It's time to D-D-D-D-DDDDUEL

[Doppleganger]

Originally Posted by Emi

triple Solemn Judgment

WHAT.

[Princess Ana]

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

WHAT.

It's Unlimited

[Doppleganger]

So what's going on that caused a reversal of the meta nuke? A traps too slow or too restricted to do much now?

[Princess Ana]

Mostly too slow. Judgment is still really powerful going 1st but its hefty LP cost makes it a lot riskier going second, especially since it can't negate Monster effects.

Also the new time rules really gave it a swift kick in the dick.

[Doppleganger]

So the main threats are Ash Blossom, Impermanence, what about draw cards?

That pot, I forgot what it was, saw a huge drop in usage once Ash Blossom came out. I encountered another one that banished cards from the Extra Deck in exchange for +'s.

...

A cursory evaluation is that, surprisingly, under "Classic" rules my deck is actually weaker than under Link rules. How's that possible you say?

Well when Needlefiber was introduced, I still had access to Ancient Fairy Dragon, Level Eater and Soul Charge. All of those helped compensate for the loss to consistency with all my draw cards getting hit, namely ROTA.

I need a way to mulligan my hands at a +0.

[Princess Ana]

Pot of Desires, Pot of Extravagance, Allure of Darkness, Sekka's Light are the big ones

[Doppleganger]

What about Chaos XYZ monsters that you can overlay over a Rank 5?

Reckless Greed looks like the only option right now. All the thinners are gone, and there's no way to shuffle through Level 1 tuners like Effect Veiler. I'm considering the seven stars draw card because I think it combos with Allure and Radian?

In spite of the time that has past in the Link era, there are no longer any good Level 7's and still nothing powerful enough in Level 9, 10, 11 or 12 Synchro that isn't Quasar or Blazar. The Cyberse Synchro is promising but a lackluster payoff.

I have a lot of options with Tatsunoko but nothing particularly worthy of deckspace. And it doesn't look possible to hand loop opponents anymore.

[Princess Ana]

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

What about Chaos XYZ monsters that you can overlay over a Rank 5?

Are we talking like, Gaia Charger? No one has used Gaia Charger in years

Reckless Greed looks like the only option right now. All the thinners are gone, and there's no way to shuffle through Level 1 tuners like Effect Veiler. I'm considering the seven stars draw card because I think it combos with Allure and Radian?

Yep but it probably is not worth it to run with 1 non-engine card. Desires is functionally a lot better.

In spite of the time that has past in the Link era, there are no longer any good Level 7's and still nothing powerful enough in Level 9, 10, 11 or 12 Synchro that isn't Quasar or Blazar. The Cyberse Synchro is promising but a lackluster payoff.

Yazi, Black Rose, and Dawn Dragster are all still good. Yazi into Mare Mare adds a lot of versatility. Also Shooting Riser Dragon.

I have a lot of options with Tatsunoko but nothing particularly worthy of deckspace. And it doesn't look possible to hand loop opponents anymore.

With 1 Omega, not really.

[Doppleganger]

Originally Posted by Emi

Are we talking like, Gaia Charger? No one has used Gaia Charger in years

I'd like something better than that. Is there anything?

Originally Posted by Emi

Yep but it probably is not worth it to run with 1 non-engine card. Desires is functionally a lot better.

Desires is good but the deck damage is worse than extravagance. And, it's a huge risk to run with Ash Blossom out there essentially crippling the deck. I might put it back though...haven't decided yet.

Originally Posted by Emi

Yazi, Black Rose, and Dawn Dragster are all still good. Yazi into Mare Mare adds a lot of versatility. Also Shooting Riser Dragon.

Yazi: This guy was solid in the past although not a worldbeater. Is it better now?
Black Rose: I've always hated this card and it doesn't synergize well with control.
Dawn Dragster: Interesting, kind of Shi-En lite but very low offensive presence.

Originally Posted by Emi

With 1 Omega, not really.

I never looped with Omega, I used Trishula, Dark Law and Durendal.

[Princess Ana]

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

I'd like something better than that. Is there anything?

Unless you want to run Cyber Dragon Nova or Orcusts, no.

Desires is good but the deck damage is worse than extravagance. And, it's a huge risk to run with Ash Blossom out there essentially crippling the deck. I might put it back though...haven't decided yet.

Unless you're running a better draw spell, its the best one in the game currently for generic use.

Yazi: This guy was solid in the past although not a worldbeater. Is it better now?
Black Rose: I've always hated this card and it doesn't synergize well with control.
Dawn Dragster: Interesting, kind of Shi-En lite but very low offensive presence.

Yazi can special summon Mare Mare. That's one of the reasons to use it. Mare Mare is consistently ridiculous.

I never looped with Omega, I used Trishula, Dark Law and Durendal.

Then yes, it still technically is.

[Doppleganger]

The Trishula loops are dead. The way to do it was to go into Trish, then lower Trish's levels with Level Eater and loop through a second round of Synchros, and use four level 4's to make Quasar or Trish + Durendal + Dark Law.

Without Level Eater, Trish is a dead-end summon and not the middle act of a crippling no Workman's Comp would ever cover.

I looked into Mare Mare but it's not otherwise searchable (or useable).

What I ended up using was: Sacred Sword of Seven Stars + Radian + x3 Allure, rather than using Desires.

I might end up ditching Durendal, who the fudge thought Triple Solemns was a good idea, I have no idea.

Is there anything good to use with Fusions aside from TER? Also, do the Solemns stop the literal hand traps like II and Reboot?

[Doppleganger]

I played Thunders for the first time.

I lost, but I don't feel bad about it? Honestly the mechanics of how the deck spit out its bosses went over my head. I don't have the patience for that anymore.

tl;dr it's a lot of floating that leads into two bosses, one which pops and the other which is a basic floodgate beatstick that prevents you from searching answers.

I used Radian to kill the latter, but had no way ot beating the former. Half the time, poor draws hamper my ability to make plays anyway. The floodgate limited what I could search out and I was stuck having to use what was in my hand.

It's too bad there's no kaiju that uses two monsters for tribute, like Lava Golem.

[Princess Ana]

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

The Trishula loops are dead. The way to do it was to go into Trish, then lower Trish's levels with Level Eater and loop through a second round of Synchros, and use four level 4's to make Quasar or Trish + Durendal + Dark Law.

Without Level Eater, Trish is a dead-end summon and not the middle act of a crippling no Workman's Comp would ever cover.

I looked into Mare Mare but it's not otherwise searchable (or useable).

What I ended up using was: Sacred Sword of Seven Stars + Radian + x3 Allure, rather than using Desires.

I might end up ditching Durendal, who the fudge thought Triple Solemns was a good idea, I have no idea.

Is there anything good to use with Fusions aside from TER? Also, do the Solemns stop the literal hand traps like II and Reboot?

Yes, Solemn Judgment stops II and Red Reboot. For Instant Fusion, Millenium Eyes Restrict and Invoked Raidjin come to mind.

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

I played Thunders for the first time.

I lost, but I don't feel bad about it? Honestly the mechanics of how the deck spit out its bosses went over my head. I don't have the patience for that anymore.

tl;dr it's a lot of floating that leads into two bosses, one which pops and the other which is a basic floodgate beatstick that prevents you from searching answers.

I used Radian to kill the latter, but had no way ot beating the former. Half the time, poor draws hamper my ability to make plays anyway. The floodgate limited what I could search out and I was stuck having to use what was in my hand.

It's too bad there's no kaiju that uses two monsters for tribute, like Lava Golem.

Colossus tributes a Thunder effect monster to Special Summon itself if you've activated the effect of a Thunder monster in the hand. Titan summons itself by banishing a Thunder Fusion monster you control and a Thunder effect monster in your hand.

[Doppleganger]

The summoning conditions are fine, but how the engine floated went over my head. Search, graveyard banish, return to the deck and then a +0 fusion?

I had a similar issue against Bahamat Shark/Toads, Radian was good enough to wipe out one toad but you need two to break their board, and I didn't have enough cards to muster offense ON TOP of breaking the board.

[Princess Ana]

In fairness, this is part of the reason people run Infinite Impermanence :p

You could also run Artifact Lancea.

[Doppleganger]

It's looking like I will be dropping Dark Law, one of the signature cards of my deck.

The main reason is Dark Law was always a floodgate to either stall for time or lock down an opponent after setting up a field. But with triple Solemn Judgment, Dark Laws's walling abilities aren't as necessary, and the deck space for Mask Change 2 is much more important for other cards.

As a beatstick, Radian is much more powerful that Dark Law or even BLS. Not only does it break boards and serve as draw fodder, it can become a beastick on its own once I've used another Radian. Omega can also ram into Radian, then spin milled copies of Solemn Judgment back into the deck!

Konami really did a number on me this time though. Multiple Librarian are good but less for plussing when two are on the field and more you don't die once Librarian is killed. But I am remarkably starved for:

Level 4 Tatsunoko fodder
Level 3 Tatsunoko fodder
Level 9 Synchros
Level 10 Synchros

Deng Long, 2+ Omega are cards I didn't use a lot in the past but are sorely missed now.

That said, it seems the writing is on the table that I look into non-Needlefiber generic Links to abuse.

So...what are broken, generic Links?

[Princess Ana]

Knightmares, Borrelsvvord, Avramax, Apollousa etc

Have you looked into the Ib synchro as vvell?

[Doppleganger]

Why do you use vv instead of w? Is there a technical reason behind it or a writing quirk?

I looked up those cards!

Knightmare - This is a standard toolbox archetype. Gryphon looks like it has the most utility, but not as a way of breaking through big boards.

Borrelsword - Only a single monster, Borrelsword Dragon. Unfortunately, it is an OTK-focused beatstick and doesn't play nice with Tokens which are counted as Normal Monsters.

Avramax - Awesome. This looks useful enough to try out!

Apollousa - A lesser version of Crystal Wing and Clear Wing, which I have access to but don't really use.

I can summon Link God Dragon. Unfortunately, the maintence cost sucks.

...

As for the IB Synchro, it and Junk Speeder don't really fit with what I'm trying to do, as both require deck dedication. I have no idea how Junk Speeder is supposed to work anyway.

[Princess Ana]

My vv key is broken on my laptop and my spare keyboard is dovvnstairs.

There's also Saryuja Skull Dread. It vvorks particularly vvell vvith Rescue Ferret, as it can Special Summon Rescue Ferret from the hand and gives 3 Link zones for Ferret's effect.

[Doppleganger]

So only using Needlefiber had me forget that apparently I don't know how to Link summon. Avramx requires 4 materials which makes it prohibitive to use.

Wee Witch Apprentice is something I can use, but would prefer something stronger and slightly less restrictive.

As for Saryuja Skull Dread, it requires 4 mats to make? What's the point of 2+, 3+ effects if you need a minimum of 4 monsters to make it?

[Princess Ana]

Link 2 monsters can count for 2 materials and link 3s can count for 3

So you can make Saryuja and Avramax vvith 2 link 2s, or a link 3 and another monster, or a link 2 and 2 other monsters

For example, you can make Needlefiber, special summon Glovv-Up bulb, link it for linkuriboh, SS the GUB vvith its eff, and make Saryuja

[Doppleganger]

Feels a bit wasteful, but I haven't seen it in action.

I lost a game where I was reduced to nothing but Junk Synchron + Doppelwarrior, so Wee Witch isn't to be underestimated. With Librarian, they were 4900 damage together.

With that Link info, it's possible to make Selene, the Sacred Sovereign of Magic using Librarian + Wee Witch. I can then summon back Librarian, or perhaps Effect Veiler, but I don't see a clear payoff for this.

[Princess Ana]

VVee VVitch is pretty good.

I:P Masquerena is also really good. It can Link during your opponent's turn and gives the monster protection. Useful if you vvant to make Knightmare Unicorn or any of the Topolgic monsters.

Have you considered the Danger!? monsters at all?

[Doppleganger]

I looked at Danger?! Tsuchinoko. I might replace Farfa with it, since it always seems live. If I'm understanding this correctly, once it's discarded, it special summons itself from the grave or banish zone?

Can you summon Links in defense mode? How does Wee Witch interact with Selene's summon from the graveyard?

[Princess Ana]

As long as Tsuchinoko is discarded, it'll special summon itself. I'd took a look at some of the other monsters, like Jackalope, Nessie, and Mothman. They also probably help a Junk Speeder version of the deck.

Links cannot be in Defense mode at all. Selene cannot Special Summon links.