JoJo's Bizarre Adventure

[Doppleganger]

Originally Posted by Talon87

Spoiler: show

One additional reason I am disappointed in Araki for bringing Avdol back is that it is clear from the presentation of Avdol's death that Araki had not originally intended him to still be alive. Perhaps he's denied this. Perhaps many fans will argue with me. But I'll present my case as follows:

Excellent points all around. Here's the story.

Spoiler: show

Abdul was intended to be stay dead. Araki had killed him off and rumour has it Hol Horse was supposed to replace him. You can see earlier I was posturing about "maybe the anime is different!" because some pre-production rumours suggested the anime would do things differently, and to most fans of Jojo that usually suggests the issue of Abdul's deus ex return to action.

Hol Horse's look and personality, unlike the other villains, doesn't feel out of place on the Jojo team - as a cowardly American cowboy, you can see him at odds with the knightly French Polenareff and upper class New Yorker Joseph, and a pretty stark contrast to the taciturn Japanese boys. It would have made for some nice clash that didn't exist with the only wacky guys being Joseph and Polenareff. Since Kakyouin and Polenareff were already villains turned heroes, the expendable body was Abdul if Araki wanted to introduce fresh blood.

But like you, fans in the '90s loved Abdul. When he died, Jump received a tsunami of mail begging Araki to change his mind about killing him. Araki was so moved (in part due to no small pressure from his editors) he brought Abdul back to life.

For the most part, Araki sticks to his '80s intent to kill off characters and keep them dead. This case was exceptional since Jojo had never received so much feedback before, and Abdul was probably the #2 favourite character of the fans, behind the main character Jotaro. Abdul was never intended to attract that much love, and it came as a surprise.

And, I should not that post-resurrection Abdul isn't quite the same as he was before he died. His personality is different, to balance the team chemistry I mentioned earlier. However, I became an even bigger Abdul fan because he's awesome right now, and gives a really charismatic speech sometime later.

As silly as it is, Abdul's return is really when Stardust Crusaders enters "iconic" territory for the stories. Everything up to now has been a departure from what we saw in Phantom Blood and Battle Tendency for pacing and tension, but once they step into Dio's land the series truly does become bizarre.

[Talon87]

Excellent reply. Thanks very much for it. Except for one sentence ...

Spoiler: show

When you write, "[Abdul] gives a really charismatic speech sometime later," you give away that Abdul categorically WILL NOT DIE (AND REMAIN DEAD) before I see this speech delivered. So you rob me of any excitement with any harrowing situations Abdul will find himself in in the future. At least until he delivers the speech. If it's in next week's episode? Great! If it's not until Episode 20 of Season 2? Then boo on you, man.

One of these days you'll learn. I have hope that one of these days you will learn which comments unintentionally give away future information and which do not.

Until then, you're better off just ... never mentioning ANYTHING that happens in the future. ^^; Not even the delivery of an awesome speech.

But yeah. That aside, I'm grateful for a solid reply this week. Your knowledge of the behind-the-scenes story is much appreciated. And in response to it, I'll say ...

Spoiler: show

I'm disappointed to hear that fans brought about this questionable plot development. I'm glad that Jonathan's and Caesar's deaths occurred late enough in their respective story arcs that it would have proved impossible for Araki to bring them back in response to fan letters. (Especially Jonathan's! ) I suspect that that's what makes Avdol's situation so different: not just that he was mega popular, but that he also died relatively early, granting fans plenty of time to write in to Shounen Jump requesting a retcon.

I wonder what sort of conversation Araki and George R. R. Martin would have. Because you know that George R. R. Martin has gotten hundreds of fan letters either requesting he bring back a killed-off character or else requesting that he not lay a finger on some still-alive character. And while I have yet to read any of his books or see any of the HBO series, my understanding is that Martin merely chuckles at these fan letters and then, Rorschach-like, answers, "No. " I respect Martin for that. He's the artist, he's the one who knows what's best, and he appreciates the paradox in audiences' hearts between what they say they want and what they really want. Because while an audience may claim that they want some deceased character to come back to life, almost no one, not even very young children, enjoys an unconvincing resurrection story. So I wonder what Martin would say to Araki. Would he lose respect for Araki upon learning what happened with Avdol? Would he admire Araki for placing millions of children before his own artistic integrity? I think there is something to be said there, at least, for Araki prioritizing children's smiles over his own artist's desire to create an enduring masterpiece. It's like the accomplished actor who agrees to show up in a really shitty kids film because he knows his children or his grandchildren will love him in it. (Example: Raul Julia and the Street Fighter movie. >_<) I respect that Martin has the self-respect to not stoop so low, but I guess I also respect that Araki has the selflessness to indeed stoop so low if it means bringing smiles to so many faces.

The book still isn't written on whether I'm going to love or hate this retcon. Like I said, normally my rule is that it's a dumb idea to bring back a character you killed off. And the main idea behind this is that, once you start bringing back deceased characters, that removes all of the tension from any future harrowing situations the heroes will find themselves in. Plot armor is on in full now and you know, because the plot necessitates it, that no one in the main party is going to die. Even if you're surprised by a Polnareff death here or a Kakyouin death there, you don't get too worked up over it like you would have formerly because you have Avdol's resurrection nagging at the back of your mind, reminding you that even when characters "die," they're never truly dead until the story is over. And by the time you reach the story's end, you're long past those characters' death scenes and thus the blade's edge is dulled considerably. But in spite of all of these beliefs I hold, I can't deny that if Resurrected Avdol is one of the best characters in the story going forward, then I am glad to have him on board.

One last thing I'll say: your information sheds so much light on why Avdol died so early and then NO ONE ELSE EVER DIED AGAIN. It's clear that Araki likely originally intended, as I had predicted way back when, that the only person or people to make it into Egypt would be Joutarou and maybe Joseph. That he was going to have Polnareff, Kakyouin, and even Avdol die off one by one as the journey became more and more difficult, as Dio's henchmen became more and more lethal. Polnareff's logical exit point would have been with Enyaba and the hotel. (He'd already avenged his sister and now here she was avenging her son.) Kakyouin could've died with the baby, written off by his friends as having gone insane until they realized the truth only too late, or alternatively he could've died earlier under different circumstances. And of course Avdol did die. But yeah. I feel like I now understand better than ever why it is that Avdol died so early only for no one else to ever die again.

[Doppleganger]

@Talon

Spoiler: show

I think that if Araki wanted to bring back a character, Abdul was probably an easy way to yield on that front without compromising the big picture. Remember that the intent to remove him was more to balance the chemistry of the team, which was leaning very heavily toward the stoic guys with occasional comic relief from Joeseph and Polenareff. As you mentioned, Abdul was killed fairly early and Dio's hideout is in Egypt, while his death would certainly have a place on the hearts of the fans, it isn't at the climax of the story against a 'boss' in the same way that we've seen in prior Jojo series or in other shounen stories. It was almost closer to an Akagi-style meaningless death.

Marin also likely has far more creative control of his work than a Japanese manga-ka does, since the culture is a back and forth between the wants of editor and manga-ka. He doesn't have to take orders from anyone, whereas this relationship between manga-ka/editor is closer to telling your boss "no". I feel like they have different priorities: Marin is writing for himself, while a Japanese manga-ka is obligated to, in some respects, write for the fans and their own pleasure. Even guys like Hajime Ishiyama, Shingeki no Kyojin's author, kept the Potato Girl (I forgot her name) alive longer than he originally wanted to because the fans latched on to her, and in the cosmic sense of the story she's irrelevant. More telling is the ultimate destiny of the story was to end in humanity being consumed by the titans, and Ishiyama's bosses forced his hand on that matter to. At least, with Araki's case, his vision for the story goes unaltered except for bringing back Abdul.

Originally Posted by Talon87

Spoiler: show

The book still isn't written on whether I'm going to love or hate this retcon. Like I said, normally my rule is that it's a dumb idea to bring back a character you killed off. And the main idea behind this is that, once you start bringing back deceased characters, that removes all of the tension from any future harrowing situations the heroes will find themselves in. Plot armor is on in full now and you know, because the plot necessitates it, that no one in the main party is going to die. Even if you're surprised by a Polnareff death here or a Kakyouin death there, you don't get too worked up over it like you would have formerly because you have Avdol's resurrection nagging at the back of your mind, reminding you that even when characters "die," they're never truly dead until the story is over. And by the time you reach the story's end, you're long past those characters' death scenes and thus the blade's edge is dulled considerably. But in spite of all of these beliefs I hold, I can't deny that if Resurrected Avdol is one of the best characters in the story going forward, then I am glad to have him on board.

Spoiler: show

I definitely feel aghast the idea of retcons since they're dishonest, but to me it's more important to have the retcons feel out of character rather than habitual. Eiichiro Oda, the author of One Piece, is infamous for giving characters dramatic death scenes only to later show "oh wait, they're alive!". It got to the point that it became a meme.

You don't want to go there, toying with fan emotions to the point nobody believes you crying wolf even when the hounds of hell are overrunning the countryside. However, I feel like Araki does this sporadically enough that even if he loses some rep doing it, he builds it back up by keeping people dead when they're killed.

[Talon87]

Stardust Crusaders Ep23:

Spoiler: show

Araki reveals in very short order that the submarine is indeed staffed by no one save our five heroes. So everything I wrote last week about "lol obviously the Stand user is one of the hired hands" is wrong, a mistaken assumption based on misinterpretation of what the sneak peek was showing us. Having admitted my error, I'll say that I still don't like this. It's silly to suggest that a submarine, which should require weeks if not months if not years of training to pilot, is something that Avdol already knows how to pilot no sweat. Submarines are even worse than airplanes in this regard: because you can't see where you're going in a submarine, you absolutely must have at least two trained officers (a helmsman and a comm officer) such that one can pilot while the other pings and consults with maps of the sea floor. We only saw the team bust out a map once, and it was a generic atlas-style map that they fished out only after they sighted land through the periscope. So we're supposed to believe that they made the trip from Saudi Arabia to Egypt, via submarine, without crashing into a single obstacle. Kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinda silly if you ask me.

The villain and the related plot this week felt a little too familiar. We've already seen one other metamorph Stand (the yellow slime man who represented the Temperance tarot card). And we've already seen one other sinking ship episode (the orangutan who represented Strength). Still an interesting opponent, I guess, but with the cat out of the bag that no more of our heroes are likely to perish pre-Egypt, I find it difficult to get too excited when she does things like slice off Joseph's prosthetic arm or take swipes at Kakyouin's flank.

The bit with Suzie Q was okay. I never really cared for her in Battle Tendency, and she manages to be one of the least appealing characters in Stardust Crusaders as well, it seems. ^^; While I felt a little bad for her, I thought it was kind of silly just how in the dark she was. I had been expecting her to be secretly aware her husband was risking his life when she went back to fetch that blue dress. I had been expecting the servant to find her crying in the bedroom and for him to think to himself, "Master Joseph, it turns out that you are the one I am keeping secrets from. T_T I have not told Madam Suzie the truth, but she knows, Master Joseph. She knows. You are the one I dare not tell this truth to lest it weaken your resolve. Be strong, Master Joseph! And come back to us in one piece!" Not only do we not get that -- okay -- but we're given a Suzie Q so vapid that she can't even put two and two together by the end of the episode despite all the other information she's learned. Maybe future episodes will reveal that this too is a mistaken assumption on my part and that Suzie Q, following the events of Episode 23, books a flight to Japan to check on her daughter Holly immediately. Who knows.

[Talon87]

Stardust Crusaders Ep24:

Spoiler: show

I was surprised to find that this week's episode was the last one of the season. Just the day before, I had looked up that the Egypt arc was confirmed for Winter 2015, so I knew not only that we were nearing the end but that once we got there there'd be a three-month hiatus. But I hadn't expected the end to come this week! I thought for sure I had read that JJBA Stardust Crusaders S1 was a 25-episode affair. Guess I read wrong.

I don't have too much to say. This week's episode honestly felt like something plucked straight out of the middle of a story. And maybe that's because it is that? ^^; But yeah. Turning a middle-of-the-story episode into a season finale episode sure is weird, especially when the recipient doesn't see it coming. They did their best, what with the second half / final third of the episode (i.e. from the phone call to Grandma Suzie forward), but yeah ... the High Priestess ended up being a super-powerful opponent who was defeated much too easily owing to the connection between Stands and their human users' physical bodies. Her much-too-easy defeat made the entire affair very anticlimactic. You knew she was going to lose (because lol temporary plot armor for our heroes) and you knew it was probably going to be unsatisfactory, but still.

The final bit with Dio and/or Dio's henchman killing the Speedwagon Foundation operative was way too dark. Literally: I could not see anything except for the operative's face because of how ridiculously dark the screen was to begin with and because of the censorship on top of that. Maybe it suffered for my watching it in a well-lit room during the daytime on a tiny LCD computer screen. I will have to go back and check when it's darker.

One final thing to note: Dio's relationship with Jonathan is so messed up. ^^; It was a brief bit of dialogue, but I appreciated that bit where Dio is talking to "Jonathan" as he comments on his possession of Jonathan's body.

[Doppleganger]

I watched this episode!

The curtains pull apart next week!

[Doppleganger]

EGYPT IS HERE!

EVERYONE START WATCHING RIGHT NOW!

Wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuooooooh!!

[Talon87]

Proper Episode 25 post later. For now I'll just say:

Spoiler: show

That was one hell of a season opener and a sight for sore eyes.

[Doppleganger]

Episode 25!

Spoiler: show

I know this episode from the original OVA, which I felt was better, but this one was good too. N'Doul feels a lot younger with more spunk and haughtiness than in the OVA, and it's a refreshing take on him. Iggy seems feminine for some reason, but he's a male dog.

RIP Speedwagon bros. Sad you had to die twice.

[Talon87]

Stardust Crusaders Ep25:

Spoiler: show

We're back! After a one-season hiatus, Studio David returns to give us more JoJo's Bizarre Adventure goodness! It's nice to see -- refreshing, actually! -- that a studio is willing to keep with the pre-hiatus numbering system if they're aware that the second half is really all part of the same production and isn't its own truly novel half. Thus, "Episode 01" of what many fans are labeling the "Egypt Arc" is kindly labeled by the studio themselves as "Episode 25," putting us right back where we last left off when Episode 24 aired three months ago.

What can I say: this season premiere was the best episode I saw of anything I watched that week, a list that would include the series premieres of Kantai Collection and Death Parade as well as an ordinary episode from the ongoing Pokémon XY. JJBA SC's season premiere was exciting, had nostalgia going for it (if "nostalgia" is even the right term; more like ... the joy of being reunited with old friends again after a months-long absence?), didn't waste any time developing the plot, and -- best of all -- was jam-packed with content but not overloadingly so, giving viewers the best possible bang for their buck. Silly story is silly and the animation is still crude at times (David's young!) but overall JoJo has it.

I thought that Iggy was silly. Bad-silly, but lightly so. Didn't care for the fart humor. Didn't much care for any of the humor built around Iggy, in fact. But that isn't to say that I outright dislike the sixth member of the team. The jury's still out on that one. I want to like Iggy and I'm going into Episode 26 very much with the hope that I will.

I was a little surprised by the fact that Iggy is meant to be an ordinary dog. Whether it's Araki's character design, Studio David's drawing style, or both, Iggy struck me as something halfway in between a normal dog and one of Dio's human-animal chimeras. Like, I thought that we would be dealing here with a human trapped in a dog's body or a dog with human levels of intelligence. But at least for now, it seems like Iggy is canonically no more human than Forever the orangutan was in the first season.

No major thoughts on Iggy's Stand. It's an enormous mechanical canine with Native American headdress or some such.

I have much more to say about the plot and character developments for Team Dio. For starters, it's an interesting bit of information that Iggy soaks up The Fool card slot and that this leaves only one Tarot card remaining -- the World. Joseph speculates that the World belongs to Dio but confesses that he no longer knows what to believe now that the team has discovered that there are more Stand users waiting for them.

That's the next thing I found really interesting with this episode -- that we have nine new Stand users waiting for us in addition to the presumed Dio Brando. I haven't looked anything up as I want to be surprised by what's to come, but from my brief research last summer or fall with Tarot cards when I was trying to see who all or what all we had left, I do know that there is more than one standard when it comes to Tarot cards -- and that the original list of Stands we've encountered so far has corresponded with the most rudimentary or basic of those Tarot card lists. It's the one that everyone could probably agree on, the one that no one who takes Tarot cards seriously is going to accuse of being made-up nonsense. But beyond it, there were other lists. "Expansions," as I like to call them. And I'm betting that the nine new enemies our heroes have to face possess Stands that correlate with one of these expansions.

Water, apparently, is one of them. It's interesting that something so basic as Water didn't make its way into the original set of Tarot cards, but a) there you have it; and b) that's probably exactly the thinking that went into adding it to whatever expansion it probably belongs to. It makes me wonder if we'll see other elements as well, such as Earth, Wind, and Fire. For now, though, we have Water -- and it's a pretty interesting Stand. Combat-wise, it doesn't bring too much new to the table -- it poses similar threats to our team that we've seen from other Stands, most recently the Stand that appeared in Episodes 23 and 24. Able to cover great distances quickly, able to amputate victims with ease, able to threaten the heroes with death by asphyxiation ... the list could go on. But Water can do so much more, I feel, and I think we're seeing some hints of that already. We'll have to see what else, if anything, is showcased in Episode 26 before the Water user is killed or sent packing.

Finally: Kakyouin. While I'm still on guard re:perma-damage in the JoJo universe after Araki's bait-and-switch with Avdol, I'd like to think that Araki -- the man who gave us permanently-killed Jonathan, the man who gave us permanently-killed Caesar, the man who gave us permanently-amputated Joseph -- means business when he goes so far as to blind one of the members of the team as soon as they set foot in Egypt. It doesn't mean much if it's magically healed next episode. It means a whole hell of a lot more if it's like, "Look: this is Egypt. Welcome to Egypt. Turn back now if you know what's good for you. All that lies ahead is death and despair." Barely an hour into Egypt and already one of the team may be permanently blinded. And a 16, 17-year old boy at that! His whole life ahead of him and already he may be permanently blinded.

I like Kakyouin. So in that sense, I don't want him to be blind. I want him to get his sight back, and if the ED credits are anything to go by then it seems likely that he will. He doesn't have the stereotypical appearance of a blind man in any of the ED's cels, let alone a newly-blinded man, nor does he have any signs of recent injury to the eye like bandages or eye shields. But who knows! That could just be there to fool me. We'll have to see.

If I had to bet money right now, given Araki's demonstrated weakness right now with Avdol's recent resurrection , I'd place the odds at 9:1 against Kakyouin remaining blind. 9 that he gets his sight back / never lost it to start with, 1 that he's lost it and lost it permanently.

[Talon87]

Pokémon x JJBA SC crossover fanart.

Spoiler: show

It's pretty darn good. My only complaint, but it's a big one, is that they made Dio Cynthia instead of making Dio Gary. Gary as the rival makes the best sense for Dio (if not Giovanni or another crime boss), and it's weird to have Gary be on the team as Kakyouin as if he were Joseph's grandson and not Joutarou.

But still. This is pretty amusing.

[Talon87]

I've been watching weekly and discussing the series with AK2, but haven't found the time of motivation to re-discuss it here. So much time has passed though that I feel I should weigh in.

So far, the story's been entertaining. Very silly at times, though. ^^; Very, very silly. It's such an unusual combination of graphic violence and pre-teen humor.

The name changes continue. I don't even remember Oingo and Boingo's English names because they were so difficult to spell and the Japanese audio kept using "Oingo" and "Boingo" anyway.

Mariah was ridiculously physically attractive.

Spoiler: show

Emphasis on "was," I suppose. ^^;

Most of the villains so far have had varying degrees of sociopathy or otherwise villainous natures, but we've also seen a number of them displaying fierce loyalty to Dio. It is pretty crazy just how powerful the aura of charisma he exudes is.

Spoiler: show

Favorite serious scene so far was probably Polnareff vs. Anubis at the ruins. Favorite comedy scene so far was probably the chain of events in Anubis's death.

I might provide more detailed thoughts later but for now I wanted to at least offer this much, to indicate that I am still watching and that I find the series to be entertaining. It's no 10 out of 10, but it's a fun little series.

[Doppleganger]

Araki gets a lot weirder in later parts, but Part III is the last edition where you get "curiously kiddie" along with "chaotically carnalicious". The childish bent sort of ends here, so enjoy it while it lasts!

[Talon87]

Just finished Episode 35. Thoughts:

Spoiler: show

I found the episodes (34 & 35) very entertaining to watch. In good ways, there was much similar to Fukumoto's Kaiji. But ultimately, Araki's "Kaiji" is a poor man's Kaiji. :\ Joutarou's bluff, while efficacious in the end, could have just as easily -- and much more believably -- epically backfired. When Kaiji or other characters in Kaiji have bluffed, it's been so much more believable, required no suspension of disbelief. But in the case of Joutarou vs. D'Arby, it was just ridiculous beyond belief that he'd not only bet his own soul like that on such an uncertain hand but Avdol's, Kakyouin's, and his mother's as well. D'Arby's only real fuck up was that he anted too much before passing the torch to Joutarou; if he had only wagered three chips, forced Joutarou to bluff-ante there, and then gotten to see Joutarou's hand revealed after folding -- and at the meager loss of three chips -- he would've known Joutarou for the weak bluffer he is and proceeded to clean him up royally next hand (or two; no need to rush things, just in case of traps).

I dunno ... I'll simply reiterate that I found the episode to be both entertaining and exciting but that it was a weaker version of Fukumoto-sensei's tales.

[Doppleganger]

Oh? We're at the D'Arby match already?!

Spoiler: show

I can't say for the anime's SC just yet, but while I found the OVA's depiction to be pretty good, I have to admit it wasn't quite up to the suspense of Kaiji. There is one trick to it, though. D'Arby recognized something about Star Platinum that completely legitimizes his reaction, but it takes away from Jotaro's accomplishment and is never explicitly outlined in D'Arby's thoughts or at the end of the manga. It's just something that you'd notice on a re-watch, and it definitely subtracts away some of the "poor-man's" feel of disappointment from that scene.

I will point out the issue at the end of the anime.

[Talon87]

Just saw Episode 36. (Last week's episode.)

Spoiler: show

Hahaha, oh man, this was pretty great. What a weird, silly take on the whole "Fate vs. Free Will" conflict we see in fiction so often. I am seriously intrigued by what is going to come in between the episode's final event and the outcome predicted by Mondatta's/Boingo's book, ridiculous as Hol Horse's current predicament is.

[Talon87]

And now just saw Episode 37. (This week's episode.)

Spoiler: show

Pretty great. So weird and silly but in a good way. So exciting too. What a blend.

Only disappointment was that Mondatta/Boingo is suddenly given a scene displaying his change of heart, which we really didn't need but which was very welcome, only for Araki to torpedo it two seconds later with Iggy's attack. It's like, why even do the scene to begin with if you're just gonna do that?

Aside from that, this episode along with 36 was some of the best lighthearted excitement in the history of the franchise. Quite nice.

[Talon87]

Just watched 38.

Spoiler: show

Fantastic. 9 out of 10 episode, easily, for the genre of adventure and the subgenre of Shounen Jump adventure. This was just really great all around. Exciting. The pacing. The animation. All of it.

Man, JoJo's been knocking it out of the park these past few weeks!

Sleepy + not too much I can think of to comment on that isn't just regurgitation of the plot. But if you've got questions or things you want to discuss, shoot.

For reference, this was Part 1 (of 2?) of Iggy vs. Pet Shop.

[Doppleganger]

That fight didn't exist in the OVA!

I'm a bit torn between the manga fight and the anime. On the one hand, I thought the manga, being the first edition and Araki still not fully mature as a writer, had its fair share of silliness.

Spoiler: show

Pet Shop himself as an analog to Iggy fit this criteria. Sure, animals with Stands was shown to exist with Iggy, but I really hate it when villains pair off due to similarities between them. Female villains fight female villains. Melee fighters fight melee fighters. Sniper duels. Pet Shop's existence, while possible, didn't really feel organic to the story.

It's a good fight though. Not my favourite.

But we're right in the most famous part of Stardust Crusaders, and a big part of why in spite of its pace and flaws, it's one of the most beloved Jojo story arcs. The combat from the moment the Jojos step into Egypt is very, very good.

[SW!FT]

So I've watched Phantom Blood and Battle Tendency over the past month and a half or so, and I'm very proud of myself because this is the first anime that
1) Spark hasn't threatened me with violence if I don't watch and
2) I heard about myself and pursued it by myself.

So technically this is MY first anime, even though I have watched bits and pieces and even whole series before. Anyway, after it was mentioned in the beginning of the thread, I immediately started noticing the censorship more, as I'm currently in the beginning - middle of Stardust Crusaders. It is, as others have said before, very annoying and unnecessary. That settled, I really have no other true gripes with the show. It's paced rather well, the characters are interesting enough and even though I miss Hamon in SC, I have to admit the Stands are pretty badass and Hamon may have been a little overexplored. Whatever. Anyway, great show, glad this thread exists, can't wait to watch more.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by SW!FT

So I've watched Phantom Blood and Battle Tendency over the past month and a half or so, and I'm very proud of myself because this is the first anime that
1) Spark hasn't threatened me with violence if I don't watch and
2) I heard about myself and pursued it by myself.

So technically this is MY first anime, even though I have watched bits and pieces and even whole series before. Anyway, after it was mentioned in the beginning of the thread, I immediately started noticing the censorship more, as I'm currently in the beginning - middle of Stardust Crusaders. It is, as others have said before, very annoying and unnecessary. That settled, I really have no other true gripes with the show. It's paced rather well, the characters are interesting enough and even though I miss Hamon in SC, I have to admit the Stands are pretty badass and Hamon may have been a little overexplored. Whatever. Anyway, great show, glad this thread exists, can't wait to watch more.

SO NO CHI NO SA DA ME! JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOJO!

Pretty cool to hear that someone new is watching the show with us. But it's even cooler to hear that you enjoyed the thread! Thank you! On behalf of everyone who's partaken in discussions in this thread so far, thanks very much! Sorry to disappoint you (but I also want to get it out of the way ahead of time! >.<), but you'll find that the discussion really kinda dries up in two respects: after the first season (Phantom Blood + Battle Tendency), I think we lost bbb and maybe one other person; and then after the second season (Stardust Crusaders Part I), we lost everyone else, myself included! I've been mostly discussing the series via telephone with AK2 and procrastinating on red-carpet-treatment posts for JoJo for ages, to the point of not really wanting to write them anymore anyway. ^^; I scrapped that a few weeks ago in favor of a return to less-glamorous posts (as something good is better than nothing at all! ^^; ), so you should be seeing more of me (and at least Doppel) in the coming weeks. But yeah ... unfortunately you'll hit a dry patch of discussion posts circa Episode 25 of Stardust Crusaders.

I'll be watching 39 here in a second since AK2's itching to discuss it and I won't lie that I am pretty interested in seeing it too.

Kudos on your first "I Found It Myself! :3 And It Was Good Too!" anime. JoJo may not be the greatest show ever in my own book, but it has time and again surprised me by just how great it can be. It contains some of the most memorable moments (plural) of any anime I have ever seen. When it's good, it's great. (S1 Episode 20 final scene, man. Man.)

[Doppleganger]

I hope to talk a lot more for Part IV+. I've mentioned it elsewhere, but the only Jojo I read personally after Stardust Crusaders was Steel Ball Run (Part VII) - which is probably the best Jojo part ever. Parts IV, V, and VI are fairly unknown territory to me.

[Talon87]

Stardust Crusaders Ep39:

Spoiler: show

What can I say: another week, another 9 out of 10-quality episode. This was fantastic.

The episode is clearly divided into two portions. First is the continuation of Iggy vs. Pet Shop, which feels like it was maybe one-third to one-half of the episode. Second is the return of Kakyouin and Team Joestar's discovery of Dio's lair, which felt like it was the remaining one-half to two-thirds of the episode. Each of these chapters felt like they were 9s out of 10, they were that good. Taking them in turn ...

I really loved the battle between Iggy and Pet Shop. As I expressed to AK2, I feel like Iggy well symbolizes what it's like to be a member of Team Joestar while Pet Shop well symbolizes what it's like to be a member of Team Dio. But it isn't just convenient symbolism that sells this fight so well for me: it's the fight itself, the actual combat and the tactics involved, which makes it one of the most enjoyable in recent memory.

AK2 said it first, and I'll repeat after him: I wasn't expecting Iggy to die, but I wasn't expecting him to lose a limb either. While it's true that the universe of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure has, much like Star Wars's, made the loss of a limb not feel that bad, it's still pretty bad, it's still not something you want to have happen to you. So poor Iggy loses one of his two front legs and will now have to settle for a robotic prosthesis provided him by the Speedwagon Foundation. Worse still -- but amazing for our plot -- he doesn't magically get it off camera in between this week's episode and next's. They're on Dio's doorstep now (see below) and so Iggy will have to contend, for the remainder of this story arc, with having one less leg than he's accustomed to.

The animation during this second half of Iggy vs. Pet Shop was just wonderful. I hold back from saying "phenomenal," as I'll reserve that for other studios' most magnificent works, but man if this still wasn't great enough, solid enough, to go toe to toe with some of anime's best studios right now. While the animation in JJBA isn't always the greatest, and is very often subpar by modern standards, you can really tell just how much this production is a labor of love -- and just how much the men and women who so love this story must in particular love the fight scenes, such is their level of dedication to making them exquisite. Even the static screencaps look great, but seeing it all in motion makes you appreciate how Iggy vs. Pet Shop in Episode 39 was just one grade less than cinematic quality. Really, really great stuff for television.

Kakyouin's return was handled marvelously well. Like, I didn't expect to get so emotional over it, but the way the production staff executed the scene was just so great that I couldn't help but to become a bit emotionally involved in the characters' bromantic joy at being reunited with their bro Kakyouin. I noted to AK2 that I especially liked how a subtle bit of special attention was placed on Joutarou's welcoming of Kakyouin. It reminds us, I told him, that these two characters are same-age peers, teenage boys of 17, that while most of it unfortunately is left to happen off camera they very probably bonded the most with one another than either of them bonded with any other character in the squad.

One thing that really surprised me about this second half/two-thirds of the episode was the fact that Iggy doesn't exit the story here. The moment they showed the Egyptian boy rescuing Iggy from the river, I thought to myself, "This is it. This is how Iggy exits the tale. Defeats Pet Shop, but is mortally wounded himself. Yet is saved by a boy who in turn Iggy had saved, a boy whose own two dogs were killed and devoured by Pet Shop. The boy gets a replacement pet, and Iggy stays by the boy's side for a multitude of reasons. Good-bye, New York. Hello, Cairo." When this didn't immediately happen and we see Iggy leading Team Joestar to Dio's lair, I still thought, "Well, once he takes them there, then he'll turn tail and leave. Go back to the Speedwagon Foundation to get a new leg. Then maybe/probably live with the Egyptian boy." But no. Much to my surprise, Iggy presses on. Does this mean he'll die before he even gets the chance to have a new leg? Does it mean he'll be the most epic wild card of the series thus far? Who knows.

Another thing that I really loved about this episode was the part where, once Team Joestar has reached the mansion, the narrator takes it in turn to explore each individual character's reasons for being there. Something so simple that was rendered so effective by the music, delivery of the script, and the script lines themselves. It just felt really epic.

I think everybody loves the part where Joutarou then says, "In other words, if we beat the shit out of Dio right here and now, it will all be over." I've found Joutarou super lacking as a protagonist compared with his grandfather and great-great-grandfather, but even I was grinning inside and out at this line.

[captainmisato]

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

I hope to talk a lot more for Part IV+. I've mentioned it elsewhere, but the only Jojo I read personally after Stardust Crusaders was Steel Ball Run (Part VII) - which is probably the best Jojo part ever. Parts IV, V, and VI are fairly unknown territory to me.

Hi, long time reader, first time poster, and big big fan of Jojo's. I hope to get more involved in the thread later on, but as someone who has read parts I-IV so far (and working on part V but shitty fanslation uuuuuugggggh), let me say that I would place it at or above where part III is. Like part III, it has its weaknesses, but overall it was a very enjoyable story with memorable characters as III was. You can tell that Araki's writing gets better, though--fight scenes especially are very well written and intense, ranking with the best of III in my opinion. There are many, many moments that I can't wait to see animated--hoping that they continue adapting the series at all, and that they'll be able to continue the true-to-the-manga approach, considering it's longer than SC by like ~20 chapters.

[Talon87]

I've been watching the series weekly. Been incredibly strapped for time as of late and so that's partly the reason why I haven't afforded a new post since the Episode 39 one. Also, if I'm being completely honest, no episode has so thoroughly excited nor satisfied me since Episode 39.

But I have a few things to say about the latest episode, and so ...

Stardust Crusaders Ep42:

Spoiler: show

First off, the localized names. I think it should be obvious to everyone watching, but just in case the Engrish pronunciations make it go over your head, here you go:

• In the localization he's called Cool Ice, but his original name is just straight up Vanilla Ice.
• In the localization he's called Billie Jean, but his original name is Kenny G.

Looks like they worried about litigation once again when bringing JoJo over to America and thus the names got watered down or in some cases altogether changed.

Second off, Avdol's second death. This scene unfortunately suffers for a crapton of the Boy Who Cried Wolf effect. =\ I enjoyed it somewhat ... especially in the immediate here-and-now of Avdol turning around and subsequently Polnareff crying out for Avdol to show himself ... but the entire affair was just polluted by cynicism. =\ "We know Avdol isn't permanently dead. Too much show was made of his arms having been chopped off, and we know that in the JoJo universe the loss of an arm is not immediately lethal." While this is mere speculation and we can't know for certain, the sneak peek doesn't help matters by pretty much spilling the beans that Avdol is still alive, what with his voice actor reading a number of lines during that sneak peek that are clearly lines of Avdol's from next week's episode. So like ... yeaaaaaaah. I'm disappointed. Fake-killing Avdol once was bad enough, but fake-killing him twice just isn't acceptable. It isn't the sort of event that belongs to a good story.

I did like the music. Although I must say it wasn't on the same level as Avdol's first death's music was, and that in turn wasn't on the same level as Caesar's death's music was. Oh well. ^^;

Third, I wasn't too thrilled with the plot contrivance that Dio is only one blood session away from taking complete control over Jonathan Joestar's body and yet he refuses to drink anyone else's blood but those he deems worthy. It totally fits with Dio's personality, don't get me wrong! I just don't like how convenient it is, how utterly ... Western comic book villain-esque it is. The sort of thing that Alan Moore makes fun of in Watchmen, here presented by Araki with sincere hope that we'll like it. C'mon, man. ^^; No, we won't like it. It's silly. The villains always undermine themselves like this in comic books and kids shows and it's just so stupid. Oh well ...

Fourth, I was surprised by the fact that the plot arc with D'Arby ended as quickly as it did given that last week's episode hinted via sneak peek that we'd still be fighting D'Arby next time and that we'd have a new two-parter (or even more-parter) to go through with him. While I weakly considered the possibility of yet another "boss is dealt with in the first five minutes; new plot takes over from there," I ruled it out for a number of reasons. Guess I was wrong to do so! ^^;

Fifth, I'm a little disappointed by the fact that Joseph wasn't the one to defeat D'Arby singlehandedly ... but I can at least accept Araki's compromise that it took the combined efforts of Joutarou and Joseph Joestar to beat him. That at least was nice. 'Cause I was so disappointed in Araki for penning that yet again Joutarou saves the day because he's the Invincible or Flawless Protagonist -- at least, I was disappointed that this appeared to be the case as of the end of Episode 40 (by which time it was clear, largely thanks to the sneak peek, that Kakyouin was going to lose). I dunno ... I had really wanted Joutarou to lose, Joseph to take over, Joseph to figure out a way to beat D'Arby, and best of all for Joseph to do his classic routine where he says, "I know what you're going to say next" and proceeds to say what his recipient was going to say next.