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Old 08-21-2016, 07:19 PM   #351
Talon87
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You guys were there for this (I thought). I discussed it tons with AK2 over the phone while it was happening in real time. Took place over the course of months. I guess you've either forgotten, or else this was only ever something I discussed (a crapton) with AK2 and never here on UPN. Hmm.

I really, really want to respect Hayashibara Megumi. Living legend. And I really love both hers and Miki Shin'ichirou's work in anime. Roy Mustang? Ayanami Rei? C'mon, man. Classic characters. But it's hard for me to deny that they camouflaged their concerns about lost income with emotionally manipulative claims about how much the Rocket Trio meant to them. From passive aggressive outbursts on their Rocket-themed radio show to various interviews they provided during BW, the voice actors maintained that they were hurt by being written out of the show and that the Rocket Trio meant the world to them. They didn't like the loss of the comic relief, they didn't like the reduced appearances, and they wanted the studio to meet their demands. (Fork in the read. Each paragraph carries on from this thought but in very different directions. When you finish 1, I'd suggest hopping back up here to re-orient yourself and then carrying on to 2. 2 doesn't follow naturally from 1 whatsoever.)

*1* But the simple fact of the matter is, Hayashibara Megumi has been downright lazy, from a fan's perspective, when it comes to voice acting in the '00s and '10s. She was a huge presence in the '90s, then she landed the goose-that-lays-the-golden-eggs role of Musashi / Jessie near the end of the decade, and from there ... she voiced only the occasional bit character (like Keitarou's aunt in Love Hina) but otherwise just did Jessie. Miki Shin'ichirou, similar situation. Sure, he voiced Roy Mustang (woot), but the Mustangs are few and far between. Like Hayashibara, he's mostly stuck to bit roles and then James. James is his only reliable, continuous, "I can count on this each week" source of income. And the only such one he's had for the past twenty years. It's no stretch to surmise, for either of the two of them, that they've gotten accustomed to collecting their "Pokémon pension" and just living off of that. "Other roles I do, they pay for vacations. Pokémon, it pays for the bills and our kids' college." Hard not to imagine it's this way for them. And that, when they saw their activity reduced to one-sixth of what it had used to be, they were scared, angry, and concerned about only receiving one-sixth as much of the "pension" as they had been used to for fifteen years.

*2* Well, it didn't happen. Or at least not initially. Somewhere around the demarcation which separates S1 from S2, the person or people calling these sorts of shots changed. You can see it in the writing, in various things with S2. A lot, a lot, a lot of artifacts of S1 ideas that were then reinterpreted through an S2 lens. With the new head honcho(s) in charge of S2, the Rocket Trio VAs were able to secure a compromise. One, the Rockets returned to being comic relief yet were kept competent(?). And two, the Rockets went from appearing in only one out of every five or six episodes to appearing in one out of every two. No, it's not every single episode like it was until BW, but it's still something.

(Merging the forked roads back together now.) I think that the tail end of S2, and the whole of Decolora Adventure, was an experimental compromise. ShoPro was testing the waters, for the sake of the TRio. "Fans told us they fucking hated your characters' guts and wanted them to die. That's why we turned you serious and reduced you to only appearing once every five or six episodes. But you say we heard wrong. Alright. Fine. Let's test it out. Let's turn you back into idiots, mostly, and let's ramp up your appearances. And let's see how people handle it." Well, Decolora Adventure was generally well received received okay as far as TR goes. (People hated it for bringing about a pointlessly premature ending to Episode N. People questioned -- I still question! -- why it even ever happened, why we didn't simply carry on with Episode N all the way until September 2013. We'll likely never know.) If you divide the fandom into three camps ...
  1. people who will always hate Comic Relief Team Rocket
  2. people who are pendulums on the matter
  3. people who will always love Comic Relief Team Rocket
(armchair numbers) 10% of us have always been in the first camp, 10% have always been in the third camp, and a whopping 80% are in the middle. By the end of Sinnoh, the 90% not in Camp 3 ... were all echoing Camp 1's opinions. That is to say, the near entirety of the vacillators were so burnt out on Comic Relief Team Rocket, or CRTR, that they needed a break from them. Same deal with Brock. So ShoPro baleeted Brock. And they deleted CRTR. But it didn't take long for "absence makes the heart grow fonder" to kick in, and by BW S2's end, the vacillators had mostly swung back towards missing TR. So let's say, by Decolora Adventure's launch, you had 25% of people voicing hate for CRTR and 75% voicing love of CRTR. That means that Decolora Adventure ... met its audience's desires pretty fucking well. It was a compromise that haters, like myself, were begrudgingly accepting ... while CRTR lovers were over the moon and demanding more.

So we get to XY, and ShoPro's made their decision: "based on polling from Decolora Adventure, we've decided to bring back CRTR permanently. You guys are back on for inclusion in 95% of episodes by next year. We'll start you off 'slow' with less frequent appearances, but by 2014, yeah, you're totally back on for appearances in almost every single episode." And that's how it's been. TR has been shoehorned into many episodes they have no business being in, including (SADLY) a number of gym battles where all they do is waste air time, like they've always done. Are there still some episodes in XY where they're absent? Thankfully, yes. But they're only the ones where shoehorning them in would just be ruinous. Otherwise, they're there.

In summary, then ...

Do I think ShoPro made their decision based on the TRio's salaries? No. I don't think this has ever been about cutting costs. I think they reduced TR's presence in BW because they thought it was what the fans wanted. I think they increased TR's presence in XY because they thought it was what the fans wanted. Either way, it's always been about the fans, i.e. the ratings.

Do I think the TRio made their decision based on their salaries? Absolutely. They don't frame it that way. They've always framed it around emotional attachment to the characters, be it their own attachment or their fans'. But I think the reality is that Pokémon is their solitary stable source of income, i.e. it's the one and only gig that they can count on being there week after week, year after year. And I think that acted largely out of self-preservation, legitimately concerned that they would have a hard time paying the bills unless a) ShoPro reversed course or else b) the job market was kind to them with new gigs. And as most humans in their situation would do, they pushed for A before flirting with B. After all, why work hard to compete with an ocean of young upstart VAs when a little bit of tactical bitching and nagging on a radio show can get you back your easy-as-pie collect-a-cheque job?
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Old 08-21-2016, 07:41 PM   #352
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If Jesse/James are the only major roles left for Miki and Hayashibara, it's easier for me to sympathize with them, because the Japanese CV world is brutal, especially now more than ever. Although with Miki it's less true because he gets other roles like FSN's Assassin, and Hayashibara stars in every Slayers that happens to pop up from time to time. The income isn't consistent, but they still carry huge brand names and enormous fanbases/online presence. They'll have to forgive me for telling them to bugger off, too.

As for me, what I've said before is mostly true - I've never really hated the TR trio that much because it reminds me of grinding in the games. I just assumed Ash's Pokemon got target practice dealing with TR all this time.

It did upset me where the Rocket Trio can design things like WMD's, and these abilities are not lampooned by the show at any point, nor are they seen as legit threats that shock/terrify newcomers to the cast. I recall this happening early in XY though, with some robot the Rockets designed that Clemmont was impressed by, that managed to deal with Pikachu really well, but had the weakness of being unplugged and useless. It's more the inconsistency if anything.

I loved episodes like The Ghost of Maiden's Peak where the Gastly had magic. Going off the page for the purpose of storytelling is great. A big reason why I enjoyed watching Star Trek TOS even though some of the episodes violate conventional science fiction standards. Plausibility was maintained, but believability bent, for the purpose of the story.
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Old 08-21-2016, 08:08 PM   #353
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Early XY had a lot of promises for character development like that. James's de facto masters in mechanical engineering went largely unexplored throughout Best Wishes. So when it resurfaced in early XY, it was a sight for sore eyes, yes, even mine. Then they kicked it up a notch by having the new male traveling companion also be an engineer whose expertise lies in robotics. Would they have the two cross paths? Why, yes! Yes, they would! They have that early episode you're recalling where Citron discovers James' robotics work in the garage. And Citron comments on it, saying how impressed he is with it, how the person who designed this must really know a thing or two about robotics, etc, etc. It was really cute and I wanted to see a lot more come of it.

Nothing did. Like most of the early promising character threads, the James-Citron robotics buddies character thread was severed circa Episode 40. In all the time since then, I think we've seen it revisited only twice, maybe three times. The only one I can recall with certainty is the recent karakuri festival episode, the one with the Rube Goldberg devices. And even when we watched it, the fandom collectively proclaimed that it was "great to see this again," i.e. we hadn't seen it in a long time. I feel like maaaaaaaaybe we saw it in the episode with the barren wasteland with the Litleo and its father Pyroar, the one where they were planting seeds and the Rockets made a robot that was especially impervious to high temperatures, but that's only a weak feeling I have. Aside from that, I honestly can't think of any episodes from 2016 or 2015 that featured the character thread. I honestly think the next most recent time we did see it was in some 2014 episode.
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Old 08-23-2016, 11:01 AM   #354
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I'm so mad
Spoiler: show
about Ash losing but at the same time I kind of knew it was going to happen.
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Old 08-24-2016, 03:56 AM   #355
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Ash losing is sadly par for the course. We can always hope but it's unlikely to happen. It was a decent battle though even if Alain is just every animé fanboy's wet dream about how they'd beat the league.

Presumably Ash'll mosey off to the latest region and get a hula outfit for his Snorlax after the latest seizure nukes his brain cells.

In other news I was watching some of the Indigo League on the train. It's still a really, really shitty TV show even back then but man if the puns aren't top tier.

"Looks like Bulbasaur can't cut it"

"Make Bulba soar!"

Lol.
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Old 08-24-2016, 04:08 AM   #356
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Disgusted

I honestly can't think of a better way to summarize my feelings about this loss.

I have been following this anime for many years now, since the Fall of 1998 in fact.

It is the reason I first joined UPN many years ago, and was my first anime.

18 years later, I can't help but shake my head at the writers.

Talon and I have had the Pokemon anime as a recurring and prominent piece of our frequent discussions both online and over the phone for many years now. While not as rich as our discussions about Romance of the Three Kingdoms or Kaiji, I think if you look at the last 18 years, there must have easily been discussions that total to over hundreds of hours.

I have no regrets about this, as these discussions have been great for stress relief from irl health concerns and drama, and there is more to this story than the results of Ash's journey....but I can't help but feel disgusted.

Yes, disgusted.

I have dropped the Pokemon anime two times before. A third is not in my crystal ball of near future gazing, but I do feel like bringing up why the second time I dropped the show, as I believe it will be the reason why fans may drop the show over the next few months, if not immediately, and why this may occur in the future.

The first time I dropped the show was at the beginning of Johto. That was all on me, as I reflected on being a 15 year old who enjoyed this medium of entertainment and was miserable about other things going on in my life. I wanted to see what I could do to "improve" myself. In the end, I realized that one hobby wasn't making or breaking me, and Pokemon brought me a twenty minute outlet once a week which helped me through rough times.

The second time was due to frustration and...disgust! This was at the end of the Battle Frontier. Ash had lost in Kanto, but I was not upset about this loss due to spoilers which I looked for. I was new to Pokemon, and also knew Ash would be redeemed in the Orange League. Although the Orange League victory was ignored in Johto, like it never occurred, I had high hopes for Hoenn. Yes, I am skipping ahead to that, as Johto gave me the satisfaction that Ash finally defeated his five year (irl) rival, and his next opponent won by a close victory- having only defeated Ash once our hero had made his way to the Top 8. The excitement of a new region with new sidekicks and animation numbed any disappointment I felt.

Hoenn was...interesting. I know that Talon hasn't seen it yet, so for the rest of this paragraph and the following two:
Spoiler: show
I was entertained, but let down. May had not one the Grand Festival, and the introduction of a female protagonist who actually had an interesting role into the plot made me hope that May's story would be wrapped up with an awesome gift-wrap. Her loss made me worried about Ash's prospects in the Hoenn League. "Why should the writers let him win, if the main female character has lost?" "Should I think of this in obsessive compulsive understanding, or instead expect a victory for Ash because he isn't a beginner like May, but a veteran?" These thoughts followed me into the Hoenn League, and I was angry to see the loss to Meowth in boots, as cool as that character was. My sister and I screamed at the screen when we saw Pikachu fall...right when it looked like Meowth in boots would be the one to fall over.

Fast forward to the Battle Frontier, I got over things fast. The battle against an Articuno with a brief return of Charizard was truly epic. The frontier Brains all provided great battles, and it looked like May would have a chance in Kanto to win the Grand Festival. That was not to be. But on the bright side.... Ash defeated Brandon, and was offered the chance to be a Frontier Brain! Not only that, but Pikachu took down a Regice by himself!

Then came the mother of kick in the balls.Ash lost to Gary…again. Having turned down the offer to be a Frontier Brain, the writers would have to think of a way to reset Ash for the next generation of Pokemon. Would it be a soft landing? Hell no. May again would not win the Grand Festival, and reeling off of that, we saw Ash at his peak lose in a battle to a rival who he had defeated some time ago, and had only grown stronger since that time. No, new evolved form of Electabuzz or not, this was unacceptable. The straw had been broken, and I was dropping Pokemon again.


What cemented the decision to drop Pokemon after the events above was when I peeked (I did feel the need to finish Hoenn up to the very end) at Serebii for summaries of Sinnoh once in a while. I ended up watching the first three episodes of Hoenn. Having thought Paul was a –new- trainer, I couldn’t stand seeing Ash lose to this n00b and of all things, to the PRE-evolved form of something which rubbed me the wrong way so recently. That was it. I read the summary of important events 8 months later, but after that, completely dropped the show.

By the end of my undergraduate years in college, I was facing homelessness and uncertainty after the passing of my mother, and few prospects in becoming a teacher until earning an MA first. One night, to get my mind off of a gigantic final paper I was working on, I curiously looked at the preview of Dawn’s final in the Grand Festival.

It looked....very good! The girl was in the FINALS and looked like she may win. When that summer began and I found shelter and breathing room to prepare for graduate school, I used the free time to pick the show back up. My second hiatus was over. I enjoyed the story-telling of Sinnoh, and felt that the Gym Battles were solid, Ash had his best rival yet, and that Contests has been perfected, to name a few pluses. I picked and chose "important" episodes, and the episodes which featured Paul. It was so enjoyable though, that I found myself watching every episode, albeit out of order, and while the Sinnoh League was occurring. The battle against Paul was a classic, and the loss to Tobias was cushioned for me due to the fact that Ash had advanced a rank once again, and I discovered the youtube channel for TheInsaneGameFreak. Terrel's videos were hilarious, and the new writing format for Unova and the need for that de-stress that the show brought kept me tuning in. On top of that, Talon and I began discussing the show together, and so it felt like a fun sociable activity.

Unova came and went for me, and while I was pissed about the drop down to Top 8 and the lackluster waste of time that DA proved to be, I was excited by XY due to the fact that these were the first Pokemon games I had bought since Ruby, and Serena and the possibility of armourshipping kept me excited.

Over the last 3 years, I have found four youtubers who I follow every week (convert the videos into MP3 format... they are great to listen to while on a jog), and have found the reactions and commentaries (and the more recent revelation of how involved, connected, and big the Pokemon fandom is on youtube) to be part of the experience of enjoying the Pokemon anime.

This-finally-brings us to the present, and so, drum roll please:




************************************************** ***************Our present time has brought us to a point where armourshipping has been teased, made fun of, and trolled at by the writers. Shame on them for teasing us... that simple.

Shame on them for having Serena come so close to victory, and in my *opinion* do BETTER than the reigning Kalos Queen... only to not achieve her goal.

What about Ash? Yes, it's naive to think that he will win this time...but.... the fact that he could have maybe defeated the regional Champion if interruptions by Team Rocket had not occurred gave the fans false hope. The fact that Ash had a fully evolved team (save Pikachu, by default) for the first time, gave us more false hope. Finally, the rushing of the League, which I speculated with Talon could have meant the freeing up of time to challenge the Elite Four and Diantha, provided more deceit and false hope. Add to that, Alain had defeated Malva in a battle, and there was no WAY the writers would have Ash lose to Alain a THIRD time, right? Right? They especially wouldn't throw him into the League at the 11th hour to pull a Tobias with his Charizard, right? ..............

Well, it happened. Ash lost. Not only that, but the writers did the VERY, VERY, annoying thing where both Pokemon are left standing, the opponent's Pokemon is about to fall over.... catches itself, and then out of the blue Ash's Pokemon falls down in defeat. I really, really, hate this gimmick, and have found out to be the most annoying gimmick with this anime for many years now. It is part of what I think of when I use the word "disgust."

I got over it fast though. Seriously guys, like in 2 seconds fast. I was 51% sure at my worst that Ash would lose, and if we re-winded back to a year ago, before all of the false hope dropped by the writers, I would have been 95% sure that Ash would not win. I was hoping and sort of expecting a 2nd place win, around a year ago. This would bring Ash back up to his achievements, and give him a badge of progress. Due to all of this, the loss was a chip of wood off of the tall and large totem pole. I got over it fast. Besides, it wasn't like Ash really got Tobias'ed until the battle with Charizard (i'm referring to the fact that around this point in the battle Bisharp also did a number on Ash's team with those one hit KO moves).

What disgusts me is the fact that the writers pulled this shit with complete disregard to how the fandom would feel. I was entertained, surprised by, and lastly, felt compassion when I heard the reaction of several youtubers who I have always found to be optimistic, excitable, and over the last few months: dead certain that Ash would win.

Please listen to a few of these to see what I mean:
From TheChornick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO1Lm-ZpPEc
From PokemonRangerBoy12: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx0aoShff9w (talk about a BAD DAY!)

And last but not least, by KgPrestige: (just feel free to fast-forward towards the commentary on the end of the battle) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxG2yCAPae0

************************************************** ***************
So what am i trying to convey with this excessively long post/partly autobiographical essay/diatribe against the writers?

1. Well, first of all, this: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x29...an-23a97b80_tv

Watch 6:00-7:00 minute mark.

Ash could have won this and the writers could STILL have him continue on to Aloha. They could have thrown us this bone. Ash will never "advance to the next stage" until he wins the KANTO League. This is why this is so fucked up! EVEN IF THEY WERE TO HAVE ASH LOSE IN ALOHA, THEY COULD HAVE THROWN US THIS BONE!

It would have been a sign of good will. Ash could stay 10. Ash could continue to travel endlessly to each new region indefinitely in order to promote the new games every five years. The Pokemon anime will be 20 years old next April 1st (interestingly enough, I came across a video earlier today that purports that April 1st is Ash's birthday), and another 20 years would be more welcome by the fans if Ash had been given this victory.

2. My second point is redundant, but see the reaction videos I linked to.

3. My final point is what justified the rantings of a 31 year old fan who still enjoys this medium of entertainment: it is shit like this that has had people like me drop the show in the past, and will continue to do so. I don't know what the ratings will look like this Thursday, but I genuinely hope for the show that the Team Flare arc delivers. It will need to be the best regional villain confrontation arc in the shows' history to heal the wounds that the fandom is feeling, the betrayal. Apparently twitter and tumblr have been full of angry posts with people talking about dropping the show!

I for one, will stick around. I think the Team Flare arc (from what I have seen through previews) will deliver. Discussion videos by various youtubers show people to be excited, and focusing on this arc is helping them heal from this loss. The new footage that has come out in regard to Sun and Moon concurrently is making people feel good too. I also want to see how this story ends, and as I said, I was not that surprised to see Ash lose to Alain. Angry. Disgusted. NOT that surprised. Going in with that perspective, the sting didn't effect me too much, just my reaction to how hurt the fans feel. I will buy the new games, and I will indeed watch the show, with a clean slate and open mind. Please do not ask me about musings about Ash's future in the show or this region (if he even goes to this region...as spoilers have not gone out that far).

Before replying to he above, please keep in mind that some folks are trying hard to avoid spoilers involving the new games. If you feel there may be anime equivalence, please keep those thoughts and speculation to yourself.

With that said, I don't blame people who will drop the show for the reason I did over what happened with the transition between the Battle Frontier and Sinnoh. I think it's great that people like Dopple picked the show back up during recent weeks, as there is more to Kalos than where Ash ranks in the League. I will stick around. I hope to see you all too!

On a final note, Kalos can do EVERYTHING right from here on out, but it will never receive more than an 8/10 from me. Why? The deceit and false hope given over how far Ash would make it, and introducing armourshipping only to troll us. I hope that I eat my hat over this statement, but: if your expecting anything to ever blossom between Ash and Serena, even a good bye kiss on the cheek by Serena or Ash having a quick blush moment, i'm afraid that you are falling for the false hope that the writers whip out so often Sp that's one point off over the false hope of the League, and one point off for trolling us with armourshipping.

Here's hoping that the Youtube/Twitter/Tumblr reactions, our posts, and the posts of the greater Pokemon website communities make a blip on the writers' radars. I highly doubt it.

*Note* I am aware of point one and what I speculated with Talon. The writers don't seem to always care though about staying on course (re-writing Team Rocket's past over the years etc), and so I did think a KALOS League win would indeed give Ash the chance to battle the regional Elite Four.

Last edited by AK2; 08-24-2016 at 04:26 AM. Reason: Grammar mistakes
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Old 08-24-2016, 08:38 AM   #357
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I will keep tabs, but I don't think I'll watch the episode like I did the past few. I got over last week quickly, but then un-got over'd it after a day. I'm still bummed and I don't think Rest and Recover are enough to heal a broken heart.

It's interesting that the anime basically said outright that to access the champion league, Ash has to return to Kanto. This seems pretty obvious when you think about it (and everything since losing to Ritchie way back when has been a alternate universe bad end) but logistically how the anime plays out Ash won't be heading back there for a while. So everything Ash does in the other leagues is really irrelevant.

So I'm confused now. I always thought the Battle Frontier was a filler like Orange. But it's actually a part of Hoenn?

...

I want to say XY is like the "5D's" of Pokemon. Anyone concur with that?
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Old 08-24-2016, 09:27 AM   #358
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I feel like I'm unlike a lot of the kiddos watching the show right now. (Spoilers for Episode 38.)

Spoiler: show
The kiddos: furious about Ash's loss, but will probably keep watching the show
Me: not all that upset about Ash's loss, but will probably drop the show early into Alola

For me, Ash's loss in the Kalos League isn't what breaks Pokémon. What breaks Pokémon is how utterly boring it is. The character writing, they don't do it. The plot writing, there's not much they can do to help the fact that it's so utterly predictable. (And predictability is often the bane of good storytelling. Especially for the action-adventure genre.) The animation's far below par for the 2016 course. The voice acting is fine but the actors aren't given any lines worthy of their talents. It's just a really, really boring production with little to draw me in week after week at this point.

Alola is going to be make or break for me. If they stick to the tired formula of Ash being the central character, Ash going on the league circuit collecting gym badges, Ash accompanied by one or two human partners, one of his human partners is a Brock-like character, and the other of his partners is either a Misty/Iris-like character or a May/Dawn/Serena-like character, I can comfortably say I'm done. Not with any great degree of anger or pent-up frustration. Just a placid, unenthusiastic "I'm done." If instead Alola sees the new primary traveling companion, male or female, being the star ... if it sees Ash assuming the role of the Brock/Cilan/Clemont-like character, guiding the newcomer through the world of the league circuit ... if Ash's focus is on researching the evolution which he and Greninja explored in Kalos ... then I would keep watching. And even then, that's still only the tip of the iceberg of what really needs to be done to keep me around long term. Because let's face it: put a new girl in the saddle and we're still reliably predicting wins every first gym match or else second gym match. We're still confident that no gym is made for TV or going to get passed up. We're still confident that she's eventually going to get all eight gym badges, enter the league tournament, etc. And that's problematic. For me to really be kept excited about gym matches, there has to be the real possibility for failure. For meaningful failure.

I'll share an easy enough example. Suppose that when we arrive in Alola, we're in the final third of the league's season. The Hawaiian girl only has n months to get every gym badge in time. She does the math with Ash, and they plot out a route that, if they push themselves to the limit and meet every day's goals, she should just barely achieve the qualifications for entering the league in time. So they set this up, and us adults in the audience are kinda rolling our eyes, going, "Oh, they're never gonna have her fail. " And she does Gyms 1 and 2, and you can write them however you like, but the important point is that she ends up making her deadlines for them and the flame is still alive for an in-time entry of the league tourney. But then she reaches Gym 4, around a year after the show starts ... and she loses. She begs the gym leader for a rematch. He declines. Ash steps in and begs the gym leader's understanding. "Please, give us this rematch!" The gym leader says I'm sorry, I can't do that, {reasons the writers come up with}. Could be that he's cold and believes the little girl needs to learn a hard life lesson. (Ouch. ) Could be that he's sympathetic but he's got to jet immediately for an important engagement he can't call off. Could be that he'd love to but his Pokémon need time to rest up and by the time they're well rested and ready to battle it'll be too late. Whatever. Any plausible reason for why he can't/won't rebattle her on the spot. And Ash tries to console her, but she's inconsolable. She's in tears. Her dream of entering the league tournament has been dashed ... just like that. Ash tells her it's okay, there's always next season, don't worry, etc, etc. But the important point is, she misses out on the league tournament on its first pass. When we'll eventually see her enter, it'll be Pass #2.

Things could be made even more interesting by introducing a compelling rival (friendly or adversarial) who does manage to make the league tournament in time and who even manages to get 1st place. Holy cow. Maybe he could even be Ash's rival rather than hers, and the testament to his prowess, to his equivalency to Ash, is the very fact that he won a league tournament. Well this guy wins the league tournament ... but then he loses to the first of the Elite Four. "Frighteningly powerful," we're told, etc, etc. So he sets his sights on -- you guessed it -- next year, on the next pass of the tournament. And now suddenly our girl wonder, who we've cried for and who we're cheerin' for, she's up against the prospect of having to not only make it in in time for this next season ... but also going up against the reigning title-holder of tournament champion.

There are ways to make it exciting. Ways they're not exploring because they're too scared of deviating from the formula. You can still write your own, made-for-TV script and have it be exciting. You can still keep Ash around and have it be exciting. There are ways to do it. Just ... not what you've been doing for the past three regions. Sinnoh, Unova, and especially Kalos ought not to have played out the way that they did. I can forgive them for making Dawn a May 2.0. I can forgive them for making Iris a Misty 2.0, especially since Best Wishes was in many ways a throwback to Kanto. But I just can't forgive them for squandering Serena's potential as a character and reducing her to May 3.0. Stuff like that, stuff like having Ash yet again enter a league circuit only to fizzle out in the tournament, stuff like not writing compelling characters, human and Pokémon alike ... this is why the show is subpar. This is why I will drop it. Not because Ash failed to become tournament champion. But because the show is just plain boring.

So yeah. I'll give Alola a few weeks, maybe two months tops, and then I'll drop it if it's the same old, same old. Not with anger. Not with glee. Just ... because I have better uses of my time, because life is too short and the stories in this world too numerous for me to be wasting years on a children's show that can't even stack up to Avatar: the Last Airbender or Batman: the Animated Series.

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I always thought the Battle Frontier was a filler like Orange. But it's actually a part of Hoenn?
In the video games, the Battle Frontier was introduced in Hoenn and is located in Hoenn (Emerald) with a sister chapter in Johto (HGSS). In the anime, the Battle Frontier was introduced during Gen 3 but is located in Kanto, of all places. Ash flies home from Hoenn to Kanto and then enters the Battle Frontier.

I would consider its anime arc to be a filler arc, personally. But I've also not seen it, nor much of the Gen 3 anime for that matter.
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Old 08-24-2016, 05:41 PM   #359
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I want to say XY is like the "5D's" of Pokemon. Anyone concur with that?
At first I didn't agree, but when I thought about it I realised I do.

Because: (5D's plot stuff below)

Spoiler: show
The start of 5Ds up to the end of the Dark Signers Arc is some of the best writing in the whole of the Yu-Gi-Oh franchise. It's dark and compelling, with strong characters and some really nice mythology. Even the motorcycle dueling thign isn't as dumb as I thought it would be.

It's a shame that it was derailed with the boring WRPG (?) tournament arc and the lacklustre Arc Cradle stuff that followed.

It all went downhill really when they decided Crow had to be a hero and join the 5Ds team because the Blackwing cards were popular. Originally he was devised to be a villain during the Dark Signer Arc but then they changed their minds and we got lumped with that flat boring character who just had to become a signer, despite it totally not making sense anyway.

Not to mention the diminishment of Aki's character once the Dark Signer Arc was over is shocking, as during the rest of the series she becomes generic girl side kick and loses all the spark and interesting quirks she had. And Jack losing all the character development from his brutal duel with Carly and goes back to be insensitive and power hungry, to learn the lesson again later.

And then after Dark Signers none of the characters except Yusei, Jack and Crow do anything of note. At all. Rua, Ruka and Aki get like zero screentime and maybe like 2 duels in the 80 episodes following the end of Dark Signers? Carly is basically relegated to cameo appearances. Rally and Yusei's important friends from home aren't seen until the final duel (despite him spending Dark Signers trying to resurrect them). It's strange how they got the beginning of the series so right and then lost the plot (literally) afterwards.

So I do agree because lots of the beginning of XY was well written and showed promise. Like Serena and her relationship with Ash and her not knowing her goal, just to later to be squandered. Ash being set up to surpass himself, almost beating a champion, having a super special Mega Pokémon, just to lose to Alain etc.
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Old 08-25-2016, 07:40 AM   #360
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What if
Spoiler: show
This loss was a build up where Ash has to fight against Alain again in the inevitable Ash group vs Flare, and this time he wins
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Old 08-25-2016, 08:05 AM   #361
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Originally Posted by Torkoal Stu View Post
At first I didn't agree, but when I thought about it I realised I do.

Because: (5D's plot stuff below)

Spoiler: show
The start of 5Ds up to the end of the Dark Signers Arc is some of the best writing in the whole of the Yu-Gi-Oh franchise. It's dark and compelling, with strong characters and some really nice mythology. Even the motorcycle dueling thign isn't as dumb as I thought it would be.

It's a shame that it was derailed with the boring WRPG (?) tournament arc and the lacklustre Arc Cradle stuff that followed.

It all went downhill really when they decided Crow had to be a hero and join the 5Ds team because the Blackwing cards were popular. Originally he was devised to be a villain during the Dark Signer Arc but then they changed their minds and we got lumped with that flat boring character who just had to become a signer, despite it totally not making sense anyway.

Not to mention the diminishment of Aki's character once the Dark Signer Arc was over is shocking, as during the rest of the series she becomes generic girl side kick and loses all the spark and interesting quirks she had. And Jack losing all the character development from his brutal duel with Carly and goes back to be insensitive and power hungry, to learn the lesson again later.

And then after Dark Signers none of the characters except Yusei, Jack and Crow do anything of note. At all. Rua, Ruka and Aki get like zero screentime and maybe like 2 duels in the 80 episodes following the end of Dark Signers? Carly is basically relegated to cameo appearances. Rally and Yusei's important friends from home aren't seen until the final duel (despite him spending Dark Signers trying to resurrect them). It's strange how they got the beginning of the series so right and then lost the plot (literally) afterwards.

So I do agree because lots of the beginning of XY was well written and showed promise. Like Serena and her relationship with Ash and her not knowing her goal, just to later to be squandered. Ash being set up to surpass himself, almost beating a champion, having a super special Mega Pokémon, just to lose to Alain etc.
In my original post (before I just offered "it's similar to 5D's") I was going through the comparisons and realized that BW is probably a better comp. Not only was BW contemporaneous with 5D's, introducing substantial changes to the series format (like 5D's), it suffered a plot change as a result of an external event.

Crow from villain to hero wasn't the only change. Carly's CV was discovered to be a cultist, and that caused the entire story to be derailed so as not to give off the impression that the anime was pro-cult. So all the cult stuff had to be removed and so we ended up with the ret-con'd season 2. Which, was still well above average for a YGO anime but not up to the same god tier as everything through Dark Signer.

But it's that Season 2 that really gets me. If 5D's through Dark Signer is BW, then WRGP+ has got to be XY.

Spoiler: show
Because of the plot twist at the end where Z-ONE, who was supposed to be future Yusei, turned out to be some random guy who had plastic surgery to look like Yusei, and also managed to command Yusei's cards?


It wasn't as bad as what happened in XY, but it was still a turkey tap.

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What if
Spoiler: show
This loss was a build up where Ash has to fight against Alain again in the inevitable Ash group vs Flare, and this time he wins
Doesn't count and never will, sadly.
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Old 08-25-2016, 05:37 PM   #362
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It's interesting that the anime basically said outright that to access the champion league, Ash has to return to Kanto. This seems pretty obvious when you think about it (and everything since losing to Ritchie way back when has been a alternate universe bad end) but logistically how the anime plays out Ash won't be heading back there for a while. So everything Ash does in the other leagues is really irrelevant.
I know, right? That's what fueled my "aw shucks" reaction to this, and is probably fueling a lot of the real rage going on in the wider community! Ash could have won this. As we know the writers had this formula arranged as far back as early Sinnoh, it's safe to say he could have won Sinnoh and Unova too. The very FACT that they introduced this implied that somebody in the writing room was kicking the idea around until...plop.

What I expect is that ratings will drop to a point (one day) that the writerrs will wrap up the region they are on, giving Ash a win or not. It's irrelevant-that's the point....and Ash will go back to Kanto, form his OOber dream team, and win the Kanto League, move on to the Champion League, etc.

WAY back in the opening ceremonies for Kanto (at least in the dub, which doesn't mean much if this isn't accurate to the original script), the announcer at the Pokemon League said that the winner would obtain the title of Pokemon Master.

Unless a "Pokemon Master" is therefore anyone qualified to challenge a Champion League, the dynamic has been rewritten over the last 15 years. After all, "Pokemon Master" sounds less impressive if a regional Champion is of a higher caliber.

Therefore, i'm going to assume that all of the regions (with Kanto/Johto sharing) have their own Champion Leagues. The winner is the regional Champion and therefore can do TWO things: challenge the other regional Leaders to a battles to see who is stronger (I'm not sure where the other regional Champions would come into this), or there is a top-tier "Champion-Champion League" if you will. Once again, I'm not sure where the other regional Elite Fours would come into this, as Bruno for example defeating Cynthia while she was climbing her way up the ladder to fight the Kanto/Johto Champion would throw a giant wrench in the mechanics of this hierarchy.

I expect that a Pokemon Master is therefore the strongest Champion in the world. If a trainer beats him/her in a random battle, i'm not sure the random Trainer would be able to claim the title though unless they fight through all of the rings. I believe therefore there can only be one Pokemon Master living at a time.

Shopro has it's work cut out for it.
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Old 08-25-2016, 05:40 PM   #363
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Talon, as we discussed on the phone, these are valid points. Part of the reason that I may, just may, marathon the show... Doppel is my new found inspiration.

Would you consider keeping the show and going back to it over various rainy afternoons throughout the year and watching in batches if your inclined and the video games pull your strings of interest?
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Old 08-25-2016, 09:24 PM   #364
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Talon, would you consider keeping the show and going back to it over various rainy afternoons throughout the year and watching in batches if you're inclined and the video games pull your strings of interest?
If I drop the show, I drop the show. There's no "dropping weekly viewings but picking up yearly marathons" about it.
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Old 08-26-2016, 07:49 AM   #365
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I know, right? That's what fueled my "aw shucks" reaction to this, and is probably fueling a lot of the real rage going on in the wider community! Ash could have won this. As we know the writers had this formula arranged as far back as early Sinnoh, it's safe to say he could have won Sinnoh and Unova too. The very FACT that they introduced this implied that somebody in the writing room was kicking the idea around until...plop.
I think what happened is, Ash was probably intended to win the Indigo League back in Kanto but the producers realized they couldn't let the cash cow die that early. So they quickly clone Ash into Ritchie and have him beat Ash in a compromising way that reveals his immaturity.

Really, of all the losses I think the one in Kanto was the most acceptable. Ash came in with a team he bonded with, but of his main team he didn't train them very well. He won most of his Indigo battles with Oakmons. It was a sobering reminder for him that climbing to the top is tough. Lots of Japanese shows end up with failure like that, even "you only get one shot" type events like baseball players aiming for Koshien.

Johto was less acceptable since it was the "second" Indigo League and Ash showed a little more maturity since Kanto, but he lost to a non-generic guy (who subsequently lost to a generic whoever). But Harrison was a departure from Ritchie as a more thought-out tournament killer. I don't think he was haphazardly invented and this was where the idea of Ash consistently losing in the Pokemon League came about.

There's lots of excuses since then, I think. While the Sinnoh lost was painful, losing to Tobias was not only blameless but it was a great way to go out. BW is whatever and I similarly don't know jack about Hoenn.

That just leaves XY as the worst thing I've seen in forever.

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What I expect is that ratings will drop to a point (one day) that the writerrs will wrap up the region they are on, giving Ash a win or not. It's irrelevant-that's the point....and Ash will go back to Kanto, form his OOber dream team, and win the Kanto League, move on to the Champion League, etc.

WAY back in the opening ceremonies for Kanto (at least in the dub, which doesn't mean much if this isn't accurate to the original script), the announcer at the Pokemon League said that the winner would obtain the title of Pokemon Master.

Unless a "Pokemon Master" is therefore anyone qualified to challenge a Champion League, the dynamic has been rewritten over the last 15 years. After all, "Pokemon Master" sounds less impressive if a regional Champion is of a higher caliber.

Therefore, i'm going to assume that all of the regions (with Kanto/Johto sharing) have their own Champion Leagues. The winner is the regional Champion and therefore can do TWO things: challenge the other regional Leaders to a battles to see who is stronger (I'm not sure where the other regional Champions would come into this), or there is a top-tier "Champion-Champion League" if you will. Once again, I'm not sure where the other regional Elite Fours would come into this, as Bruno for example defeating Cynthia while she was climbing her way up the ladder to fight the Kanto/Johto Champion would throw a giant wrench in the mechanics of this hierarchy.

I expect that a Pokemon Master is therefore the strongest Champion in the world. If a trainer beats him/her in a random battle, i'm not sure the random Trainer would be able to claim the title though unless they fight through all of the rings. I believe therefore there can only be one Pokemon Master living at a time.

Shopro has it's work cut out for it.
I wouldn't believe the dub, and would instead prefer the Japanese quote Talon provided at one point about the Pokemon Master as the Champion of Champions. Nintendo itself refuses to answer what Pokemon Master is but I think that's about as acme a goal as one could have in the Pokemon World.

If anything though, we need enough Champions to make a league possible. Right now the regions are:

Kanto/Johto
Hoenn
Sinnoh
Unova
Kalos
Aloha

Good for six champions, or three rounds. I would imagine there needs to be at least 16 before a league proper can form.
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Old 08-26-2016, 01:15 PM   #366
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I think what happened is, Ash was probably intended to win the Indigo League back in Kanto but the producers realized they couldn't let the cash cow die that early. So they quickly clone Ash into Ritchie and have him beat Ash in a compromising way that reveals his immaturity.

Really, of all the losses I think the one in Kanto was the most acceptable. Ash came in with a team he bonded with, but of his main team he didn't train them very well. He won most of his Indigo battles with Oakmons. It was a sobering reminder for him that climbing to the top is tough. Lots of Japanese shows end up with failure like that, even "you only get one shot" type events like baseball players aiming for Koshien.

Johto was less acceptable since it was the "second" Indigo League and Ash showed a little more maturity since Kanto, but he lost to a non-generic guy (who subsequently lost to a generic whoever). But Harrison was a departure from Ritchie as a more thought-out tournament killer. I don't think he was haphazardly invented and this was where the idea of Ash consistently losing in the Pokemon League came about.

There's lots of excuses since then, I think. While the Sinnoh lost was painful, losing to Tobias was not only blameless but it was a great way to go out. BW is whatever and I similarly don't know jack about Hoenn.

That just leaves XY as the worst thing I've seen in forever.



I wouldn't believe the dub, and would instead prefer the Japanese quote Talon provided at one point about the Pokemon Master as the Champion of Champions. Nintendo itself refuses to answer what Pokemon Master is but I think that's about as acme a goal as one could have in the Pokemon World.

If anything though, we need enough Champions to make a league possible. Right now the regions are:

Kanto/Johto
Hoenn
Sinnoh
Unova
Kalos
Aloha

Good for six champions, or three rounds. I would imagine there needs to be at least 16 before a league proper can form.
To summarize the Hoenn loss, Ash lost to a dude named Tyson who seemed like a more interesting Harrison character, plus his main Pokemon was interesting and had a cool back story. Otherwise....same? ^_^;; Instead of Ritchie or Gary, we were introduced to a late-minte 'bro' character who appeared a handful of episodes before the League, started a bromance with Ash, went on to be his second to last opponent in the League, and was never seen again. Morrison however was interesting, as he brought to the table what Richie should have (the idea of battling your friend being horribly awkward and the fall-out that could occur with that). Well worth watching at some point.

My problem with the Kanto loss was that it was partly due to Team Rocket and partly due to Charizard. If Ash was overpowered or had a poorer strategy (strategy being rarely seen in Ash before the Johto Gyms) and went on to lose, I would have been ok with what. Heck, even his rank of placing at Top 16 was fine by me. I agree though, he had a LONG way to go, and a handful of OPed Pokemon in their baby form driving him through to victory would have been silly.

As far as cash cowing goes, a lot of fans have wondered what the harm would be with rolling the dice, letting Ash win a League, and have an Ash side-story with home going home to Kanto to move to the next phase in his goal towards the Champion League (Pokemon Chronicles style) while a new protagonist went forward in Aloha.
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Old 08-26-2016, 04:46 PM   #367
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But how strong was Ash in Hoenn?

From how he's developed here in Kalos, team-wise, he was champion worthy. In Kanto and Johto he wasn't very serious despite campaigning around for badges. His Pokemon were still under-evolved by the Silver Conference and he didn't catch any real strong ones during his time in Johto, save Heracross really early.

As others have pointed out, it looks to me like Sinnoh was the first league where his skills matured enough to earn him a win. ShoPro aborted that in the least controversial way possible, I think.
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Old 08-26-2016, 10:27 PM   #368
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But how strong was Ash in Hoenn?

From how he's developed here in Kalos, team-wise, he was champion worthy. In Kanto and Johto he wasn't very serious despite campaigning around for badges. His Pokemon were still under-evolved by the Silver Conference and he didn't catch any real strong ones during his time in Johto, save Heracross really early.

As others have pointed out, it looks to me like Sinnoh was the first league where his skills matured enough to earn him a win. ShoPro aborted that in the least controversial way possible, I think.
I'd say stronger than Johto, not as strong as Sinnoh. This was the first time he nearly had a complete final form team...Corphish and of course Pikachu being the exceptions. He placed Top 8, which was souring as it was the first time he didn't bump up a rank. What got to me personally was the following Battle Frontier Arc.. Ash had a very exciting third battle with Brandon. The reset from there was terrible.

I'd agree that Ash wasn't quite mature enough to win until Sinnoh, but I also feel the writers could have beefed up his team just a little more in general during Hoenn. I guess they weren't comfortable jumping up another rank and gave Ash...nothing in advancement.

Btw....anyone watch the first part of the Team Flare arc? I've found it to already be my favorite regional team climax battle arc so far. It certainly has helped me move forward from last week and get over last week, I don't want to dwell on it forever. Luckily, this first part of the arc had been very well received.
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Old 08-28-2016, 07:10 PM   #369
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It's interesting that the anime basically said outright that to access the champion league, Ash has to return to Kanto. This seems pretty obvious when you think about it (and everything since losing to Ritchie way back when has been a alternate universe bad end) but logistically how the anime plays out Ash won't be heading back there for a while. So everything Ash does in the other leagues is really irrelevant.
That was a (really unfortunate) dub mistranslation, probably their worst. What the anime actually said was that he'd have to return to Kanto to access the Champion League... in Kanto. And that to access the Champion League in Sinnoh, he'd have to be in Sinnoh and win the Chmpion League there.

Or in other words, "to enter a region's Champion League, you need to win the Pokemon League in that region".

Makes a bit more sense that way, wouldn't you say?

Also,

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WAY back in the opening ceremonies for Kanto (at least in the dub, which doesn't mean much if this isn't accurate to the original script), the announcer at the Pokemon League said that the winner would obtain the title of Pokemon Master.
The original line is "Winning this tournament does not only mean you attain great honor as a Pokemon Trainer, it is also a trial that must be passed in order to become a Pokemon Master".
The dub sorta-translates this as "These hopeful competitors will battle one another as they strive always for excellence and victory; The victory they will need to enter the ranks of the Pokemon Masters." which... is clearly trying to say the same "winning a league is a necessary step on the way to that title" thing, but chooses some rather unclear wording that can easily be misinterpreted.

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I think what happened is, Ash was probably intended to win the Indigo League back in Kanto but the producers realized they couldn't let the cash cow die that early. So they quickly clone Ash into Ritchie and have him beat Ash in a compromising way that reveals his immaturity.
I know someone that worked on the show, I believe it was Takeshi Shudo, has mentioned the series was initially scheduled to run for a year and a half, but that this got changed to "indefinitely" due to its popularity. Considering the league takes place more or less exactly a year and a half in, and that the show then sends Satoshi to made-up-land to tread water for a while as they wait for the next games to come out so they can start adapting those... it's pretty clear the league was originally meant to be the end of the series. Doesn't mean he was meant to win, though.

Last edited by Adamant; 08-28-2016 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 08-28-2016, 07:46 PM   #370
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Even so, it's hard to deny the romanticism, the appeal of an international organization of Champions, at the head of which is the legendary Pokémon Master. They can invent a new name for him in either language, I don't mind -- the core concept remains, resplendent.

Good to see you posting here again, Adamant. Was kinda afraid my recent bummed out notes about whether or not to continue watching the show would turn you away. (If you haven't seen all those posts, the short summary is that I might drop in early Alola out of simple boredom. No hatred, and certainly nothing to do with the events of XY&Z 038.) Even if I'm not there to benefit from it, I hope that you and the rest of the PocketMonsters team continue to sub for many years to come -- or however long you find enjoyment in and reward from your endeavors. You guys rock!
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Old 08-29-2016, 05:46 PM   #371
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That was a (really unfortunate) dub mistranslation, probably their worst. What the anime actually said was that he'd have to return to Kanto to access the Champion League... in Kanto. And that to access the Champion League in Sinnoh, he'd have to be in Sinnoh and win the Chmpion League there.

Or in other words, "to enter a region's Champion League, you need to win the Pokemon League in that region".

Makes a bit more sense that way, wouldn't you say?

Also,



The original line is "Winning this tournament does not only mean you attain great honor as a Pokemon Trainer, it is also a trial that must be passed in order to become a Pokemon Master".
The dub sorta-translates this as "These hopeful competitors will battle one another as they strive always for excellence and victory; The victory they will need to enter the ranks of the Pokemon Masters." which... is clearly trying to say the same "winning a league is a necessary step on the way to that title" thing, but chooses some rather unclear wording that can easily be misinterpreted.



I know someone that worked on the show, I believe it was Takeshi Shudo, has mentioned the series was initially scheduled to run for a year and a half, but that this got changed to "indefinitely" due to its popularity. Considering the league takes place more or less exactly a year and a half in, and that the show then sends Satoshi to made-up-land to tread water for a while as they wait for the next games to come out so they can start adapting those... it's pretty clear the league was originally meant to be the end of the series. Doesn't mean he was meant to win, though.
That all makes a lot more sense. Kind of depressing though if they would have gone that route, giving him one shot to win and then cutting it off if he didn't.
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Old 09-08-2016, 06:22 PM   #372
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So pushing aside the entire league, thoughts on the Flare arc so far?
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Old 09-12-2016, 09:20 AM   #373
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So some information on The Sun/Moon anime has been released. Synopsis in spoiler box, do not worry, I am not going to include anything here regarding Sun and Moon, this is merely what the synopsis is for the anime, because I think we need to talk about it.

Spoiler: show
According to CoroCoro, in the series, Ash is going to school and his goal is to graduate "like never before".

Dear lord why. Fucking why.


Slightly more anime only spoilers in the next spoiler box, including a link to a pic of Ash's character design *which I believe also warrants it's own discussion based on artistic design* (Again, no actual Su/Mo spoilers or discussion, ANIME ONLY).

Spoiler: show
Looks like first of all Serena is gone. This is majorly disappointing, but once again the anime is predictable.

Here is Ash's new design. Notice the deliberate changes to his face that make him actually look *younger*, partly like they're almost trying to emulate Indigo League Ash to some degree. I don't like it at all. Would like some of your insight as well.


I am so over the PokeAnime.

Last edited by deoxys; 09-12-2016 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 09-12-2016, 10:02 AM   #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deoxys View Post
So some information on The Sun/Moon anime has been released. Synopsis in spoiler box, do not worry, I am not going to include anything here regarding Sun and Moon, this is merely what the synopsis is for the anime, because I think we need to talk about it.

Spoiler: show
According to CoroCoro, in the series, Ash is going to school and his goal is to graduate "like never before".

Dear lord why. Fucking why.


Slightly more anime only spoilers in the next spoiler box, including a link to a pic of Ash's character design *which I believe also warrants it's own discussion based on artistic design* (Again, no actual Su/Mo spoilers or discussion, ANIME ONLY).

Spoiler: show
Looks like first of all Serena is gone. This is majorly disappointing, but once again the anime is predictable.

Here is Ash's new design. Notice the deliberate changes to his face that make him actually look *younger*, partly like they're almost trying to emulate Indigo League Ash to some degree. I don't like it at all. Would like some of your insight as well.


I am so over the PokeAnime.
I am willing to give it several episodes*, but I am fairly confident I will be dropping this hard based on your report.

* I have previously said I would be willing to give it ten episodes, but seeing what we're seeing there I'm not even sure I can promise that. Two or three might be stretching it.

That stated ... Are you sure this isn't just a bad photoshop made by a rumor mongerer? The degree of not understanding your audience that this move would require is simply staggering. And the character design looks radically different from anything they've done before. It also looks very '90s low-budget anime, which could be a sign it's some rumor mongerer's drawing.

Spoiler: show
I understand that the adolescent, young adult, and adult Pokémon fandom is at odds with ShoPro, Game Freak, and Nintendo, all of whom intend Pokémon for a pre-adolescent demographic. But they have got to understand that, like it or not, the little kids don't care (this is not 1999 anymore, Pokémon is not the new kid on the block) and everyone above the age of 10 HATES how Ash both is frequently rewound and never grows up. When your fandom is shrieking, "No more power resets!", taking the 2nd place Kalos League tournament trainer and rewinding him to Poké-preschool, as the character design suggests, is grossly unwise.

Every cloud has a silver lining, though. Here's ours: if this is all true, then the ShoPro anime is probably finished. Within two to three years, if not sooner, I would expect to see an anime adaptation of the video games.
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Old 09-12-2016, 10:08 AM   #375
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It's CoroCoro, Talon.
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