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Old 08-31-2020, 02:53 PM   #1
Lil'twick
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Articuno Cram-o-Shop Proposal!

Ever had some random junk in your inventory that you have no need of? Don't worry, here at the Cram-o-Sop you'd be able to use one one of our Cram-o-matics to put in up to four items a week and get something else out! Depending on what you put in, you'll get different things! Remember its still all up to chance, so the same recipe won't always pop out the same item! Of course, we do have some set recipes for our lovely patrons, in case you do need something specifics.

We are now also featuring our Cram-o-Matic V.2.0! This comes with a build in curry maker! With the curry oven feature, you can put in up to 10 berries and other random food you may have to create curry! Curry can be used in a variety of ways, so if you're interested you can definitely make curry!

Baseline rules.

1) You can either make one item or make on batch of curry per week. All item/berry rop offs must be done by Friday, 11:59 PM.
2) You can claim your new item/curry starting at 12 AM Monday.

All items will be based off of the Cram-O-Matic list that Serebii has.

As for what Curry will do, that can be discussed here with the mods. So can further rules, as well as guaranteed recipes. Feedback is appreciated!
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Old 08-31-2020, 02:54 PM   #2
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We're going to have to come up with values for items that aren't currently in Pokemon, or disallow their use entirely if we do this.
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Old 08-31-2020, 03:05 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Emi View Post
We're going to have to come up with values for items that aren't currently in Pokemon, or disallow their use entirely if we do this.
I think it'd be fine to disallow anything that doesn't currently have values, since this is really just a way to get rid of more useless fodder like Berries and Apricorns, etc. Any more unique items not found in-game people would probably want to keep anyway.

One thing that jumps out at me though if we use Serebii's list is that we'll have to decide whether to allow certain results such as Ability Capsules (I vote yes *shot*), Bottle Caps, or PP Up. (And in the cases of the latter, what they'd actually do in FB.)

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Old 08-31-2020, 03:08 PM   #4
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I like the idea of the cram-o-matic, perhaps like Emi said more lifting elements from the original shop of all trades rather than having all the random combinations featured in the game's version.

I think the curry idea should stand as its own thing. Perhaps it could be a new feature in the secret bases forum since they serve a similar function to camping.
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Old 08-31-2020, 04:02 PM   #5
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While I'll let the mods decide on things such as ability capsules, I do think Bottle Caps have just been exchanged for money before ($100 for Silver, $1000 for Gold iirc.) As for PP Up, I don't know? Vitamins in general don't really serve a purpose for us.
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Old 08-31-2020, 06:08 PM   #6
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I like the idea of the cram-o-matic, perhaps like Emi said more lifting elements from the original shop of all trades rather than having all the random combinations featured in the game's version.

I think the curry idea should stand as its own thing. Perhaps it could be a new feature in the secret bases forum since they serve a similar function to camping.
Combinations in the game aren't random, it's just a bunch of math that seems complicated on the surface.

Shop of All Trades was inherently not a great idea and I really wouldn't want it to come back.
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Old 08-31-2020, 07:18 PM   #7
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Tbh I was thinking of there being more specified things like an Apricorn into a ball but some randomness to the list instead of just what Joebii has since its kind if hard to get some of those point values and it would lose some if the value and scratch the itch per say if things were set just for shit being thrown in and you get the same result every time. People could just shill out stuff like heart scales or candies or eviolites every week and it just games the system.
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Old 09-01-2020, 12:17 AM   #8
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Perhaps replace some of the things on the list that have no use in FB with FB things?

Yummi Gummis. Maybe Shiny Spray as a incredibly rare thing. Perhaps Enigma or Type Eggs? Maybe seasonal items also as an incredibly rare thing.

Some more ideas coming to mind after a moment...

Treasure Items, if kept on the list, should have the option to be sold immediately or kept (could be RP value in them for some people.)

If things need to be filled in, perhaps more Treasure Items (that can be traded in)- but with a focus on things that are interesting RP-wise?

Expand the list with more TMs, since they're just single-use in FB just like TRs.

If Ability Capsules make their way in, let them change to/from Hidden Ability since the current way to change Ability at all is the same whether or not you're selecting a Hidden Ability: resetting your Pokemon.

Maybe an item that can be used for a reroll all on it's own, but if you feed multiple your odds of getting something nice are increased? "Retry Token" or some such.
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Old 09-01-2020, 12:29 AM   #9
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If Ability Capsules make their way in, let them change to/from Hidden Ability since the current way to change Ability at all is the same whether or not you're selecting a Hidden Ability: resetting your Pokemon.
Ability Capsules in FB should, IMO, do the exact same thing that the reset thread allows in terms of Abilities but without the need to reset the Pokémon. And, if I may, they absolutely need to be a thing in FB.
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Old 09-01-2020, 12:56 AM   #10
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I will say this about ability capsules – the main use for them in the game is to make it easier to get a desired ability onto a Pokemon you have bred. In FB we have the luxury of declaring whatever ability we choose, so I can see why it hasn’t been pressing issue to-date. I do think they should be introduced but just not accessible enough that people are flipping a Pokemon’s ability back and forth depending on which raid boss they’re battling. It should be more of a one off thing to use on your Pokemon imo.
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Old 09-01-2020, 01:05 AM   #11
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Combinations in the game aren't random, it's just a bunch of math that seems complicated on the surface.

Shop of All Trades was inherently not a great idea and I really wouldn't want it to come back.
By random I mean nonsensical, not randomly generated. Although there are some RNG influenced outputs in the Cram-O-Matic, such as the Apricorns.

What makes you say the Shop of All Trades wasn't a good idea? It was a staple of FB for the longest time - the only thing inherently bad about it was having to offer up Pokemon for trades which I'm not proposing we do. I only mentioned the Shop of All Trades as it has a list of inputs and outputs (Apricorns, Shards, Ash) that make sense and have precedence in the games.

I guess the crux at what I'm getting at is that the Shop of All Trades is a better starting point for your list of inputs and outputs than the Serebii list which includes a huge amount of items not common in FB and deviates from the whole reason we're proposing this idea, that is that with the Cloud Garden closing, there's no longer a place to exchange Apricorns for Pokeballs.
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Old 09-01-2020, 07:23 AM   #12
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If preventing flip-flopping of Abilities around is something that needs to happen, then perhaps some kind of (at least) 40-60 time limit before they can be used again on the same Pokemon. Or you can have it so that it takes time to apply them (Ability retraining service at the Move Tutor or something?).

Though, going by the in-game/Serebii recipe, having to dump 3 rare candies in is a considerable price to pay for some. That means almost a whole month of weekly candies for a player.

If someone wants to pay that every month, then that's on them. Those with large candy hoards are at an advantage, but when aren't they when they can use their candies for things? Not to say that's bad, just stating it since it effects how many Ability Capsules can be spammed out by a given person.
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Old 09-01-2020, 10:17 AM   #13
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On the topic for Ability Capsules, I think the fairest thing is them having a limited, one time use per Pokemon. While di we have the luxury of choosing a Pokemon's ability when we obtain it, that isn't the case for certain scenarios like a Pokemon being traded to you. That ability is hard stusk to whatever the original owner had for it. And more often than not you don't want to have to reset the Pokemon, which has caused the push towards wanting Ability Capsules introduced.
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Old 09-01-2020, 11:02 AM   #14
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Only one use ever seems a bit much. Maybe once a year if they're to be limited use like that.
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Old 09-01-2020, 11:24 AM   #15
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Much as the Ability Capsule discussion does need to be had at some point, this thread is not exactly the place for it.

As far as a list of inputs and outputs goes, I'm really on Emp's side here that the way the Shop of All Trades used to handle it was honestly pretty good all things considered (as long as we don't ever talk about trading Pokemon for items ever again ever). Frankly the actual in game list gets too complicated far too quickly. The idea is to have a simple trade in system for unwanted items, not to make people have to go find that one last otherwise useless item they need to turn their pile of random garbage into the one thing on the list they actually care about.
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Old 09-01-2020, 12:29 PM   #16
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Much as the Ability Capsule discussion does need to be had at some point, this thread is not exactly the place for it.

As far as a list of inputs and outputs goes, I'm really on Emp's side here that the way the Shop of All Trades used to handle it was honestly pretty good all things considered (as long as we don't ever talk about trading Pokemon for items ever again ever). Frankly the actual in game list gets too complicated far too quickly. The idea is to have a simple trade in system for unwanted items, not to make people have to go find that one last otherwise useless item they need to turn their pile of random garbage into the one thing on the list they actually care about.
Fair enough, Ability Capsule discussion later (or at least after the trade-in list in figured out).

What you're saying about the list, simpler really is better. FB isn't Pokemon Sword/Shield where you will have a massive pile of random junk built up simply after playing the game for a few days. The piles of random junk in FB take a much longer time to actually build up and so the process of turning junk into more useful stuff should be simpler.

(Now to actually pull up that old thread... :V)
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Old 09-01-2020, 01:59 PM   #17
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Whyin my opening post I said they can put up to four items. The thread is really more about turning in unwanted items to either get something that may be useful, or turn in specific items to get a specific reward. We don't need the complicated system that SwSh uses, just something that is simple and easy to use while serving the community a purpose.

As for right now, since I agree this isn't the thread for Ability Capsules, I say that they will be excluded from any potential item rerolls. Same goes for Rare Candies and Heart Scales for now. For rerolls of unwanted items, I'd say the list would include Pokeballs, Medicines, and Held Items rolled randomly. Shard, Apricorn, and Ash mechanics will be kept from the Shop of All Trades. Shard Quests will die in the unholy pyre that they deserve to be in. Does that seem like a fair deal for everyone>
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Old 09-01-2020, 02:10 PM   #18
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Looking at the old thread... will you just be able to directly trade things in instead of needing to answer random questions?
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Old 09-01-2020, 03:03 PM   #19
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As I stated in my last post shard requests will never return.
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Old 09-01-2020, 03:14 PM   #20
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...Was I the only one who liked the riddle aspect of Shard Quests? .-.
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Old 09-01-2020, 04:05 PM   #21
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Let me refine/channel the discussion a little with some guiding bullet points of what I have in mind:
  • This would not be a re-hash of the old Shop of All Trades. The primary function of this would be to exchange items that are either A) unwanted for a random return, or B) following a set crafting recipe such as Apricorns for corresponding balls
  • Do not focus too hard on what types of items would be possible rewards. Stuff that's deemed rare or high-value such as Heart Scales and whatnot would have to be scrutinized very closely by TKF and myself to make sure we keep an even and balanced level of play, and I wouldn't even say for certain that specific items would be obtainable from this method.
  • Ability Capsules are a completely unrelated discussion topic and one that TKF and I have been discussing a lot. The more people try to complain about them or shoehorn them into every discussion, the harder it becomes for us to weigh community feedback without dealing with members' own self-interests and biases.
  • On Discord, when I suggested that people come up with proposals for Cram-o-matic OR the Curry cooking, I did not mean that the two mechanics should be combined into one. Because that would be weird lol.

In summary, what I'm trying to say is that what we should be trying to develop is the broader mechanic of how we want it to function instead of getting caught up on the minor details of specific rewards.
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Old 09-01-2020, 04:50 PM   #22
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I brought up Ability Capsules bc going by the initial proposal, it was something that had to be addressed sooner or later if we went by Serebii's listing. Again, same with Bottle Caps and PP Up. Clearly it goes to show that we can't just use the same system exactly and it needs some refinement to suit FB's purposes.

At any rate, I'm more curious to figure out how Curry cooking could work since I'm personally more concerned with having a place to dump all the Berries clogging my inventory. I definitely think it could double as a way to boost Contest stats for people who care about those since the flavor format is similar to making Pokéblocks/Poffins. Also like the idea of maybe incorporating Secret Bases into it somehow, as well as using it as another avenue to increase Bond.

(If there needs to be a separate thread for Curry discussion I can create one/try writing up a quick draft.)
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Old 09-01-2020, 05:14 PM   #23
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I brought up Ability Capsules bc going by the initial proposal, it was something that had to be addressed sooner or later if we went by Serebii's listing. Again, same with Bottle Caps and PP Up. Clearly it goes to show that we can't just use the same system exactly and it needs some refinement to suit FB's purposes.

At any rate, I'm more curious to figure out how Curry cooking could work since I'm personally more concerned with having a place to dump all the Berries clogging my inventory. I definitely think it could double as a way to boost Contest stats for people who care about those since the flavor format is similar to making Pokéblocks/Poffins. Also like the idea of maybe incorporating Secret Bases into it somehow, as well as using it as another avenue to increase Bond.

(If there needs to be a separate thread for Curry discussion I can create one/try writing up a quick draft.)
A separate thread for curry cooking could be a good idea. The stockpile of berries everyone has been amassing has been weighing on my mind lately too, so I wouldn't be opposed to finding some way to do something with them
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Old 09-02-2020, 01:01 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandaa View Post
Let me refine/channel the discussion a little with some guiding bullet points of what I have in mind:
  • This would not be a re-hash of the old Shop of All Trades. The primary function of this would be to exchange items that are either A) unwanted for a random return, or B) following a set crafting recipe such as Apricorns for corresponding balls
  • Do not focus too hard on what types of items would be possible rewards. Stuff that's deemed rare or high-value such as Heart Scales and whatnot would have to be scrutinized very closely by TKF and myself to make sure we keep an even and balanced level of play, and I wouldn't even say for certain that specific items would be obtainable from this method.
  • Ability Capsules are a completely unrelated discussion topic and one that TKF and I have been discussing a lot. The more people try to complain about them or shoehorn them into every discussion, the harder it becomes for us to weigh community feedback without dealing with members' own self-interests and biases.
  • On Discord, when I suggested that people come up with proposals for Cram-o-matic OR the Curry cooking, I did not mean that the two mechanics should be combined into one. Because that would be weird lol.

In summary, what I'm trying to say is that what we should be trying to develop is the broader mechanic of how we want it to function instead of getting caught up on the minor details of specific rewards.
In the interest of actually making sure this does go through, I'll continue the discussion based off of what Gary has said here.

1) I think the base proposal that I put in the OP works well enough mechanically. People can put in up to four unwanted items to the Cram, or can exchange a specific item to get something in return. I will say that while recycling would be limited to one a week, for shards to stones, apricorns to balls, or ash to flutes we should probably not have a cap. Making someone with like 4 apricorns having to exchange them one at a time for a month does seem like a waste of time.
2)Having the SO and the Mods create a list of items that could be re-rolled would probably be for the best. That way things can be limited in circulation, and other things that could easily be abused aren't included into the listings. The point is to get something nice for your unwanted items, not manipulating the system to break the game.
3) Agreed on this front
4) This is kind of my fault. I like mixing ideas together even if they don't entirely make sense. Thank you Yuki for creating a separate thread. I do want to say though that berries should be allowed to be recycled here if you have no interest in making Curry.

Honestly I feel that overall the base mechanics are fine with everybody, and it mostly got into specific rewards where people were starting to disagree.
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Old 09-02-2020, 01:46 PM   #25
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Attempting to summarize to make sure I've understood this correctly.

There will be two parts to the Shop.

One is a straight-up exchange for items in games that can/should be exchanged in that way (shards, apricorns, ash). No one is in contention over this.

The other is an item dump for misc junk. There will be a secret list that is rolled on (and definitely secretly fudged at times I'm sure) to determine prizes.

The current issue is, what the heck do we put on this list?

Summary over so I'm going to now raise a question: Should there be any guarantee that what you get out will be worth more than what you threw in?

If not, then a implicit line for each person will have to be drawn for things that are and aren't worth trying to get a reroll on. It feels bad to have traded down is all.

If there is, then some kind of public or secret rarity system will need to be made. Also, throwing in 4 things of one rarity should get you something that is minimum the average rarity (or so) of what was put in. But what's valuable to people is also subjective so it definitely won't please everyone (so you can't totally avoid the feeling of having traded down).

If such a system is put into place, should it also even be publicly known that it exists? I'm leaning towards yes because then it would motivate people to use the Shop.

That's my... three cents or so on the current matter. I will point out that I've made sure to not say certain things should/should not be on the random reward list. Let's not get caught up in specific details before we know how the whole thing will work.
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