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Old 01-22-2015, 09:57 AM   #1
SW!FT
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Super Smash Bros. Melee / Project M

Come here for any and all SSBM or PM discussions or topics, casual or competitive!
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Old 01-22-2015, 03:54 PM   #2
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Why am I not surprised you just come here and make a Smash thread instead of doing ASB.

Anyways, gonna try to get a ball rolling here. What characters do you guys main in Melee and PM? I've been leaning towards Falco in both due to his aggro playstyle, but I've started to find something to like in Fox too, since after playing for a while I can actually control him somewhat decently. I played Sheik for a while, but ended up dropping her since I started getting bored playing with her. I have a little experience with Jigglypuff just because she's fun as hell to play, and I'm a terrible human being with no soul at all.
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Old 01-22-2015, 06:43 PM   #3
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What characters do you guys main in Melee and PM?
Melee I would definitely say Pichu. I started playing Pichu because it was super cute, and after a while it went from a joke to my go-to character (see also: Jigglypuff in Brawl). I really don't care that it's likely the worst character in the game, I completely prefer it to Pikachu.

As for PM, either Ivysaur or Squirtle probably. Squirtle has an amazing Down Special, and its Side Special mechanics are far superior to Brawl, which I enjoy. The whole sliding across the map isn't always very useful, but I enjoy having Squirtle as a sem-relevant character.

As for Ivysaur, in Brawl I played Pokemon Trainer A LOT, but all I was ever able to use was Squirtle and Charizard, so I dedicated a bunch of time to learning Ivysaur. In PM when I found out about Solarbeam I was very very excited. Up Smash -> Solarbeam and Up Throw -> Solarbeam almost always secure the KO. Also the change to Ivysaur's Neutral A makes it far better as a spacer than in Brawl.
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Old 01-23-2015, 01:16 PM   #4
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Melee I would definitely say Pichu. I started playing Pichu because it was super cute, and after a while it went from a joke to my go-to character (see also: Jigglypuff in Brawl). I really don't care that it's likely the worst character in the game, I completely prefer it to Pikachu.
Pichu master race. I love pulling him out against people who don't know anything about the MU and just watching the disbelief on their faces as I Nair them to death off stage or USmash OOS and kill them at like 90%. Also, Bthrow to spark gimp is a soulcrusher staple.

I just realized I'm a horrible person.
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Old 01-23-2015, 01:19 PM   #5
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Those were some words you used there.

I've never played Melee more than once and I think Project M is an abomination. Well not quite but I would never take it seriously on a competitive level. So this will be my most meaningful contribution!
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Old 01-23-2015, 01:29 PM   #6
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Those were some words you used there.

I've never played Melee more than once and I think Project M is an abomination. Well not quite but I would never take it seriously on a competitive level. So this will be my most meaningful contribution!
Lmaooo

Seriously though, this can contribute more than you think. Mind elaborating on your opinion of Project M?
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Old 01-23-2015, 01:33 PM   #7
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I think that Project M is cool from a fun perspective for people who liked Melee better. But I feel when people go "Project M is better than Brawl from a competitive standpoint" I get confused. It's like if I came into Smogon with a Touhoumon hack and said "This is so much better competitively than the actual game". But its not the actual game, so as much as I might prefer it, its really not going to hold up as well as the real thing.

I'm not great at explaining things but I think you get my point?
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Old 01-23-2015, 01:38 PM   #8
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I think the main thing about your example is that the Touhoumon pack may in fact actually be more competitively suited, but the problem arises because no one will really care about it, and the competitive scene for it will be niche. Brawl and Pokemon are main game, people see them because of their exposure. Your example and PM are both little things off the internet whose players are small in number compared to the original. It may be more competitive, but the scene will be too small to keep up since new players will be much less likely to flow into it due to lack of exposure, so in a sense, it's less competitive due to lack of players and popularity, since Melee will always be more popular than PM and Brawl players will typically see it as "Melee reskinned" and probably won't be interested.

So I definitely agree that PM won't overtake the Brawl scene, but it'll remain as a small niche at regionally held, less official tourneys for people who enjoy the mod since it's been shown that large scale national tourneys, like Evo and Apex, won't be holding PM events.
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Old 01-23-2015, 02:02 PM   #9
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I think that Project M is cool from a fun perspective for people who liked Melee better. But I feel when people go "Project M is better than Brawl from a competitive standpoint" I get confused. It's like if I came into Smogon with a Touhoumon hack and said "This is so much better competitively than the actual game". But its not the actual game, so as much as I might prefer it, its really not going to hold up as well as the real thing.

I'm not great at explaining things but I think you get my point?
I get the point you are trying to make, but there are a few misconceptions/grey areas I would like to clear up/inquire about.

First, the meta Smash and the meta for Pokemon are REALLY different things, so though your point is made about comparing Touhoumon to PM, perhaps it was not as well received as you perceived it to be. The deal with PM is that it is Melee's physics run on Brawl's engine, making it a comfortable and unique game in its own right.

Second, the deal with "the people who liked Melee better" is that, buy and large, they like the game for its depth and competitive viability, resulting in a scene that has lasted 14 years. It's not a nostalgia "hey remember that game Melee let's make a shinier version" kind of thing, it's a "We aren't happy that Sakurai made our Olympic swimming pool into a three foot deep wading pool, let's take the pool and make it HUGE and add waterslides and scuba gear and dangerous marine life and pyrotechnics" kind of thing.

See, someone once explained the smash series, Melee and Brawl in particular, using something called the "swimming pool analogy". It compares Melee to a big pool full of people that starts at three feet and has that little gradual decline until it drops off into the deep end as it gets longer like hotel pools or some backyard pools do. Anyone could wade in the shallow water at the front of the pool as they pleased, but only a few people swam out to the deep end and had fun diving and swimming underwater and horsing around. This is Melee, with the ability to be played like a party game, but with the capability to played at an incredibly "deep" (see what I did there?) level. Then Sakurai takes a look at the competitive "deep water swimmers" and notices that not everyone could access the deep end like they did, and in fact, most of the swimmers aren't using the deep end at all. So pool designer Sakurai takes out the deep end in his next pool, making the entire thing three feet deep across the board. This is Brawl. People can still try and swim underwater and dive and stuff, but they'll either figure out it won't work eventually, no matter how hard they try, or they'll make due with what they have. If you look at Brawl's competitive scene, it's the same. This warrantd the creation of PM, the mutated, terrible, wonderful waterpark that people either love or hate.

TLRD; Video games are pools, but you can only swim so far in those pools before you hit a concrete wall or two and bump your head in a really painful way.
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Old 01-23-2015, 04:14 PM   #10
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I main Marth and Sheik (Counter is great, and it's fun to KO with Teleport.) I use Peach and Ganondorf occasionally, and it's fun to humiliate my brother by beating him with Pichu.
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Old 01-23-2015, 05:47 PM   #11
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I used to play IC in Melee, but it's been an age since I've actually played Melee.
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Old 01-23-2015, 06:53 PM   #12
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Ooh, very nice. I'll be completely honest, I didn't think a lot of people still played these games except for those interested in tourneys/events/other competitive stuff. I occasionally still play Melee with friends or family though, if I can get them to. I've never actually played PM, but I would like to. For those who do have it: Can I still play the original Brawl if I download this, or does it go directly to PM when you start the game?

In Melee: Pikachu, sometimes Pichu, Young Link... and Keeby. /shot
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Old 01-23-2015, 08:11 PM   #13
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All you need for PM is a 2 GB SD card. There are other ways, but this one is by far the easiest. Just download PM onto the SD card, and put it in your Wii. Then to start PM, go to Stage Builder and it'll boot up. To play Brawl, all you have to do is remove the SD card before you start playing. And as a note, to play PM you have to delete all custom stages. Not 100% sure why, but it's probably something to do with the startup.
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Old 01-23-2015, 09:43 PM   #14
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Oh, alright, thanks. For some reason I was convinced that it would actually write over Brawl or something weird, but what do I know? I never use the custom stage builder anymore anyway, so that shouldn't be a problem. I'll give it a go sometime.
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Old 01-23-2015, 10:37 PM   #15
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rip 8 year me's old custom stages
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Old 01-24-2015, 11:53 AM   #16
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Aha, yeah... I have some really weird ones I apparently made a while back. Including one stage that has absolutely nothing on it except a row of huge spikes along the bottom. Sounds like fun.
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Old 01-27-2015, 11:30 AM   #17
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If you guys are interested, I highly recommend watching the YouTube documentary The Smash Brothers, it's actually exceptionally good. Or at least, watch the first episode and if you hate it, don't watch it.
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Old 01-30-2015, 11:10 AM   #18
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I'm part of the Competitive Scene of Melee / PM / Smash WiiU here in Panama, and I mostly have the exact same issues that drive most Melee players to move into PM. I'm a Main PM Player (Roy / Ganondorf / Falco), and I frankly have come to appreciate the fact that Project M allows a far wider, more diverse Meta Game than Melee ever will. Certainly, Melee still has its merits, but I frankly moved to Project M because it allows so much more in comparison to its older, more popular cousin. Don't take me wrong, I still play Melee and I'm still in love with the Competitive aspect of it, but I prefer Project M by far. I've come to see Brawl as an insult to Smash's capabilities; and I've met some people who say that the 'Competitive Scene' is BS and the games weren't designed wit that purpose in mind. Honestly, what I believe is that, if you wish to play Smash in the 'shallow end' of the pol, by all means, please help yourself, but please, allow those of us that swim in the 'deep end' to swim at our leisure. This also applies to pretty much any Smash Game; the existence of a Competitive Scene does not 'rob' other players of their fun, nor does it mean that they're FORCED to play it 'Our Way', it is simply a reward for those of us that seek to be more committed to the game we've come to love.
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Old 02-01-2015, 10:08 PM   #19
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I'm part of the Competitive Scene of Melee / PM / Smash WiiU here in Panama, and I mostly have the exact same issues that drive most Melee players to move into PM. I'm a Main PM Player (Roy / Ganondorf / Falco), and I frankly have come to appreciate the fact that Project M allows a far wider, more diverse Meta Game than Melee ever will. Certainly, Melee still has its merits, but I frankly moved to Project M because it allows so much more in comparison to its older, more popular cousin. Don't take me wrong, I still play Melee and I'm still in love with the Competitive aspect of it, but I prefer Project M by far. I've come to see Brawl as an insult to Smash's capabilities; and I've met some people who say that the 'Competitive Scene' is BS and the games weren't designed wit that purpose in mind. Honestly, what I believe is that, if you wish to play Smash in the 'shallow end' of the pol, by all means, please help yourself, but please, allow those of us that swim in the 'deep end' to swim at our leisure. This also applies to pretty much any Smash Game; the existence of a Competitive Scene does not 'rob' other players of their fun, nor does it mean that they're FORCED to play it 'Our Way', it is simply a reward for those of us that seek to be more committed to the game we've come to love.
Very well said, very well articulated indeed. Panama, eh? Spark and I have at least one friend down there.

But yes, I do agree that PM has a broader and more diverse metagame than Melee, after all it was designed to improve upon the very aspects of Melee in a specific manner. I am pleased to say that they have succeeded and though I do greatly enjoy PM and all its scary unfamiliarity to a PM novice like myself, Melee's feel and competitive scene will always be just a little more familiar to me, so I choose to play it more. Something about the simplicity of its diverse and infinite depth...It's refreshing. But if Melee is infinite, that makes me ask myself...what is PM?

These are the questions that keep me up at night lmao

In any case, beatiful addition. bravo.
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Old 02-09-2015, 10:15 AM   #20
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So, I'm just getting more into Melee following the recent decay of Project M, and I seem to have picked up Luigi as a Main. I'm still getting used to his rather unique mechanics, but I enjoy him very, very much. As an otherwise outstanding Falco Player, having him as a secondary allows me to pretty much run rampant with the Lean, Mean, Green Machine. Anyone got any experience they'd like to share with one of Melee's more unique and technical Fighters?

EDIT The First: Never Mind. I'm switching to Fox McCloud.
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Old 02-14-2015, 01:54 AM   #21
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Fricking Fox. He is the sole reason I do not play Melee comp.
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Old 02-14-2015, 05:48 PM   #22
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EDIT The First: Never Mind. I'm switching to Fox McCloud.
Well, he is the best character. *hides from Swift's salty wrath*
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Old 02-15-2015, 02:27 AM   #23
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Fox isn't that annoying once you get used to what he can do, but he takes a LOT of work to play at the highest of levels. But for Melee and PM I play Ice Climbers and Luigi, though I main Ice Climbers in Melee, and Luigi in PM, though I can play other characters. Either way, I enjoy both games and play them competitively, I do play for money, have matches recorded, etc, but I'm still not that great at it.
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Old 02-27-2015, 05:34 PM   #24
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Well, he is the best character. *hides from Swift's salty wrath*
I hate you. With all of my hate.
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Old 09-14-2015, 10:30 AM   #25
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I've started playing a lot of Melee and Project M recently. This is funny.

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