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Old 08-03-2016, 11:31 PM   #276
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If you read Talon's spoiler in a certain other thread, it's pretty clear Ash cares about Eureka a lot.
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Old 08-03-2016, 11:32 PM   #277
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But she's a LITTLE GIRL!
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Old 08-03-2016, 11:37 PM   #278
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Actually having thought about it and actually skimmed a few XY episodes, I am now slightly* more convinced at a possible Ash victory. Especially if he doesn't just c/p his Kalos team of 6 but instead brings in the big guns (Charizard, Infernape, Sceptile et al)

Alain seems to have a "power is everything" complex developing, and that never ends well in anime (See: My avvy). Especially when the MC is involved.

*Slightly is the keyword!
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Old 08-03-2016, 11:52 PM   #279
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So many spoilers outside of the spoiler box ... TOO BAD IT DOESN'T MATTER! Joke's on you fuckers: AK2 already had me watch the episodes raw because he was worried something like this would happen. But seriously, you guys should be mindful about your fellow members.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GX Prodigy View Post
Gotta feeling that Ash is going to win the Kalos league, but the feeling isn't really justified. So far, we've only Alain's Charizard and Metang(which is most likely a metagross now), and in the league, he's only used his Charizard. In the final match, it'll obviously be Greninja v Charizard(even Ash isn't dumb enough to lose 3 or 4 pokemon to Charizard before bringing out Greninja later on). The problem will be with the rest of Alain's team. Since Alain is perceived to be a strong trainer, we have to assume that his team of 6 has got to be stacked(not on the same level as Charizard but close to). Let's just hope this isn't like the Sinnoh Semi-finals since both Tobias and Alain have defeated all opposition with only one pokemon.
Not bothering to spoiler tag any of this, because let's face it -- if you've already read this far, you've either been spoiled or you haven't been but don't care. So I'll just answer straight up.

Pretty sure you're wrong about several things. Alain already has a Metagross, and we've already received confirmation of it. Not only that, but he's used it in this very tournament.
  • I remember the announcer in either 33, 34, or 35 (most likely 34) noting that Alain had used Metagross.
  • Going to look for that sound byte, lo and behold I see that Metagross is right there on the screen showing Alain's roster and the Mega Garchomp guy's roster. Mega Garchomp guy has Gurdurr, Pelipper, Afrobull, Granbull, and Rhyperior. (Garchomp hasn't been revealed yet.) Alain has Charizard, four mysteries, and Metagross.
  • Found the sound byte: it wasn't the announcer, it was Citron who said it. Shortly before the 50-second mark in the episode, Citron comments on how Alain hasn't used anyone but Charizard and Metagross thus far in this 6v6.
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Old 08-04-2016, 12:24 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by Celebii151 View Post
Actually having thought about it and actually skimmed a few XY episodes, I am now slightly* more convinced at a possible Ash victory. Especially if he doesn't just c/p his Kalos team of 6 but instead brings in the big guns (Charizard, Infernape, Sceptile et al)
Alright, plopping this reply into the spoiler box for the 5% of you who both care not to be spoiled and who might also not have yet seen XY&Z 035 (last week's episode):

Spoiler: show
I've been watching non-stop since the final third of Sinnoh. This means I've seen every single episode of XY, XY&Z, and all the Kalos-related specials. (Haven't seen all the movies, though, because I have zero plans on watching the universally-panned Hoopa movie.)

I don't think Ash will win the entire thing. I think he'll get 2nd place at this point. (He's already gotten 2nd place at this point.)

I think Alain will become the tournament champion. This sets him up rather nicely to then take on the Elite Four, Diantha, to become the regional Champion, and then we'll get to see him being Kalos's new Champion in Sun & Moon if -- if! -- Sun & Moon are to have a post-game Kalos section. It only makes sense. We've already seen them change the Champion twice before (Steven --> Wallace and Alder --> Iris), and Diantha was nowhere near as popular as Cynthia so it's not like this would be a stupidly unpopular move.

I think Ash becoming the tournament champion is still a real possibility though. AK2 and I did the math, and while it'd be a bit of a breakneck speed they could technically squeeze in all of the following before November 18:
  • 2-3 episodes of Ash vs. Alain
  • 3-5 episodes of Team Flare
  • 1 episode dedicated to Ash vs. Wikstrom
  • 1 episode dedicated to Ash vs. Malva
  • 1 episode dedicated to Ash vs. Drasna
  • 1 episode dedicated to Ash vs. Siebold
  • 2-3 episodes of Ash vs. Diantha
  • 1-2 episodes of "holy shit I just became a regional champion again what now"
  • 1 episode of good-byes to his Kalosian friends
  • 1 episode of Delia and Mimey before we go Hawaiian
That's 12 episodes at the minimum end, or 12 weeks between last week (when the counter would have started) and our November 18 deadline. It's 19 episodes at the maximum end. How many weeks are there between July 29 and November 18? Roughly 16 weeks. That's cozily in the middle between our 12 minimum and our 19 maximum. So yes. It is possible to have Ash take on the Elite Four, Champion, and win it all, all within the time we have left to us. However ...

Another reason I don't think Ash will become the tournament champion (who then proceeds to try and become the regional Champion) is, ShoPro has recently demonstrated their insufferable tendency to waste time with bullshit filler episodes. See: Citron and the Rube Goldberg machine town. See: the vast majority of the Ash-revisiting-the-wetlands episode. See: wasting time on a punk with a Furfrou pre-tournament rather than allotting that time to a battle with actual stakes. Why should we trust ShoPro to do things differently now that we're short on time? We shouldn't. They're going to keep fucking it up, they're going to keep wasting time on bullshit fillers, and so the above math -- which only worked when we allowed for NO FILLERS -- all but proves that we're not going to see Ash take on the Elite Four ... which in turn tells me he's probably not going to win the league tournament either, because there's no point in having him win that only to then not have him bother with the Elite Four. I mean, c'mon.

Real quick corrective note for you, outside of the spoiler box: Ash isn't going to be using any of his Oak ranch-mon in this tournament challenge. He already mentioned in 32 or 33, while giving his Kalos team a motivational speech, how he owes everything up until now to this Kalos team and how he feels he can't make it farther with any other team than them. Something to that effect. It was basically an on-screen justification for why we shouldn't hold our breaths for a Charizard appearance. AK2 points out that, outside of Sinnoh, this is actually a consistent trend: Ash never uses any Pokémon in a regional tournament challenge other than the Pokémon he regularly had on him during his tour of that region. So like, Kanto is Kanto (check), Johto is a mixture of Kanto and Johto Pokémon (all of whom he had with him in Johto at one point or another), Hoenn is Hoenn exclusives, and Unova is Unova exclusives. Sinnoh's the only time he's brought back older Pokémon for reasons that go beyond "Shit, I ran out of space so I had to ask Prof. Oak to hold onto some of you" (Kanto, Johto). And it coincided with the late-gen release of HeartGold & SoulSilver.

In other words (and back into the spoiler box we go now) ...

Spoiler: show
We shouldn't expect Ash to be using anyone vs. Alain that he didn't already use vs. Shouta. Which is all the more reason to expect him to lose vs. Alain -- because beating Alain handily would be anticlimactic and beating Alain by a thread would essentially be a repeat of Ash vs. Shouta, which we just saw. The only possibility which is both new and climactic is the one where it's down to the wire but in the end Ash loses.

Realistically, I expect it to go something like this:
  • Through a series of exchanges, the score of remaining Pokémon will be 4-1 or 3-1, Alain's lead.
  • Ash's trump card will be Greninja. (Of course!)
  • Greninja will take down the first of Alain's remaining Pokémon. So say the score had been 4-1 Alain's lead. Now it's 3-1 Alain's lead.
  • Then he takes down the next one. Now the score's 2-1 Alain's lead.
  • Then he takes down the next one. Just how far can this frog go!?
  • By this point Greninja is pretty exhausted ...
  • So is Ash, who is synchro-linked with Greninja right now ...
  • And so in the final bout, Ash-Greninja vs. Mega Charizard X ...
  • Mega Charizard X won't win ... but rather ...
  • Ash will pass out due to physical exhaustion, which will in turn result in Greninja's defeat, which will in turn mean ...
  • "Greninja is unable to battle! Alain is the winner!"
This seems the most likely. You get to say that Ash-Greninja kicked a lot of ass, KO'ing 3˝ Pokémon before fainting himself. You get to say that the problem was with Ash's reliance on synchro evolution / still not having mastered it, not necessarily with Greninja or Ash's general competency. You get to not have Ash win the tournament, which is a life saver for a studio ill-prepared to have him take on the Elite Four, but in a manner that saves a lot of face. You even get to segue this into why we're going to Alola in the first place -- "Ash has heard something-something about synchro evolution in Alola, so he's going there to investigate!"
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Old 08-04-2016, 12:47 AM   #281
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Ash's win against Alan is very likely and generally agreed upon on all the other anime forums. Ash already lost against Alan 3 times, and Greninja already lost against Mega Charizard twice, so seeing Ash lose yet again would be pointless.

Whenever Ash loses consistently to a rival during the region (like Gary, Paul, etc.) he always beats them in the league. The writers also specifically set it up for Greninja to get a win against Mega Charizard because of that pokemon rivalry.

Combine that with the fact that the writers skipped over all of Ash's early matches in the league and are only showing us two full battles for him, its obvious he's going to get another win. (Edited due to Sun & Moon spoiler policy. -LB)

While there is still the small possibility of Ash losing, its far more likely for him to win now than ever before. Its pretty obvious some people haven't kept up with all of the XY season, because if they have, the narrative is leading toward Ash to win.

Last edited by lilboocorsola; 08-04-2016 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 08-04-2016, 12:52 AM   #282
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But Talon, Sinnoh did happen, and it just happened in the previous series, so it might not be an outlier. Others have pointed out that Ash tends to alternate between using his all-star team and his regional team, although the leagues in-between (like Orange, Battle Frontier) were filler leagues.

GRANTED, I agree with you that against Alain, he is probably not going to call on Sceptile, Charizard, Snorlax and Infernape to A-Team the finals. A rational person would. A guy who discovered how to synchro summon with himself and his Pokemon in Kalos wouldn't be worthy if he didn't do it with his Kalos team.

My setup: Ash defeats Alain but his Kalos team suffers severe injuries in the process, forcing him to make the call for chopper backup.
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Old 08-04-2016, 12:53 AM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by precita View Post
Combine that with the fact that the writers skipped over all of Ash's early matches in the league and are only showing us two full battles for him, its obvious he's going to get another win, and with the knowledge that Sun/Moon games are
Spoiler: show
doing away with the traditional Gym quest
, that's another indication.
Seriously uncool of you to give Sun & Moon spoilers outside of the Sun & Moon spoiler discussion thread. Half of the forum is actively trying their best to avoid spoilers, and the spoiler you just wrote is one I had successfully avoided up until now. I am very upset to have learned it from you. It would have been magically surprising to have discovered it blind going into the games.

Quote:
With the release of the new trailer, we are starting our spoiler quarantine for Sun and Moon. Please confine any Gen 7 discussions to the News threads. Failure to comply may result in bans so please be careful! This is a forum-wide policy so it also applies to TOs and hidden forums. Do not hesitate to PM me with any questions. Thanks!
Please edit your post immediately. Please do not discuss anything to do with the Sun & Moon games beyond the existence of the box cover legendaries and the starter trio outside of the spoiler discussion thread.

Last edited by Talon87; 08-04-2016 at 12:59 AM.
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Old 08-04-2016, 10:55 AM   #284
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People are now saying.... that Ash just may win.
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Old 08-04-2016, 11:29 AM   #285
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It could happen! Although I am not a fan of the balance of his team. Three fliers and two Dragons, only one NFE? Meh.
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Old 08-04-2016, 11:52 AM   #286
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Episode 36 has aired, and with that the sneak peek for Episode 37 is out. It reveals Alain's team in full.

Spoiler: show
Charizard, Metagross, Tyranitar, Weavile, Unfezant, and Bisharp.

It also reveals:

Spoiler: show
Ash's uses of Hawlucha, Talonflame, Noivern, and of course Pikachu. Absent from the sneak peek are Goodra and Greninja. Furthermore, Pikachu is shown battling Tyranitar, Metagross, and Charizard. He looks most beat up when fighting against Charizard

This would suggest any of several possibilities.

Spoiler: show
Possibiliy 1. Ash either defeats Alain 3-0 (Pikachu, Greninja, Goodra) or 2-0 (Greninja, Goodra) or else that Goodra and Greninja faint earlier in the match but Ash still wins 1-0, Pikachu being the last Pokémon standing.

Possibility 2. Ash saves Pikachu if not for last then at the very least for Alain's presumed last Pokémon of Charizard.

Possibility 3. This is a two-parter; and that while Ash will end up reducing Alain's team to just Charizard, it will cost him four of his Pokémon (Hawlucha, Noivern, Talonflame, Pikachu), leaving a sitting score of 2-1 Ash's lead; and that in the second part we'll have Goodra vs. Mega Charizard X followed by Ash-Greninja vs. Mega Charizard X. Who remains standing is anyone's guess.

Possibility 4. Piggybacking off of Possibility 3, here we discuss the possibility that Alain ends up winning 1-0 against Ash or else ends up losing 0-1 to Ash. Either way, the expectation here is a Mega Charizard X vs. Ash-Greninja finale.

Finally, we have to address an elephant in the room I forgot to bring up in my previous posts but which I've already discussed with AK2 several times:

Spoiler: show
the possibility that the battle will be cut short by Team Flare. All of the attention given to them in Episode 36, along with their current operation taking place right in the heart of Lumiose City ... it all points to Flare launching their plan either a) during the fight, when the city is distracted, or else b) immediately after the fight. A makes more tactical sense, and besides: it gives the writers a convenient excuse IRL to explain away how Ash was going to win but ends up losing to Alain because lol different mindset during the rematch / different Pokémon on hand during the rematch. We'll see.
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Old 08-04-2016, 12:38 PM   #287
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I'm so excited for this! He can't lose! Or else I'll cry!
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Old 08-04-2016, 12:48 PM   #288
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So I just realized something about Alain's team ...

Spoiler: show
They're all from the previous five generations. He doesn't have a single Kalos Pokémon, and he does have representation from each of the other five generations:
  • Gen 1: Charizard
  • Gen 2: Tyranitar
  • Gen 3: Metagross
  • Gen 4: Weavile
  • Gen 5: Unfezant, Bisharp
Ash, on the other hand, has a team which is entirely comprised of Gen 6 Pokémon (minus Pikachu, who is still Kalos native).

So the showdown between Alain and Ash is basically a showdown between "Anything But Kalos" vs. "All Kalos". I still don't expect Ash to win the championship, but I would agree that this is a pretty good sign for those who do expect it. It's hard to argue against the writers trying to make it symbolic, that Kalos's champion-to-be-crowned would be someone who uses the region's own Pokémon to the best of their ability rather than someone who turned to outsider Pokémon to help him.
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Old 08-04-2016, 01:00 PM   #289
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@Talon

The writers are seiously hyping this up.
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Old 08-04-2016, 01:11 PM   #290
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> Tyranitar

HYPE GET
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Old 08-04-2016, 02:18 PM   #291
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MEGA HYPE = me running around in circles screaming with joy
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Old 08-04-2016, 02:38 PM   #292
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I mean the writers will find some way to screw him over. They do every time. Charizard falling asleep, some guy with a Latios, Unova being full of shitty Pokémon... I imagine that Alain will activate the heart of the cards and blitzkrieg Ash's team while Ash finally has that huge brain haemorrhage we're all waiting for and dies.

Ideally paving the way for Misty to get her own series and just go around yelling at people.
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Old 08-04-2016, 02:50 PM   #293
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Quote:
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I mean the writers will find some way to screw him over. They do every time. Charizard falling asleep, some guy with a Latios, Unova being full of shitty Pokémon... I imagine that Alain will activate the heart of the cards and blitzkrieg Ash's team while Ash finally has that huge brain haemorrhage we're all waiting for and dies.

Ideally paving the way for Misty to get her own series and just go around yelling at people.
Well, one thing that is possibly telling from the sneak peek for 37 is ...

Spoiler: show
We never actually see Mega Charizard X. Alain's Charizard is always in his base form. That could just mean that Alain doesn't feel pressured to flip the switch until later in the fight. But it could also be a sign that Alain has finally figured out how to do Bond Evolution* the same as Ash.

* Episode 36 reveals the name of what Ash and Greninja do has been called kizuna genshou 絆現象, "Bond Phenomenon". I expect the English translation would be something like "Bond Evolution," although they do not expressly say shinka 進化 like they normally do for evolutions.
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Old 08-04-2016, 05:02 PM   #294
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Quote:
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I mean the writers will find some way to screw him over. They do every time. Charizard falling asleep, some guy with a Latios, Unova being full of shitty Pokémon... I imagine that Alain will activate the heart of the cards and blitzkrieg Ash's team while Ash finally has that huge brain haemorrhage we're all waiting for and dies.

Ideally paving the way for Misty to get her own series and just go around yelling at people.
Aren't the writers new?
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Old 08-04-2016, 05:05 PM   #295
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Do pirates prevent global warming?
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Old 08-04-2016, 05:47 PM   #296
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Do pirates prevent global warming?
The Straw Hat Pirates are hefty consumers of beef, which comes from cows notorious for polluting the skies with methane.

In a word, yes.
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Old 08-05-2016, 02:50 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
But Talon, Sinnoh did happen, and it just happened in the previous series, so it might not be an outlier. Others have pointed out that Ash tends to alternate between using his all-star team and his regional team, although the leagues in-between (like Orange, Battle Frontier) were filler leagues.
Hate to make one of my rare posts a quotation where I derail your point Dopple, as I agree with 98% of your sentiments in the American politics thread, but the two main points stand:

1. Battle Frontier and Orange Islands were "filler" (not to dismiss them, they were great arcs)

2. Heart Gold and Soul Silver. That's it, really. If they had not been released and therefore in need of promotion (hell, Pokemon Adventures made a whole story arc just for them), Ash would never have called on his old team.
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Old 08-05-2016, 02:51 AM   #298
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I will post a longer thread over the next few days, but:

I want Ash to win. I'm 80% sure it won't happen, but am holding out hope due to several reasons I won't go into right now.

As Talon pointed out, if the writers don't screw around, and are optimal, there is quite a bit of episode spacing left between now and November.
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Old 08-05-2016, 05:22 AM   #299
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I'm just sad at how woefully generic the rest of Alain's team is.

(Just in case it is a spoiler?)

Spoiler: show
Tyranitar? Metagross? Weavile? Like I know he needs Charizard, but did the rest of his team have to be so 'here are some of the most popular cool Pokémon that the fanom rave about'.

Last edited by Torkoal Stu; 08-05-2016 at 05:32 AM.
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Old 08-05-2016, 08:05 AM   #300
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I personally feel like denying Ash this win would be the last straw for a lot of fans. Outside of the filler arcs, he has never won a true league. He always comes so close, but ends up falling just short of his goals, which the writers regurgitate over and over as a moral and a lesson to be learned ('There's nothing wrong with second place! It's about the journey, not the destination! ').

That said if Ash does win Kalos, he'll probably never win another league; or, he'll win Kalos, but lose to the Elite 4, and defeating the Elite 4 + Champion could probably become his new overall goal.

So basically, if the writers don't throw fans a bone with this one, they risk alienating a lot of them who may feel it's pointless to continue to follow a protagonist who loses every major championship he has participated in.

Also I'm sure it's been discussed, but (upcoming episode title spoilers):

Spoiler: show
Upcoming episode is called 'Kalos League Victory! Ash's Ultimate Match!!', which... um... why would you name your episode that? This just seems like a blatant spoiler, unless they're intentionally throwing us off. But regardless this seems very telling.
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