Nuke the sun?

[Doppleganger]

Kind physics folks,

I heard a historical debate case with the resolution "let's nuke the moon" and the counter plan, "let's nuke the sun" which was perm'd, but the real question is on disadvantages of "nuking the sun" - brought up, number one was "nuking the sun would cause a chain reaction that would have the sun go super nova".

Uhh..don't nuclear reactions occur inside the sun anyway? How would nuking the sun cause a super nova I wonder I wonder? Confirm/deny if you would... >_<;

[Lunar Delta]

How would you get a Nuclear missile close enough to the sun in the first place? It would stop functioning before it even penetrated the outer layers.

Anyway, stars are fueled by nuclear fusion, so they're basically very large ongoing hydrogen bomb explosions. Detonating a nuclear bomb inside of a star's colossal mass wouldn't have any effect at all on the star as a whole. How could it?

Supernovae are caused when a very large star runs out of fuel to sustain itself, and all of the star's mass falls inward on itself. When the core reaches a certain density, a shockwave is formed and the matter rebounds outward in a huge explosion. I fail to see how a nuclear bomb could cause all of that.

[Doppleganger]

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek

How would you get a Nuclear missile close enough to the sun in the first place? It would stop functioning before it even penetrated the outer layers.

It wouldn't even reach the sun, let alone penetrate anything. That was brought up as a refutation on the opp's argument, but the "science" of super novae was of grave concern to me.

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek

Anyway, stars are fueled by nuclear fusion, so they're basically very large ongoing hydrogen bomb explosions. Detonating a nuclear bomb inside of a star's colossal mass wouldn't have any effect at all on the star as a whole. How could it?

Supernovae are caused when a very large star runs out of fuel to sustain itself, and all of the star's mass falls inward on itself. When the core reaches a certain density, a shockwave is formed and the matter rebounds outward in a huge explosion. I fail to see how a nuclear bomb could cause all of that.

I agree, the argument struck me as fishy. Thanks for the elaboration.

[Loki]

Disclaimer: I am not a physicist. I am merely using the knowledge I remember from physics class.

I don't see why a missile wouldn't reach the sun. A body in motion stays in motion until an equal an opposite force stops it. If you plan a trajectory correctly, I don't see why a nuclear missile wouldn't hit the target. If your argument is that the warhead would lose function during this trip, then by all means, fine.

Anyway, I think the idea of a nuke hitting the sun causing a super nova was the belief that a nuclear blast would blow away enough of the sun's mass to cause a chain reaction that might result in a super nova, but I highly doubt a nuclear bomb has that much power.

[Lunar Delta]

How would blowing away a star's mass cause a supernova, when a supernova is caused by the star's mass rapidly falling in on itself? If anything, you'd help to prevent a supernova.

As for the bomb reaching the star, as long as nothing blocked it there would be nothing stopping it from actually getting to the sun. However, it would burn up or stop functioning long before it ever hit the photosphere.

Theoretically, there is no upper limit on how big you can make a hydrogen bomb. If you had a lot of materials and a lot of time, and a lot of advanced technology, you could build a bomb as big as a star. Perhaps then you could destroy one, or at least blow away all of the outer layers.

[Doppleganger]

Originally Posted by KoalaDevourer

I don't see why a missile wouldn't reach the sun. A body in motion stays in motion until an equal an opposite force stops it. If you plan a trajectory correctly, I don't see why a nuclear missile wouldn't hit the target. If your argument is that the warhead would lose function during this trip, then by all means, fine.

Lots o' stuff could happen. It could hit an asteroid, burn up, the detonator could fail, there might be another kind of malfunction that prevents the necessary fission and fusion to create the explosion, even if it happened it's not like it could do much damage in outer space, etc.

Originally Posted by KoalaDevourer

Anyway, I think the idea of a nuke hitting the sun causing a super nova was the belief that a nuclear blast would blow away enough of the sun's mass to cause a chain reaction that might result in a super nova, but I highly doubt a nuclear bomb has that much power.

Outside of another super-nova, nothing would have that much power. We blow our own planet several times over, but not something big like Jupiter, let alone the sun.

...

What Namek said.

[ajnrules]

Consider this. A million nukes can fit inside the Earth. A million Earths can fit inside a Sun. A nuke can probably fuck up the Earth's climate, but won't do much to the actual planet. And the Sun? Don't even think about it.

[Sylar]

Not really, but kinda relevant. Also, FUNNY.

[Talon87]

Not relevant at all: I just signed in to seek help for my video seeking woes, but since I'm here breaking my silence (yet again), I just thought I'd ask how you're doing, Doppel. I don't remember where you live or where your University is located relative to San Diego, so ... anyway.

[Jamil]

The sun's heat intensity within 10000000 Km or more is such that it can melt tungstan in an instant. If nukes are launched the radioactive materials inside would rise in temperature and be extremely unstable thus exploding in an instant. So we need a nuke with the strongest metal or alloy that actually never existed.

[Lunar Delta]

Originally Posted by Jamil

The sun's heat intensity within 10000000 Km or more is such that it can melt tungstan in an instant. If nukes are launched the radioactive materials inside would rise in temperature and be extremely unstable thus exploding in an instant. So we need a nuke with the strongest metal or alloy that actually never existed.

The Sun's corona is incredibly hot, but it is also incredibly diffuse. The bomb would not be burned by it. The surface of the sun is only a few thousand degrees F, so perhaps if the bomb had a tantalum hafnium carbide casing it could make it to the "surface" before failing.

Furthermore, it takes a substantial amount of heat and pressure to trigger nuclear fusion. Simply heating up the materials to high temperatures isn't enough. Nuclear fission is triggered by a chain reaction of free neutrons splitting (fissioning) other atoms, which in turn creates more free neutrons. Simply heating up a piece of uranium or plutonium wouldn't cause it to fission, you need to attain critical mass to do that. And not only that, but you also need a material to reflect the neutrons back inward so facilitate the chain reaction.

[Jamil]

Yes, you are right. I made the 10000000Km tooooo much. BUT:-

"it takes a substantial amount of heat and pressure to trigger nuclear fusion. Simply heating up the materials to high temperatures isn't enough."

You are right here as well but the sun does provide much much much more temperature than scientists have found out. And the temperature-increase and the strength of the casing is enough to rise the pressure to a substantial amount that would make the unstable particles break down eventually before it touches the surface. (Isn't the "surface" actually gas?)

[Lunar Delta]

You are right here as well but the sun does provide much much much more temperature than scientists have found out. And the temperature-increase and the strength of the casing is enough to rise the pressure to a substantial amount that would make the unstable particles break down eventually before it touches the surface.

The heat and pressure inside the casing would not be enough to overcome the repulsive force between the hydrogen atoms. There is a reason why a fission bomb is needed to start a fusion reaction in a thermonuclear weapon.

(Isn't the "surface" actually gas?)

Yes. That is why I said "surface" instead of just surface without the quotes.

[Jamil]

Let all mortals wait for the Day of Judgement.

Thy Lord shall emerge and Judge who is the Liar.

[116Mike]

I realize that this post really old, but does anyone know where one could find this counterplan online?

[Doppleganger]

Given the date I think it was brought up in parliamentary debate, so if the plan actually existed it's probably lurking around some MSN Groups or in Usenet, nobody bothered to post it online. This topic and other topics on Google using "nuke the sun" are probably your best resource.