09-16-2012, 04:41 PM | #14251 |
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I think a similar approach could be used on Free for All Zone instead of here, with updaters rating/giving pointers after each update. That way we wouldn't be blurring the lines between adventures and TO, but this is just me. The idea as a whole sounds perfectly reasonable. ;)
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09-16-2012, 04:48 PM | #14252 | |
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09-16-2012, 04:49 PM | #14253 |
時の彼方へ
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In my experience, the people most in need of the help that real live writing workshops offer are the people least inclined to go. Your spare time is precious in general and most students don't fancy the idea of going to what amounts to the Remedial English Club for several hours a week to get help with their syntax and with the organization of their ideas. This is perhaps the greatest problem I'd foresee then with trying to bring a writing workshop back: if you don't force it on the members who need it, well, they're not going to use it; and if you do force it on them, well, they're going to be insulted and quit. The moment FB quits being a fun game and becomes work, people are going to (rightly! ^^; ) question why they're spending time on work here rather than on work they have in the real world.
However, that doesn't mean you guys can't or shouldn't give it a try. There are some members here who would certainly benefit from writing lessons were they to take them.
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09-16-2012, 05:16 PM | #14254 |
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09-16-2012, 05:23 PM | #14255 |
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Your feeling of discouragement, to write right now.
Edit: My biggest problem I have, that I noticed anyway, is yelling out attack orders, Typically when you write you bring life to the character by bringing past experience's, what you think, or say in real life, The character is a part of you, you can't write about being a sniper if you have never held even a gun before, so yelling attack orders sound's so unnatural. Last edited by Takeo; 09-16-2012 at 05:32 PM. |
09-16-2012, 05:24 PM | #14256 |
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My own fault. I was under the impression that I'd been sticking to the guidelines, then I just kinda get slapped down and told otherwise, it's... eh. My own fault, I know.
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09-16-2012, 05:26 PM | #14257 |
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Whilst I think as updaters we really ought to point out when members replies aren’t up to scratch, I don’t think we should be as harsh as some of you are proposing. The 4 line rule should be a given, considering it’s incredibly easy to write out a paragraph on just about any update. Same goes for replying in the correct size and colour (I recently had a go at one of the newer guys for posting in WI with no formatting. I’m not a ZO there but it still gets to me ;;) As for spelling/grammar, I think as long as it’s not too jarring that’s the kind of thing that gets better with practice.
When I started out in FB my writing was terrible. English had never really been my strongpoint, and I was confusing where and were, there and their etc all the time. However when you have a brilliant writer like Tess or Arc updating you like I did, you find yourself putting more effort into replies and your writing gradually improves. I think I got a C in English language at GCSE level, but now at university level I’m gunning for a 1st class degree with creative essay writing being my strongest suit. I completely believe I have Fizzy Bubbles to thank for this - when you're churning out 2,000 word updates a 1,500 word report is a breeze :P I don’t think we should be shunning bad writers, but if it’s obvious they’re putting little to no effort into their replies I think it should be our job to help them improve. For some of the new members (Kaisap, Itza and Gemini to name a few from my group), creative writing seems to come naturally. I think it's fine if it takes others a little longer. As for updaters writing short updates, I think that’s fine. The 3-4 line length updates will probably be considered half-updates when it comes to rewards. Anything less than that probably won’t count toward rewards so those updaters will be encouraged to flesh out their posts. Updaters are the lifeblood of FB so I don’t think anything that stunts the amount of updates being churned out should be encouraged. This is just my two cents on the topic at hand. Last edited by Emp; 09-16-2012 at 05:30 PM. |
09-16-2012, 05:35 PM | #14258 |
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^ See, I read very closely the differentiation between half and full updates. I have been posting what are- at least on my screen resolution- posts of longer than four lines, with more than five sentences. I never applied to be a ZA because of the rewards, anyway, I didn't even know they were a thing until I was told after I'd sent my application.
It just irks me that I've been coasting along under the impression that I'm acceptable when I've been apparently trashing the rules, it's... bah! I'm just blabbering on and on about the same thing. I need to drop it and move on, I know, I do. Spoiler: show |
09-16-2012, 05:45 PM | #14259 | |
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(The above, in Preview Post, is less than one and a half lines on my screen, by the way.) One source says five sentences or more is a full-sized update - the other says four lines is the minimum. It shouldn't come as a surprise that there is some confusion.
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09-16-2012, 05:48 PM | #14261 |
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Well, I may or may not have my first capture. Most likely not, as it will most certainly backfire horribly upon me, turning the geodude in question into a level 817352678 Golem because of a Pokeball "malfunction." The joys of horrible luck.
And as for the topic of length, I have decided that my posts will be a bare minimum of one paragraph. |
09-16-2012, 05:50 PM | #14262 | |
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Look, doesn't matter either way. I'm gonna re-assess myself and my writing and go from there. Really, really gonna shut up about this now. Sorry again. -shot- |
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09-16-2012, 05:51 PM | #14263 | |
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EDIT: And I've been reading the whole thing wrong. It's 8 lines rather than sentences, but hey you get the point of what I really mean, right? Last edited by Balmund; 09-16-2012 at 06:03 PM. |
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09-16-2012, 05:52 PM | #14264 | |
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Bogartey's Lileep used Absorb! It's super effective but only deals 1% HP damage. Tyoyo's Golem used Tackle! It does normal effectiveness damage but owing to his level IT'S A ONE-HIT KNOCKOUT! Bogartey's Lileep is unable to battle! Tyoyo wins! All the trainer battles would be yours. All the trainer battles.
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09-16-2012, 05:57 PM | #14265 | |
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As I've mentioned, I'm no Tolkien. Hence why I like rapid fire zones: short, sweet and to the point on top of faster plot progression.
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09-16-2012, 05:59 PM | #14266 |
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I'm out. I'm done for a few days. Later.
E: I'll update when I get back. Hopefully I'll even manage the bare minimum this time. Wooh. Last edited by tau; 09-16-2012 at 06:18 PM. |
09-16-2012, 05:59 PM | #14267 |
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FB Wishlist eh? Here's mine:
Spoiler: show Heh, I know it's a rather odd list. ^_^ Also, I hope I'm not much of a bother to the updators. I admit, my wordings can get very awkward at times, but I am trying my best! Last edited by uhhhhh; 09-16-2012 at 06:04 PM. |
09-16-2012, 06:09 PM | #14268 |
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While I see Talon's point about there potentially being some circumstances where less than 8 lines might be necessary to build tension, I have yet to run into a circumstance in which writing less than 8 lines would be anything other than cheating my updatee out of storyline/depth.
It's certainly not an easy problem to fix: on the one hand, no one likes being told that they're terrible at something, and being too critical could certainly lead to people quitting FB for various reasons... Hell, takku left just recently because he felt that he wasn't up to the "RP standard" around here, and the way he phrased it suggested a feeling of exclusion for not being "up to par". This is a very bad thing if we want to be a community that fosters RP growth and encourages people to do their best and improve, not simply "adhere to a standard." That said, if FB becomes too lax or does not enforce length requirements, particularly for ZAs, there's the chance that some will revert to the pre-requirement RPing that used to go on here... I still cringe at the memories of, "I ENTER THE MANSION TO SEE WHAT IS INSIDE. I CHOOSE THE RED DOOR AND GO INSIDE." Yep, that's it. That's all. That was the extent of what I'd receive. Just oodles of fun to work with as an updater, no? As I said, finding a solution that encourages people to write better without making them feel like utter shit can be difficult. In fact, the only way I could see it working would be to make it mandatory for everyone to participate in writing exercises, and that would be a major pain, I think.
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09-16-2012, 06:12 PM | #14269 |
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*appears*
To those new ZAs who have questions and whatnot: If you weren't good, you wouldn't have been accepted as ZAs. *disappears* EDIT: also, to my Talas group: college starts again tomorrow, so I should be updating more often as of tomorrow xP Last edited by darkrai; 09-16-2012 at 06:15 PM. |
09-16-2012, 06:18 PM | #14270 |
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Like talon said earlier that would be more of work.
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09-16-2012, 06:23 PM | #14272 | |
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The room starts to fill with water, steady torrents gushing out of the pipes in the walls. You begin to panic and fumble around for a key on the keyring to try out. Deciding the leftmost key would be the best place to start, you take it between your nervous fingers. It almost slides right out, your sweaty palms coating the smooth metal, but you clench down so hard your nails dig into your palms. It's not going anywhere. You twist your wrist, shove the key into the keyhole aaaaand ... it doesn't fit. A cold pulse of adrenaline courses through your body. The gentle roaring of the water is becoming distracting as it seems to be the last thing you'll ever hear.I mean, that works too? ^^; But I don't really care for it as much. It's too ... I dunno, it's too prosaic for such a scenario. ^^; Being an artist is about evoking emotion and expressing ideas imo. In this case, the primary emphasis is on the former for me. I want to evoke tension in the updatee. I want him/her to feel like they could drown. (Though that's kinda hard in FB, much harder than in, say, D&D, given how forgiving FB is about trainer and creature deaths.) I want him/her to feel like there's no time to waste. They don't have time to say "I examine the walls! " or "I dive under the water to look for an escape hatch! " No. This is do or die, find the right key and get out or don't find it and drown. Go go go go go go go go go go go GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! That's the sort of tension I want to build in such a scenario. And while I myself feel like what's provided above isn't necessarily bad?, it's not ideal to evoking that emotion. Part of that could be my own failings as an inexperienced fiction writer but part of it, I think, is that the almost poetic feel of the eight-sentence variant, with all its adjectives and adverbs and visual descriptions, is calming. The author's not in any rush to get out of here so neither do we have to be. Everything's going to be okay. If my character has enough time to study this room up and down and paint it from memory afterwards then certainly he's got enough time to find the right key of five and escape.
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09-16-2012, 06:35 PM | #14273 | |
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A cold pulse of adrenaline courses through your body. The gentle roaring of the water is becoming distracting as it seems to be the last thing you'll ever hear. This last bit in particular had me imagining what my character would do in such a situation and in what fashion. My body is pumping with adrenaline, and if you've ever had adrenaline *really* pumping through your veins you just know you're not going to carefully inspect up and down for a solution, rather, you're going to scramble furiously for something. It will be GOGOGO mode. I guess that's just me. I like to immerse myself in my character. Wether its a long or a short post I will try to respond in the way I believe would be most appropriate and true to my character. More detail in writing however is always welcome because it helps someone picture the scene better. I like the use of several desciptions here. Water gushing out of pipes. Fumbling and panicking for a key. Picking it up with nervous fingers. The sweaty palm; the desperate, nail-digging clenching. Those all add on to the experience. I can hardly see how it would be more effective without. Last edited by Balmund; 09-16-2012 at 06:41 PM. |
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09-16-2012, 06:44 PM | #14274 |
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It's just difference of opinion then. ^_^; Glad I wrote an example you liked, sorry I'm saying that were you my updatee you might not have gotten that update in that particular situation.
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09-16-2012, 06:50 PM | #14275 | |
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Let's work with your example, then. Yes, certainly there could be an argument for the short, curt reply, which is that, quite simply, the key doesn't work. Just because you read that two-line reply as being more "urgent" doesn't necessarily mean that's how your updatee will perceive it. Writing is often subjective, and what individuals prefer can vary widely. Also, one may argue that it's part of your own style as a writer to prefer that short, meaningful sentence over an 8-sentence variant; who's to say whether or not one style is better than the other? People may have preferences, but that's not an objective measure of which type of response is better for the situation at hand.
I said myself that I have never found a situation in which a short response would be anything less than cheating my updatee. That may be a reflection of my own style... or even the type of updates that I write. That said, when considering your example, in real life, your mind process may not immediately go to "it doesn't work..." Is it jamming? Will it not even fit in the hole? If it's jamming, the updatee may try to turn it a few times before coming to that conclusion. You can build tension by describing those feverish attempts at trying to get the key to work before ultimately realizing that this choice was the wrong one. I would see it going more like this: Quote:
:EDIT: Aaaaaaand I was totally ninja'd by Balmund. XD
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