04-07-2018, 01:42 PM | #26 |
Droppin' CDs and beats
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Welp, I'm gonna throw my second post out the window because I'm freakin' lazy and it's been pretty much covered already XP So onwards with Tate's big post!
>What are Shadow Pokemon? General agreement. It's similar to what we used to have, plus some extra flexibility with Bond not needed to be changed/dependent to be a Shadow (but can be used in terms of "flavor"). The description of what Shadow Pokémon is is even more generic than my original one, so again, more RP flexibility. >How do we balance Shadow Pokemon? I kinda want to go with something like Glass Cannon, but a little less strong: Shadow-type moves does 1.5 damage more while they're 1.5 weaker against the usual types on top of the Pokémon's usual typing. Fever kicks in at 50% HP. As for Fever itself, I would say it could be triggered at any time on top of triggered automatically when it reaches half of their HP. And I find it would be very cool to adding the "calling out" feature from the games, adding more fun into it and gives the choice of whenever canceling Fever or not (plus it could be, kind of like the games, integrated in the Clarity system, see below). >How are Shadow Pokemon obtained? >>Shadow Spray not being a thing Well my previous proposition was to try and find a balance between having it and still not going in the possible morals behind the procedure... but seems like it didn't work ^^; So I'm all in to simply not making it a thing and rely on the other solutions instead. >>Shadow vs. Bond Yep, agree that the main issue with Bond (well, in terms with Shadow Pokémon, not in general) is that it blocks the possibility of wanting to keep Bond for whatever reason (mainly evolution and Bond-based moves). >>Bond vs. Clarity That said, I would prefer to keep both the old system (after some tweaks) and the suggested system, as I like them both. It'll give us more choice on how we want to do things: One person could RP a trainer that doesn't treat their Pokémon right (to a limit) or simply that their Pokémon hates the trainer, so by tweaking Bond, they'll be able to not only reflect that in-game, but also eventually reach the goal of being Shadow. And with the Clarity system, someone could RP a Pokémon that still have a good relationship with their trainer (Bond), but still able to turn into a Shadow Pokémon for whatever reason (ie wanting power, is in a bad mental state, "Lawful Evil" type, etc). TL;DR: No vs., both are good and can work together. >>Tweaks in Bond Fully agree with what is presented. On a sidenote: I would totally call the negative version of the Yummi Gummi as a Yucky Gummi. Because it's just so darn funny and appropriate. >>Clarity system Love it. I do want to add a few things though: You could also have a +1 Clarity for calling out your Pokémon out of Fever mode. And... I feel there should be more ways to lose Clarity besides Shadow Ball, fainting and the Shadow zone. I'm not sure what though... Even though it's been said we wouldn't need a shop to keep track of it, I feel like some would need it, in a similar fashion with Rare Candies. Perhaps we should simply have the Candy Shop for only as a Rare Candy bank, and have Bond and Clarity their own shop? Speaking of shops... >>Shadow-fying shop I personally don't like that idea. We're trying to stay away from shops to gain things (to a certain point), so it's going against that FB philosophy. So big nope on that. >>Getting Shadow Pokémon from zones Horray for confirmation! >>"Shadow zone" Although I do like the idea in general, and I do understand the idea of limiting entrance via the Silver Umbra item, but I feel it isn't worth making it as an individual zone like the Dream World of before. I thought that perhaps, instead of making it as its own zone, that we add Shadow areas to the zones we already have. I would totally see the Topsy-Turvy Hills in New Fizz City's Outskirts, and... any area in Marécage Noir, really. that way, we'll be simply using both places and ZAs/ZUs that are already established. That said though, if it is decided that those Shadow areas stays in a single new zone, I wouldn't be that mad about it, especially with the limitations of the Silver Umbra and the 2-times per year limit. All in all, good job Tate ^^ |
04-07-2018, 01:57 PM | #27 |
Sayonara Bye Bye
Join Date: Feb 2017
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Just an aside, in terms of creative license, if we did choose to add shadow areas to existing zones rather than open a dedicated shadow zone... I'd really prefer they be unique areas, not piecemeal excisions from the Realm of Shadows. I did put a lot of effort into everything I wrote in my proposal and I think it would leave a very bad taste in my mouth to, say, remove the Topsy-Turvy Hills from the broader context I created, and drop them, out of context, into New Fizz City.
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04-07-2018, 02:39 PM | #28 | |
Droppin' CDs and beats
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Quote:
Edit: I also want to add in some ideas I mentioned also in the Discord chat: - Loss of Clarity for each post in the Shadow zone/areas. That said, if the goal of the adventure is to reach 0 Clarity, that mechanic might be useless (that said, Clarity is technically optional, so someone who doesn't want the loss of Clarity while in Shadow areas can be ignored.) - Boost up the loss of Clarity to -5 or -6 when the Pokémon faints, and also add a loss of Clarity of -2 or -3 when going in Fever mode. Last edited by OkikuMew; 04-07-2018 at 02:47 PM. |
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06-08-2018, 01:09 PM | #29 | ||||||
Sayonara Bye Bye
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Last edited by Nerd Violence; 06-08-2018 at 02:06 PM. |
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06-08-2018, 03:18 PM | #30 |
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The only thing I’m not the *biggest* fan of the 25% chance to disobey from an RP perspective but I don’t see any other issue and it definitely isn’t any sort of dealbreaker for me. A simple solution though I just thought of: at X (max?) bond the 25% chance goes away.
Last edited by biggggg5; 06-08-2018 at 05:13 PM. |
06-08-2018, 03:40 PM | #31 |
Weavile Pillow
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I haven't given as much of my thoughts on this as I probably should have, but this all looks good to me, especially the new Fever and Clarity mechanics. The one problem I have is that Shadow moves don't act different when used on Shadow Pokemon vs. when used on non-Shadow Pokemon, which is something the games were very clear on. I personally think it makes sense for Shadow Pokemon to take reduced damage from Shadow moves because it doesn't disturb their soul as much it would other Pokemon.
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06-08-2018, 08:02 PM | #32 |
An actual game I made!
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I second biggggg and GS's respective concerns, and want to add my two cents- namely, about Fever. Why come up with the name Fever for what Colosseum already calls Hyper Mode? Granted, Hyper Mode increases Shadow Rush's crit rate instead of altering stats like Fever does, but I feel like it's close enough to Hyper Mode. Additionally, I'm thinking that maybe instead of the disobedience being a constant thing, maybe it could be tied to Hyper Mode, in addition to (or maybe instead of?) the defense drops. In Colosseum, Hyper Mode made it so ordering any non-Shadow move made the Pokémon likely to disobey said order. Just my suggestion on the matter.
Other than that, this all looks fine to me. |
06-08-2018, 08:25 PM | #33 |
Thankful For The Results
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I've had some time to mull over this since my incident on Discord, so let's try this again- on the thread, at that~!
Building on MM's comment regarding Fever, XD chose to call the same event "Reverse Mode" instead of "Hyper Mode", though that may have more to do with the fact that it was purely negative for you in that particular case. I imagine that your name stems from the quote "[Pokemon]'s emotions rose to a fever pitch!"? I am a bit concerned about the fact that Shadow pokemon receive such a high damage multiplier from all attacks (possible leeway for Shadow-on-Shadow action not included), especially since the Life Orb only buffs attack damage by 30%. I do get why the modifier exists from a balance perspective (though it is another case of Hyper/Reverse Modes getting kinda spliced into the state of being Shadow in the first place), so maybe knock it down to 25%? They are still subject to the normal Type Chart, after all, and the highest Base Power Shadow attacks have is 120 (on an attack with poor Accuracy and subjects the user to the effects of game!Super Fang, at that). We do want these things to be unwieldy, but not completely detrimental. |
06-13-2018, 10:11 AM | #34 |
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
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Honestly from my own personal perspective this by and large looks really good, the only thing I would change is the % chances to more general guidelines, since I think the consensus is to leave it more in the updator's hands than an RNG in terms of stuff like this (Source: Previous Bond dicussion).
Otherwise this looks really polished and well-done. PS: "Twisty" Shrine is funny. I like it.
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06-29-2018, 11:07 PM | #35 | |||||||||
Sayonara Bye Bye
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Last edited by Nerd Violence; 06-29-2018 at 11:32 PM. |
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06-29-2018, 11:31 PM | #36 |
Sayonara Bye Bye
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06-30-2018, 12:28 PM | #37 |
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Said it on discord last night but I’ll put it here as well for posterity. But I think this looks really great. As close to making everyone happy as we are going to get.
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06-30-2018, 03:41 PM | #38 |
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I was originally apprehensive about all of this, but I love the final draft. I do hope that Silver Umbra won't be as rare as actual Shiny Sprays, though. I'd like at least one event within this year so people can have a go of it for a wild Shadow to celebrate its opening, but that's just me.
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07-03-2018, 11:07 AM | #39 |
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
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Given that there is no other grievances and after discussion with the other mods, this proposal is good to go and everything can be implemented.
Expect an announcement and changes to happen within the next couple of days.
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