:
  • Noragami
  • Nisekoi
  • Gin no Saji S2
  • Chuunibyou S2 (for probably only one episode)
  • others that I'm forgetting, I'm sure
The only shows I think I'm currently, actively watching are Hunter x Hunter 2011 and Pokémon XY.
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Old 01-26-2014, 05:17 PM   #6144
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Hey BBB, did you ever read the Nisekoi one-shot I linked you? What did you think of that?
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Old 01-26-2014, 11:13 PM   #6145
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Lil' Bluey

The funny thing about the Garfield revival in the "Worst Cartoon" thread is that I just finally finished watching Poyo Poyo today. Forgot how cute that show was.

Maybe I should check out Chi's Sweet Home at some point.
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Old 01-26-2014, 11:15 PM   #6146
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Regarding Chi's Sweet Home: just make sure you understand that you're going into a show whose target demographic is probably children ages 6 and under. And more like 4 and under. It's a damn cute show, and it has stuff that will go over little kids heads but make adults laugh or cry. But at the end of the day, it is an incredibly simplistic show for a very, very young demographic.
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Old 01-27-2014, 12:15 AM   #6147
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Fun fact: for the longest time, I thought Chi's Sweet Home was a Chobits OVA.
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Old 01-27-2014, 03:26 AM   #6148
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Oh my god, you guys.

Let me say this that I'm irredeemably squeamish. I can't stand awkward scenes, or social retardedness, I find no enjoyment in seeing someone squirm like that. It just aggravates, and drives me nuts, because I have no control over the character pooping the bed. Perhaps worse of all is where the character doesn't improve much over the course of the story. From the general preferences of the UPN cast, the best analogy I can come up with:

BPK : Mecha
BBB: Hyperactivity
Talon : ???
LBC : ???
Kaisap: ???
Midge: ???

:: Dopple : Social Awkwardness

I mean, I don't hate it, but it's just unfun. I feared Watamote for a similar reason, it's the kind of story that would only grief me, and make me miserable.

The story I'm reading right now is driving me nuts. Maybe it's because of how the manga was introduced, and because of the dissonant premise and process my mind's breaking. I hope to gosh there's resolution soon because my body can't handle it. ;_;
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Old 01-27-2014, 02:05 PM   #6149
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Hey, Yuki? Guess who's a Kagerou Days fan?

Namie.

Guess who her favorite character is:

Spoiler: show


You can probably expect much Kagerou Days fanart out of her once the anime begins airing, I'll wager.
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Old 01-27-2014, 02:17 PM   #6150
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Hey, Yuki? Guess who's a Kagerou Days fan?

Namie.

Guess who her favorite character is:

Spoiler: show


You can probably expect much Kagerou Days fanart out of her once the anime begins airing, I'll wager.
You told me this a while ago when she drew a yaoi pic. XP But thanks.
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