UPNetwork  

Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > Anime

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-26-2012, 07:44 AM   #26
Muyotwo
Dominator of Bike Levels
 
Muyotwo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,321
Eyep, before I came to Oz I think.
__________________
The Kim Il Sung of ASB.
Muyotwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2012, 08:14 AM   #27
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
That must have been in 2004, Muyo. o_O
While it's understandable that you're surprised at the date from the 4chan side of things, it's not all that surprising from the Rozen Maiden side of things: Rozen Maiden was a Fall 2004 series. The soonest the masses would have been exposed to Suisei Seki was October 28, 2004. If Muyo happened to be watching the show as it aired, then there you go. If he even picked it up right when it ended, that'd still have been December 2004 and thus technically 2004.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 11:50 AM   #28
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
And right after I mention yesterday how I need to catch up on the manga scene and find out if it was canceled in June or not after all ...



New Anime Announced!

Now, what isn't yet known is what this anime is going to be. The announcement simply says アニメ化決定! or "anime version confirmed!" So ...

Question 1. Will it be a television series or an OAV?
Since it doesn't specify "TVアニメ" or the like, and since it also doesn't specify what length of content it's planning to cover, there's no way to know yet whether this will be an OAV, a 13-episode series, or something even longer. However, I feel that it's likely to be an anime. The only time they ever did an OAV was for the TV-canon-only Rozen Maiden: Ouverture and that was more of a desperate Season 2.2 than anything else. If they're bringing Rozen Maiden back to anime after all this time, it's bound to be a proper television anime, I feel. The only question is length, which brings us to ...

Question 2. What material from the manga will it cover?
There are three major possibilities and fans are already feverishly wondering which one it'll be.
Possibility #1: they continue from where Rozen Maiden: Träumend left off and continue to carve out a "loosely based upon the manga" story made for TV.

Possibility #2: they act like the older anime never happened and they start all over from square one.

Possibility #3: they act like the older anime never happened and they start from where Peach Pit changed manga publishers, commonly but incorrectly referred to as the "reboot."
Of these three possibilities, I feel that #3 is the most likely. I feel like the announcement would have mentioned 続き/つづき ("continuation") had it been #1, so that can probably be ruled out. To say nothing of the fact that the made-for-TV canon created a sort of clusterfuck for fans trying to reconcile manga canon with TV canon. ^^; #2 would imo be ideal assuming there was a studio with both the budget and the interest necessary to animate the entire thing from scratch again. But that's just it: since we're talking 43 manga chapters being adapted to television (so something like 36 to 52 television episodes) before you can even get to the exciting developments in the so-called "reboot" portion of the manga, I think this is a tad unlikely. Roughly two-thirds of those chapters were already adapted (however well or poorly fans want to argue for) by the earlier anime seasons. So does any studio seriously want to re-do those thirty or so chapters before getting to material never before seen on television? I kinda doubt it. You get it on occasion with the FMAs and the HxHs but can Rozen Maiden fans really expect to be so lucky? This is why I think it'll be the third of the possibilities mentioned above which'll come to be. The new anime will just start right where the manga started when Peach Pit changed publishers. And the made-for-TV version of this episode (or, more likely, of Episode 02) will have the final events of the first manga explained in greater detail here than it was in the continuation manga. Specifically, it will cover all of the stuff in the final fifteen or so chapters of the original manga for the sake of the television audience. That's what I'm betting.

Regardless of the outcome -- OAV or TV anime, reboot or continuation -- this is great news for Rozen Maiden fans.

Last edited by Talon87; 11-18-2012 at 11:57 AM.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 12:45 PM   #29
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
Suddenly, out of nowhere!
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2013, 08:59 PM   #30
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
So, as you are no doubt already aware -- and if not, then I'm about to tell you! -- it turns out that Rozen Maiden 2013 isn't a reboot after all. ^^; It's a direct continuation from where we left off. Well ... sort of.

The 2013 season, subtitled Zurückspulen (German for "Rewind", I'm told), starts off with an episode which recaps Volumes 1 thru 8 of the original manga (i.e. the manga with Publisher #1). It mostly focuses on content which was either omitted from the first two seasons of the television series or else changed from the source material. Like, a big chunk of this episode is allocated to showing how Suisei Seki originally came to the Sakurada household and who Sousei Seki was originally with. (It's different in the TV series.)

Next week's episode of Zurückspulen is going to be Tale 01 of the manga. In other words, the first chapter of the manga from when Peach Pit switched publishers. (Reminder: chapters were called Phases with Publisher #1 and Tales with Publisher #2.) In other other words ...

Spoiler: show
... Zurückspulen more or less begins in the Other World, with the Jun who chose the option "will not wind" as a boy.

As I explained in this post (warning: spoilers for the original series are in that post), this new story is not a reboot. I repeat, the show airing right now is not a reboot. It's a direct continuation of the original tale, and you'll see that for yourself once we hit Part III of the manga. (This is the start of Part II.)

So! ... if you still haven't watched the original anime series or read the manga, now is a very good time to do so. Because you mustn't watch Rozen Maiden 2013, a.k.a. Rozen Maiden: Zurückspulen, until you've done either one of these two things. Otherwise you're going to be very confused and very spoilered on a ton of the big developments in Part I.

Friendly handy-dandy guide:
  • Rozen Maiden (2004)
  • Rozen Maiden: Träumend (2005)
  • Rozen Maiden: Ouvertüre (2006)
  • Rozen Maiden: Zurückspulen (2013)
That's the order you'll want to watch things in. Alternatively ...
  • Volumes 1 thru 8 of the original manga (The two prologue chapters plus Phases 01 thru 43)
  • Rozen Maiden: Zurückspulen
If you would prefer to read the manga for the older material instead. Especially since the original TV series diverged from the manga in quite a few ways, ways that Zurückspulen's first episode seeks to partially rectify.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 11:57 AM   #31
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
I'm already confused just reading that. Then again, I thought the RM anime went into original ending territory, so it's hard for my brain to find agreement with "it's still a continuation of the manga".
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 07:40 PM   #32
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578


The fourth installment of the Rozen Maiden anime begins! Welcome to Rozen Maiden: Zurückspulen!

The first episode had quite a few surprises in store. First and foremost among these was the sad discovery that this won't be a reboot after all. Several months ago, I actually nailed it in my prediction of what this series would be:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
they act like the older anime never happened and they start from where Peach Pit changed manga publishers, commonly but incorrectly referred to as the "reboot."
But when the preview came out this spring for the anime, every fan (myself included) was duped by how all of the content shown came from the original manga. We all just naturally assumed then that the new anime was going to be a reboot. This seemed to be further confirmed when no subtitle was forthcoming. Previous sequel seasons had been given subtitles (Träumend and Ouvertüre respectively) to distinguish them from the first season, which had simply been named Rozen Maiden. So since this new series was also just being advertised as Rozen Maiden, we were hoping for the best.

Well, we Rozen Maiden fans are used to being crapped on. ^_^; And crapped on we were, you might say. 'Cause no, we didn't get the red carpet treatment afforded to series like Fullmetal Alchemist or Hunter x Hunter. Instead ... yup, we're picking up from where Peach Pit changed publishers. The first episode of the new season, now referred to as Rozen Maiden: Zurückspulen (though I'm still not entirely sure whether that's an official name or not seeing as the word Zurückspulen is nowhere to be found in the anime), basically serves to try and recalibrate the original television series and get it back in sync with the manga. It makes several notable changes, but for the most part it does its job.

But to say that we've been "crapped on" is a touch false. Because Studio Deen's Rozen Maiden is really quite gorgeous. I couldn't really tell from the preview, but getting to see the actual episode up close, it's clear just how manga-faithful a lot of the character animation is, from the dolls' eyes and eyebrows to Suigin Tou's wings. The very "liney" or "scratchy" style of Peach Pit's artwork comes across here, for better or for worse, but lends the work a much-desired air of authenticity. Furthermore, Deen went out of their way to bring back all of the original voice acting talent. Which is no mean feat when you consider that some of the voice actresses were either already stars at the time (e.g. Tanaka Rie) or else have since gone on to become stars in the years since the 2004 anime debuted (e.g. Sawashiro Miyuki). I don't imagine that that talent came cheap to Studio Deen (although maybe Tanaka Rie did. She wouldn't miss a chance to voice Suigin Tou for all the world! ), and it's definitely much appreciated by long-time fans of the franchise that all of the originals are back on board.


Newcomer Kirakishou is voiced by Chiba Chiemi. It's a wonderful performance that is even better than the one I'd imagined when reading the manga. While the Kirakishou in my head was decidedly icier and lifeless (which I think works in its own way), Chiemi's performance is brimming with warmth and love, which just makes it all that much more creepy.


Everyone's favorite ice queen is back and manages to steal the spotlight in just about every scene she's in. Unfortunately, quite a lot of her story was cut for time. (I'll discuss what was cut in the spoiler box below.) While I understand why Deen felt the need to cut a lot of this out due to time constraints, I feel like this ultimately is going to hurt the folks who try to jump into Zurückspulen thinking that they can do so without having read the manga or watched the original TV series first.


One of the biggest differences between the original manga and the television series -- some would say it's the single biggest difference -- is Sousei Seki's story. Studio Deen acknowledged this and allocated quite a bit of the episode's time to Suisei and Sousei Seki. Unfortunately ... even this had a crapton of stuff cut for time. ^^; And unless you've read the manga, you're going to be pretty lost as to what's going on here. If you're a TV watcher and have questions about this, feel free to ask and I'll try my best to fill you in.

Since I can't really discuss the rest of the episode without being spoiler-explicit, I guess it's time for the spoiler tag! Don't click if you haven't yet finished either the original manga or else all of the original TV series.

Spoiler: show


While rushed for time, I felt Deen did an excellent job animating the manga's version of Sousei Seki's death. It was really gorgeous stuff to watch, artistically. I loved how (pictured above) they had Sousei Seki's Rosa Mystica being this source of light not unlike the Moon in the night sky, and then out of nowhere from offscreen comes an ominous arm -- Suigin Tou's -- and she takes Sousei Seki's Rosa Mystica for herself. The way it was done, it was as though Suigin Tou was stealing the Moon itself, robbing the night sky of its beauty, casting all the land in darkness.


The big difference between the manga and the anime regarding how Suigin Tou obtained Sousei Seki's Rosa Mystica was originally this: in the 2005 anime, Suigin Tou defeated Sousei Seki in battle and won it; in the manga, Sousei Seki allowed herself to die rather than kill Suisei Seki but then in swooped Suigin Tou who stole Sousei Seki's relinquished Rosa Mystica for herself. Basically, the manga Suigin Tou takes what is rightfully Suisei Seki's whereas the anime Suigin Tou takes what is rightfully hers. This ends up being important to the plot for a variety of reasons and is why Studio Deen allocated so much time to setting things straight before we press forward.

First of all, the original anime Suigin Tou is canonically okay with killing her fellow sisters. No other Rozen Maiden does this in the anime except for Bara Suishou (and now, with Zurückspulen, Kirakishou). The manga Suigin Tou, on the other hand, talks a big talk about being willing to participate in the Alice Game and kill her other sisters in order to become Alice ... but she never actually kills anybody. That's not to say that she doesn't appear to try to at times, but it's up in the air. Why does Suigin Tou tear off Shinku's arm but not finish the job and kill her? The argument can be made that, in having Suigin Tou actually murder Sousei Seki in the anime, the writers of Träumend made her too evil.

Second of all, because the anime Suigin Tou rightfully earned Sousei Seki's Rosa Mystica, there's no reason why she shouldn't still have it. The Träumend writing team was at a complete loss for what to do at the end of the season; they knew that they had to end it so that five of the seven sisters were alive, with the two dead ones being Sousei Seki and Hina Ichigo. In the end, they decided to have Rozen himself come to the dolls offscreen and resurrect five of them, leaving the other two dead. Shinku speculates that it's because "Father determined that they rightfully were killed and thus don't deserve to come back to life," or some such. It's a wishy-washy explanation because if that's the case then how come the two Rosa Mysticae don't wind back up with their proper owners? That's right: the writers had Hina's and Sousei Seki's Rosa Mysticae floating around the N-Field at the end of Träumend, unclaimed by anyone. But if we're talking returning what's rightfully theirs to the dolls, then Hina Ichigo's Rosa Mystica ought to go to Shinku and Sousei Seki's ought to go to Suigin Tou (since in the anime she did kill her). If to the victor go the spoils, then why is LaPlace's Demon in possession of those two Rosa Mysticae at the end? See, this contradiction doesn't exist in the manga ... because in the manga, a) Suigin Tou never lost possession of Sousei Seki's Rosa Mystica to begin with and b) she never rightfully earned it. Which brings us to ...

Third, and most important of all, Sousei Seki's Rosa Mystica rejects Suigin Tou's body. Suigin Tou begins to physically suffer as a result of trying to keep Sousei Seki's Rosa Mystica inside of her. This becomes an important plot point later on for what we're now about to watch unfold in Zurückspulen. And the anime writers were of course stumped as to how to rectify it. Because why should a Rosa Mystica reject a doll who has rightfully earned it?

Add all these factors up together and you can well appreciate why Träumend's creative liberties taken with Sousei Seki and Suigin Tou sort of screwed them out of trying to reunite the anime and the manga under one roof.


Another of the biggest differences between the manga and the original anime -- again, many would argue it as the single biggest difference -- is Kirakishou. The anime pulled an amazing stunt where they trolled non-manga reading TV viewers (like myself! ) by introducing Bara Suishou to us as the seventh Rozen Maiden. It wasn't until the end of the series, when it was revealed that she had been an impostor, that we discovered the true seventh Rozen Maiden was dressed all in white, had her rose in the opposite eye, and appeared to hang around the N-Field. In Träumend, Hina Ichigo simply winds down for hand-wavey reasons and her Rosa Mystica finally passes to its rightful owner, Shinku. In the manga, as we see here in Zurückspulen's first episode, Hina is consumed by Kirakishou (who takes Hina's physical body for her own, by which to exit the N-Field and enter the physical world) and her Rosa Mystica finds its way to Shinku.

But even Kirakishou's story was massively, massively cut for time. >_< There were a ton of things Zurückspulen failed to establish for TV-only viewers, like:
  • how Kirakishou greatly admires Suigin Tou (though her actions, like friggin' abducting Megu, often seem to contradict this. Kirakishou is very weird! ^^; )
  • how she hypnotized Odile Fosset (granddaughter of Hina's original owner, Corinne Fosset), and how Odile came to Japan to retrieve Hina (which was part of Kirakishou's plan to procure a suitable body)

Ah well. At least it was very pretty. Honestly, I think the scene where Shinku gets Hina's Rosa Mystica, rushed though it was, was beautifully done. Much better than in Träumend.

I'm going to hold off on saying too much more about the final chapters of the original manga (especially Phase 43) because I'm wondering if Studio Deen intends to show those off next week. In the manga, half of them are shown in Phase 43 (with Publisher #1), and half of them are shown via flashback in Tale 01 (via Publisher #2). I'm thinking that Deen might plan to just show all of them via flashback, so as to avoid confusing TV viewers. If they do end up cutting all of that content out though, then I'll be sure to clue you guys in.


Until next week!

EDIT: Whoops, not sure I quite explicitly pointed this out, so there is one last thing I had wanted to mention. I said outside this spoiler box that I'd mention all the stuff missing from Suigin Tou's story. Well MY GOD, the most obvious one of all is Megu. How they could omit Megu from this episode I have no idea. She's only the second most important human character in the entire franchise. (Even more important than Nori!)

Final comments:
  • if you haven't watched the original anime yet, go and do that.
  • if you haven't read the original manga yet, you can either go and do that too, go and do that to the exclusion of the anime, -OR- opt not to do it and I'll help fill you in on the ways the manga differs from the anime
  • then you're ready to join me in watching Zurückspulen!
I look forward to having you on board. No, seriously. Please don't have me be the only Rozen Maiden fan on UPN who is ready to watch Zurückspulen. [/i]

Long post may be long, but don't be scared! Just take your time reading it bit by bit. Posts should be considerably shorter starting next week. I'll assume from that point forward that you know what happens in the manga at least up to that point and we'll only be covering one to two chapters a week now instead of, lol, forty-five.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 08:07 PM   #33
PikaGod
Marsh Badge
 
PikaGod's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,736
Okay, so I am going to watch the original anime dubbed, but before I do it seems like this would be the best place to ask my question. Was there any big 4kids-esque changes from the Japanese version of the anime?
PikaGod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 10:16 PM   #34
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
I've never watched Rozen Maiden dubbed. You might imagine I'm going to beg you to watch it subtitled, but if Japanese audio is like nails on a chalkboard to you, then I guess a dub is better than nothing at all and welcome your willingness to give the series a try.

It's doubtful that any huge changes were made to the script; I actually own the entire thing on DVD from before Geneon went bankrupt. I actually could probably check right now for you, I just realized. O_o Damn ... guess I'll do that. *gulp*
List o' Changes:
A. Cultural
For some reason, Geneon decided to preserve honorifics and tendency to call people by their family names even though these things often make no sense cross-culturally. For example, in one scene in Episode 05, a boy Nori's age who goes to the same school as her and is trying to ask her out calls her Sakurada-san. This is culturally standard. But this was translated into English as having him call her "Miss Sakurada." >_< ^^; Would you ask out a boy or a girl you went to high school with by calling them "Mister Jacobson" or "Miss Jones"?

B. Idiosyncracies
One of the cute things about Rozen Maiden is that each of the dolls has a distinct speech pattern. Many of these involve a deliberate abuse of certain ones which are normally only found occasionally at the end of Japanese sentences. For example, one character will end all of her words in "desu" even though this isn't normal. Another ends all of hers in "nano". A third in "kashira". All of this has been scrapped from the Geneon dub.

C. Lexical
For whatever reason, Geneon didn't translate things as closely as they could have. This is more of an annoyance to me than I think it would be to you, but still. Examples are like ... one character might have actually said "I'll have some!" in reference to some snacks being offered, but the English script went with "I can't wait to chow down!"
Personally, I don't care for the dub, but I was never going to be the dub's target audience anyway. For what it's worth, I think that the original voices absolutely make some of these characters (including my favorite ), so I do think it'll be a shame if you opt for the English voice acting since they're just not as skilled. But that stated, I'd say the dub sounded about on par with Cardcaptors or something. Maybe a little worse (depended on the character), but the most important ones, sure, I'd compare it with a 4Kids dub's voice acting quality. In other words, it wasn't Samurai Shodown: the Motion Picture. And of all the voice actresses, my favorite character honestly had probably the best English voice acting. So ... small victories, I guess.

You really won't watch it subbed? ;_; Think of it like watching a season of Power Rangers that never came to America ... Besides, you're gonna have to watch the new one with Japanese audio anyway. ^^; Unless you're planning on not watching it until it's dubbed. (Which could be never with the way the economy is now? A lot of anime series don't get dubbed anymore even if they do get licensed for sale in North America.)
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 11:11 PM   #35
PikaGod
Marsh Badge
 
PikaGod's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
I've never watched Rozen Maiden dubbed. You might imagine I'm going to beg you to watch it subtitled, but if Japanese audio is like nails on a chalkboard to you, then I guess a dub is better than nothing at all and welcome your willingness to give the series a try.
It's less that I don't like the Japanese audio, with the exception of sometimes when female VA's have ridiculously high voices, and more that I can't understand Japanese in the slightest, and I really have no real idea if the VA's are doing a good job. And I do watch stuff subbed but I prefer dubbed because I sometimes get really restless watching TV and end up doing something while I watch TV, my crowning achievement was playing on my computer, while playing my DS, while reading a book, while watching a TV show.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
It's doubtful that any huge changes were made to the script; I actually own the entire thing on DVD from before Geneon went bankrupt. I actually could probably check right now for you, I just realized. O_o Damn ... guess I'll do that. *gulp*
List o' Changes:
A. Cultural
For some reason, Geneon decided to preserve honorifics and tendency to call people by their family names even though these things often make no sense cross-culturally. For example, in one scene in Episode 05, a boy Nori's age who goes to the same school as her and is trying to ask her out calls her Sakurada-san. This is culturally standard. But this was translated into English as having him call her "Miss Sakurada." >_< ^^; Would you ask out a boy or a girl you went to high school with by calling them "Mister Jacobson" or "Miss Jones"?

B. Idiosyncracies
One of the cute things about Rozen Maiden is that each of the dolls has a distinct speech pattern. Many of these involve a deliberate abuse of certain ones which are normally only found occasionally at the end of Japanese sentences. For example, one character will end all of her words in "desu" even though this isn't normal. Another ends all of hers in "nano". A third in "kashira". All of this has been scrapped from the Geneon dub.

C. Lexical
For whatever reason, Geneon didn't translate things as closely as they could have. This is more of an annoyance to me than I think it would be to you, but still. Examples are like ... one character might have actually said "I'll have some!" in reference to some snacks being offered, but the English script went with "I can't wait to chow down!"
Thanks for that, really my only problem with dub changes in when they massively change story elements for the horrible aka majority of the anime I watched as a child.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Personally, I don't care for the dub, but I was never going to be the dub's target audience anyway. For what it's worth, I think that the original voices absolutely make some of these characters (including my favorite ), so I do think it'll be a shame if you opt for the English voice acting since they're just not as skilled. But that stated, I'd say the dub sounded about on par with Cardcaptors or something. Maybe a little worse (depended on the character), but the most important ones, sure, I'd compare it with a 4Kids dub's voice acting quality. In other words, it wasn't Samurai Shodown: the Motion Picture. And of all the voice actresses, my favorite character honestly had probably the best English voice acting. So ... small victories, I guess.

You really won't watch it subbed? ;_; Think of it like watching a season of Power Rangers that never came to America ... Besides, you're gonna have to watch the new one with Japanese audio anyway. ^^; Unless you're planning on not watching it until it's dubbed. (Which could be never with the way the economy is now? A lot of anime series don't get dubbed anymore even if they do get licensed for sale in North America.)
A couple of things here:
a) Honestly I am really weird in regards to voice acting, most of the time I don't think that dubs are as bad as most people tend to say, though this isn't a direct reference to anyone here fyi, with the exception of the truly horrendous stuff.
b) It actually isn't that comparable to watching a season of the Sentai due to the major differences between Sentai and Power Rangers. That being said, I have totally gone and watched a bit of the older Sentai before. <.< >.>
c) I'm actually planning on watching the dub, and then I think I am going to go and watch the subbed version before I watch the new series. That and I still have the finish reading the original manga
PikaGod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2013, 06:06 AM   #36
kaisap112
Volcano Badge
 
kaisap112's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Finland
Posts: 2,210
I guess I could give this thing a go. Starting with the original anime/s. Goodbye rest of vacation plans!
__________________
kaisap112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2013, 02:33 PM   #37
big bad birtha
Volcano Badge
 
big bad birtha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,878
I watched the first episode of the 2013 series of Rozen Maiden. I was disappointed as hell with it to be honest. I was sort of hoping this would be like FMA Brotherhood and making an improved, manga-faithful version of Rozen Maiden. Instead we get an insanely rushed first episode skimming through manga chapters until we get to a certain point of the manga. I don't really know how faithful the first series was to the manga, so I think I might be better off reading the first few volumes of the manga before watching the 2013 series. I might have missed some big events in that rushed first episode.
big bad birtha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2013, 03:58 PM   #38
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by big bad birtha View Post
I watched the first episode of the 2013 series of Rozen Maiden. I was disappointed as hell with it to be honest. I was sort of hoping this would be like FMA Brotherhood and making an improved, manga-faithful version of Rozen Maiden. Instead we get an insanely rushed first episode skimming through manga chapters until we get to a certain point of the manga. I don't really know how faithful the first series was to the manga, so I think I might be better off reading the first few volumes of the manga before watching the 2013 series. I might have missed some big events in that rushed first episode.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask. If you want me to list off difference between the anime and the manga, I can try to (or you can probably find a comprehensive list online already written by someone else somewhere). But of course if you want to read the manga for yourself, I'd say go for it. They're ... two utterly different experiences in some ways yet are largely the same in others. It's very hard to explain, but I can try.

Things that are the same:
  • characters (not just looks, but also behaviors, agendas, actions, powers, etc.) 90% to 85% of the way; 5% to 10% different
  • all of the episodes which don't advance the plot (which, imo, are some of the series' best. Like the episode with the stairs in Season 1. Or like the episode with the mailbox in Season 2.)
  • around 33-50% of the stuff that does advance the plot
Things that are not the same:
  • spoilers I can't say outside a spoiler box
  • around 50-66% of the stuff that advances the plot
  • where the focus often lies
Regarding that last bullet point, I can tell you for example that the manga places much more focus on the N-Field and LaPlace's Demon than the anime did. Hell, we never even met LaPlace's Demon in the anime until Träumend. There's a lot of technobabble (or since it's got to do with dreams and not technology I guess you'd call it dreambabble?) about how things in the N-Field work, what the N-Field really is, etc.

If you're wondering "Did the first episode of Zurückspulen omit a lot?", the answer is yes. If you're wondering "Does this mean the rest of the series is going to be like this? ", the answer is an almost definite no. Judging from the sneak peek for next week's episode, and judging from what I know about Part II of the manga. In other words, once you either get the low-down from me, from the Internet, or from reading the original manga yourself, you shouldn't have to read any additional manga if you don't want to. You should be able to tune in each week and understand Zurückspulen perfectly fine.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2013, 09:53 PM   #39
big bad birtha
Volcano Badge
 
big bad birtha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,878
I guess I'll continue watching. There were a few events during the first episode that had me thrown off. I'll try to see what I missed. Afterall, I don't know how confused I'll be when the show picks up. I'll do so through the manga. I've been meaning to read it for a while. Admittedly, I should have through my manga binge a few weeks ago.
big bad birtha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2013, 08:39 PM   #40
big bad birtha
Volcano Badge
 
big bad birtha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,878
I'm about 10 chapters through the manga. I'm enjoying it so far. It's more detailed than I remember the anime being, and I liked the small struggle Jun had with Hinaichigo when she joined (atleast I don't remember it happening in the anime). So far there aren't as many differences from this and the anime. Of course this has more description, while the anime has more SoL hijinks.

Since I'm going through this, I'll probably wait until I'm a fair way in the manga before hitting the anime.
big bad birtha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2013, 10:59 PM   #41
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by big bad birtha View Post
I'm about 10 chapters through the manga. I'm enjoying it so far. It's more detailed than I remember the anime being, and I liked the small struggle Jun had with Hinaichigo when she joined (atleast I don't remember it happening in the anime). So far there aren't as many differences from this and the anime. Of course this has more description, while the anime has more SoL hijinks.

Since I'm going through this, I'll probably wait until I'm a fair way in the manga before hitting the anime.
That's perfectly fine + understandable. By all means, please keep me posted on your progress and thoughts! And look back over this thread for some of mine if you like.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2013, 11:06 PM   #42
big bad birtha
Volcano Badge
 
big bad birtha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,878
I'm 30 chapters through the manga. After Suiseiseki joins, things start becoming quite a bit different from the anime (as far as what I can remember). Most of this has been pure character development so far, which is a big plus for me. The bonding scenes are really heartwarming, and I like the issues most of the characters have. Especially Goblin Tou's human companion. She's especially interesting. I don't really have any big issues, but god I have to keep tabs on everything going on. We sometimes have a bunch of things going on at once.

One thing, did the anime ever answer what's wrong with Jun? I'm on that part in the manga right now, but I don't remember it happening. I remember a bunch of comparisons between him and a certain special someone, but that's all. I tend to forget every event that happens in an anime after a year or so. That makes rewatching that much sweeter!
big bad birtha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 01:23 AM   #43
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Anime Jun and Manga Jun become hikikomoris for completely different reasons.

(Anime spoilers thru Season 1's final few episodes; manga spoilers thru Volume 6 or 7? I forget ...)

Spoiler: show
In the anime, Jun was the class valedictorian but then he had his first bad test result and one thing led to another, him soon being ridiculed by peers who formerly respected him for his brains. Basically, academic difficulties and a feeling of failing to live up to expectations (his own, his peers', society's, etc).

In the manga, Jun's hobby is needlework. He keeps it on the downlow but when his secret is outed by a naive girl, his peers waste no time bullying him over his faggy/girly hobby. So he becomes a shut-in as a result of this. Basically, he's a non-homosexual young man* who loves a hobby that society has declared is meant for girls only and so he's confused and angry (at himself, at the world, everyone and anyone) as a result.

* We know he's not gay because he clearly is attracted to / interested in Tomoe and vice versa. And you'll see more evidence for Jun's non-homosexuality soon this season too. Boy's definitely bi at the gayest, straight at the least gay. And I've always felt he's straight myself. Anyway ...

So yeah. Two different reasons. And since the manga reason is moreso canon than the anime reason and plays a rather significant role for Part II of the manga, I can see why the animation ground to a halt after Träumend (amongst other reasons).
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 08:35 AM   #44
PikaGod
Marsh Badge
 
PikaGod's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Spoiler: show
faggy/girly hobby. ...
Holy shit that makes me cringe.

I just started watching the original anime again:

First Episode Thoughts:
Spoiler: show
- So that's what happens when Izzy doesn't go to the Digital World :P Really not a fan of Jun at the moment.
- I feel really sorry for his sister.
- I really do like Shinku, despite the whole uptight snob thing.
- Also she has a really nice design
- The whole swearing thing really reminds me of something, but for the love of me I can't remember what that thing was.
- Do I see the beginnings of Jun coming out of his shell and not being such a little shit

Second Episode Thoughts:
Spoiler: show
- I don't like you Hinaichigo, please go away and never come back.
- Oh god that animation for repairing the window was so hokey, but I loved it.
- Oh the toilet, haha.
- Wow, Tomoe's (sp?) english VA is really bad, she sounds less sick and more like she sort of just showed up to the recording session and said some stuff.
- Love is in the air! *cue cheesy music*
- Seriously go away Hina. Your voice is grating on my ears and you don't sound any better in Japanese.
- That being said I really like the design of the place Hina takes Tomoe, and the showdown between Hina and Shinku was really great imo.
- Goddamn, she sticks around! ARGH!

PikaGod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 09:04 AM   #45
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by PikaGod View Post
Holy shit that makes me cringe.
Not language I personally ever use. I was trying to succinctly give you the correct feel for the sort of attitudes Jun encountered. Seems it did the job perfectly, just so long as you haven't mistaken those for my own attitudes or prejudices. (I assure you I have neither.)

Spoiler: show
REALITY SPOILER: I've done needlepoint artwork myself, off and on, since the age of like 11 or 12. It was the mutual hobby of my late grandmother and my grandfather and every once in a while I've felt like giving it a go myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PikaGod View Post
I just started watching the original anime again:

First Episode Thoughts:
Spoiler: show
- So that's what happens when Izzy doesn't go to the Digital World :P Really not a fan of Jun at the moment.
- I feel really sorry for his sister.
- I really do like Shinku, despite the whole uptight snob thing.
- Also she has a really nice design
- The whole swearing thing really reminds me of something, but for the love of me I can't remember what that thing was.
- Do I see the beginnings of Jun coming out of his shell and not being such a little shit

Second Episode Thoughts:
Spoiler: show
- I don't like you Hinaichigo, please go away and never come back.
- Oh god that animation for repairing the window was so hokey, but I loved it.
- Oh the toilet, haha.
- Wow, Tomoe's (sp?) english VA is really bad, she sounds less sick and more like she sort of just showed up to the recording session and said some stuff.
- Love is in the air! *cue cheesy music*
- Seriously go away Hina. Your voice is grating on my ears and you don't sound any better in Japanese.
- That being said I really like the design of the place Hina takes Tomoe, and the showdown between Hina and Shinku was really great imo.
- Goddamn, she sticks around! ARGH!

lol, it looks like I didn't crosspost my article on Hina Ichigo from years ago. Guess now's as good a time as any. I would recommend not clicking it until you're through most of the season, but since it seems you already cheated (given the bit above, which was clearly labeled as not for your eyes ), you may as well go ahead and click this too. Might give you second thoughts on Hina, but otherwise is probably promised to give you a bit of a sigh spells and some chuckles. EDIT: Actually ... it's pretty spoiler safe. I worded it in a way to avoid spoiling newcomers on stuff too deep into the series. So click away once you're through Episode 03, I'd say.

Spoiler: show
2013 disclaimer: I wrote this back in 2005. A lot has changed since then, but I'm going to leave the text unedited for your own amusement. Enjoy.

Hina Ichigo is one of my all-time favorite characters in an anime. She isn't terribly deep (although she is deep enough that it makes her character really sweet). She also isn't terribly important to the plot. However, she definitely lives up to her name. She may be little, but she's filled with sugar and is as sweet as can be.

The writers of Rozen Maiden clearly wanted to make Hina Ichigo "the typical kindergartner". She's very kind and considerate of others feelings. But she is also very innocent, to the point that she may say things out of turn without realizing that they can hurt somebody else's feelings. She throws childish tantrums every now and then, such as pleading Shinku to pick her up, or making everybody in the house try and guess what her favorite food is without her saying anything besides, "it's black, red, and unyu". She cries often. She gets scared of the dark or loud noises. She is easily amused. She's a very well-developed child if I can say that she has shown several signs of *all* of these factors in the first 75 minutes of the series.

I had mentioned that I think Hina Ichigo is respectably deep. Some may have issue with that, as her background story is by no means novel. However, while it might be a little cliche, it is presented in a very emotional, very realistic setting.
  • We have little Hina, who had a medium many decades ago with whom she played. Then, one day, the medium (an adult woman at the time) told Hina Ichigo, "I can't play right now. But go to sleep inside your box, and I'll play with you later, I promise." The box closed, putting Hina in the dark. (Keep in mind that she hates the dark.) And the box was not reopened ... for over sixty years. Her personality is "I want to play! I want to play! I want to play!", so it comes as little surprise that she wants to play with her new medium 24/7.
  • On the other hand, we have Tomoe. She's a 12 year old Japanese girl trying to keep up with her studies, athletics, and boy problems. When she first finds Hina Ichigo, she doesn't hesitate to swear on the little doll's rose ring. "I promise I'll play with you." But she doesn't realize how demanding the doll will be. Hina wants to play every possible second. So we really can't blame Tomoe for wanting out of the deal.
  • So then we have poor little Hina, who is this mightily-powerful doll whose number one desire is to play with her medium. So when Tomoe tells Hina Ichigo, "I can't play right now", Hina has finally had enough. She tells Tomoe her sad life story, and when Tomoe still begs Hina to let her go, Hina (like any child) takes what she can by force. She opens the door to another dimension and sucks Tomoe in along for the ride, despite the girl's horrified pleas to let her go. It is truly something taken straight from a horror movie and would send shivers down most people's spines ... if not for the fact that we can actually sympathize with "the devil doll" in this scenario. We understand what she's gone through and why she is doing this. But it's still creepy as all hell. "Come play with me ... forever."
Some may question why Hina Ichigo is not as demanding in her new home with Jun (as of episode 3 onward), but the answers should be clear enough. A, Shinku is keeping her in check. B, Hina Ichigo wants to play specifically with Tomoe. C, Hina Ichigo cannot be parted from Shinku any more. D, Shinku will (obviously) not be going to Tomoe's house 24/7. So, like any child who wants cookies but realizes that they're just out of reach, Hina Ichigo bottles up her depression inside herself and gives up. Aww.

As you can tell, I have a lot of sympathy for this character, as well as a lot of love. She's just so amazingly cute. I would very much love to have my own Hina Ichigo some day. *hint hint* (has been searching the Internet to no avail; one dude made the Rozen Maiden dolls out of real dolls, but I want an anime-feel replica)

For fellow Hina Ichigo fans (or for those who despise the useless little brat), I will say this -- she plays an interesting role in both the mid-series climax and one of two "series climaxes" at the end. It would be very incorrect to say that she is useless ... ^_-

So yeah. Hina Ichigo is one of those "you either love her or you fucking despise her" characters. I would encourage you to like her because she's no less important to the story than any of the other sisters (and in fact is arguably more important than quite a few of them), but obviously you can't fundamentally alter your likes and dislikes so if you really really hate her then I'll say just grin and bear it for the scenes she's in and then enjoy the subsequent scenes.

Two of my all-time favorite episodes are Hina Ichigo episodes. (One is Season 1 Episode 5. The other is a Season 2 episode, the number of which I don't exactly remember but it has to do with Hina trying to mail Jun a letter.) I think you should enjoy both of these. I hope you will, at any rate.

Not to grind your gears or anything, but part of the problem is that you've chosen to watch the dub, and from what I saw, English Hina Ichigo is one of the worst voice acting performances ever. You have a woman who is CLEARLY in her upper 30s, lower 40s who is (in her head) trying to talk like a little girl ... but she winds up just sounding like a grown woman speaking in a higher-pitched voice all the time. There isn't a soul in this world who would mistake her voice acting for the voice of an authentic child. While Japanese Hina's voice is also pretty shrill and grating at times, a) it's still kinda meant to be. She is supposed to be like a bratty little 5-year old, after all, and b) it at least passes for the imitation of a child's voice. You're absolutely right that Japanese Hina's voice isn't exactly honey either, but I've not heard anything quite so pathetic as English Hina's voice in a long time. (Remember when I said in an earlier post that certain English voice actresses' performances ruined some of my favorite characters? Yeah. That. ^^; )
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 06:37 PM   #46
kaisap112
Volcano Badge
 
kaisap112's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Finland
Posts: 2,210
I guess I should join in on this, since I started watching the original series today.

My favorite doll
Spoiler: show
somehow ended up being Suiseiseki. Team Desu! :3

Least favorite is Miss Black, Suigintou. I'm not entirely sure why I dislike her so much, but it might be the whole villain emo black angel thing she's got going on that I've seen around the Internet. She's got a big fanbase from the looks of it...

I'm only through Episode 6 now and these opinions might still change, though.
__________________
kaisap112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 07:42 PM   #47
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578

Rozen Maiden Zurückspulen Episode 02 was amazing. Or, more restrained, it was a really, really good adaptation of the manga chapter. Night and day different from the 45-in-1 fiasco of last week's episode, you'll be glad to hear. It covers one and a half chapters from the manga -- all of Tale 01 and the first nine pages of Tale 02 -- and it does so very nicely. At times I think my own imagination with the manga was better, but there are a few points where the team really impressed me with their own superior take on a scene or cel. It's clear that the staff at Studio Deen are fans of the series and are trying their best to deliver a product which will not only meet fans' hopeful expectations but which will stand the test of time as well.

Spoiler: show

While the anime did skip over the prologue to Part II of the manga, you can easily find it online, I'm sure, either raw or English translated, take your pick. It's just a very few pages that Peach Pit had published in their new publisher's magazine as their way of announcing to everybody that they were back and with whom. It introduces the 少女を作り方 / How To Make A Girl series, which is why I didn't feel that the picture outside of the spoiler box was a spoiler: the entire world saw it before even seeing Tale 01.

The opening chapters of the second manga introduce us to Sakurada Jun ... in the Did Not Wind world. :o In this world, Jun circled "Do Not Wind" on the letter LaPlace's Demon sent to him when he was a shut-in during middle school. This Jun eventually emerged from his bedroom on his own; but without the lessons learned from Shinku and the others that Did Wind Jun learned, the Did Not Wind Jun remained a rather quiet, defeated loner.

As you guys saw for yourselves by the end of the episode, Part II is a direct continuation of Part I; it is not a reboot! At the end of episode, we see the younger Jun (the Jun of the Did Wind World) contacting the older Jun (the Jun of the Did Not Wind world). He tells him that Kirakishou has defeated most of the dolls, and that he's currently with Canaria trying to get Shinku back. Wait ... younger Jun's with Canaria!? What!? (Don't worry, all shall be revealed eventually. )


This episode also introduces Saitou, one of Did Not Wind Jun's coworkers at the bookstore. I think the manga was a little more subtle about the fact that she was kind towards Jun. In the manga, there's this feeling early on that she's just as much of a bitch as Jun's boss is a dick. That her and the manager are two peas in a pod while poor Jun's stuck with them. I think the way the anime presented Saitou made it a bit more obvious right from the get-go that she was just awkwardly going along with the flow of the manager's conversations but that she was uncomfortable doing so and that she actually thinks Jun's a nice guy. A really, really nice guy.


One thing I'm really loving about this anime is how it's the best of both worlds between the 2004 anime and the manga. On the one hand, like the 2004 anime, this TV series breathes color and life into what was originally a black-and-white manga. On the other hand, like the manga, this anime preserves Peach Pit's artstyle quite a bit. You can see it largely in the eyes (like in the sample above; click to see the full-res version) and just in general with how the heads and faces are drawn. This feels like the color, motion version of the manga. That's pretty neat. I already prefer it to the original anime's character designs ... with one exception, I think, and that's Suigin Tou's wings. ^^; Definitely prefer the beautiful feathery wings of the original anime to the raggedy lines of Peach Pit's. (Though they're meant to be raggedy, I get that. But they're also meant to be feathers, not steel wool. ^^; )

Now for some bad news. I was looking at MyAnimeList and I couldn't help but notice that the episode count for this season of Rozen Maiden has been filled in. And the magic number is ... 13. The thing is, I don't believe it. And I can tell you why, but it'll require me to mention which chapter in the manga wraps up the current story arc.

Spoiler: show
Part II of the manga (which is what we've just started) ends with Tale 25; Part III begins with Tale 26. To me, this would all but guarantee one of two outcomes:
1. a 24-to-26 episode series which covers the entirety of Part II at an approximate ratio of one chapter per episode. That would be frustratingly sparse at times though, admittedly, and as we even saw with this week's episode, they already dipped into a second chapter to try and make the episode a bit more meaty before those ending credits rolled.

2. a solid, unbroken continuation of the manga, i.e. we're going to get not only Part II but Part III as well, and it's all going to be under the blanket title "Rozen Maiden" and we're never going to skip a week (except for the usual holiday breaks), and it's going to end up being 36+ episodes long.
Unfortunately, though, it look like we're instead going to get a third outcome:
3. a 13-episode series that condenses 25 chapters down into 13 episodes
Honestly, this isn't too bad of a choice -- in fact, I think I'd strictly prefer it to Option 1 -- but it's not 100% ideal either. A lot of the later chapters in the story arc are jam packed with action, and I'd hate for those awesome fight scenes to be cut short just for the sake of time. Also, I don't know that, if you were to follow Episode 02's pacing, you'd even be able to cram all twenty-five chapters in to just thirteen episodes. I feel like it'd be more likely to produce nineteen episodes or some such.

So I dunno. We'll see. I'm crossing my fingers that MAL is wrong, but if it's not, well, ... I'm crossing my fingers that we get all of Part II before having to say goodbye again. >.< It would really, really suck if this ended up being a 13-episode series that ended right in the thick of things.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2013, 12:21 AM   #48
big bad birtha
Volcano Badge
 
big bad birtha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,878
I read all of the manga bits the first episode of the 2013 episode covered. Unfortunately, there's a bit of a problem. I'd rather not stop reading, and after seeing that the 2013 anime is only 13 episodes, I'll probably just plow through the manga and watch anime episodes as they air.

It'd be silly to put the manga down and start watching at this point anyway, since so much is happening. Admittedly I don't fully buy what's happening right now, but that's neither here nor there.
big bad birtha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2013, 12:35 AM   #49
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
You really shouldn't. Starting around Chapter 12 or 13 or something, the initial translator (Jpns --> Eng) vanished. The remaining chapters have been translated by Telephone Game (Jpns --> Rssn --> Eng) and are only like 70% accurate, 30% rewrite. I found out when I ran out of scanlated chapters myself and moved to raws ... only to discover that so, so much had been totally made up in the translated chapter. Not sure whether the blame's the Russian's, the English speaker's, or neither and it's just things getting fucked up because of the telephone effect, but still. Would recommend you put the manga down now and watch weekly. Feel free to do with that advice what you will.

(I'd also discourage it since, as a non-raw reader, you're going to get BONED when you catch up. ^^; The last I saw a few weeks ago, the English project just reached the chapters I read raw a year ago ... and it's ONE HELL OF A CLIMAX.)

EDIT: Figured I would've talked about it last year. Here you go, my big bad brother. Check out this post and make an informed decision. Whatever you decide, I'll be happy to help. Read on and discuss with me or pause and speculate madly each week: the choice is yours. But yeah, click that link and read that post. ^^;

EDIT 2: The above isn't the raw jump I mentioned at the start of the post. The raw jump happened around the time when {spoiler character} is dangling a foot off of {spoiler place or thing}. It's around Tale 35 or something iirc. I then went back and read raw from like Chapter 20-something forward.

EDIT 3: Here it is. Don't click the spoiler box, obviously. Scroll down and read the paragraph beneath it.

Last edited by Talon87; 07-14-2013 at 12:59 AM.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2013, 01:10 AM   #50
big bad birtha
Volcano Badge
 
big bad birtha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,878
That's really discouraging. I went and checked the first few bits of Tale 21 and saw what you were talking about. It was pretty bad. I might see how long I can put up with it, but god damn if they really say "Come at me bro!" or some shit like that, I'm stopping.
big bad birtha is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > Anime


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:13 AM.


Design By: Miner Skinz.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.