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Old 04-26-2017, 10:00 PM   #1
lilboocorsola
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Delibird Young Justice


"Young Justice is an American animated television series created by Greg Weisman and Brandon Vietti for Cartoon Network. The series follows the lives of teenaged superhero sidekicks, who are members of a fictional superhero team simply known as the 'Team', and their relationships with their Justice League mentors. The story is set at a time where superpowers and superheroes are a relatively recent phenomenon."
-adapted from the Young Justice Wiki

As UPN's newly self-appointed DC/superhero fangirl, I've decided to take the liberty of creating this thread in anticipation of the upcoming third season of a show that many thought had no hope of returning, but fans fought tooth and nail for after its cancellation in 2013. The new season, titled Young Justice: Outsiders, will premiere in 2018, in which "the team faces its greatest challenge yet as it takes on meta-human trafficking and the terrifying threat it creates for a society caught in the crossfire of a genetic arms race spanning the globe and the galaxy". (source)

I watched both first two seasons last year, shortly before the announcement of S3 (which turned out to be rather convenient timing since now I don't have to wait so long like everyone else *shot*). It's a fun series with lots of exciting twists (although I knew a lot of them beforehand), so I'm quite curious to see what fresh content the creators will bring to the table, especially since I'll be going in blind this time. So I figured I'd open up the discussion floor by asking: What do you all want to see happen in Season 3?

Personally, I'd love for them to address

Spoiler: show
The story of the second Robin, Jason Todd and how he died. If he is resurrected in this continuity, I'd be eager to see how he interacts with Arsenal and if they form an alliance, given the similarities of their circumstances. Especially since there's precedent for it in the comics. (Given I've heard the same development team also worked on Under the Red Hood, I doubt these screencap comparisons are just a coincidence either.) Heck, maybe they'll even bring in Starfire and form the Outlaws?


I'd also like to see more of Tim Drake as Robin, since he didn't have much of a role in S2. *mumbles something about Dick stealing his haxing schtick* And Babs as Batgirl. Heck, maybe even bring back Steph as Spoiler, since she already had a brief cameo. And add Cassandra, since she's never even had an adaptation outside the comics, animated or otherwise, aside from an even briefer cameo in the JL cartoon. ;( ...Just give me all the Batkids. *shot*

...Except Dick, since I honestly really hate his version in YJ. Idk something about his voice really irked me even from watching clips before the show, but I truly found him insufferable early on. OTL I seriously want to smack him and tell him to shut up every time he does that annoying smart-aleck little laugh. >.>; Being a cocky/whiny brat might fly when he's off-setting the grimdark Batman, but when he's supposed to be working as part of a team of peers it becomes irritating. Really glad he wasn't chosen as leader right off the bat (pun not intended), though it still bugs me they had to insist he was "born" to lead the team. *sigh*[/rant]

On that note though, one thing I admire about the show is that it did seem to be trying to give exposure to lesser known superheroes, as it helped serve as an introduction to characters I wasn't familiar with before. (Ex: Artemis; watching her story arc unfold was quite interesting, as I had no idea what to expect.)

P.S. Conner is bae. <3 (Someone pls give Superboy a hug. ;; )

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Old 04-27-2017, 02:32 AM   #2
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Spoiler: show
They've revealed that season 3 will have flash backs to the time between season 1 and 2 as well as post S2 stuff. I think they've stated many times that Wally will come back and the VA for Wally played Kid Flash in Judas Contract, so it's very likely he was signed back on for YJ.

While that's the simple thing, bringing back Wally can be complicated depending on the time passed between his disappearance and his return. Is Artemis dating someone new? Could it be someone on the team? If they decide to borrow some plot lines from other stories, there was a time when Tim Drake dated Wondergirl when Superboy (her ex) was dead and things got wonky when he came back to life. Then new 52 threw everything into the dumpster. *shrugs* They could always have Artemis and Dick hook up and then things get weird when Wally comes back.

More Static? Yes... please...

Obviously, everyone wants to see the continuation of The Light's alliance with Darkseid. The forces of Apokalips had very subtle influence in the prior seasons, so if it escalates, it would be pretty interesting.


http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Young-Justice-2011
In the comic of Young Justice Animated Series, Dick Grayson has apparently nailed every single girl in the series.
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Old 04-27-2017, 09:05 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by lilbluecorsola View Post
...Except Dick, since I honestly really hate his version in YJ. Idk something about his voice really irked me even from watching clips before the show, but I truly found him insufferable early on. OTL I seriously want to smack him and tell him to shut up every time he does that annoying smart-aleck little laugh. >.>; Being a cocky/whiny brat might fly when he's off-setting the grimdark Batman, but when he's supposed to be working as part of a team of peers it becomes irritating. Really glad he wasn't chosen as leader right off the bat (pun not intended), though it still bugs me they had to insist he was "born" to lead the team. *sigh*[/rant]
Got something against Jesse McCartney? lol

To be completely honest, I'd love to see a Cassandra if done right, she's always been one of my favorites.
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Old 04-27-2017, 10:39 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki View Post
Spoiler: show
They've revealed that season 3 will have flash backs to the time between season 1 and 2 as well as post S2 stuff. I think they've stated many times that Wally will come back and the VA for Wally played Kid Flash in Judas Contract, so it's very likely he was signed back on for YJ.

While that's the simple thing, bringing back Wally can be complicated depending on the time passed between his disappearance and his return. Is Artemis dating someone new? Could it be someone on the team? If they decide to borrow some plot lines from other stories, there was a time when Tim Drake dated Wondergirl when Superboy (her ex) was dead and things got wonky when he came back to life. Then new 52 threw everything into the dumpster. *shrugs* They could always have Artemis and Dick hook up and then things get weird when Wally comes back.

More Static? Yes... please...

Obviously, everyone wants to see the continuation of The Light's alliance with Darkseid. The forces of Apokalips had very subtle influence in the prior seasons, so if it escalates, it would be pretty interesting.


http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Young-Justice-2011
In the comic of Young Justice Animated Series, Dick Grayson has apparently nailed every single girl in the series.
Spoiler: show
Well we all pretty much knew Wally was coming back, so no surprises there lol. (After all, no one in the superhero world stays dead for long. ;P)

You bring up an interesting/tragic scenario of Artemis moving on in the meantime though... I feel like it'd be equally sad if she did move on and if she didn't. ;(

I was surprised to see they threw in a last-minute TimxCassie hookup in the S2 finale, until I learned about the pairing in the comics as you said. (*cough* TimSteph and/or TimKon 4 lyf tho. *shot*)

Static was actually one of the few superhero shows I did watch growing up, so I was pleased to see him included and given a prominent role in S2.

It really does suck that the series originally ended on such a cliffhanger that looked like it was building up to an even bigger foe, so it'll certainly be interesting to see where it goes from there.


I should get around to reading the YJ tie-in comics sometime. Especially since I recently read this scene from it. (Seriously Bats is a better dad to Conner than Supes. >.< Clark be good to your son. ;; )

Quote:
Originally Posted by RealMrGame10 View Post
Got something against Jesse McCartney? lol

To be completely honest, I'd love to see a Cassandra if done right, she's always been one of my favorites.
Hey I like "Beautiful Soul" as much as the next gal, but his character just didn't whelm me. At all. (He did get better in S2 though.)

Superboy, on the other hand... *huggles her woobie angsty alien clone* <3 The main reason I watched the show was for him, and he did not disappoint. XP I know he's quite different from his comics counterpart, but I think it's a valid direction to take his character in. Living up to Superman's standards is a lot of pressure for a young "teenage" boy. ;(

As for Cass, while Steph has become my favorite bat-gal for a number of reasons, I'm really curious to know more about her too. More badass female superheroes pls. (Also she gets bonus points 'cuz she's Asian. *shot*)

Imagine if they added Damian though... As much as I've been slowly warming up to him, let's just keep him to his own film franchise, shall we? ^^;

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Old 04-28-2017, 10:26 PM   #5
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Having skimmed through the comics, I've come to the following conclusions:

1) Superboy is still Superbae. <3 (Seriously, that story of the G-gnome following him to the hideout simply bc it missed him was so sweet/sad. ;; Darn you Kon and your animal attraction. Would've honestly liked to see him keep the G-gnome around as a companion like Sphere and Wolf.)

2) Really want to see Steph join the team so she can bond with Artemis over their jerk dads and wanting to escape their criminal backgrounds. (Hey, they're even both blondes. ;O)

3) Dick is a dog. (And looks strikingly like Conner when he's older. Hm.)

Still hate his laugh btw. Even just seeing "Ha ha ha!" written out makes me cringe since I can immediately imagine it the way he sounds in the show. -.- At least he does mellow out when he's older, and as much remarks on how childish those days seemed following the timeskip.

Also wasn't aware Artemis's friend "Bette" is apparently a significant character; Wiki indicates she's related to Kathy Kane/Batwoman, and was actually the first "Batgirl" in the comics. Huh. The more you know. (I knew Wendy Harris and her brother Marvin were supporting members of the Teen Titans in the comics since she appeared in Steph's Batgirl run, so now I'm curious what other obscure cameos there might be.)

P.S. Happy National Superhero Day! (Bc apparently that's a thing.)
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Old 04-29-2017, 01:47 AM   #6
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Yeah, I actually knew Bette Kane from a handful of Teen Titans from the 90s comics and the New 52 Batwoman. Her character is not particularly popular outside the comics.

Spoiler: show
I almost forgot, I kind of hope they do have an episode with Zatanna and Dr. Fate. Even if it's just a one of thing. Like Dr. Fate gives Zatara one day to be himself with Zatanna and they just do an episode of them doing father-daughter things, then maybe together stop some criminals. Then at the end of the episode, she starts to cry and he says he's proud of her and he's still watching her through Dr. Fate, then puts the helmet back on. Maybe that could be the day before they induct Zatanna into the Justice League, like Dr. Fate goes into a meeting afterwards and suggests that Zatanna is now ready to join. That would be a nice episode.

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Old 04-29-2017, 02:15 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Loki View Post
Spoiler: show
I almost forgot, I kind of hope they do have an episode with Zatanna and Dr. Fate. Even if it's just a one of thing. Like Dr. Fate gives Zatara one day to be himself with Zatanna and they just do an episode of them doing father-daughter things, then maybe together stop some criminals. Then at the end of the episode, she starts to cry and he says he's proud of her and he's still watching her through Dr. Fate, then puts the helmet back on. Maybe that could be the day before they induct Zatanna into the Justice League, like Dr. Fate goes into a meeting afterwards and suggests that Zatanna is now ready to join. That would be a nice episode.
Stop making me cry before the season itself airs omg ;;

Gimmee all the daddy/famry feels ahhhh *flails*
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Old 04-29-2017, 02:36 AM   #8
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If it's a real episode, I'll probably also cry manly tears.
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Old 07-21-2017, 10:52 PM   #9
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>Static & Spoiler

f yeah

(not sure I like the lines on her mask though)

P.S. Pls let TimSteph be canon. *shot*)
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Old 07-23-2017, 09:08 PM   #10
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Spoiler is cool. Arrowette is kind of obscure, but I guess fits a bit considering she mirrors Artemis a bit and not just the fact that she uses bow and arrow. Traci 13 is almost entirely unknown to me...
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Old 07-23-2017, 10:34 PM   #11
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I will admit I spent about 10 minutes trying to find out what the spoiler was, only to realise that Spoiler is essentially a Batgirl/Robin, needless to say I felt like a moron haha
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Old 07-23-2017, 11:17 PM   #12
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Spoiler is cool. Arrowette is kind of obscure, but I guess fits a bit considering she mirrors Artemis a bit and not just the fact that she uses bow and arrow. Traci 13 is almost entirely unknown to me...
I have no idea who Arrowette and Traci 13 are. I just hope Steph does get to bond with Artemis over their jerk criminal dads. ;(

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I will admit I spent about 10 minutes trying to find out what the spoiler was, only to realise that Spoiler is essentially a Batgirl/Robin, needless to say I felt like a moron haha
Speaking of Batgirl, wonder where Babs is at. They did also reveal an image of some of the original members in stealth gear.



M'gann is mysteriously missing too. Hm...

Sad they confirmed there's no Jason Todd/Red Hood in S3 though. (Although there are plans for S4 and S5.) I was really looking forward to a team-up between him and Arsenal...
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Old 07-28-2017, 04:59 PM   #13
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So apparently that's not actually Aqualad in the image above. Instead it's Jefferson Pierce/Black Lightning.

The mystery thickens.
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Old 11-11-2021, 07:06 PM   #14
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So I picked up a month of HBO Max for Dune and now I'm watching Young Justice. I watched Season 1 and 2 in like 2 days and started the new season.

Slight spoiler about a prediction I had:
Spoiler: show
They have a Zatanna and Zatara reunion and it's infinitely sadder than the episode I imagined. She got ONE HOUR! Per Year! Wow. That's so cruel of the show writers.


The show overall feels darker than the previous seasons. I get that season 2 had some dark moments, but this season is like cranked to eleven! There has been some comedy scenes to lighten the mood, but it's still been quite dark.
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Old 11-11-2021, 08:08 PM   #15
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Old 11-11-2021, 08:42 PM   #16
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Watch the show.
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Old 11-12-2021, 01:19 PM   #17
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Season 3 is good, but messy. I don't know if there was some kind of mandate of having 26 episodes or they were trying to drag out subscription membership or whatnot, but there's a lot of episodes that I feel like are wheel spinning. While I get that they introduced a decent number of new cast members that are important to the plot, a lot of episodes don't move the plot forward and just repeat information we knew and don't add anything.

There's also a lot of modern language and politics in it. I find it really annoying. I hate every time FAKE NEWS shows up.

And now apparently there's a season 4.
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Old 12-19-2021, 01:32 AM   #18
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So I didn't realize S4 was apparently airing and just caught up to ep7 and had to pause to say what the FUCK

Spoiler: show
Godamn I hate how dirty they did Cassandra Cain's backstory (and by extension Barbara's). I was already on alert when they showed the video of Joker suggesting he was the target she failed to kill - bc if there's anyone I don't feel sorry for escaping death it's him... But then the fact Barbara was the one who saved his life (whilst claiming she was trying to save Cassandra's *roll eyes*) by jumping in the way to take the knife and that's how she got paralyzed... I get alternate universes are thing, but this is just a super shitty and gross interpretation for everyone involved by erasing the whole context of The Killing Joke and putting the blame on the victim(s) themselves. Fuck that noise.

Oh, and apparently Lady Shiva severed Cass's vocal cords as a child so we'll literally never hear her speak and they don't have to hire a voice actress now that they can't save on animation budget by not having mouths move for the whole first arc. Absolute bullshit. Hell, I'd take Birds of Prey Cass over this terrible take (and I haven't even seen the film).


So mad rn am almost crying. Don't even want to continue at this point ugh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilboocorsola View Post
I just hope Steph does get to bond with Artemis over their jerk criminal dads. ;(
And no this finally happening for a brief second doesn't help things at all. =3= I really kinda lost interest in the show/didn't care for the direction it took upon its return - especially with it trying too hard to be "woke" now - but the above seriously killed what little faith I had remaining.

On that note I get they're trying to be more focused on individual story arcs featuring the OG members now after juggling a bloated cast last season, but like Loki I'm tired of the politics inserted. Also despite leading off with my first favorite ragey baby Conner (ep4 spoilers)
Spoiler: show
his "death"
didn't phase me at all considering
Spoiler: show
he's literally in the OP still lmao.
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Old 12-19-2021, 01:41 PM   #19
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FYI: My subscription to HBO Max ended so I don't know what happens after the League of Shadows/Tigress Arc.

Your first spoiler box:
Spoiler: show
I didn't take much offense to the lack of the Killing Joke. It's iconic and makes it both difficult to incorporate and also difficult to avoid but I wouldn't expect it to be in Young Justice just as I wouldn't expect the Super Friends version of Aquaman to be the YJ version.

I'm not going to talk too much about Cassandra Cain. I'm not the biggest Batfamily fan, but I will say that the original canon was that she was never trained to speak and so her brain atrophied in her communications sections. This became a big point of contention post-Crisis when suddenly Cain is now leader of the League of Assassins and speaking verbally with Red Robin. Having it change to a severed vocal chord isn't so horrible in my eyes as it's a much more blunt way to get the same result: an Asassin who doesn't speak to keep her hidden and unable to spill secrets about her organization. *shrugs*


Referring to Conner:
Spoiler: show
Do you know about the Legion of Superheroes? If not, it's a spoiler and don't look it up lol. If you do:
Spoiler: show
I'm a bit surprised they're possibly going with this as a storyline. Legion of Superheroes was the DC attempt to move away from hard Superman/Batman/Wonderwoman and introduce completely new heroes and villains in a larger more grandiose future setting. It's not a total failure as it has it's fanbase, but DC almost never puts out stuff in this setting anymore because of how un-iconic they are compared to the Justice League. I hope it works out.


I will say that despite the issues of YJ S3+4, I do think they have done an excellent job of showing grief. It's pretty uncommon in a young adult cartoon to use grief and sadness as a large part of their primary characters development. Usually it's just like, "Oh whoever is dead, let's keep trucking!" Instead we see characters break down and just spend whole episodes pretty much crying and their friends just being there to try and help.

Different spoilery stuff about Savage:
Spoiler: show
I don't particularly like the idea that Savage and Darkseid have this weird competition. Like Darkseid clearly won during the Earth's dark ages so why let Savage continue? It doesn't bring Darkseid closer to the anti-life equation (which has slowly become a dumber and dumber thing) and it let's an rival continue to compete with him for dominance of the universe. Like Savage doesn't even have dominion over his own planet and lacks his own space travel, instead relying on alien technology. And clearly as time has gone by, Savage is actively impeding Darkseid's ambitions. So like what is going on? He should just come down and crush Earth.
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Old 12-19-2021, 03:28 PM   #20
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FYI: My subscription to HBO Max ended so I don't know what happens after the League of Shadows/Tigress Arc.

Your first spoiler box:
Spoiler: show
I didn't take much offense to the lack of the Killing Joke. It's iconic and makes it both difficult to incorporate and also difficult to avoid but I wouldn't expect it to be in Young Justice just as I wouldn't expect the Super Friends version of Aquaman to be the YJ version.

I'm not going to talk too much about Cassandra Cain. I'm not the biggest Batfamily fan, but I will say that the original canon was that she was never trained to speak and so her brain atrophied in her communications sections. This became a big point of contention post-Crisis when suddenly Cain is now leader of the League of Assassins and speaking verbally with Red Robin. Having it change to a severed vocal chord isn't so horrible in my eyes as it's a much more blunt way to get the same result: an Asassin who doesn't speak to keep her hidden and unable to spill secrets about her organization. *shrugs*
I ranted/talked to Talon about this, but the whole thing is problematic in a lot of ways. I don't mind changing origin stories, but when it's changed in a way that's grossly offensive/strips both characters of agency IMO then it's an issue.

Spoiler: show
I've seen "defenders" argue at least it gives more agency to Barbara than The Killing Joke, but I disagree. It comes off more as "victim-blaming" for her own injury, and with the context of TKJ's existence making the deliberate choice to have her be paralyzed as a result of saving the Joker just feels like terribly poor taste.

Others have pointed out shifting the onus of Cassandra's abusive childhood entirely to her mother also reeks of racism and misogyny, especially upon reading more into her conception:

"[David Cain] found a potential mother when he saw Sandra Wu-San fighting her sister Carolyn in a martial arts tournament. Believing that Sandra was holding back for Carolyn, Cain murdered Carolyn and lured Sandra into a trap, sparing her life in exchange for giving birth to his child and leaving that child for him to raise."

While Cass isn't my favorite Bat character by any means (in part bc lack of exposure) - I think had I grown up reading the comics she probably would be as a badass Asian female superhero (not to mention quiet/socially awkward but still at least able to learn to communicate orally with others to an extent), so this bastardization of her backstory is pretty awful on both my and bigger fans' behalves. (Which seems to be a trend with her character. *sigh*) I'm not going to soapbox about the social justice, but basically my kneejerk angry reaction is that this version of Cass's reason not to kill boils down to "Barbara Gordon pulls a dumb move by leaping in front of the frickin' Joker and being stabbed by accident". Just... wtf.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki View Post
Referring to Conner:
Spoiler: show
Do you know about the Legion of Superheroes? If not, it's a spoiler and don't look it up lol. If you do:
Spoiler: show
I'm a bit surprised they're possibly going with this as a storyline. Legion of Superheroes was the DC attempt to move away from hard Superman/Batman/Wonderwoman and introduce completely new heroes and villains in a larger more grandiose future setting. It's not a total failure as it has it's fanbase, but DC almost never puts out stuff in this setting anymore because of how un-iconic they are compared to the Justice League. I hope it works out.
I'm not sure if I'm thinking of the same thing and not going to bother looking up details, but I did get the impression that:

Spoiler: show
The three following the group were from the future.


Idk how their story is handled in the comics and I believe I only briefly met them in DCAU, but I'm not really worried either way about Conner given it's... Conner lol. He just needs to

Spoiler: show
punch the walls of reality to revive. *shot*

(And yes I'm aware that was "Superboy Prime" but shhh)
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Old 12-21-2021, 11:16 PM   #21
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Is that really victim blaming though? If a cop jumps in front of another person to take a bullet, that's usually called sacrifice. Barbara makes the conscious choice to spare Cassandra the guilt of becoming a murderer by taking the blow. Granted, the blow was meant for an awful character, but that makes the sacrifice all the more noble and the overall situation more tragic. Now, Cassandra is instead driven by her guilt of maiming Barbara rather than the guilt of murdering someone.

And don't get me wrong. I agree the scenario is dumb, but the Batfamily physically stopping her would not have changed her mind about trying to kill her target. While it is quite contrived that the sequence of events to happen this way, this is one way where Cassandra could be stopped by guilt without her killing.
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Old 12-22-2021, 12:45 AM   #22
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If the target had been literally anyone other than the Joker then maybe I could've bought the scenario better, but again the fact that the writers intentionally chose to twist TKJ around in such a way to make it Barbara's own "fault" for saving him bc "lol tragic irony" is just an absolutely horrendous and disrespectful decision IMO, and I won't back down from that point. They knew what they were doing and it just makes it all the worse by distracting focus from Barbara actually being a "hero" to "haha psyche she still gets paralyzed while the guy who'd no doubt torment her anyway given the opportunity gets off scot-free". Ugh.
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Old 12-22-2021, 02:01 AM   #23
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Comics in general haven't been respecting iconic legacy stories for a while now. I've since become a bit numb to it since around New 52's time (which slowly destroyed all my interest in DC). Even before that, Red Hood basically ruined A Death in the Family.

Nowadays I try to look at individual stories as their own thing. Young Justice is very self contained, but makes nods to past DC story lines, but I still judge it for itself. Does it work in the context of Cassandra Cain ending her career as an assassin and joining the Batfamily? Sure. Is it a dumb? Yeah. But it's not blasphemy.
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Old 12-22-2021, 07:18 PM   #24
lilboocorsola
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Lil' Bluey

Maybe, but it's still a shitty move for many reasons, both meta and on general principle.

Tangentially/to change the topic I guess, wonder if they're ever actually gonna do anything with

Spoiler: show
Jason Todd's character.


I still say it's a missed opportunity that

Spoiler: show
he hasn't interacted with O.G. Roy/Arsenal, since there's precedent for it in the comics (Red Hood and the Outlaws) and they could definitely bond over their "daddy abandonment issues" in this universe. Although Roy seems pretty over it at this point so I guess it's too late now.
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Old 12-31-2021, 06:48 PM   #25
Loki
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JT spoiler maybe:
Spoiler: show
People speculate that the Red Hooded Ninja on Infinity Island could be Jason Todd, but it's mostly baseless since so little is known about the ninja. It could very well never come to fruition or could just be a red herring (not intended as a pun).
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