09-28-2012, 11:02 AM | #1 |
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Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
Looks like we lost our original thread for the first game. Placeholder post. (If I never update this and someone else wants to, feel free to PM your post body suggestion to someone who can edit this post. No problem.) EDIT: This thread for the discussion of the first Phoenix Wright game only. We have separate threads on UPN for most of the other games in the series. Here are the links to them for your ease: Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney: Justice for All (Game 2) Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney: Trials and Tribulations (Game 3) Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney (Game 4) Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright (Game ??) Last edited by Talon87; 09-29-2012 at 10:38 PM. |
09-28-2012, 12:29 PM | #2 |
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DaisyInari has been playing through the Ace Attorney games diligently over the past few months and has made her way into the early middle of Game 3. And both Daisy and Loki have recently watched the live-action Phoenix Wright movie. These things spurred me on to do something I'd wanted to do for a while: replay the Phoenix Wright games. A, to freshen up my memory on them in a way far superior to just reading Wiki articles. B, to relive the enjoyable experience.
So here I am, a third or so of the way into Case 3 of the game, and it's just as good as I remembered. It's very interesting to come back to the series' roots and see what all is the same as what we see later on and what all is different. The two most noticeable differences have been the absence of Psyche Locks and the courtroom's five-strikes system instead of the green health bar. I haven't gotten a strike yet (thankfully! ) and I actually don't mind Psyche Locks as much as most of the fandom seems to so it's not like these changes affect me all that much. They're just very noticeable. What surprises me most isn't what isn't here but instead what already is here. Hidden courtroom clues or modifications to evidence which show up via pressing the witness is one thing. I always press the witness on every single text bubble (except in cases where you can get penalized for doing that ... and even then I tend to save my game first and still do it anyway just to see the text ) 'cause I'm obsessive like that. But it still surprises me that even as far back as the very first game they had important evidence clues hidden away in the seemingly optional Press system. I would've thought that that didn't happen until Game 2 at the soonest and that in the first game you could've, if you knew what to do, just skip right ahead to the text block which contains a contradiction and present the corresponding piece of evidence. But I guess not! Interesting. Another thing which is core to the Phoenix Wright franchise and which surprised me to see show up here in the first installment were several of the characters' various trademark habits or traits. For instance, Gumshoe's stereotypical precinct jargon laden with words like "pal" is one thing ... but for the game to already have broken the fourth wall in Case 3 by having Maya call him "pal" and then Gumshoe freak and say "Hey, you can't do that, pallie! Calling people 'pal' is my endearing character trait!" just really surprised me. It reminds me why this series was such a hit right from the very beginning, why a sequel was all but inevitable and why the franchise continues to go strong (imo) six games on. Fun, quirky, witty comedy writing left and right. It's just a very fun series that is always bringing a smile to your face, inwardly or outwardly, in so many different ways. Finally, a third thing which surprised me was just how high stakes the cases were even as early as Game 1 Case 2. Like, everyone remembers ... (spoilers for Game 2 Case 4) Spoiler: show And everyone remembers ... (spoilers for Game 1 Case 5) Spoiler: show But like, I completely forgot that in Case 2 of Game 1 such major things happened as ... (spoilers for Game 1 Case 2) Spoiler: show It was really quite amazing to me to see Phoenix come up against such a powerful foe so early on in the series. I suppose this is why I, and so many other fans, fell so in love with this series right from the start. "If the second case in the game is this good, imagine how good what they're saving for last must be! " Anyway, I'll be sure to update you as I continue to play back through PW1. Anyone who wants to discuss any of the cases, please feel free to. Just be sure to be respectful of others and please place things which constitute spoilers in appropriately-labeled spoiler tags. I would like this thread to be useful for any future members who might never have played the series before and want to check in here and read what others had to say about the cases they themselves have only just beaten. (Like, say he beats Case 3 and wants to read our thoughts on Case 3. I don't want him spoiled on Cases 4 or 5.)
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09-28-2012, 02:02 PM | #3 |
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This might sound horrible, but I'll tell you anyway.
I cannot think of the game anymore without Pitbull's "Hotel Room Service" ringing in my head. Why? Game 1, Case 1. If you have played it or seen the characters, you'll know exactly why my brain drew such a strong link between those two things. x.x
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09-28-2012, 02:15 PM | #4 | |
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I've never heard of that before and can't load the video right now ... but are you sure you meant Case 1 and not Case 2? Case 2's the one with the hotel.
Figured I'd share some quotes here as I play back through. Won't be more than a small handful though. I'd have to put the game down every three screens if I tried to list them exhaustively! Quote:
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09-28-2012, 02:16 PM | #5 |
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I saw the movie about two weeks ago as well, I really loved it. I had a few problems with it in terms of story progression, but otherwise I think it may have been one of the best video game movies ever made.
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09-28-2012, 02:33 PM | #6 | |
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I've only seen the trailer of the movie, but it looks AWESOME. Tried finding the Takarazuka Musical as well, but there are only some clips on Youtube, haven't found the full performance. Yes. Edgeworth now sings and dances. He is that
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09-28-2012, 07:34 PM | #7 | |
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Completed Case 3 with only one hiccup.
Spoiler: show Overall it was a good case. Now on to Case 4! Quote:
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09-29-2012, 03:33 PM | #8 |
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I just completed Case 4. Wow, what a case! Not the greatest in the series history -- a credit to Takumi Shuu and the other creative minds on the team at Capcom who worked to bring us even more exciting cases in each successive sequel -- but it definitely serves as one of the most memorable and important in the franchise. This is the case where we learn about Edgeworth's past, Phoenix's reasons for becoming a lawyer, ~all of the unknown details about the DL-6 case, why Edgeworth became a prosecutor, and then some. There were some things I'm pretty sure I had forgotten about over the years but remembered the moment I saw the characters pop up. And there were other things that I 100% forgot all about. More in the spoiler box below.
Spoiler: show But of course there are some details you just cannot forget. Like ... Spoiler: show So I was pleased to discover that even though I remembered these details it was still great fun playing back through. Admittedly, it's been roughly 5˝ years since I first (and last!) played this game circa Christmas 2006, so I definitely have time on my side with making this replay super enjoyable as opposed to a chore. I can't promise it'd have been as fun to play back through had I tried to do it, say, only one or two months after completing it. In fact, I'm pretty sure it would not have been. Does that mean I'll put Phoenix Wright back into storage for another five years before picking it up again? Hard to say. Five years may have been a little too long. But two or so years? That I could see. I could press on to the bonus case (Case 5) at this point ... but instead I think I'll go ahead and check out the live-action movie first. Might me enjoyment of that be diminished for the very same reasons I suggested it'd be a bad idea to replay PW1 so soon after beating it the last time? Sure. But it was a risk I was willing to take since I was adamant about rediscovering the magic of the game via the game itself rather than a cheesy 2-to-3-hour cinema adaptation. Daisy and Loki really seemed to enjoy it though so I am cautiously optimistic about it. Not sure how they plan to cover all of Case 4 in just two hours but I guess it could be done. We'll see!
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09-29-2012, 07:11 PM | #9 |
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As I'm typing this post I'm watching the new Ace Attorney movie - and here's what I have to say: if you love the games, like yours truly does, you have to see this. No going around it. Go find it, watch it, love it.
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09-29-2012, 07:16 PM | #10 | |
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09-29-2012, 07:36 PM | #11 |
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Although I have to admit, while I was playing the game, I probably had the exact same expression on my face at the toughest witness testimonies.
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09-29-2012, 08:09 PM | #12 |
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With half an hour to go, here are my initial / main thoughts on the live-action Phoenix Wright movie. I'll provide concluding thoughts in a second post.
If you have not played the games before, do not I repeat do NOT use this movie as a substitute for them! If I had to say one thing about this movie it would be that. While the director, actors, and writers may have each tried their best to make a Phoenix Wright film based on the game, what they've produced is a botched nightmare of confusing plot details, omissions, and just an all-around mega-inferior product to the actual games. This movie is actually worse to Phoenix Wright than the Unlimited Blade Works movie was to the Unlimited Blade Works of the FSN visual novel. And while I've never seen M. Night Shyamalan's The Last Airbender myself, I have to say that I don't think this movie is too far off that film's mark as far as the whole condensing things approach goes. I also don't think this movie is overall as bad as that film. I'm merely stating that this movie cuts out a lot of material from the court cases it attempts to cover. But even if we ignore all of the things which the film omits -- after all, you say, it's not fair to criticize a 2-hour film for omitting so much from a 12-hour video game! -- there's still a lot stuff that this film keeps but changes. That's the #2 thing I'd say about this film. It keeps things from the game yet changes them into something new. Here follows an obviously spoilerific list of just some of the things the movie changes: Spoiler: show As you can see from this partial list, a) there are a SHIT TON of changes to the game even for those elements they did keep in the film and b) the game typically does them better or else the changes have no real impact one way or another. Only the ones I labeled in green represent changes where I feel the movie actually did a better job than the game. Anything unlabeled is "Why the heck did you change this? " and anything labeled red is "Why the heck did you change this when what you've changed it to is clearly worse than what the game had?" Now, having said all of these negative things, what are the film's positives? Surprisingly, the acting for starters. While there is a bunch of hammy acting from many of the supporting characters, I actually really quite like Phoenix's actor's acting in this film. I've gone on record before numerous times saying I don't care for this actor's work usually. And indeed I don't. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen him in Japanese television or cinema and felt he did a great job. But I'm pleased to add this film to the list. He does a very good job, even if he's not quite how I picture Phoenix to be ^^; , and I say three cheers to him. The guy who plays Manfred von Karma earns similar praise: not how I personally picture von Karma but also not bad. He strikes me much more as a stereotypical Japanese yakuza boss or bank CEO than a prosecutor who feels like a devil in the skin of a man but putting that to the side the actor does a fine job. Larry's actor is a tad silly and over the top but surprisingly he comes quite close to how silly and over the top the Butz really is in the games. I was a little less satisfied with Edgeworth, the judge, and Maya's actors but they all did fine jobs too, the sort of jobs which going into this film I was expecting were as good as I could hope for things to get. Instead I got Phoenix, von Karma, and even Larry pleasantly surprising me. So good job, guys. Are there any other positives for the film? Well, it looks pretty, how about that? ^^; There was a lot of on-site filming for the Gourd Lake scenes and they even went the extra mile and had a life-size replica of the Steel Samurai balloon of Larry's made for the film. Very nice. There's a lot of questionable lighting changes the film makes -- whereas the games feel very real and friendly with locations, the film often times foregoes reality for the feeling one gets out of a haunted house and thus foregoes friendly feelings for more ominous ones. The detention center looks like a prison in the film and the offices of Fey and Wright look like a dark and stormy night death trap rather than an office that one could really find in real life. Still, even if I think these changes questionable, I admit they are at least visually stunning. So that's a plus, no? I've still got half an hour to go but from where I am so far I'd give the Phoenix Wright film a grade of C+. It's not a failure but it's too bogged down by the A+ game's shoes it's so desperately trying to fill; and as a result of trying to strike out on its own and say "Hey! We're creative! We can do things too!" it makes a whole bunch of unnecessary changes, many of them bad, that keep me from giving it a B ranking. Might these feelings change in the final half an hour? We'll have to see! Oh yeah, one last thing: in the film, Maya randomly knows how to play piano and decides to play it on Day 3. What the hell. Point: Game! Just because this was a silly-stupid thing to randomly introduce, even if piano playing is awesome! *sigh*
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09-29-2012, 08:40 PM | #13 |
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You never fail to show up with a Wall Of Text if there is even a hint of me liking something, do you? >.>
Care to also make a post about the Takarazuka Ace Attorney Musicals? The plots aren't the same as the ones in the games, but my lord, the characters singing and dancing? They never did that in the games! What a grave sin! Seriously though. Is artistic license always such a horrible thing? This movie is still, so far, the best movie adaption of a video game I've seen that hasn't gone its separate way from the original material. Silent Hill did a good job, but it's a far cry from the original games - plotwise.
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09-29-2012, 08:57 PM | #14 | ||
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Quote:
Now, on to your next point: Quote:
Spoilers for the very start of Game 1 Case 4 Spoiler: show
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Last edited by Talon87; 09-29-2012 at 09:02 PM. Reason: spoiler tagging most of the post body for people who are playing the game for the first time |
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09-29-2012, 10:30 PM | #15 |
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Okay, just finished the movie and ... the best part was definitely those final thirty minutes. von Karma actually ended up kinda disappointing me with his final bit in the movie ^^; but Phoenix was trčs incroyable, both the actor (*whistles*) and the character. What really sold me on the final bit though I think was the pacing: whereas for most of the movie they cut out so much and were going at breakneck speed, here was the one part of the game where they only cut out 10-15% of stuff and they were going at only slightly faster than an ideal speed. Both of these changes were welcome and resulted in me really quite enjoying the final stretch of the film much more than I did the first bit. It was ... shall we say "interesting" to see how the movie tied things up versus how the game did it. Like so much of the rest of the movie, much the same and yet oh so different. More discussion inside the spoiler box. Spoiler: show Would I watch the movie again? Maybe some day. But yes. I would not not watch it again. It ended up being a bit better than I signed off feeling last post. I think in the end I'd give it a generous B or a critical B-. Still not an A production by any stretch of the imagination, but as kaisap's rightly drawn my attention to, there's just no comparing this to Jean Claude van Damme's and Raul Julia's Would I watch a sequel? Honestly, much as it pains me to admit it, Phoenix's actor's won me over and I think the answer's a mildly enthusiastic yes if only because I want to see him take up the mantle again. You dun good, Hiroki-kun. You dun good. That stated, I'd be concerned that a sequel would cast child actors who act just as Finally, do I take back what I said before about the film being unacceptable as a substitute for the games? No way, Jose. If you're thinking about watching the film, please, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease play the game first if you haven't already.
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10-01-2012, 02:20 PM | #16 |
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I still agree with that. But having played through the games already, I enjoyed watching "someone else" do the brainwork for a bit.
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10-02-2012, 01:14 PM | #17 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
I had largely forgotten the details of this case. All I really remembered were things like: (Spoilers for the end of Case 5 so DON'T CLICK if you don't want to be spoiled!) Spoiler: show And that was pretty much it. I had forgotten things like: (Spoilers for the end of Case 5 so DON'T CLICK if you don't want to be spoiled!) Spoiler: show And much more. So like, the case cannot be said to have bored me because I knew it all already: because after five and a half years away from the case, I'd forgotten so much that in many ways it was almost like playing the case for the very first time again. And yet despite this, there was something which struck me the other day after I was sick and tired of Angel Starr clogging up the witness stand. And when I was struck by this something, I then suddenly remembered that I had felt this exact same way almost six years ago. What is that something? An unpleasant feeling, impossible to satisfactorily rationalize or put into words, that while this case should be one of the all-time greatest it's actually nowhere near that for me. In Game 1 alone I would probably rank the cases something like 4 > 3 > 5 > 2 > 1. The rankings may not be 100% accurate but the point is that I would rank both Cases 3 and 4 ahead of Case 5 in terms of overall entertainment value. One of Case 5's problems is that it frustrates me too much, in ways none of the other Game 1 cases did. Some of these frustrations are quite familiar and brought a smile to my face: 'cause they're inherited from Games 2 and 3, the result of later game design decisions which were absent from Game 1. One example I can cite is time, or how long things go on for. In the first four cases in Game 1, you rarely have to play a guessing game with where to go next. And you even more rarely have to move around all that much during investigation phases. But in Case 5, there is a crapton of guessing where to go next, talking to craptons of people, presenting boatloads of evidence, and backtracking. After a while it can get kinda wearisome, fun as the game otherwise is. ^^; Courtroom segments aren't much better in this regard. While the first four cases' courtroom segments never stretch on for too long, the two segments I've been in for Case 5 each felt like they dragged on FOR-E-VER. By the time Angel Starr was asked to leave the witness stand I'm pretty sure the entirety of Case 4 Courtroom Day 3 played out. ^^; It was that long ... for the first flippin' witness! ^^; I know it *should* be fun -- like I said, I can't rationalize why I dislike this ^^; -- but for some reason being given so much at once and having to mash through it makes the case feel a little more grindy than it should. The story is another perplexing matter for me. You'd think a story like this one would be amazing. Like, it should be! ^^; You consider who the accused his, who the victim is and why he died, who the ultimate killer is, what the relation of this case is to all the people you run into, and it has all the makings of one heck of an epic case! And yet for some reason, don't ask me to justify it please, I'd rank Case 5's plot below Game 1 Case 4's, Game 2 Case 2's, Game 2 Case 4's, Game 3 Case 1's, Game 3 Case 5's, and the latter half of Game 4 Case 4's. That stated, Ema Skye is wonderful fun and it's very interesting to see her back when she was quite the clone of Maya. (Oh Apollo Justice Ema, how you've changed! *munch munch munch munch munch munch munch munch munch munch*) Lana Skye is ridiculously gorgeous, one of the prettiest Phoenix Wright characters in the history of the franchise. (Yes, Iris and Rookie Mia, you've got competition.) And best of all DS functional stuff like Luminol and fingerprinting! It's definitely going to suck if/when I move on to replaying PW2 to lose these awesome features for two solid games before seeing them show up again in Apollo Justice. But at least I got to enjoy them here for one case.
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10-03-2012, 05:50 PM | #18 |
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Completed the game today. Boy oh boy! I had forgotten the most exciting aspect of Case 5's plot and was mega-shocked by it as it came out. Of course, subconscious memories began to seep forth as it unfolded and I had no trouble figuring out what evidence to produce in order to pursue this line of inquiry.
(MAJOR spoiler for the first half of the final bit of Game 1 Case 5! Click at your own risk!) Spoiler: show Forgetting such a major plot twist allowed me to enjoy the final act to this case a lot more than I should have been entitled to as someone who had previously beaten this game. Unfortunately, my memory of the ultimate truth behind the case was unshaken even five and half years later and that made it kinda anti-climactic and very easy for me to prove the ultimate villain's guilt. ... That stated, I actually got my very first ever Game Over (err, "Guilty") towards the end of this case. What happened was ... (MAJOR spoiler for the first half of the final bit of Game 1 Case 5! Click at your own risk!) Spoiler: show That honestly is one of my problems with some of the crux moments in later cases in the franchise and is one thing I can praise Game 1 for mostly avoiding: and that is presenting situations where if the player is too smart for his own good he'll be told by the game that he's wrong and that he's instead expected to be a bit dumber, make the wrong choice, and THEN the game tells him "okay now you can make the right choice ". None of the first four cases in the franchise do this thankfully, and while I don't remember when the bad habit first started I do remember that it has since shown up in quite a number of cases. It was unfortunate to see it happen so late in the game (my winning streak ) but meh. There was another thing I'm surprised I totally forgot about regarding the post-verdict part of the game and it makes me sad actually. ^^; (MAJOR spoiler for the first half of the final bit of Game 1 Case 5! Click at your own risk!) Spoiler: show And with that, I've wrapped up Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney. Overall, the game definitely holds up and remains one of the very best DS games I've ever played. It's not really a "game" in the traditional sense though: it's pretty much an interactive visual novel, a veritable crossover between Law & Order and anime. Take Law & Order, anime-ify it, and then make it an interactive VN instead of a television show. That's pretty much Phoenix Wright in a nutshell. So while I realize many would challenge whether you can even fairly call it a game, and while I realize that for many more it's probably not their cup of tea, to me it's one of the greatest hits in the DS's rather large library of games. While a few staple characters and game mechanics introduced in the sequels are missing, a surprising amount of the franchise's core elements are present right from the get-go. Great criminal drama, a sense of humor which playfully dances between witty and silly, excellent 2D artwork, a heavy emphasis on pressing all things witnesses say, and much more. I was worried the game might not've held up after six years and 4+ sequels but it's done more than hold up: it's been just as wonderful as I remembered. Would highly recommend it and look forward to playing it again myself in a couple of years.
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10-04-2012, 09:44 AM | #20 |
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Phoenix Wright is pretty annoying to play through, but the humour and such is great. I was also overwhelmed with emotion after the last case in the game (the "real" last case, not the extra one added for the DS version).
Here's a funny story: After playing the first Phoenix Wright game, I wanted to play Justice for All but could not find it ANYWHERE. I told my roommate that if he ever saw it on one of his excursions to buy it for me. Many months passed, with neither of us having any luck. One day he came home and said, "I couldn't find it, but I did find this in the used games section" and presented me with the third game, Phoenix Wright: Trials and Tribulations. I thanked him, but was ultimately disappointed since I couldn't even play it until I had played the second game. HOWEVER!!!! Upon opening the box, I made a shocking discovery. The used game store had actually made a mistake: they put THE WRONG GAME INTO THE TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS BOX. And what was that game? Phoenix Wright: Justice For All. At that moment I quoted the vaguely British sounding Ash from the first episode of Pokemon and exclaimed, "It's ah lucky daiy!!"
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10-04-2012, 09:47 AM | #21 | |
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10-04-2012, 09:51 AM | #22 |
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That's pretty funny, Mcsweeney. Though I have to admit it'd drive me nuts to have the wrong box for the game. >_< Also, yeah: did you ever end up getting Trials and Tribulations?
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10-04-2012, 10:11 AM | #23 |
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I haven't looked that hard yet, but I figure it'll be easier to find, being newer.
Of course I can always find it online but I'm too lazy. I'd rather get it from a store. I've only ordered one game online in my whole life, and that was Ogre Battle: Person of Lordly Caliber for N64. Atlus games are notoriously hard to find, and that was one of the worst offenders. I finally ordered it because I was so desperate for my JRPG fix during The Great N64 RPG Drought. It was pretty exciting seeing people use swear words in a Nintendo game!
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