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Old 07-21-2013, 08:38 AM   #1
Arnold
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Bulbasaur Suggestions/ Enquires Thread

Suggest..enquire...or both.
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Old 07-21-2013, 10:36 AM   #2
Missingno. Master
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Well, I do have an idea, involving Hidden Abilities in FB. As I understand it, currently the only Pokémon that have their Hidden Abilities are the small handful that came from the Dream World event. My suggestion is; add a new variety of Egg to the Egg House, perhaps call it the Hidden Egg. Essentially, it would work just like the Enigma Egg, but the Pokémon that hatch would all have their Hidden Abilities. For obvious reasons, this Egg would have restrictions attached to its collection, not unlike the Mystery and Enigma Eggs (one every three months, maybe?), and to minimize trolling, would not hatch Pokémon where the entire evolution line has no Hidden Ability (which basically excludes everything that can only have Levitate, the Slakoth and Ferroseed lines, and probably a few others I'm likely forgetting). I feel that this would be an excellent way to allow more Hidden Abilities into FB, while at the same time ensuring they continue to be rare.
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Old 07-22-2013, 08:52 AM   #3
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Since the closure of the Dream World campaign there has been an intention to one day work on a way to introduce Hidden Abilities. The way in which this will happen has still not been determined because it's not yet come up for serious discussion as there was no particular rush on it, but if you feel you'd like them added then we can work on it. We've no problem with introducing them, but it won't be via the Egg House.

Any suggestions made need to be clearly thought out, and one of the big questions you need to ask yourself before presenting it to us is, "How much do I want this, and what am I willing to do to get it?"

Rather than asking for something to be incorporated in such a way that you don't have to do very much at all to obtain it such as making a five word post in a shop saying, "Picking up an Enigma Egg", start thinking about what you can do to earn it.

To keep it in perspective in order to obtain a Dream World Pokémon you'll need to have a dream world adventure. You'll need to earn it. There are a number of ways in which this can be done so if you'd like to come back to us with suggestions on how to do it please feel free to brainstorm it with others and return to us with some viable ideas.

Most of the suggestions that came to us before were about us giving you things which is why they were denied and probably why people stopped asking, because they thought they'd be turned down. It doesn't have to be that way. Any suggestions that are put forth involving us giving handouts will be denied, but if you want something that you're willing to work towards obtaining we'll be far more open to the suggestion.
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Old 07-22-2013, 10:24 PM   #4
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I wanted to suggest a way to keep some TMs in a bit of circulation, since they have been cut out of the CfP. I was thinking about a type of assortment pack available to buy, maybe once per month, or every two months, gauged either on a by-member basis (30 days must pass before one may pick another up) or a small window of time (such as the first of the month only, or the second Friday, etc). The idea is an assortment pack of about 7 TMs, all of them randomly chosen, purchasable for about 25,000-30,000. It would include 3 random Common TMs (ones that were priced up to 2,500 Coins when they were in CfP), 2 random Uncommon TMs (ones that were priced from 3,000 to 7,500 Coins when in the shop), 1 random Rare TM (8,000-9,500 Coins) with a 1 in 5 chance of it being a random Super Rare TM (The old 10,000 Coin ones), and then one RNG'd from the entire list. This would allow people to get some TMs so the Market isn't dry for them, but cutting down supply and making people work for them (Coins will have to be saved up). The exact value and number is just a basic suggestion, of course.
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Old 07-23-2013, 04:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kairne View Post
I wanted to suggest a way to keep some TMs in a bit of circulation, since they have been cut out of the CfP. I was thinking about a type of assortment pack available to buy, maybe once per month, or every two months, gauged either on a by-member basis (30 days must pass before one may pick another up) or a small window of time (such as the first of the month only, or the second Friday, etc). The idea is an assortment pack of about 7 TMs, all of them randomly chosen, purchasable for about 25,000-30,000. It would include 3 random Common TMs (ones that were priced up to 2,500 Coins when they were in CfP), 2 random Uncommon TMs (ones that were priced from 3,000 to 7,500 Coins when in the shop), 1 random Rare TM (8,000-9,500 Coins) with a 1 in 5 chance of it being a random Super Rare TM (The old 10,000 Coin ones), and then one RNG'd from the entire list. This would allow people to get some TMs so the Market isn't dry for them, but cutting down supply and making people work for them (Coins will have to be saved up). The exact value and number is just a basic suggestion, of course.
This seems like a great idea, but the price is crazy, the max value of TMs that you get is 25000, so wouldn't a better price be like 20,000 or even, 17,000
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Old 07-23-2013, 05:43 PM   #6
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Actually, the max value would be, if incredibly lucky, 42,500 (3 * 2,500 + 2 * 7,500 + 10,000 + 10,000), where a minimum value would be, if incredibly unlucky, 18,000 (3 * 1,000 + 2 * 3,000 + 8,000 + 1,000), making 25,000 a fairly decent price for it.
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Old 07-23-2013, 09:05 PM   #7
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First of all, I didn’t talk this over with anybody; from an outside perspective, some of these may be really terrible ideas, but I’ll take the risk :P Also, if any of these are already being worked over by the staff, sorry. Finally, I’m sorry if some of these points come across as “passive aggressive”, which is something I remember the staff complaining about recently. I really don’t mean to come off like that, but I wasn’t sure how to word some of these any other way.


FB Shops


Daycare Centre
Spoiler: show
I’ll intentionally start off on the wrong foot here with a “selfish” proposition. FB changed drastically since October last year; the Unlimited Slots rule changed pretty much everything and was a huge success. But the result of it was, naturally, everyone ends up with many underlevelled Pokemon. Most people’s teams are made up of a bunch of Lv 1’s that no player can reasonably raise at a consistent pace during their “FB lifetime”. My proposition is entirely one-sided and involves you giving us something with no effort from our part, and I know you said you’d ignore those, but I think it’d be an improvement for the current landscape: Make the Daycare Center work like the current Beauty Salon: a half-week stay gives a Pokemon 1 Level, and a full week 2 Levels.
I realize what I’m asking, but I hope you also realize that we have a glaring lack of alternatives: in the games, you can strengthen a Lv 1 newborn in no time by grinding through countless battles and/or attaching Exp Share or Lucky Egg to speed things up. In FB there is no reliable method of raising our Pokemon outside of a very restrictive Daycare system, and it’d be utopian to suggest a way to simulate wild battles at an acceptable pace; it’d always involve a dedicated updater and we all know how that always turns out.
So, at the risk of sounding spoiled, my suggestion seems like a decent alternative. It’s not reasonable to expect someone to evolve their whole 20-Pokemon team during their stay in FB, but why shouldn’t he be able to? Because staff doesn’t want to make things “too easy”? This is a game at its core, where people are encouraged to RP as their favourites , but if level-up spots aren’t available (and I can’t think of a reliable way to have them), I really think the Daycare should offer more to adapt to this new reality. It’d render Daycare passes obsolete, or they’d have to be tweaked as well, but that’s a minor concern. It’s not about handing us things for free, it’s about keeping up with a reality that has changed for the better. Back when teams were restricted to 6 or 9 Pokemon for several years, it worked. Right now, I don’t think it does. I know some purists/veterans will argue that it’s asking too much and that they’ve raised their Pokemon the hard way, and heck, so did I, but people shouldn’t be discouraged from taking advantage of the Unlimited rule by the statistical impossibility that is raising their full team in a reasonable amount of time.



Beauty Salon
Spoiler: show
Picking up where I left off, I also have some issues with the Beauty Salon right now, but these are the complete opposite of the Daycare Centre: it moves way too fast. Two suggestions here: one, drop the “Beauty Points” concept entirely, changing it to Friendship, and make Beauty evolutions work with a maxed Beauty Contest Stat; two, change the Friendship gain from 2 points per week to 1 point every two weeks. Why? Because how can I justify a newborn Pokemon being willing to die for me after 5 weeks of being in the Salon, 90% of the time without a single line of RP to back it up? Friendship is gained too fast with too little effort, when it should be one of the hardest things to earn: it requires time and patience for a Trainer and his Pokemon to bond; as it is right now, we can have almost insta-Blissey, insta-Espeon, even insta-Lucario and I am guilty of this last one. But objectively it’s wrong and way too easy in my eyes now, building Friendship should be a much slower process.



Egg House
Spoiler: show
This was brought up by Rakurai recently, and I agree: looking at the current type pool, there’s no reason why Mystery Eggs should only come around every two months. If you want to keep them relatively rarer, I’d say either swap them around with Enigma Eggs, making it a Mystery Egg per month and Enigma every two months (making those Fossils even harder to get, which might not be ideal), or really just make both of them available every month. I wouldn’t even be opposed to making Mystery a regular egg group to be picked up every two weeks, but I get why you’d be against that.



Adoption Centre
Spoiler: show
The Adoption Center used to thrive back when I joined, probably because of the PC restrictions at the time. A lot of Pokemon weren’t being taken up when offered, wich isn’t really the case right now; everyone can afford to give a Pokemon shelter, if only because they “don’t like” seeing them being dropped off. I’m not saying it’s a good thing to have a bunch of Pokemon in the AC, but the Shop is kinda pointless right now if the only ones that ever land there are the odd Shard Quest Pokemon every month or so. A lot of the problems were already worked out by the staff, like disallowing requests and such, but how about we make it so that, if a Pokemon is hatched at the Egg House but isn’t picked up after 3 days, it’s forfeit and staff put it up for adoption? If mods are expected to produce a hatchling within 24 hours of a request, giving the player 72 hours to pick it up is more than reasonable (with some leeway if the player is unable to but warns beforehand).
I know there was a similar system in place up until recently, but I don’t think the ‘mon went to the AC, did it? If it did, ignore this whole topic. :P If it didn’t, it’s something to think about. It’s not a problem that needs fixing, really, but a suggestion to keep the shop a little more lively; almost nobody forgets to pick up their hatches anyway, so it’s not like it’d change much.



Coins for Prizes
Spoiler: show
I could go on forever about this shop. :P I’ve posted a price revision suggestion in the Private Forum, and I know prices are being revised at the moment, but I’ll copy/paste it here. In hindsight, some of these suggestions aren’t great, and they don’t cover all the TMs, but it’s a start:

“[10,000 coins] Explosion, Giga Impact, Hyper Beam
[ 9,500 coins] Fissure, Horn Drill
[ 9,000 coins] Overheat, Self Destruct
[ 8,500 coins] Blizzard, Fire Blast, Focus Blast, Thunder
[ 8,000 coins] Focus Punch, Mega Kick, Sky Attack
[ 7,500 coins] Acrobatics, Double-Edge, Solarbeam
[ 7,000 coins] Dynamicpunch, Earthquake, Egg Bomb, Iron Tail, Sludge Wave, Stone Edge, Zap Cannon
[ 6,500 coins] Body Slam, Brine, Dark Pulse, Drain Punch, Dragon Claw, Dragon Pulse, Flamethrower, Frost Breath, Frustration, Giga Drain, Gyro Ball, Ice Beam, Mega Punch, Psychic, Return, Scald, Shadow Ball, Sludge Bomb, Thunderbolt, Venoshock, Wild Charge
[ 6,000 coins] Avalanche, Brick Break, Dig, Dream Eater, Energy Ball, Fire Punch, Flash Cannon, Grass Knot, Ice Punch, Payback, Poison Jab, Retaliate, Rock Slide, Shadow Claw, Submission, Thunderpunch, Tri Attack, X-Scissor
[ 5,000 coins] Bulldoze, Dragon Tail, Façade, Headbutt, Low Sweep, Psyshock, Razor Wind, Secret Power, Skull Bash, Sky Drop, Smack Down, Snarl, Steel Wing, U-Turn, Volt Switch
[ 4,000 coins] Aerial Ace, Bubblebeam, Charge Beam, Dragonbreath, Echoed Voice, Flame Charge, Pluck, Round, Seismic Toss, Shockwave, Silver Wind, Water Pulse
[ 3,500 coins] Bullet Seed, Dragon Rage, Hidden Power, Icy Wind, Metronome, Natural Gift, Psywave, Rock Smash, Rock Tomb, Sleep Talk, Struggle Bug, Swift
[ 3,000 coins] False Swipe, Fling, Mega Drain, Nightmare, Rollout, Thief, Water Gun
[ 2,000 coins] Incinerate, Mud Slap, Pay Day
[ 1,000 coins] Fury Cutter, Rage, Snore

I might have missed a couple. With the current Base Power + added effects, since several changed in Gen V, I feel some TMs were going for the wrong price. I don't think there's any reason a Flash Cannon should ever be more expensive than an Ice Beam just because a 70 BP attack is the best TM Steel Types get. It's a suggestion in case you ever consider reviewing prices. Also, I didn't touch "defensive" or stat TMs, even if some don't make a lot of sense either. (why is Swords Dance cheaper than Rock Polish?)
Also, since accuracy rarely applies in FB, I figured an attack like Mega Kick would almost always be superior to Double Edge, hence the suggested difference in price. “


That was my suggestion 4 months ago, and now I’d like to add some more to this: evolution items. Person A, owning a Dusclops, has to pay 30k coins to have a Dusknoir, while Person B, owning a Kirlia, only has to pay 4k (was it? I forget) to have a Gallade. Why this disparity? It makes very little sense for some evos to cost almost 8 times as much as others. It also doesn’t make sense that Dawn and Dusk Stones are dirt-cheap while you have to move mountains and wait months for the RNGods to produce what you need at the Egg House for a Fire Stone, and pray on top of it that the hatcher trades it over. Some evolution items are too expensive, some are way too cheap, and it’s hard to find a reason for it. My suggestion is to set the price of all evolution items at, say, 20k coins. You’ll still need an investment to own that illusive last form, but you don’t have to give up a kidney for a Magmortar. You can even set it at 30k if you want, the important thing is that item prices are evened out, especially considering how hard it is to get those that aren’t for sale.

Also, CfP Pokemon. We’ve been voicing opinions on this ever since the rotations started, so here’s my opinion on the subject again: Super Rares are badly overpriced. I can accept a guaranteed Rare of unlimited availability and gender choice to be set at 100k, but 400k for a Super is too much. My suggestion: bump Ultra Rares up to 500k (Ultras in general are worth it, not just Porygon) and knock down Supers to 250k-300k coins. This has been intensely debated and you also made your opinions clear on the matter, so I’ll stop here, but I had to get this out there for your consideration again. Something that also makes sense to me is to make CfP Pokemon rotate out every two months instead of every month. It’s exceedingly hard to make enough money in FB to meet these CfP standards, so prolonging each batch’s stay will hopefully give people time to gather enough coins for that one big want – because once it rotates out, the odds of ever seeing it again in your FB lifetime are very, very slim.

Finally, a personal gripe. When I joined Fizzy Bubbles, and I’ve said this before, one of the things I found most original was the use of Rare Candies as currency. It was, and is, brilliant. I’m saddened by the fact that they have become almost useless as means of payment and completely taken a backseat to coins in almost every aspect. I’d like to propose that items and/or Pokemon from the CfP be purchasable with both coins and candies, whichever ratio you consider appropriate (like Super Rare CfP ‘mon costing 300k coins OR 50 candies, for example). You can rename the shop “Cash for Prizes” or whatever else to reflect this, but it’d give Candies a chance to shine again – as it is, they only serve to level up Pokemon (in itself useless except for evolving) and pay for Move Tutor services.



Berry Shop
Spoiler: show
Almost nobody really cares about Berries. The reason is, people don’t battle enough to use battle-effect Berries, and there are no Contests to use the others. I understand it’s the staff’s intention to bring back Contests “eventually”, so I imagine things will change a bit, but even with the way things are now (“berries = useless”) I think they’re being given away too carelessly.
You went to the trouble of assorting Berries as Common, Rare, Super Rare and Ultra Rare. So how about we make what’s “super rare” actually live up to the name? My suggestion is, only hand out Common or Rare Berries on Wednesday giveaways (or drop the concept entirely). Make Super Rare Berries non-purchasable, like the Liechi, and only give them away via Lucky Draw prizes or some other giveaways, and only award Liechi on FB Anniversaries, or not even that often. Make people treasure those “Super Rare” berries for the day when Contests do return; I won’t suggest a rarity revision because I know absolutely nothing about Contests, but I really think the current system is too liberal and renders Berries worthless, even for collectors (what’s the challenge if everything is purchasable or gained for free except one berry?). Also, bump up the price on Common and Rare Berries a bit, say 500 and 1000 coins respectively. Like I said, I don’t know anything about Contests, but it seems to me that it’s much too easy to get the whole collection of Berries, in any number, with very little effort, meaning it’s really easy to boost Contest Stats at the moment. To me, if I was into that, I’d want it to feel like an accomplishment, but I’ll understand if the majority disagrees with me on this.

Something I’d like to see implemented, but I admit to having zero suggestions as to how, would be a way to harvest our own Berries. It could introduce the rarer Berries back into the circuit faster than by giveaways only if/after they were removed from the shop, and it would add a farming simulation component to the game which I think some people would enjoy. I’m a nutter for those so this is mostly wishful thinking, but do you think we could work something out?



Breeding Centre
Spoiler: show
Terribly underutilized, and this tendency will continue to exist all the more nowadays when nobody is remotely close to getting new Lv 100s. Of course a handful will, and those might vehemently disagree, but I think it’s time we allow less uber beings to use their genitals. Back when PC slots existed, getting our Pokemon to Lv 50 was the goal to unlocking them, and the magical number we always aimed for and that made us hoard all those Candies. Keeping the minimum level for breeding at 100 is simply impractical nowadays no matter how long the shop is open (not to mention how little RP sense it makes, but I understand there needs to be a limit), so why don’t we lower the breeding level to 50? It’s a target level that most people were already used to aiming for, only for different reasons, and it actually makes the shop useful other than seeing one post per year by the occasional veteran who’s been around long enough to breed two of his gods. Breeding itself is a mechanic with tons of RP potential, severely hampered by impossibly-high conditions, so I really think this is worth a look. People argued when slots were gone that the incentive to raise a ‘mon to 100 was all but gone; with this, it’d be completely gone; but to be fair, the only reason one should get Lv 100s in the first place is for bragging rights, or for some kind of elite Tournament/event for the “best of the best”; but not as a means to reproduce! :P And although I haven’t talked about it yet, if there was any way to reintroduce Hidden Abilities to FB, maybe we could have a held Everstone guaranteeing an offspring with a Hidden Ability.



Training Centre
Spoiler: show
There’s something that has always irked me: Pokemon who learn Fly, Surf and Waterfall know them from the start. Why? Fly and Surf don’t mean the ability to fly or swim, they mean the ability to carry someone while flying or swimming! A newborn shouldn’t be able to do that, nor climb a waterfall… right? I suggest that Fly, Surf and Waterfall should have to be taught like any other HM move.
I also disagree with this service being free. In the games, you always have to overcome some kind of obstacle or progress enough in the main storyline to earn these special moves. At the very least, I should have to pay to have my Pokemon learn them in FB. Right now, I have a Bibarel who can pretty much overcome any kind of terrain obstacle that an updater might throw my way, while simultaneously knowing a bunch of powerful STAB moves, simply because I dropped him off for a month in a shop without a care in the world. I’m grateful, it’s super useful, but it’s also wrong. :P I think HMs should cost 1 Candy each to be taught, like EMs and MTs in the Move Tutor shop.



Move Tutor
Spoiler: show
It’s no secret this is my favourite shop, even more than the Egg House. I love most of its services and wouldn’t touch them one bit, except for two details. First, and this applies to other shops as well: We should drop the Serebii Pokedex in favour of the Veekun Pokedex for moveset confirmation. The Serebii dex is a mess, especially Gen I&II, not to mention separate links for separate Gens. Veekun condenses all of them into one, meaning the link for any one Pokemon is always the same. Easier for everyone.
Also, we all know that the Pledges suck. Sure they’re special for being Starter-only moves and all that, but they’re close to useless. So I suggest cutting the price for learning Pledge moves from 3 Heart Scales to 1 while keeping the original price for the ultimate moves.



Adventure Rewards and Updater Rewards

Spoiler: show
This might have been better off posted in the Private Board, but at the same time it belongs here more than anywhere else.

At the moment, updaters aren’t allowed to award their players with (among many other restrictions) evolved Pokemon, and this is a big problem for me. Either way it’s common courtesy to consult staff before deciding on an end-of-story reward, so we’re subjected to approval even after we’ve shaped an entire story around a prize that might not even be allowed. But this restriction in particular means I will never be able to base an adventure around a Poliwhirl, for example, which by itself puts a hamper on creativity. I have to work the plot around a Poliwag at best, then have my updatee toil for at least a whole calendar year (because let’s face it, how many adventures outside the AR last less than that?), while he watches dozens of Poliwag hatch in the Egg House, until he can finally capture the… completely unremarkable Water-Type. It bugs me, and it always has, because it’s treating updaters like dangerous people who are prone to handing out Charizards and Hydreigons indiscriminately. :P I find this restriction to be out of place, because if I run an updatee through a year’s worth of plot and battles, I sure as hell feel entitled to give him a simple Lv 25 Poliwhirl as long as it isn’t too strong for the rest of his team. Updating and rewarding work a lot on common sense and a case-by-case approach, so some of these restrictions could very well be lifted and adventures discussed on an individual basis, rather than stifling creativity with a bunch of hard rules.


As for updater rewards, and at the risk of sounding greedy… they’re inadequate. Yes, we should (and do) update for the pleasure of updating. But anybody who has ever had to sit down in front of a laptop in their free time and type lines upon lines of text, fighting off writer’s block, pressure to deliver updates on time and the temptation of occupying that free time in a million different ways knows that frequently that “pleasure of updating” isn’t enough.
And if updates are the heart and soul of a text-based RPG, then I think compensation should be at least adequate to the game’s reality. As it is, rewarding updaters feels like an afterthought, and the fact that the May batch still hasn’t been validated attests to that. I can only quote myself here, but take my June quota as an example: I struggled to churn out 11 long updates, which consumed most of my time off work that month, and even with the leftover updates from April, I only managed to amass… 2 candies and some points. Candies have been rendered almost useless, like I said before, and it’s the equivalent of two weekly pickups at the Mart; the points would allow me, if I consistently maintained this rhythm, to pick up a Super Rare Egg Pass after… 26 months.
Now, I know a Super Rare Egg Pass is an incredible reward, and there are even better ones in there! But let’s be honest… it’s not an incentive. Not when I know that it’s impossible to keep up this pace, let alone speed it up, now that I’ve started working and rarely get a full weekend. A game that thrives on updaters should offer a little more in the way of encouragement to those who are responsible for keeping it running, and that’s the truth even if it makes me look bad for saying it. Emp was the first one to speak out, and even if I didn’t second his motion then, I do now: the rewards need revision, and not in the sense of balancing them, but outright improving the offer.
I have no clear-cut suggestion about this, it’d have to be discussed among mods and updaters alone, but I do think one thing’s misconstrued: I don’t think rapid-fire updates should be counted and rewarded as “half updates”; they should be rewarded in full unless they really aren’t acceptable in length. It’s the longer updates that should receive a bonus, because short or long, an updater had to sit down and dedicate his time to this; in no way should he get a pay cut for speeding things along. And yes, I’m a long-style updater so it inevitably looks like I’m pushing for a self-promotion, but objectively, we shouldn’t be punishing rapid-fire as much as we should be rewarding longer updates a little more. Going forth with concrete numbers is out of my comfort zone, but I will remind mods that Candies have become second-rate and stuff in the Point Shop is too expensive for the points that are currently being awarded to updaters. In fact, 5-round Trainer Battles and TCG matches being rewarded with 3 candies apiece when it takes an updater 15 updates in one month to get the same result is a glaring disparity. I’m really, really sorry if this sounds like whining, but I guarantee you things would be much quicker around Zones if we felt any inclination to update other than doing so out of the kindness of our hearts, which at the moment is how I feel (and I even take pride in updating regularly).
If we could discuss this in greater detail in the Private Forum it’d be good, I think. I don’t want to put numbers on the table right now, and not here, but I might in the near future if you decide this is worth debating.



Hidden Abilities

Spoiler: show
This was brought up by MM and it was a good catch. To me, Dream World Abilities should never be handed out in Eggs; they deserve a Zone of their own. I haven’t worked out the details, but I really think it’d be great to have a Dream World Zone (outside of Serebii), updated by regular updaters, where people could catch Pokemon with Hidden Abilities. They didn’t have to take as long as regular adventures, but I think there’d have to be some kind of prerequisite to start such an adventure; after all, people would be blatantly looking to get rare Pokemon out of it, instead of going with the flow like in regular Zones, so it shouldn’t be open to everyone all the time. If we could regulate entry in that Zone, if only to make it more special like the Dream World is, I think we could be on to something very, very fun. Of course, it’d take dedicated updaters, but with a rapid-fire style we could make some lucky Trainers very happy, I reckon.



Miscellaneous

Spoiler: show
  • Do we really need that third branch over at BMG? It seems to be more trouble than it’s worth, with only a handful of homeboarders on a site that takes ages to load; why not migrate those Profiles, along with Cascadia, over to UPN? It already has a shortage of zones, and it’d reduce maintenance to two hubs instead of three. I realize it’d have been done a long time ago if you wanted to, but the fact that you even started that Starter Egg campaign for new BMG members shows you’re committed to keeping it… This isn’t really a suggestion but more of a question: why keep BMG?
  • If you could all agree on an overarching plot for each Special Campaign from the start, maybe then the 5 mods could update simultaneously instead of just Tess and Arc, taking turns when some of you were busier than others, to help move things along quicker. Not saying you’re not doing this already, but while some of you are drowned in real life problems, maybe the others could temporarily take over if their schedule was lighter?
  • Updaters who haven’t posted a batch in over 3 months should be stripped of their status, and forced to retake the updater test to show if they’re still committed. It may sound harsh, but realistically, if a person can’t find time to sit down and type even a small batch of rapid-fire updates in 90 days, maybe it’s time to step down voluntarily anyway because real life is taking priority. It’s better for the community than leaving several updatees hanging indefinitely.



----


That came out… obnoxiously long. :/ I realize everything I said has a counter-argument and one or more reasons not to be put in motion, and that some of my suggestions simply won’t be accepted. I don’t want to offend anyone with them, and I won’t debate any of my points either: if you want to disagree with or dissect them, go ahead, but I can’t add anything to my viewpoints that I haven’t already written. These are opinions, and may well be bad opinions, but I’m okay with that; I won’t argue with anyone who has a different view.

Last edited by MarbleZone; 07-23-2013 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:43 PM   #8
Talon87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarbleZone View Post
Berry Shop
Almost nobody really cares about Berries. The reason is, people don’t battle enough to use battle-effect Berries, and there are no Contests to use the others. I understand it’s the staff’s intention to bring back Contests “eventually”, so I imagine things will change a bit, but even with the way things are now (“berries = useless”) I think they’re being given away too carelessly.

You went to the trouble of assorting Berries as Common, Rare, Super Rare and Ultra Rare. So how about we make what’s “super rare” actually live up to the name? My suggestion is, only hand out Common or Rare Berries on Wednesday giveaways (or drop the concept entirely). Make Super Rare Berries non-purchasable, like the Liechi, and only give them away via Lucky Draw prizes or some other giveaways, and only award Liechi on FB Anniversaries, or not even that often. Make people treasure those “Super Rare” berries for the day when Contests do return; I won’t suggest a rarity revision because I know absolutely nothing about Contests, but I really think the current system is too liberal and renders Berries worthless, even for collectors (what’s the challenge if everything is purchasable or gained for free except one berry?). Also, bump up the price on Common and Rare Berries a bit, say 500 and 1000 coins respectively. Like I said, I don’t know anything about Contests, but it seems to me that it’s much too easy to get the whole collection of Berries, in any number, with very little effort, meaning it’s really easy to boost Contest Stats at the moment. To me, if I was into that, I’d want it to feel like an accomplishment, but I’ll understand if the majority disagrees with me on this.

Something I’d like to see implemented, but I admit to having zero suggestions as to how, would be a way to harvest our own Berries. It could introduce the rarer Berries back into the circuit faster than by giveaways only if/after they were removed from the shop, and it would add a farming simulation component to the game which I think some people would enjoy. I’m a nutter for those so this is mostly wishful thinking, but do you think we could work something out?
I guess I'd ask in response to this -- or I guess I'd ask in general for all future rule changes -- to please not spring any shop changes on us unannounced over night.

Spoiler tagging the remainder for length. A lot of sincere advice for staff members in here though. Also relevant reading for MarbleZone and others interested in his berry proposal.

Spoiler: show
One of the reasons you never saw people spending their coins on TMs all the time was not because the items were worthless to most people. Because they weren't. They were quite valuable. The reason you never saw it was that there was no need to urgently buy something of which there was a reliable supply. Infinite in volume, always accessible. It's the same with most purchases in real life -- you don't buy things that you know you're going to some day want/need if that day isn't today and if the goods aren't likely to vanish on you if you fail to act fast. You spend responsibly and only buy what you want/need today. You don't go out and buy a spare set of tires today, and new brake pads, and a new television, and a new hair dryer, and a new bed mattress, etc. You buy some food, you pay your bills, and you save the rest. Brake pads'll be there when you need 'em. Spare tires'll be there when you need 'em. Televisions, bed mattresses, they'll all be there when it comes time for you to replace your old, worn-out ones and upgrade.

But TMs got pulled out of the CfP without any warning. And I don't think most people were pleased about that, even if many might be pleased about the overall idea of TMs being removed from the CfP and turned into harder-to-get items that are largely obtained as zone awards. I suggested in the FAQ thread a month and a half ago that TMs and the other CfP items be brought back, at least temporarily, to give people a "take what you want and get out ^^;" window of opportunity to do some last-minute shopping before the new rules permanently set in. I think that suggestion was well-received (though I'm not sure what to make of the fact that it's been a month and a half now and the shop still hasn't been edited to put the items back in temporarily ), and I'd suggest that you do something similar with berries if you're going to go with MarbleZone's suggestion to transform berries from being a plentiful item to being a scarce item.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Something else you guys'll have to figure out once and for all is just how much you want FB to be economically driven and how much you do not. You say one thing (largely how much you guys don't like the money-heavy focus players have these days) but then you do quite another (transforming TMs from plentiful to scarce, thus artificially driving up their value and making them a hot commodity for all future trades; reinstating the candy limit on trades, perhaps in a misguided attempt to make candies relevant again to the economy, only to instead have it backfire on candies [with people perceiving them as more worthless than ever before now that you can only ever put down as many as five on a single trade] while at the same time having it further promote merchant-minded thrift and bargaining as people scrabble to collect barter-worthy items with which to supplement their offers). Well that was a long parenthetical statement! ^^; But like I said outside the parentheses, I feel like once again the staff's stated desires and actions aren't lining up. It's a very mixed message you've sent us, this message of declaring with your voices "DOWN WITH MERCANTILISM! " but declaring with your actions "LONG LIVE MERCANTILISM! " So, like I say, I think you guys'll really have to sort out what sort of society you want FB to be going forward. The more you restrict what people can and cannot buy easily and cheaply, the more you create scarcity of goods; this in turn lends those goods artificial value; and this in turn drives the wheels of an economy. (Or can drive the wheels of an economy, at any rate.) The more you make things readily and cheaply available, the more you may risk alienating players who value hard work, true, but the more you will at the very least kill the economic focus so many players are said to have in FB currently. Why? Because there's really no reason to be economically-minded when anything you could ever want is readily and cheaply available. But so long as there are things which aren't, you're going to have the seeds for an economy. Humans are, by their very nature, economical creatures. No one's ever going to want to trade a Level 72 Darmanitan for a Level 5 Shinx if the Darmanitan took 3 years and a lot of hard work to get while the Shinx took only one week. It doesn't matter that Shinx is a top want of theirs and that they've gotten bored with Darmanitan. There's something fundamentally perceptibly "unfair" about such a trade, and most people would just as soon not trade at all than trade and get such a short end of the stick. I'm not saying that you have to (or even that you should necessarily) make FB a game where Level 72 Darmanitans are as easily had as Level 5 Shinxes. And I'm not saying that it's never happened before. (Balmund's Kingdra trade last year comes to mind.) I'm simply saying that so long as there is any difference between how easily two items are acquired, you're going to have innate "value" perceived by human beings in the harder-to-get item, value which will factor in to trade negotiations, etc.

Long story short, if you don't want berries to become yet another commodity people squabble over to try and sweeten their trades and if you don't want to see people hoarding berries because of how hard they've become to get, then you should probably keep things the way they currently are. Right now, berries are like bread at the supermarket: cheap, plentiful, and no one's going to be trading you anything of value in exchange for a loaf of them. While you can certainly make it so that bread is suddenly more hard to come by, that's not going to decrease its value any, not unless you go way, way over the insanity hump and make it like $500,000 per loaf of bread (at which point 99.9999% of people say "I'll just eat rice then " lol). This brings us finally to ...

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Contests. This is another case of soul searching for you guys on the staff. 'Cause the way I see it, berries and Contests are pretty much tied at the hip. If you kill people's interest in one, you kill their interest in the other and vice versa. So ...

If you're sad that berries are worthless right now, and if you know Contests aren't likely to come back any time soon if ever: then you're free to make berries artificially scarce. (Whether you should or not is a separate matter completely.)

If you're excited to bring Contests back, and if you really want them to come back soon (say before year's end), and if you want the whole community excited for them and not just the old guard: then you've gotta keep berries cheap and plentiful. You've just gotta. Making berries harder to come by and/or more expensive is going to disrupt (and possibly devastate) any attempts you may have to bring back contests. Why? Because:
  • you can't expect regular members to get excited cheering for strangers on the Internet. ^_^; People want to participate themselves. And if they can't (because you've priced them out of it by making berries too rare and/or expensive to purchase), then they just won't care about Contests period.
  • for the people who can participate in Contests to get excited, it has to feel like it's really the big event everyone's been waiting for. A community-wide affair with lots of fanfare and memories and excitement and everything! It just won't be the same if it's them plus four or five other veteran members who fed gobs of berries to their teams over the past few years.
  • a lot of people haven't fed berries because to do so you have to declare a nature first. And these people (self included) haven't declared a nature because it'd run counter to their RP desires to hastily declare one now and then be locked into it. While some individuals might stick to their RP guns and sit a Contest revival out due to the nature-locking rules, I imagine that a number of people would leap at the chance to enter a Contest and would thus give a nature to their Pokémon after all. But if you've already taken away the berries and made them impossible to get, then this nature declaration stuff is too little too late. Why bother then? They wouldn't. But they might have had you left the berries out for them, cheap and plentiful.
If you want to bring Contests back and you know it's not just a pipe dream, then I'd say you should avoid making berries rare at all costs. On the other hand, if you ask yourselves honestly "Are we going to bring back Contests any time soon?" and the answer is "No, probably not," then I'd say that you're cleared for takeoff if you want to fiddle with berry scarcity. (I still wouldn't advise it, for all the economic reasons mentioned previously. ^^; But I'm just saying you're cleared for takeoff as far as Contests would be concerned.)
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:10 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kairne View Post
I wanted to suggest a way to keep some TMs in a bit of circulation, since they have been cut out of the CfP. I was thinking about a type of assortment pack available to buy, maybe once per month, or every two months, gauged either on a by-member basis (30 days must pass before one may pick another up) or a small window of time (such as the first of the month only, or the second Friday, etc). The idea is an assortment pack of about 7 TMs, all of them randomly chosen, purchasable for about 25,000-30,000. It would include 3 random Common TMs (ones that were priced up to 2,500 Coins when they were in CfP), 2 random Uncommon TMs (ones that were priced from 3,000 to 7,500 Coins when in the shop), 1 random Rare TM (8,000-9,500 Coins) with a 1 in 5 chance of it being a random Super Rare TM (The old 10,000 Coin ones), and then one RNG'd from the entire list. This would allow people to get some TMs so the Market isn't dry for them, but cutting down supply and making people work for them (Coins will have to be saved up). The exact value and number is just a basic suggestion, of course.
Haven't had the chance to actually get it out there yet, but we've taken all of the points into consideration about the Casino and Coins for Prizes and made a compromise, merging the two into one. Some TM's and the evolution items have been returned, the Pokémon will no longer rotate as that was apparently a major issue, a couple of old games have been returned, and it'll go into play again very soon. We can trial it for a few months then reassess to see whether or not it's working out. So you'll still be able to purchase TM's, and those you can't can be left for special events and zone rewards. They've always been available in zones, but now that you can't buy them perhaps they'll be used a little more as adventure rewards. I'm not sure about creating assorted packs of varying rarities as it's only following along the same guidelines as the rotating Pokémon and rarity issues that have come up which caused quite an uproar so is best not repeated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarbleZone View Post
First of all, I didn’t talk this over with anybody; from an outside perspective, some of these may be really terrible ideas, but I’ll take the risk :P Also, if any of these are already being worked over by the staff, sorry. Finally, I’m sorry if some of these points come across as “passive aggressive”, which is something I remember the staff complaining about recently. I really don’t mean to come off like that, but I wasn’t sure how to word some of these any other way.

FB Shops
This is a suggestions thread so mine to you will be to try to address only a couple of things at a time if you want a faster response. The longer you make your post the longer it'll take to reply to, and the greater are the chances we'll need to discuss something before replying. Since it is so long these answers are my opinions only but that doesn't mean I'm not open to discussion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarbleZone View Post
Daycare Centre
I’ll intentionally start off on the wrong foot here with a “selfish” proposition. FB changed drastically since October last year; the Unlimited Slots rule changed pretty much everything and was a huge success. But the result of it was, naturally, everyone ends up with many underlevelled Pokemon. Most people’s teams are made up of a bunch of Lv 1’s that no player can reasonably raise at a consistent pace during their “FB lifetime”. My proposition is entirely one-sided and involves you giving us something with no effort from our part, and I know you said you’d ignore those, but I think it’d be an improvement for the current landscape: Make the Daycare Center work like the current Beauty Salon: a half-week stay gives a Pokemon 1 Level, and a full week 2 Levels.
I realize what I’m asking, but I hope you also realize that we have a glaring lack of alternatives: in the games, you can strengthen a Lv 1 newborn in no time by grinding through countless battles and/or attaching Exp Share or Lucky Egg to speed things up. In FB there is no reliable method of raising our Pokemon outside of a very restrictive Daycare system, and it’d be utopian to suggest a way to simulate wild battles at an acceptable pace; it’d always involve a dedicated updater and we all know how that always turns out.
So, at the risk of sounding spoiled, my suggestion seems like a decent alternative. It’s not reasonable to expect someone to evolve their whole 20-Pokemon team during their stay in FB, but why shouldn’t he be able to? Because staff doesn’t want to make things “too easy”? This is a game at its core, where people are encouraged to RP as their favourites , but if level-up spots aren’t available (and I can’t think of a reliable way to have them), I really think the Daycare should offer more to adapt to this new reality. It’d render Daycare passes obsolete, or they’d have to be tweaked as well, but that’s a minor concern. It’s not about handing us things for free, it’s about keeping up with a reality that has changed for the better. Back when teams were restricted to 6 or 9 Pokemon for several years, it worked. Right now, I don’t think it does. I know some purists/veterans will argue that it’s asking too much and that they’ve raised their Pokemon the hard way, and heck, so did I, but people shouldn’t be discouraged from taking advantage of the Unlimited rule by the statistical impossibility that is raising their full team in a reasonable amount of time.
Realistically people aren't going to level up a team of 20 Lv.1's at a time anyway. They'll rotate. I'm personally raising several of my younger ones until they have space enough to partake in a beginner trainer battle or two before I'll take them to the next step. Then I'll start working on my next batch. In the meantime, the younger ones can be Egg/MT/HM trained until I'm ready to use them effectively and begin the level up process. Everyone's system will be different.

The most I'd be willing to adhere to here is to allow a third Pokémon to be dropped off per week. Nothing more.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MarbleZone View Post
Beauty Salon
Picking up where I left off, I also have some issues with the Beauty Salon right now, but these are the complete opposite of the Daycare Centre: it moves way too fast. Two suggestions here: one, drop the “Beauty Points” concept entirely, changing it to Friendship, and make Beauty evolutions work with a maxed Beauty Contest Stat; two, change the Friendship gain from 2 points per week to 1 point every two weeks. Why? Because how can I justify a newborn Pokemon being willing to die for me after 5 weeks of being in the Salon, 90% of the time without a single line of RP to back it up? Friendship is gained too fast with too little effort, when it should be one of the hardest things to earn: it requires time and patience for a Trainer and his Pokemon to bond; as it is right now, we can have almost insta-Blissey, insta-Espeon, even insta-Lucario and I am guilty of this last one. But objectively it’s wrong and way too easy in my eyes now, building Friendship should be a much slower process.
I happen to agree that it needs changing and is one of the points up for discussion, but I'd personally be happier seeing you link us to a few RP posts where you're positively interacting with your Pokémon before it can gain 1 point. Link to a Trainer Battle the Pokémon has won to receive another. This shop is about raising its friendship level so it makes sense that you need to earn their affection. Popping them into a shop to force them to love you more doesn't make any sense at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarbleZone View Post
Egg House
This was brought up by Rakurai recently, and I agree: looking at the current type pool, there’s no reason why Mystery Eggs should only come around every two months. If you want to keep them relatively rarer, I’d say either swap them around with Enigma Eggs, making it a Mystery Egg per month and Enigma every two months (making those Fossils even harder to get, which might not be ideal), or really just make both of them available every month. I wouldn’t even be opposed to making Mystery a regular egg group to be picked up every two weeks, but I get why you’d be against that.
I did suggest removing the restriction on both eggs. I was outvoted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarbleZone View Post
Adoption Centre
The Adoption Center used to thrive back when I joined, probably because of the PC restrictions at the time. A lot of Pokemon weren’t being taken up when offered, wich isn’t really the case right now; everyone can afford to give a Pokemon shelter, if only because they “don’t like” seeing them being dropped off. I’m not saying it’s a good thing to have a bunch of Pokemon in the AC, but the Shop is kinda pointless right now if the only ones that ever land there are the odd Shard Quest Pokemon every month or so. A lot of the problems were already worked out by the staff, like disallowing requests and such, but how about we make it so that, if a Pokemon is hatched at the Egg House but isn’t picked up after 3 days, it’s forfeit and staff put it up for adoption? If mods are expected to produce a hatchling within 24 hours of a request, giving the player 72 hours to pick it up is more than reasonable (with some leeway if the player is unable to but warns beforehand).
I know there was a similar system in place up until recently, but I don’t think the ‘mon went to the AC, did it? If it did, ignore this whole topic. :P If it didn’t, it’s something to think about. It’s not a problem that needs fixing, really, but a suggestion to keep the shop a little more lively; almost nobody forgets to pick up their hatches anyway, so it’s not like it’d change much.
It doesn't need to be an overly active shop. In fact, it shouldn't be. It's sad seeing Pokémon dropped off there. In fact, one of my own came as a result of seeing her being repeatedly adopted and then abandoned again by different trainers. I felt bad for her and adopted her myself though she's not the kind of Pokémon I'd normally raise but I've grown to love her. If pickup restrictions are returned to the Egg House then we can quite easily drop unclaimed hatchlings off here, but if not then it continues to serve its purpose however small that is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarbleZone View Post
Coins for Prizes
[spoiler]I could go on forever about this shop. :P I’ve posted a price revision suggestion in the Private Forum, and I know prices are being revised at the moment, but I’ll copy/paste it here. In hindsight, some of these suggestions aren’t great, and they don’t cover all the TMs, but it’s a start:

“[10,000 coins] Explosion, Giga Impact, Hyper Beam
[ 9,500 coins] Fissure, Horn Drill
[ 9,000 coins] Overheat, Self Destruct
[ 8,500 coins] Blizzard, Fire Blast, Focus Blast, Thunder
[ 8,000 coins] Focus Punch, Mega Kick, Sky Attack
[ 7,500 coins] Acrobatics, Double-Edge, Solarbeam
[ 7,000 coins] Dynamicpunch, Earthquake, Egg Bomb, Iron Tail, Sludge Wave, Stone Edge, Zap Cannon
[ 6,500 coins] Body Slam, Brine, Dark Pulse, Drain Punch, Dragon Claw, Dragon Pulse, Flamethrower, Frost Breath, Frustration, Giga Drain, Gyro Ball, Ice Beam, Mega Punch, Psychic, Return, Scald, Shadow Ball, Sludge Bomb, Thunderbolt, Venoshock, Wild Charge
[ 6,000 coins] Avalanche, Brick Break, Dig, Dream Eater, Energy Ball, Fire Punch, Flash Cannon, Grass Knot, Ice Punch, Payback, Poison Jab, Retaliate, Rock Slide, Shadow Claw, Submission, Thunderpunch, Tri Attack, X-Scissor
[ 5,000 coins] Bulldoze, Dragon Tail, Façade, Headbutt, Low Sweep, Psyshock, Razor Wind, Secret Power, Skull Bash, Sky Drop, Smack Down, Snarl, Steel Wing, U-Turn, Volt Switch
[ 4,000 coins] Aerial Ace, Bubblebeam, Charge Beam, Dragonbreath, Echoed Voice, Flame Charge, Pluck, Round, Seismic Toss, Shockwave, Silver Wind, Water Pulse
[ 3,500 coins] Bullet Seed, Dragon Rage, Hidden Power, Icy Wind, Metronome, Natural Gift, Psywave, Rock Smash, Rock Tomb, Sleep Talk, Struggle Bug, Swift
[ 3,000 coins] False Swipe, Fling, Mega Drain, Nightmare, Rollout, Thief, Water Gun
[ 2,000 coins] Incinerate, Mud Slap, Pay Day
[ 1,000 coins] Fury Cutter, Rage, Snore

I might have missed a couple. With the current Base Power + added effects, since several changed in Gen V, I feel some TMs were going for the wrong price. I don't think there's any reason a Flash Cannon should ever be more expensive than an Ice Beam just because a 70 BP attack is the best TM Steel Types get. It's a suggestion in case you ever consider reviewing prices. Also, I didn't touch "defensive" or stat TMs, even if some don't make a lot of sense either. (why is Swords Dance cheaper than Rock Polish?)
Also, since accuracy rarely applies in FB, I figured an attack like Mega Kick would almost always be superior to Double Edge, hence the suggested difference in price. “


That was my suggestion 4 months ago, and now I’d like to add some more to this: evolution items. Person A, owning a Dusclops, has to pay 30k coins to have a Dusknoir, while Person B, owning a Kirlia, only has to pay 4k (was it? I forget) to have a Gallade. Why this disparity? It makes very little sense for some evos to cost almost 8 times as much as others. It also doesn’t make sense that Dawn and Dusk Stones are dirt-cheap while you have to move mountains and wait months for the RNGods to produce what you need at the Egg House for a Fire Stone, and pray on top of it that the hatcher trades it over. Some evolution items are too expensive, some are way too cheap, and it’s hard to find a reason for it. My suggestion is to set the price of all evolution items at, say, 20k coins. You’ll still need an investment to own that illusive last form, but you don’t have to give up a kidney for a Magmortar. You can even set it at 30k if you want, the important thing is that item prices are evened out, especially considering how hard it is to get those that aren’t for sale.

Also, CfP Pokemon. We’ve been voicing opinions on this ever since the rotations started, so here’s my opinion on the subject again: Super Rares are badly overpriced. I can accept a guaranteed Rare of unlimited availability and gender choice to be set at 100k, but 400k for a Super is too much. My suggestion: bump Ultra Rares up to 500k (Ultras in general are worth it, not just Porygon) and knock down Supers to 250k-300k coins. This has been intensely debated and you also made your opinions clear on the matter, so I’ll stop here, but I had to get this out there for your consideration again. Something that also makes sense to me is to make CfP Pokemon rotate out every two months instead of every month. It’s exceedingly hard to make enough money in FB to meet these CfP standards, so prolonging each batch’s stay will hopefully give people time to gather enough coins for that one big want – because once it rotates out, the odds of ever seeing it again in your FB lifetime are very, very slim.

Finally, a personal gripe. When I joined Fizzy Bubbles, and I’ve said this before, one of the things I found most original was the use of Rare Candies as currency. It was, and is, brilliant. I’m saddened by the fact that they have become almost useless as means of payment and completely taken a backseat to coins in almost every aspect. I’d like to propose that items and/or Pokemon from the CfP be purchasable with both coins and candies, whichever ratio you consider appropriate (like Super Rare CfP ‘mon costing 300k coins OR 50 candies, for example). You can rename the shop “Cash for Prizes” or whatever else to reflect this, but it’d give Candies a chance to shine again – as it is, they only serve to level up Pokemon (in itself useless except for evolving) and pay for Move Tutor services.
I've already addressed the CfP's issue above. The Casino/CfP's merger is basically reverting it back to what it was before Coins for Prizes was created. Hopefully the price issues will be null and void when the thread is posted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarbleZone View Post
Berry Shop
Almost nobody really cares about Berries. The reason is, people don’t battle enough to use battle-effect Berries, and there are no Contests to use the others. I understand it’s the staff’s intention to bring back Contests “eventually”, so I imagine things will change a bit, but even with the way things are now (“berries = useless”) I think they’re being given away too carelessly.
You went to the trouble of assorting Berries as Common, Rare, Super Rare and Ultra Rare. So how about we make what’s “super rare” actually live up to the name? My suggestion is, only hand out Common or Rare Berries on Wednesday giveaways (or drop the concept entirely). Make Super Rare Berries non-purchasable, like the Liechi, and only give them away via Lucky Draw prizes or some other giveaways, and only award Liechi on FB Anniversaries, or not even that often. Make people treasure those “Super Rare” berries for the day when Contests do return; I won’t suggest a rarity revision because I know absolutely nothing about Contests, but I really think the current system is too liberal and renders Berries worthless, even for collectors (what’s the challenge if everything is purchasable or gained for free except one berry?). Also, bump up the price on Common and Rare Berries a bit, say 500 and 1000 coins respectively. Like I said, I don’t know anything about Contests, but it seems to me that it’s much too easy to get the whole collection of Berries, in any number, with very little effort, meaning it’s really easy to boost Contest Stats at the moment. To me, if I was into that, I’d want it to feel like an accomplishment, but I’ll understand if the majority disagrees with me on this.

Something I’d like to see implemented, but I admit to having zero suggestions as to how, would be a way to harvest our own Berries. It could introduce the rarer Berries back into the circuit faster than by giveaways only if/after they were removed from the shop, and it would add a farming simulation component to the game which I think some people would enjoy. I’m a nutter for those so this is mostly wishful thinking, but do you think we could work something out?
Another shop with revamp potential that is up for discussion. I'd like to see Berries, Pokéblocks, and Poffins expire when not used. It makes sense, after all. You can't have strawberries and cake sitting around at home without spoiling so why would they here? I don't even have an issue with removing the giveaway berry. Like you said they're not that popular, and they're cheap as dirt. I've often considered a harvesting method (again with spoilage taken into consideration), so come to me with a workable system and I'll look it over.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarbleZone View Post
Breeding Centre
[spoiler]Terribly underutilized, and this tendency will continue to exist all the more nowadays when nobody is remotely close to getting new Lv 100s. Of course a handful will, and those might vehemently disagree, but I think it’s time we allow less uber beings to use their genitals. Back when PC slots existed, getting our Pokemon to Lv 50 was the goal to unlocking them, and the magical number we always aimed for and that made us hoard all those Candies. Keeping the minimum level for breeding at 100 is simply impractical nowadays no matter how long the shop is open (not to mention how little RP sense it makes, but I understand there needs to be a limit), so why don’t we lower the breeding level to 50? It’s a target level that most people were already used to aiming for, only for different reasons, and it actually makes the shop useful other than seeing one post per year by the occasional veteran who’s been around long enough to breed two of his gods. Breeding itself is a mechanic with tons of RP potential, severely hampered by impossibly-high conditions, so I really think this is worth a look. People argued when slots were gone that the incentive to raise a ‘mon to 100 was all but gone; with this, it’d be completely gone; but to be fair, the only reason one should get Lv 100s in the first place is for bragging rights, or for some kind of elite Tournament/event for the “best of the best”; but not as a means to reproduce! :P And although I haven’t talked about it yet, if there was any way to reintroduce Hidden Abilities to FB, maybe we could have a held Everstone guaranteeing an offspring with a Hidden Ability.
Already under revision, including lowering the breeding level. I think it was Balmund who initially suggested it, I can't remember, but it was that post that had me reconsidering it. I also intend for Hidden Abilities to be able to breed and is a part of the revamp.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarbleZone View Post
Training Centre
[spoiler]There’s something that has always irked me: Pokemon who learn Fly, Surf and Waterfall know them from the start. Why? Fly and Surf don’t mean the ability to fly or swim, they mean the ability to carry someone while flying or swimming! A newborn shouldn’t be able to do that, nor climb a waterfall… right? I suggest that Fly, Surf and Waterfall should have to be taught like any other HM move.
I also disagree with this service being free. In the games, you always have to overcome some kind of obstacle or progress enough in the main storyline to earn these special moves. At the very least, I should have to pay to have my Pokemon learn them in FB. Right now, I have a Bibarel who can pretty much overcome any kind of terrain obstacle that an updater might throw my way, while simultaneously knowing a bunch of powerful STAB moves, simply because I dropped him off for a month in a shop without a care in the world. I’m grateful, it’s super useful, but it’s also wrong. :P I think HMs should cost 1 Candy each to be taught, like EMs and MTs in the Move Tutor shop.
I agree and have no problem with this whatsoever. Can't say others will share that opinion so let's see what happens shall we?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarbleZone View Post
Move Tutor
[spoiler]It’s no secret this is my favourite shop, even more than the Egg House. I love most of its services and wouldn’t touch them one bit, except for two details. First, and this applies to other shops as well: We should drop the Serebii Pokedex in favour of the Veekun Pokedex for moveset confirmation. The Serebii dex is a mess, especially Gen I&II, not to mention separate links for separate Gens. Veekun condenses all of them into one, meaning the link for any one Pokemon is always the same. Easier for everyone.
Also, we all know that the Pledges suck. Sure they’re special for being Starter-only moves and all that, but they’re close to useless. So I suggest cutting the price for learning Pledge moves from 3 Heart Scales to 1 while keeping the original price for the ultimate moves.
Something we agree on. It's also my favourite shop ^^. It's a shame it's so underutilised.
We've already agreed to change the Pokédex, we're just waiting on final input regarding which one we'll go with.
I'm not going to give an opinion on Pledges at this stage. We'll confer.



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Originally Posted by MarbleZone View Post
Adventure Rewards and Updater Rewards

This might have been better off posted in the Private Board, but at the same time it belongs here more than anywhere else.

At the moment, updaters aren’t allowed to award their players with (among many other restrictions) evolved Pokemon, and this is a big problem for me. Either way it’s common courtesy to consult staff before deciding on an end-of-story reward, so we’re subjected to approval even after we’ve shaped an entire story around a prize that might not even be allowed. But this restriction in particular means I will never be able to base an adventure around a Poliwhirl, for example, which by itself puts a hamper on creativity. I have to work the plot around a Poliwag at best, then have my updatee toil for at least a whole calendar year (because let’s face it, how many adventures outside the AR last less than that?), while he watches dozens of Poliwag hatch in the Egg House, until he can finally capture the… completely unremarkable Water-Type. It bugs me, and it always has, because it’s treating updaters like dangerous people who are prone to handing out Charizards and Hydreigons indiscriminately. :P I find this restriction to be out of place, because if I run an updatee through a year’s worth of plot and battles, I sure as hell feel entitled to give him a simple Lv 25 Poliwhirl as long as it isn’t too strong for the rest of his team. Updating and rewarding work a lot on common sense and a case-by-case approach, so some of these restrictions could very well be lifted and adventures discussed on an individual basis, rather than stifling creativity with a bunch of hard rules.


As for updater rewards, and at the risk of sounding greedy… they’re inadequate. Yes, we should (and do) update for the pleasure of updating. But anybody who has ever had to sit down in front of a laptop in their free time and type lines upon lines of text, fighting off writer’s block, pressure to deliver updates on time and the temptation of occupying that free time in a million different ways knows that frequently that “pleasure of updating” isn’t enough.
And if updates are the heart and soul of a text-based RPG, then I think compensation should be at least adequate to the game’s reality. As it is, rewarding updaters feels like an afterthought, and the fact that the May batch still hasn’t been validated attests to that. I can only quote myself here, but take my June quota as an example: I struggled to churn out 11 long updates, which consumed most of my time off work that month, and even with the leftover updates from April, I only managed to amass… 2 candies and some points. Candies have been rendered almost useless, like I said before, and it’s the equivalent of two weekly pickups at the Mart; the points would allow me, if I consistently maintained this rhythm, to pick up a Super Rare Egg Pass after… 26 months.
Now, I know a Super Rare Egg Pass is an incredible reward, and there are even better ones in there! But let’s be honest… it’s not an incentive. Not when I know that it’s impossible to keep up this pace, let alone speed it up, now that I’ve started working and rarely get a full weekend. A game that thrives on updaters should offer a little more in the way of encouragement to those who are responsible for keeping it running, and that’s the truth even if it makes me look bad for saying it. Emp was the first one to speak out, and even if I didn’t second his motion then, I do now: the rewards need revision, and not in the sense of balancing them, but outright improving the offer.
I have no clear-cut suggestion about this, it’d have to be discussed among mods and updaters alone, but I do think one thing’s misconstrued: I don’t think rapid-fire updates should be counted and rewarded as “half updates”; they should be rewarded in full unless they really aren’t acceptable in length. It’s the longer updates that should receive a bonus, because short or long, an updater had to sit down and dedicate his time to this; in no way should he get a pay cut for speeding things along. And yes, I’m a long-style updater so it inevitably looks like I’m pushing for a self-promotion, but objectively, we shouldn’t be punishing rapid-fire as much as we should be rewarding longer updates a little more. Going forth with concrete numbers is out of my comfort zone, but I will remind mods that Candies have become second-rate and stuff in the Point Shop is too expensive for the points that are currently being awarded to updaters. In fact, 5-round Trainer Battles and TCG matches being rewarded with 3 candies apiece when it takes an updater 15 updates in one month to get the same result is a glaring disparity. I’m really, really sorry if this sounds like whining, but I guarantee you things would be much quicker around Zones if we felt any inclination to update other than doing so out of the kindness of our hearts, which at the moment is how I feel (and I even take pride in updating regularly).
If we could discuss this in greater detail in the Private Forum it’d be good, I think. I don’t want to put numbers on the table right now, and not here, but I might in the near future if you decide this is worth debating.
Considering the rules of the private boards I have a real problem with the term even being used outside of them.

First of all I really don't see the problem with unevolved Pokémon. This subject often comes up with new members so has been discussed amongst many people many times over and although at first the rule seems a little strange considering it doesn't follow the norm of the games, I'm not alone in feeling it's actually a good concept to have. I found it strange in the beginning, but now don't even think twice about it until it's brought up. Tell me, though, during the course of your year long adventure what else is your updatee being rewarded with? Adventures have stages, and rewards don't need to wait until the final day to be awarded. Various items can be obtained along the way, other wild Pokémon can even be caught, I once had an updatee go through a year long adventure, maybe even a little longer, surrounding an egg whose hatchling she couldn't keep but it was the adventure itself that was the prize. The memories, the accomplishment, the uniqueness of the entire experience. I have to admit it was one of my better ones, but that's beside the point. It's not like your updatee isn't going unrewarded in some way or another and many people actually do prefer catching base forms because then they're able to raise them themselves rather than having a Pokémon already a quarter of the way to the Lv.100 mark. That said, I can see your point and don't totally disagree with it either. I just don't think it's advisable to be making exceptions for one case and not others as it opens a whole new can of worms. This rule has been in effect for longer than I've been around, and I've been here ten years. It's unlikely to change anytime soon.

Also, while we're on the topic of adventure rewards. You're not required to ask permission, even as a courtesy. The Adventures and Prizes thread is only there for those who are struggling for ideas on how to reward their updatee, are not sure if something is allowed, or are having trouble coming up with ideas. Normally an updator has a pretty clear idea in their mind regarding where a story is going and how it will be awarded so they don't need to post. Clearly if you're wanting to give out a Lv.25 Poliwhirl you should ask, because it's not allowed, and the answer will undoubtedly be no because it's unwise to be making exceptions to rules, so perhaps you'll be advised to instead base your story around a Poliwag dreaming to be a Poliwhirl who is struggling with the issue somehow (a couple of ways in which to do this will be suggested or we'll leave it to you to use your creative flair), and you'll also be advised it may be an idea to base it off another Pokémon if using Poliwag is out of the question. It doesn't make sense to base a years long adventure on a Pokémon you know isn't allowed to be awarded even if you might possibly be thinking you can have the rule changed in the meantime to suit your end goal.

I'm not going to get into the whole updator rewards discussion now. Not only have we already stated it's being revised we've also made it clear it'll be a fairer rewards system made on word count and not rapid-fire versus normal. I've been updating since very nearly day one. I had a lot of spare time on my hands back in the day and I tried updating many different ways. The time I spend spitting out three short updates could easily have written one longer update. Rapid-fire does move zones along faster and to a point I'm in favour of seeing the zones move in this direction, but there is a line between rapid-fire and unacceptable, both of which we've seen in recent times. I don't believe rapid fire updators deserve more praise or rewards than someone who takes a little longer to write a more detailed updates, so where is the harm in basing them off word count? If Updator A writes a 300 word update, and updator B writes three 100-word updates, they're receiving the same reward. Rapid fire updates can still be of decent quality despite their length, but when the quality suffers that's when we're going to have issues. Referee rewards will follow the same guidelines although TCG refs may need to be tweaked slightly due to the nature of the reffings. Whatever the outcome nobody will come off better or worse than the next. You'll get out of it what you put in.


Unfortunately I don't have time to address the rest right now. I need to pick Samantha up from daycare and Arn from work. If I don't get to it later I'm sure somebody else can.
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Old 07-24-2013, 07:00 AM   #10
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On the topic of berries and treats and a spoilage date: I have nothing against this, but I'd also like to ask that if this comes into effect, we'll be able to either A) drop off two Pokémon at the PokéSpa every week, or B) have the PokéSpa open so that one treat-usage takes 3-4 days, making you able to drop off one Pokémon to the Spa with a treat twice a week or two Pokémon on the same week on different days.

This could be modified to take into account the "value" of the treat. At the moment, you can drop off one Pokémon per week along with one treat. I might be alone with this opinion, but isn't it a little odd that you drop off a Pokémon to gain, say, +5 to Cute Stats, for an entire week? And with the possibilities of the treats we can make at the Treat Shop, +5 and +10 are among the most common treats (as it should be). But at the same time, there are blocks that give a +20 or more to one or more Stats - in the same week it takes for another Pokémon to gain +5 to one Stat. It'll make even less sense if the spoilage period comes into effect: how are you supposed to work with a spoilage time effectively when you have so many +5 treats but only so much time to get them all used, in addition to it taking a week to use one treat?

We could balance this out by allowing two drop-offs a week, or perhaps establishing a system where it takes less time to "use" a treat the less value it has. For example, feeding a +5 treat could take 2-3 days, while a +10 could take 4-5, +15 a week etc. (Just an example, this is open to discussion).

This would make more logical sense and give a bit more lenience in case a spoilage period for treats and berries comes into effect. It'd also encourage people to use their berries for treats when there aren't many battle-opportunities to use them for, instead of letting them rot in the inventory because you manage to miss the one time a week you can make treats and/or use them on your Pokémon's Stats.
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:42 AM   #11
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Not a fan of berry spoilage for a very simple reason: battle-intended berries were designed by GameFreak with the thought in mind that they'd never spoil. What this means is, Salac Berries, Liechi Berries, Yache Berries, Lum Berries, and more like them are very valuable in the games (and this is reflected here in FB) but would become utterly worthless if you tried to make them perishables with a 1-month, 6-month, even a 1-year use-by date. Trainer Battles don't move fast enough to jive with this idea, zone battles even less so.

If you want to see more people using berries as hold items in zones and trainer battles, here's what I would suggest:
  • no expiration dates
  • make the useful ones more readily available, not less
  • perhaps institute a rule (either as an individual updator, for an entire zone, or for all zones) that most hold items which clearly outdo berries are, just like their berry counterparts, good for one use only per {~}. The {~} shouldn't be "ever" as that'd ruin FB's greatest items. ^^; It should be more along the lines of {per zone adventure} or {per IRL passage of n months} or something. Personally, I'm not keen on this idea since I believe part of what makes the best FB hold items so good is their infinite usability, but it's something to consider if you're that sad to see no one using berries in zones.
  • in trainer battles, perhaps make it so that if you're choosing to hold a berry for your hold item then you get to bring up to two berries. (Should probably stipulate that they must be different, but I dunno, maybe allowing someone to double up would be fair. See next.) FB is not the video games, in a lot of ways; and one of those ways is its armada of broken awesome custom hold items. While these items are indeed awesome, they also ensure that nobody's ever going to want to use berries in battles over them. But you might very well balance the playing field by allowing berry users to bring two berries. It might be considered to even the playing field with respect to perma-items like Choice Bands or Bunny Bonnets or what have you.
I don't think making berries perishable is a good idea, but if you're going to do it, I think you've got to at least spare the battle-intended berries. You can go after the Pokéblock-intended berries all you like, I suppose, but the battle-intended ones are going to wind up even more worthless if you limit their longevity.
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Old 07-24-2013, 12:43 PM   #12
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Quick question regarding implementation of payment for the Training Centre: Will free Passes then become available at all, and/or MT Passes be applicable as well? *shot*

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Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Not a fan of berry spoilage for a very simple reason: battle-intended berries were designed by GameFreak with the thought in mind that they'd never spoil. What this means is, Salac Berries, Liechi Berries, Yache Berries, Lum Berries, and more like them are very valuable in the games (and this is reflected here in FB) but would become utterly worthless if you tried to make them perishables with a 1-month, 6-month, even a 1-year use-by date. Trainer Battles don't move fast enough to jive with this idea, zone battles even less so.

If you want to see more people using berries as hold items in zones and trainer battles, here's what I would suggest:
  • no expiration dates
  • make the useful ones more readily available, not less
  • perhaps institute a rule (either as an individual updator, for an entire zone, or for all zones) that most hold items which clearly outdo berries are, just like their berry counterparts, good for one use only per {~}. The {~} shouldn't be "ever" as that'd ruin FB's greatest items. ^^; It should be more along the lines of {per zone adventure} or {per IRL passage of n months} or something. Personally, I'm not keen on this idea since I believe part of what makes the best FB hold items so good is their infinite usability, but it's something to consider if you're that sad to see no one using berries in zones.
  • in trainer battles, perhaps make it so that if you're choosing to hold a berry for your hold item then you get to bring up to two berries. (Should probably stipulate that they must be different, but I dunno, maybe allowing someone to double up would be fair. See next.) FB is not the video games, in a lot of ways; and one of those ways is its armada of broken awesome custom hold items. While these items are indeed awesome, they also ensure that nobody's ever going to want to use berries in battles over them. But you might very well balance the playing field by allowing berry users to bring two berries. It might be considered to even the playing field with respect to perma-items like Choice Bands or Bunny Bonnets or what have you.
I don't think making berries perishable is a good idea, but if you're going to do it, I think you've got to at least spare the battle-intended berries. You can go after the Pokéblock-intended berries all you like, I suppose, but the battle-intended ones are going to wind up even more worthless if you limit their longevity.
Alternatively, Berries declared at the start of a match simply don't spoil as it's considered to be set in a certain period of time. *shrug* Just a suggestion.
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Old 07-24-2013, 01:15 PM   #13
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Alternatively, Berries declared at the start of a match simply don't spoil as it's considered to be set in a certain period of time. *shrug* Just a suggestion.
No, that doesn't really help anything. Not unless you can declare the moment you receive a berry "I'M LOCKING THIS IN TO A TRAINER BATTLE IN THE FAR OFF FUTURE!" or something. I'll give an example to illustrate:
Say the staff decides to make berries have expiration dates of 3 months after you receive them.

Say you get a Petaya Berry during FB's Christmas 2013 events. Specifically, say you pick it up on December 28, 2013. It now has an expiration date verified by the staff of (say) March 27, 2014.

You get in line for a trainer battle on December 28, 2013 intending to put this berry to good use.

Your trainer battle isn't picked up by a referee until April 4, 2014.

Congrats: your Petaya Berry's expired.
Suggesting "Well then, get in line ahead of time!" isn't really a healthy solution for the Trainer Battle section. In fact, we already have way, way too many members taking advantage of the Trainer Battle forum's "limit of two battles at a time per member but no limit on how many times you can be in line at once" rules. (This is honestly my #1 pet peeve with an FB rule right now and, if the Trainer Battle section hadn't sadly ground to a halt, it would've been the #1 thing I'd have wanted to bring up with this whole discussion about overhauling rules in FB. It really, really disgusts me how many people have abused the limit-of-two-battles-at-a-time policy and are currently in line five, six, seven, ten times, making it impossible for anyone who got in line today to have a trainer battle before 2014.) But you'd pretty much have to always be in line (and thus always be being picked up for new battles when just-recently-concluded battles end) if you wanted to make sure that you were never in danger of a battle-only berry going to waste.
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Old 07-24-2013, 02:51 PM   #14
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I actually do have a few more suggestions that have been stewing in my mind for some time. And no, they are not as handout-y as my Hidden Egg suggestion was (admittedly, I probably could have come up with a better idea than what amounts to a variety of Enigma Egg). At least, they don't seem like that to me, and if they do come across as such, it was not intentional.

First, about the Daycare. Tess, you said that you would be willing to alter it to allow a third Pokémon dropoff per week, but nothing more. However, I think my idea might have a bit of merit, because while it does allow for more levels gained per week, it does not do so for free. My idea is this; Allow dropped-off Pokémon to gain 2 levels per week, provided the Trainer pays a 1,000 coin fee per Pokémon. The price, obviously, is negotiable, it's really just an example at this point. For instance, say one week I drop off my level 1 Timburr, my level 2 Pawniard, and my level 20 Shadow Ledian at the Daycare, and add in a payment of 1,000 coins for the Timburr. That would enable Ginny and Stewie to gain one level each that week, but Millicent would gain 2 levels due to the 1,000 coins I paid for the extra level. The extra level gains wouldn't be free, and also, it's not like there's no precedent for this- in the games, after all, when you pick up Pokémon from the Daycare, you gotta pay extra depending on how many levels they've gained.

Next, the Training Center. I'm not entirely sure where I stand on the notion of having to pay for that service, but that's not what I'm here about in any case. Given that TMs can be taught to Pokémon regardless of how they learn the move in the games, in my mind, it logically follows that; Pokémon should be able to learn HM moves in the Training Center provided they can learn that move by any means. What I mean by that is... Well, let's use my Timburr as an example. Timburr can learn Rock Smash by TM in Generation V, but cannot be taught Rock Smash in the Training Center, because the species did not exist until after Rock Smash was stripped of its HM status. Therefore, I have not been able to use the Training Center to teach Rock Smash to Millicent.

Next, the Move Tutor. First, I wholeheartedly agree with the idea of switching Pokédexes. Serebii's works decently for more recent generations, but for the first two? It's a total mess. I had to provide two different links when I taught my Beedrill Reflect to prove it learned that move in Generation I. Second, my suggestion is; Allow the Move Tutor moves from XD to be taught. Honestly, I never understood this decision, to exclude XD tutor moves. Shadow purification moves, OK, that I get, those are one-off special cases. But the tutor moves are teachable to any member of the compatible species, they work just like the FR/LG/Emerald tutors. While most of the XD tutors are available in other Generation III games, the only ones exclusive to that game (not counting the Mew tutor moves, which could only really become an issue if/when Treep returns) are Nightmare and Selfdestruct. I just... I never really saw the logic behind excluding the XD tutor moves. Don't get me wrong, I mean, if there is a reason behind it, by all means, just say so, but... I can't see it. On another note, for whatever it's worth, I do agree with the notion of lowering the price of the Pledge moves. They're exclusive to the starters, they're a special deal, I get that, and I'm fine with that. But really, in terms of power and practicality, it's really not that reasonable for them to cost as much as the Hyper Beam equivalents, you know?

Now, the Shop of all Trades. I'll just say it; Allow traded Pokémon to be handed in for Shard Quests again. I get that Shard Quests are not meant to be easy, but here's the thing- they never were easy. There was never any guarantee that someone would hatch the right Pokémon, nor any guarantee that anyone who did would be willing to trade it. Instead of this change bringing them from easy to hard, it's brought them from hard to nearly impossible. Prohibiting Adoption Center Pokémon, starters, or CfP Pokémon made them challenging enough, not to mention the fact that you always had to solve a riddle to figure out which Pokémon you needed in the first place. Shard Quests just never were a free handout by any stretch of the imagination, so it just didn't make sense to me that they got made even more challenging than they already were.

Finally, a general suggestion involving TMs; Allow each Pokémon to learn exactly ONE TM that is not usually learnable by their species, and no more. Now, my thinking is, Pokémon whose movepools were added onto with foreign moves prior to the October 2012 rule changes would keep all their moves, but wouldn't be allowed any extra TM moves by this rule. For instance, my male Qwilfish would not benefit from this in the slightest, given the... sheer amount of unusual moves he already has, but nor would this rule have any negative repercussions on him. Nor would my Gulpin, who has been taught Tri Attack, or my Seviper, who knows Dragon Pulse. My Ivysaur, however, does not know any moves unusual for her species, and thus would be allowed to learn one TM she wouldn't ordinarily be compatible with. I'm thinking that the use of the Training Center would be made mandatory for this specific situation (unless one opted to use the Calendar thread for this instead), the better to keep track of things and prevent anyone from cheating. Not that I think anyone would do such a thing (I know I wouldn't), but still. I feel this is a good idea because it helps people to further personalize their Pokémon beyond what the Boutique could get done. A somewhat decent example (I say somewhat decent because it actually involved two moves) would be when I taught my Banette (then a Shuppet) Water Gun and Sky Attack, because her backstory is that she was a Missingno. when she was alive. The way I see it, this would still allow a tiny bit of movepool flexibility. Again, it's not as though this is entirely without precedent- this time, look at the anime. From the fourth episode, where Samurai's Pinsir pulled off a Tackle attack, it has not been all that uncommon to see Pokémon with moves they don't get in the games. Crobat with SonicBoom, Swanna with Blizzard, Raticate with Jump Kick, I could go on.

Last edited by Missingno. Master; 07-24-2013 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 07-24-2013, 07:31 PM   #15
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I'd say as far as MM's idea of Hidden Ability Eggs are concerned I would make an Egg House Pass for it (and restrict it to holiday giveaways) instead of having it be an egg people could get all the time. Also, it'd be exclusive to Enigma Eggs, and the normal restrictions for those kinds of Eggs apply. Either that, or DW abilities could be an additional thing to RNG up for any eggs and have the same chance as someone getting a shiny or an Egg Move (imagine a shiny with a DW ability... XD) If that still doesn't fly, maybe we could try having DW ability Pokemon available as zone captures in certain areas of the zones, but consider the rarities of those Pokemon to be one or two levels higher than what the normal Pokemon could be. (perhaps add an extra rarity for UR Pokemon with DW abilities, like Epic Rare; also, CG's Forbidden Garden comes to mind since it's supposed to be a epic-tier long adventure)

On another note, I'm interested to see how merging the Casino with CfP will work; it's something I can't really wrap my brain around at this point, so until I see it in action, it's something I don't want to make any judgement calls on.

For the Daycare, I'd be perfectly fine with having three Pokemon be dropped off at a time, that should be enough to make the level-grinding process go faster. I also like MM's option of paying for more levels (plus it wouldn't make the Daycare Passes obsolete). For the Move Tutor, switching Pokedexes would be fine by me, and the Pledge moves really should be a little easier to get since they aren't that great. And then there's the Training Center, where MZ's idea is another good one since it'd mean we don't have Pokemon with HM moves all over the place anymore.

For the Breeding Center, I really like the idea of lowering the breeding level. Somewhere around 50-75 should work, and although it means there's no real incentive to level anyone to Lv. 100, it still means the shop isn't just sitting there waiting for two god-tier Pokemon to decide they want to mate with each other. The idea of giving DW abilities to the children is also a good idea, and again it should be something to RNG for.

I'm not into Contests, but I do think Berries, Pokeblocks, etc. shouldn't expire. They didn't do so in the games, plus it'd be a nightmare to keep track of which berries expire when, both for the players and for the mods. Not only that, they'd have even less value than they do now, regardless of whether or not Contests come back in the near future. Also, a minor thing, but if a Pokemon uses a held Berry that can Confuse them depending on whether or not they dislike a certain flavor, like Figy Berries, that should lock the Pokemon's Nature since the added Confuse status is dependent on Natures.

For now, that's all I feel I should give input on, either because I'm fine either way on what has been suggested or it concerns topics I would want to talk about elsewhere.
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Old 07-24-2013, 07:40 PM   #16
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If that still doesn't fly, maybe we could try having DW ability Pokemon available as zone captures in certain areas of the zones, but consider the rarities of those Pokemon to be one or two levels higher than what the normal Pokemon could be. (perhaps add an extra rarity for UR Pokemon with DW abilities, like Epic Rare; also, CG's Forbidden Garden comes to mind since it's supposed to be a epic-tier long adventure)
I actually think that's a better idea than the notion of a whole different zone for Pokémon with their Hidden Abilities. It'd keep them rare, it'd make us work for them, and it seems as though it wouldn't put any additional strain on the updators- there's nothing extra to update, just another option for rewarding updatees.

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Also, a minor thing, but if a Pokemon uses a held Berry that can Confuse them depending on whether or not they dislike a certain flavor, like Figy Berries, that should lock the Pokemon's Nature since the added Confuse status is dependent on Natures.
I actually went under the assumption that that was the case all along. I've considered my Banette's nature to be locked into Sassy ever since I fed her an Aguav Berry in a Zone to heal her, and informed my updator of her nature so she knew to not have the berry confuse her.
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Old 07-24-2013, 07:47 PM   #17
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I'd just like to say that I really like the idea of a Dream World zone simply because it sounds like the funnest thing to update for ever.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:08 AM   #18
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A lot has been suggested above, some of which I don't know what to think about and some I don't agree on. I won't comment on those yet as I don't know what to think of them and/or have no any other suggestions to add, but I do some things to say + a suggestion of my own which is totally unrelated to the overhaul

My comment:
On the whole Berry/Poffin/Pokéblock and expiration date thing. I think it's a bad idea to give Berries an expiration date. It would make sense in real to do so maybe, but if we're going to look at what makes sense in real I know some other things to change...
Don't forget that some Pokéblock work with specific Berry combinations and some are already incredibly hard to come by as Leichi are near impossible to get. And if more Berries are made more exclusive it will only become harder to get certain Pokéblock. And if on top of that Berries get an expiration date you force people to buy certain Berries (if still possible) or they will just rot away because they're unable to use them because they can't get the other Berries needed for a specific Pokéblock.

So have Berries expire: Bad Idea

I'd rather have Pokéblock/Poffins have an expiration date as I would assume you make those to use them in the first place.

Edit: Just remembered I also had a comment/suggestion on the Breeding Centre. Having it available for lower level Pokémon makes a lot of sense in every way you look at it. Personally I would like to see levels lowered way more than GS suggests with Lv 50-75. I suggest the following: Pokémon should be fully evolved OR at least level 36 to be able to breed (36 because it's a nice number and quite some Pokémon, especially starters, evolve at that level). Meaning that you can breed a Butterfree as early as level 10 but that a Metapod would have to wait till level 36.
I know this makes breeding 'easy' but there should still be a restriction of breeding a Pokémon only 1 time in it's lifetime so it can't really be abused but shouldn't fully evolved Pokémon be able to breed by default? They are matured after all...
But what's most important for me: the RP aspect. I personally would never send one of my Pokémon to the Breeding Centre to just breed, but I would love to be able to send Rose there with Chuck (if MM wants to too ) and be able to do that at a reasonable level ánd when they are ready for that in their relationship. Which for me is at least when they are fully evolved and have been together for a considerable amount of time, but I want to be able to go there when my Pokémon are ready for that RP wise without being restricted by ridiculous level requirements.


And then to my own suggestion, completely unrelated to the overhaul and current changes.

Water.

Jup, just water. What I would LOVE to see/get is a sort of cellar floor in secret bases that have water tiles. Like an underground lake (or a pond for tree bases) with a few land tiles. Say 70% water, 30% land or something.
Why? Because it makes sense. Almost 17% of all Pokémon is of the Water-type and not all are suited to live on land. And all of them prefer to live in or near water. We do have an aquarium item we can buy, but that can only house small Pokémon. Pokémon like Mantine et al. are way too big for an aquarium and also cannot live on land, and lets not even get started on Wailord.

So that's way: Have a cellar floor for bases that has water tiles ^_^
Prices and such should be in line with current bases. I personally suggest to have these base levels be only purchasable when you already have a base and have these water levels be of medium size for either medium or large price. And maybe have a special, extra decorated pond exclusive for tree bases for a premium price, cause a water floor inside a tree doesn't really make sense

Edit: And underground lakes for bases also open up extra RP opportunities, and isn't that what FB is all about?

Last edited by Escalion; 07-25-2013 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:09 PM   #19
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Shuckle Berry Shop Suggestion

I have one or two other suggestions but I think it'd be a good idea to focus on one topic at a time.

This is an idea for the Berry Shop situation based off of what Enchantress said about harvesting as I believe that berries should be more challenging to collect than they currently are without just jacking up their price or giving them expiry dates. Harvesting sounds not only like a simple solution to this but also sounds like a fun side-quest. Back in Gen III-IV I used to always grow berries and even though I didn’t use half of them I aimed to have about 10 of each. When Gen V made berries purchasable I didn’t bother collecting them as I always had the option to buy them whenever I needed to and I didn’t need to invest any time in planting or watering them. I think this is similar to FB and I don’t even bother picking up the weekly berry anymore as I could just as easily buy one.

Suggested changes

1. Remove all berries from the Berry Shop
Barring Oran, Chesto, Pecha, Rawst, Aspear, Leppa and Persim as I believe these should be available to new members straight away). I think if TMs and evolution items need to go, then these need to go. It might be an idea to sell rarer berries as a special promotion during events such as FB’s birthday, but I do not believe buying berries should be the main focus of this shop anymore.

2. Adopt a berry harvesting system
It should work like a normal weekly shop, with users being able to plant X amount of berries per week, water them Y amount of times over a certain period of time and harvest them when they have fully grown. Any system would be fine, so long as members are able to make a reasonable berry collection without having to buy or trade.

My suggestion is to allow members to grow a maximum of 2 berry plants per time. They can only post in the shop on Mondays to either plant berries or water their plants. The shop will be updated once per week, with the shop updater advancing the member’s plant a stage (sprout, growing, blooming, fruiting) regardless of if the member posts to water their plants. Therefore it will take 4 weeks from planting a berry for it to harvest. Rarer berries could take longer, but I think this would only overcomplicate things and they already have smaller yields.

How many berries a plant harvests will depend on how many times the member posts to water their plant. I suggest that the shop updater follow the game’s formula to determine how many berries that is – however I also think that because growing berries will take 4 weeks rather than 4-48 hours the plants should yield more berries (perhaps delete the /4 part of the formula). Of course everything is faster in the games than in FB (raising a pokemon takes hours rather than weeks) so the formula may be fine as is.

This is an example template that the updaters of the shop could follow. The images aren’t necessary and would probably be a waste of time if there's 30+ members using the shop but I just thought it looked nice – they could always go in the shop description :P

Talon:
Sprouting Leppa Plant
Blooming Leichi Plant (Watered 2x)

MarbleZone
Fruiting Persim Plant (Watered x3)

Harvest: 10x Persim Berries
Fruiting Aguav Plant (Watered 1x Dry 2x)

Harvest: 2x Aguav Berries

Each of your plants will have grown one stage at the end of the week.
Please remember to water and harvest your plants at the proper time.



3. Keep the free weekly berry promotion and special berry promotions
This will be the main method for new and existing members to collect that one berry they do not own so they can plant it and harvest more from it. At the moment it’s not that popular, but if berries are made more challenging to obtain then I imagine a lot more people will use it.

4. Introduce Mulch as a purchasable item
This would give some value to an otherwise worthless item. Mulch could be sold at a relatively low price (1,000 coins?) and used when planting a berry to create various beneficial effects. Growth Mulch could allow berries to be picked up a week early, Damp Much could lower the amount of times you need to water your berry, Stable Mulch could allow you to collect your berries a week late without losing them, Gooey Mulch doesn’t really have a transferable effect so I’d suggest making it increase your berry yield by X amount. You should only be able to use one fertilizer at a time. It would also improve the Berry Shop's range if most of the berries were removed.

5. Introduce Berry Juice as a purchasable item
Just because :P It would also improve the Berry Shop's range if most of the berries were removed. I know a mini game to convert berries into berry juice has been suggested in the past, but I don't think it's worth focusing on.

This may need some (or a lot) of tweaking but I think the general idea is a pretty good one. I have to agree that I think perishable berries will make collecting too difficult as you’d need to be constantly active to keep a decent stock of berries as they’d always be expiring. Pokéblocks and Poffins should spoil, but I don’t think it would be feasible giving berries the same treatment, even if it is logical.

Last edited by empoleon dynamite; 07-25-2013 at 01:16 PM.
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Old 07-25-2013, 02:16 PM   #20
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First of all, thank you Tess for taking the time to sit down and reply so thoroughly to so many topics in one go, especially with all that’s going on in your life at the moment. It means a lot.


I know I just made a stupidly long post too, but I’d just like to develop two ideas a little more. After this I promise I’ll shut up.


Dream World Zone


Spoiler: show
This is really just an idea like any other, and not very fleshed out, but even if doesn’t work it might get people thinking about alternatives.

My “vision” for Hidden Abilities is, like I said, that they deserve to be earned via Dream World Pokemon gotten in special adventures instead of handed out in the Egg House or… anywhere else, really. So to me a Dream World Zone makes perfect sense. The catch is, it could never work like a regular zone; imagine the sheer number of people who would apply if everybody was allowed in at once, and imagine the backlog it’d create. It’s bad enough in regular zones as it is.

To me, making it into the Dream World should be a pretty rare occasion, which in my view would have a lot of advantages: the demand on updaters would be lower, especially if we could agree to keep adventures short; it’d really put the focus on each player if only a handful were adventuring at the same time, inviting other people to comment on those ongoing journeys without being put off by the sheer number of updates and replies; and above all, it wouldn’t turn Hidden Abilities into a widespread commodity, assuring that they remained very scarce and thus very special.

As for how people would be admitted in the Zone, there’s literally thousands of ways we could work it out. One idea among those thousands that I’ve come up with could be used to simultaneously boost interest in another neglected area of FB.

Knowing nothing of Contests (I think I’ve mentioned this almost as many times as my preference for Male Pokemon recently :P), I read through the Spa and Poketreats stores, and something caught my eye that we could tweak to incorporate this Dream World mechanic: the Blenders, in particular the Mega Blender.

My suggestion is the following: We could rename the Mega Blender (or not) into something like Fennel’s Mega Blender (or add a new one entirely, but I think the existing one works perfectly), an experimental machine designed by Fennel in order to artificially create Dream Mist. Being a prototype, a vast majority of the time it’d only produce the usual result, a Pokeblock out of 4 berries that are put inside. But on rare occasions, a certain combination of Berries (say, all Rare or rarer, or one of the 4 being a Super Rare or rarer) would randomly generate a byproduct along with the mandatory Pokeblock: Dream Dust. When consumed (in the Intro Post of the Dream World Zone), it’d induce a dream-like state identical to the one created by Munna’s Dream Mist, and the Dream World adventure would begin.

It’s a little convoluted, and of course the odds should be pretty low or else everyone would end up with Dream Dust (I’m leaving the specific RNG values up to you), but on the other hand it really should boost the number of people using the Blender. Worst case scenario they’d walk out with a Pokeblock, which is the original purpose of the Shop, and since they might as well use it or trade it, it’d also work toward the Contest side of FB that will eventually resurface – people who never used the Poketreats Store before might start using it solely for that shot at Dream Dust.

The item could also be handed out as an Adventure reward, as long as it made sense, to the occasional player as well, but never handed out at Events because it’d mean everyone would suddenly have the key to entering the Zone at once. I’d like the key item to the Dream World to be intentionally difficult to come across.

As for the Adventure itself, like I said, any active updater could pick a player up, not just mods. I would prefer a shorter updating style, rapid-fire even, because dreams themselves are short (and Dream Dust shouldn't put you in a coma :P), and the longer an adventure goes on, the faster they’ll pile up regardless of Dream Dust’s availability. This is a rough outline, and like I said there may be better ways to do this, but it’s a start for you guys to improve it or even go for something entirely different.



Community Gardens – Berry Harvesting


Spoiler: show
It’s just a quick idea for another Monday shop, because this doesn’t need to be complicated at all. Actually, the simpler it is, the more people will adhere. Again, it’s just an idea among many.

The Community Gardens could be a a regular Shop for berry harvesting.
My idea would be to give everyone their own plot of land where they can grow up to, say, 3 berries at once. Rarer berries would take longer to grow then Common ones, ensuring the status quo is maintained, and the whole shop would provide enough Berries both for Poffins/blocks and the eventual Dream Dust seekers.

Say that a player plants 1 Common Berry, 1 Super Rare and 1 Ultra Rare in Week 1 (on Monday, of course) and waters them with their trusty Wailmer Pail. Come next Monday, the shopkeeper would post something like:

“Arnold: Oran (C) watered 1 time (RIPE!) // Belue (SR) watered 1 time // Liechi (UR) watered 1 time .”

Picking up RIPE! Berries would yield something like 3 of those Berries; Commons could take 1 week to grow, Rares 2 weeks, Supers 3 weeks and Ultras 6 weeks, for example. They’d have to quote the shopkeeper’s post of course, and water them again, and failing to water a berry one week would result in losing that berry, meaning that watering would have to happen on 3 consecutive weeks before a Belue Berry is RIPE! and 3x Belue can be collected. Of course, there's no reason why someone else shouldn't be able to water a player's berries one week if he can't make it himself, just like people ask someone else to pick up their Monday Candy occasionally.

If a system like this could be implemented (and those numbers are just suggestions, tailor them to your own opinion!), I’d say the need for berry spoilage would be void, assuming people would play along with the Community Gardens concept as a Monday Shop. Spoilage is impractical in a game like this, so going through a convoluted process just to penalize players in something as meaningless as a berry is not worth it. It’d also mean MooMoo Milk could realistically go sour and nobody wants that to happen. :P
The Berry Shop itself would become of questionable necessity, or it could stay but with increased prices for those lazy bums who can’t be bothered to work the land (:P), the important thing is that some berries keep flowing into the game from somewhere so that people can get started on their crops.



Just two quick things I pieced together, I’m sure someone else will do a much better job at coming up with well-structured ideas. For what it’s worth, this is my input. ^^ Like I promised, I’ll shut up now. :P


EDIT: Wow. Sorry Emp, I swear hadn't read your post! I typed this whole thing on Word and posted it before skimming the thread for new replies, hadn't noticed you'd proposed something so similar about harvesting an hour before me! Didn't mean to walk over your suggestion at all, mate. :/ But the fact that we had such a similar idea probably means we're on to something here, right?

Last edited by MarbleZone; 07-25-2013 at 03:10 PM.
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Old 07-25-2013, 02:50 PM   #21
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Time to give my ideas:

Daycare Center
Spoiler: show
The problem with the Daycare system isn't that its underwhleming. A free level on two Pokemon isn't bad. And back in the day, when one wouldn't have more than six or nine or whatever most likely, it was balanced. However, since the new unlimited slot rules came along, suddenly, people's squads exploded. That's not an exaggeration either. I have 16 Pokemon, and that's a small "large" squad.

Now, look it at like a math equation. They daycare was balanced with limited slots. However, when you changed this to unlimited, the equation went out of wack. Now the Daycare simple can't cope with the demand. You are right Tess. We shouldn't be able to raise six or seven Pokemon every week from level 1. But at the current pace now, its EXTREMELY difficult. As of now, there are only four ways to level-up a Pokemon: Daycare, Candies, Birthdays, and Adventures. There hasn't been Trainer Battle activity. At all. Now I understand why, but even with Trainer battles a Pokemon can't simply be in four places at once.

Here is my proposal. I'm not normally one to "buff" things up, but the Daycare definitely needs it.
  • Increase the number of Pokemon who can stay at the Daycare from 2, to 3
  • Allow for a trainer to pay an extra amount of coins to raise a Pokemon up extra levels. For example, 5000 coins for 2, 7500 coins for 4 etc
  • For a paid stay, increase the amount of time needed to stay at the Daycare center by (levels gained)/2. This is because you can technically raise a Pokemon two levels for free now; one from the Daycare, and one from the Monthly candy. It makes no sense to penalize on that. So to raise a Pokemon 2 levels, you need one week and 5000 coins. The raise a Pokemon 6 levels, you need 10000 coins and 3 weeks stay.
  • Reduce the prices of Double Daycare passes in the Staff Prize Shop


Beauty Salon
Spoiler: show
I disagree with Marble. If a Pokemon needs Beauty Points to evolve now, it needs friendship points, not a maxed Beauty stat. That's very restrictive to contests and such. One might not want to max a Pokemon's beauty stat, like my Lopunny. There is no reason to force somebody to do it. And in that regard, Feebas should really evolve by the Prism Scale. Don't know if it already does though. Otherwise, I have no problem with this really.


Egg House
Spoiler: show
This is really a sore point for me. Because this...is just...I don't even know. It really seems like this is an unfair shop. With the AR back, more people are getting first captures, yes, but at the same time older members who still don't are finding it harder than before to get their captures. People wonder why people like gmoyes and me scrimped and saved every candy we could, or didn't trade through the White Market thread. And then all you have to look it was the wealth some people had. Even now, if you can hatch the right things, its a money-making machine, and people with EH privileges have such an intrinsic advantage over other people. It's hard for me to compete with someone over a Foongus when they are offering the next three eggs they hatch! How am I supposed to compete with that? Protip: I'm not. The ONLY way I can compete is by giving the person three of my Pokemon. And I'm not doing that. Why should I? But now anyone with EH privileges can just out-bid me. Instantly. There is such an unfair advantage with the shop and the way trades work.

Changes:
  • Make it so if a FBer doesn't get a capture in a certain length of time, they get EH privileges. This shouldn't be short either.
  • Make it ILLEGAL to trade "future eggs." That's bullcrap and is completely unfair to new members, or older ones with fewer privileges.
  • Oh yeah, last thing, Egg House passes should be DEFUALT usable by people who don't have the privileges. I don't have to bring up Easter and the FB birthday again do I?


That's all I am gonna say for now.
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Old 07-25-2013, 02:59 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazeVA View Post
Time to give my ideas:

Beauty Salon
If a Pokemon needs Beauty Points to evolve now, it needs friendship points, not a maxed Beauty stat. That's very restrictive to contests and such. One might not want to max a Pokemon's beauty stat, like my Lopunny. There is no reason to force somebody to do it. And in that regard, Feebas should really evolve by the Prism Scale. Don't know if it already does though. Otherwise, I have no problem with this really.
Either I missed your point, or you missed mine. Lopunny evolves by Friendship/Happiness/Tameness, so it'd need Beauty Points as it already does (ideally renamed to Friendship Points or whatever), I'm not changing that.

It's only Pokemon that evolve in the games by Beauty stat that should evolve by Beauty Contest Stat here, which amounts to Feebas only, right? Prism Scale works too, that's not my point and it is indeed more practical (but less interesting from an RP perspective). I'm not forcing Happiness evos to change their trigger to Beauty Contest Stat! I just want to keep Beauty Points (with a different name), and make them harder to get.

Sorry if I missed your point completely :/
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Old 07-25-2013, 03:00 PM   #23
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No, I thought that was what you were saying. That suddenly Pokemon like Lopunny needed a max Beauty stat.
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Old 07-25-2013, 04:10 PM   #24
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I disagree with Blaze about just giving people who've been here for a while Egg House privileges without getting first captures. It might be really inconvenient for them, but the rule was put into place so newbies couldn't exploit it right away. If they see some of the older people without captures get Egg House privileges, we'd be getting tons of complaints from them about us being inconsistent. However, I do agree with Blaze on one thing: people should NOT be allowed to trade on the premise that one side promises to trade the other a Pokemon they hatch from an egg in the future (or anything that person plans on getting in the future, really; either you have it in your hot little hands right now, or you don't). Not only is that totally unfair to those who don't have Egg House privileges, but think about what could potentially happen on the off-chance someone went back on their word... yikes. ^_^' Best just to nip that in the bud as soon as possible!
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Old 07-25-2013, 04:24 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemini Spark View Post
However, I do agree with Blaze on one thing: people should NOT be allowed to trade on the premise that one side promises to trade the other a Pokemon they hatch from an egg in the future (or anything that person plans on getting in the future, really; either you have it in your hot little hands right now, or you don't). Not only is that totally unfair to those who don't have Egg House privileges, but think about what could potentially happen on the off-chance someone went back on their word... yikes. ^_^' Best just to nip that in the bud as soon as possible!
By the same logic, all the people going "I bid <x> candies, but you'll have to wait until Monday so I can get a hold of the last one!" should be cut out.

And this isn't a mod problem; this is a community problem. They shouldn't be bothered with something like this when they're all sorts of things that probably a bit more important than people going "WAAAH THEY'RE USING THINGS THAT THEY DON'T HAVE ;~;".

Any replies to this can be directed to PM's/TO because this isn't a place for discussion, this is a place for suggestions (and the title implies this being used for questions as well (a FAQ replacement (?)))
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