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Old 08-21-2012, 06:19 PM   #1
tau
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Gaming Heresy, or "Why I hate Ezio's face"

Lemme get straight to the punch with this one, as this is my first real thread here and I wanna get things rolling smoothly.

Once upon a time, a little company called Ubisoft made a video game titled Assassin's Creed.

The game was what one would call a success! Despite some critics issues with repetitive goals, sometimes wonky jump pathing, and an arguably poor combat system, people loved it!

You loved it, I loved it, it was fun. Just pure, true fun.

What's more, in April of 2009, a sequel was officially announced and the collective gaming world got all antsy in the pantsy to get their hands on it. It improved some issues people had with the first, added new game play mechanics and introduced us to new characters, locations, and themes. It, too, was a success!

I loved it more than the first. I was, hands down, an Assassin's Creed fanboy and I'm not ashamed to admit it. But what happened next... well.

It would ruin my love of the series indefinitely.

Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood had a mechanic designed to add extra challenge to the various mission goals scattered throughout the game. This came in the form of sub-objectives- i.e. "Don't get wet", "Kill (Specific Target) with (Specific Weapon)"- that, if all completed, would net you a nifty %100 synchronization rating.

And this mechanic infuriated me. I know it was optional. I knew that then, too. But it haunted me, having imperfect scores. So I would go back, and restart every little thing- every little thing- until I had gotten it perfect.

Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood stopped being about fun for me. It became a story of tedium and boredom, of frustration and mild cursing. This game completely ruined my love for the franchise.

Yeah. Let that sink in. How stupid is that? One little optional mechanic has completely ruined my fond memories of the first two games, and left me incapable of being excited for the upcoming Assassin's Creed III.

I tell you this story, because it got me thinking- am I alone in this? Is there anyone else who has one thing, one minor pet peeve, that has completely set them off a game or franchise they would otherwise enjoy?

If so, please post! I'm honestly very curious.
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Old 08-21-2012, 06:23 PM   #2
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Real time combat in RPGs.

Fuckin' bane of my existence man

There are so many great games I want to play that I can't because they have real time combat ;;
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Old 08-21-2012, 06:38 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Amras.MG View Post
Real time combat in RPGs.

Fuckin' bane of my existence man

There are so many great games I want to play that I can't because they have real time combat ;;
Why don't you like real time combat? I'm just curious.
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Old 08-21-2012, 06:40 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Amras.MG View Post
Real time combat in RPGs.
If you're saying that you don't like FF12's or Tales of Symphonia's combat and wish things were still the way they were in 1994 with Final Fantasy VI, then I am to you what Gothitelle fans are to me. ^^;

Amras: GTFO OUT OF MY JRPG FANDOM! >O
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Old 08-21-2012, 06:44 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Amras.MG View Post
Real time combat in RPGs.

Fuckin' bane of my existence man

There are so many great games I want to play that I can't because they have real time combat ;;
A bunch of this.

On the topic of the thread: This really only seems like a problem if you're a perfectionist. To me it's "Fuck completion. Let's just enjoy playing." If not having 100% completion bothers you, I can see why you'd get mad though.
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Old 08-21-2012, 06:52 PM   #6
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On the topic of the thread: This really only seems like a problem if you're a perfectionist. To me it's "Fuck completion. Let's just enjoy playing." If not having 100% completion bothers you, I can see why you'd get mad though.
That's the whole thing for me. I'm not defending my reaction to this- it was stupid and really kinda petty on my end. But I am the type who, upon completing a mission and seeing anything less than a perfect run will be compelled to go through it again.

This isn't as much of a problem in games where there isn't an obvious grading mechanic, but when it is right there as a constant reminder that you just didn't do that well, did you? But again, that's just what I take away from that kind of thing.

The whole reason I brought it up and made the thread was because I honestly wonder if I'm some kind of over-reactionary prick, or if this is a somewhat more common phenomenon among gamers. Like, "Oh this game seems so fun, but I can't stand that art style," or "I really want to love this series, but there's this one thing that just bothers me so much I can't," you know?
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Old 08-21-2012, 06:56 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Tyranidos View Post
Why don't you like real time combat? I'm just curious.
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Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
If you're saying that you don't like FF12's or Tales of Symphonia's combat and wish things were still the way they were in 1994 with Final Fantasy VI, then I am to you what Gothitelle fans are to me. ^^;

Amras: GTFO OUT OF MY JRPG FANDOM! >O

To be quite honest, the reason I don't like it is that I'm not good at it. I do not have good coordination. I am not good at reacting to things quickly. And I haven't had much success with getting better at it over the years. Real time RPGs just aren't fun for me because I'm unable to get good enough at them to progress the plot, and it's very frustrating to play something you're not good at.

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A bunch of this.
*brofist*
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Old 08-21-2012, 07:29 PM   #8
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I know you played as Ezio (or whoever was the present day descendant of him), but I've never considered Assassin's Creed an RPG of any sort. Just like I don't consider Batman: Arkham Asylum/City an RPG. Sure you level up and invest in skills or cool gadgets, but it's not an RPG if you're not having character can make a choice or decision which alters something in the game. It's just purely an Action Game.

I'm one in the minority on Assassin's Creed. I didn't like it at the start. The fact that the game had you playing as a guy kidnapped in a lab hooked up to a machine to relive the life of your ancestor who was the super cool assassin felt... well... dumb. Why couldn't the game JUST BE ABOUT EZIO? Why did it have to include some modern day weird shit? They went from a reasonable game about an assassin to some needlessly complicated plot about... I don't fucken know.

I don't think I did even a quarter of the first game and quit. I don't care to look back.
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Old 08-21-2012, 07:57 PM   #9
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Who said Assassin's Creed was an RPG?
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:16 PM   #10
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Then why bring up your hatred of Real-Time Combat RPGs in a thread about Assassin's Creed >>;
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:18 PM   #11
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The thread is about gaming pet peeves, not Assassin's Creed =p
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:19 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Raptor Jesus View Post
Then why bring up your hatred of Real-Time Combat RPGs in a thread about Assassin's Creed >>;
To be clear, the thread isn't about Assassin's Creed entirely. It's about your gaming pet peeves, things that keep you away from a specific game or franchise. I opened with AC because that was the first example, for me, that stuck out in my mind.

His issues with real time combat in RPG's are perfectly valid discussion points in this thread.

Edit: Well, Amras beat me to it, but yeah. Pretty much that.
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:20 PM   #13
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Shedinja'd!
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:27 PM   #14
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Why put the second half of the title in then >>;;
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:33 PM   #15
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Why put the second half of the title in then >>;;
It was a lame joke taken from the premise of my original example on the topic of the thread. Had I not been a fan of z-targeting in Ocarina of Time, the thread would have been called "Gaming Heresy, or 'SHUT UP NAVI'" or something equally stupid.
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Old 08-22-2012, 06:40 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
If you're saying that you don't like FF12's or Tales of Symphonia's combat and wish things were still the way they were in 1994 with Final Fantasy VI, then I am to you what Gothitelle fans are to me. ^^;

Amras: GTFO OUT OF MY JRPG FANDOM! >O
I love FF12. Love it. Only FF I love more isd FF8. I can see why real time combat is scary at first (still sort of is - see The Last Story for the Wii for a great example!) since it freaked me out too when I first read of the idea in a gaming magazine. FF12 managed to make RTC fun. Personally, I have no idea why the game is shunned/forgotten by the gaming community so much.

It feels like the Castlevania 3 or Devil May Cry 2 of the Final Fantasies, which is a shame since the game is amazing.

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I'm one in the minority on Assassin's Creed. I didn't like it at the start. The fact that the game had you playing as a guy kidnapped in a lab hooked up to a machine to relive the life of your ancestor who was the super cool assassin felt... well... dumb. Why couldn't the game JUST BE ABOUT EZIO? Why did it have to include some modern day weird shit? They went from a reasonable game about an assassin to some needlessly complicated plot about... I don't fucken know.
I actually agree with this: Desmond is the most boring and annoying thing in the entire freaking series - and he's supposedly the main character.

My former roomate, a die-hard AC-fan, explained to me once the idea behind why Desmond and the time machine (cannot-remember-the-name) are absolutely vital to the story.

It was something along the lines of "following around the assassins wouldn't make sense without it".

Excuse me? What? When I play the games I'm annoyed when suddenly there's a "computer moment" or when you're pulled to the present time to do dumb stuff. Some things are kind of fun and have potential, such as the white holes you climb into for information in AC2 and Brotherhood, but honestly, now they're all just collectables.

After all those motherf**king FLAGS in the original AC and the feathers in AC2 I started hating being forced to collect that many items JUST for completion's sake.

10 feathers around town? Okay, can do. And there was even sentimental reasoning for it!
Over 300 flags around the whole world map for...an achievement? *gives Ubisoft the finger*

I haven't given up Assassin's Creed over the collectibles. Or Desmond. I'm actually looking forward to AC3. But Connor (new main character) had better be as great a character as Altair and Ezio and not a wuss like Desmond.

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Had I not been a fan of z-targeting in Ocarina of Time, the thread would have been called "Gaming Heresy, or 'SHUT UP NAVI'" or something equally stupid.
Yes, that's what made Ocarina of Time special. Not the great story, graphics or dungeons or any of that stuff. It was all about the Z-targeting.
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Old 08-22-2012, 08:49 AM   #17
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I love FF12. Love it. Only FF I love more isd FF8. I can see why real time combat is scary at first (still sort of is - see The Last Story for the Wii for a great example!) since it freaked me out too when I first read of the idea in a gaming magazine. FF12 managed to make RTC fun. Personally, I have no idea why the game is shunned/forgotten by the gaming community so much.
I guess not everyone likes to play on autobattle for the majority of the game, which was essentially what Gambits dumbed it down to. Mind you, I actually loved fooling around with several tactics myself, but that didn't stop most battles from being "drop the controller and go get a drink".
Of course, you weren't obligated to use Gambits, but things just felt clunky if we didn't - moreso because the battle system wasn't really RTC, but at the same time not purely turn-based either. It was really a huge mess that I happened to find enjoyable, but can certainly understand why so many didn't.

Also, FF12 had the tiny issue of having a completely irrelevant main character. I mean, you could have had the exact same plot without Vaan at all, which just feels kinda weird in retrospect. :P



As for AC, I could never really get into it as a whole. In large part because failing objectives in videogames annoys me, so I'd rather all that "get 100%" stuff wasn't there in the first place rather than spend the extra time to achieve it. And sure, it's absolutely my fault, but while I do enjoy easter eggs and extra challenges as much as anybody, AC overdoes that - like some other games where you have to do every little thing right to have full access to the plot's canon ending. It irks me. -.-
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Old 08-22-2012, 09:05 AM   #18
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Also, FF12 had the tiny issue of having a completely irrelevant main character. I mean, you could have had the exact same plot without Vaan at all, which just feels kinda weird in retrospect. :P
To go off on a little tangent - Vaan was a relatively late addition to FFXII. Originally, Basch was supposed to be the main character, but because fans had reacted poorly the last time they tried an older, more experienced main character (Vagrant Story) they changed it.

Back on topic - grinding. If I ever have to pause and fight random monsters to level up in a game above and beyond the ones I happen to run into while travelling from A to B, you've pretty much lost me. Whenever I say this, a lot of people say something like "pfft, you just don't like a challenge". This is not true. What I don't like is when a combat system is so bland and a game so poorly paced that there's no way to beat a boss without just sitting around levelling on random trash mobs to make your characters tougher.

Take FFX for an example. A lot of peoples solution to Seymour Flux and Yunalesca is "oh dear too tough must grind", but I love that game. Why? Because grinding for those bosses is the stupid mans solution - abilities and combat in that game are varied enough that if you think about it you can get past them even slightly underlevelled, but if you don't come up with some good tactics then you're totally boned unless you're way overlevelled. That's good boss design right there. I beat Flux on my second try and Yunalesca on my first, no grinding. If you've made a game where, having fought a reasonable number of random enemies en route, you can meet a boss that literally can't be beat without sitting around and grinding for a while, you've made a shit game and I'll stop playing immediately.

Applies less to optional content.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:29 AM   #19
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Another thing that irks me, that was just brought up in conversation with a good pal:

The wrathful nature of the Random Number God in Fire Emblem games. Now, this doesn't strictly count as it hasn't kept me from enjoying the series- hell, I even love Shadow Dragon, which everyone else seems to unanimously pan- but there are moments.

Oh Lord, there are moments.

Ladies and gentlemans, I present to you the worst thing you could hope to see in any given FE map:



An empty level. For those of you unaware, rather than getting guaranteed stat-raises at level up in Fire Emblem games, each character or character class has a percentage chance to gain a rank in each stat between 0% and 90% (I believe 90 is the max?)

That means that sometimes, if you're particularly unlucky and the RNG is feeling particularly vengeful, you'll get a gorram empty level. Guess what?! Reload your save, start the whole battle over, because FE is typically not the type of game where you want to be wasting level ups.

Again, I love the series, but SWEET JESUS does crap like this get grating fast.
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