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Old 01-31-2012, 01:45 PM   #1
Talon87
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Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies (AA5)


"Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney − Dual Destinies, known in Japan as Gyakuten Saiban 5 (逆転裁判 5?, lit. "Turnabout Trial 5"), is a visual novel adventure video game developed and published by Capcom. It is the fifth main entry in the Ace Attorney series, and was originally released for the Nintendo 3DS in 2013, with an iOS version following in 2014.

"The game is set around a year after the previous game, Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney, in a time where the court system has entered a dark era of false charges and fabricated evidence. The player takes the roles of three defense attorneys Phoenix Wright, Apollo Justice and Athena Cykes, who defend their clients in multiple cases and try to restore confidence in the courts. The gameplay is split into investigation sections, where the player searches for evidence and talks to witnesses, and trials, where they search for inconsistencies between witness testimonies and the evidence. The player can use some character-specific gameplay mechanics: Phoenix can see "psyche-locks" over witnesses who are hiding something; Apollo can spot visual cues in witnesses that indicate lying; and Athena can detect conflicting emotions in witnesses' voices." - Wikipedia

Welcome to the AA5 thread! Dual Destinies is the seventh game in the Ace Attorney franchise, the fifth title in the main series. It's hard to believe that this game has already been out for a number of years now. Back before it was announced, we weren't even sure if we'd ever be getting another Ace Attorney game again! But here we are, back in the saddle, ready to take on new challenges and new trials!

(This post has been edited. It has been refurbished to serve as an OP post for a thread dedicated to discussion of a released game. Previously titled "Ace Attorney 5 announced," the original OP post can be found below, along with subsequent pre-release discussion.)

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

ANN, Famitsu

Sales for PW4 and Miles Edgeworth 1 were poor enough that Capcom didn't even bother to bring over Miles Edgeworth 2, but there's hope that they'll bring over Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright (due later this year) and now there's hope that they'll bring over this newly-announced title as well.

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Old 01-31-2012, 01:55 PM   #2
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My friend sent me this news a couple days ago. Was waiting for a chance to tell you about it. XP
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Old 01-31-2012, 01:58 PM   #3
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Here comes Justice!!

More Apollo & Trucy goodness plz! Of course its gonna be for 3DS which I don't got but its finally something for me to look forward to on that system. I hope it has characters/references to AAI and especially AAI2 just to spite Crapcon US.

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Sales for PW4 and Miles Edgeworth 1 were poor enough that Capcom didn't even bother to bring over Miles Edgeworth 2
No thats a load of crap. They sold about as well as any of the first three AA games did overseas. Crapcon is a dirty lying jerks wanting an excuse to not localize games on "dead" handhelds (see: MHP3, and numerous Segac games). I'll give 'em the PSP market here is bad but DS games could still sell well last year and even into this one.
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Old 01-31-2012, 02:48 PM   #4
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Sources, please. Because I've done my homework on this before (even posted it on UPN, if you'd like to search for the post yourself), and the sales figures for PW show a downward slide. PW1 sold the best, PW2 not as great, PW3 even worse, and PW4 + ME1 sold very very poorly. If you have numbers that say otherwise, I'd like to see them.
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Old 01-31-2012, 04:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
Phoenix Wright sales:
Game 1: USA 0.37 million, Japan 0.39 million, total international sales 0.76 million (for some reason, VGChartz is listing 0.00 million sales for EU and Australia)
Game 2: USA 0.17 million, Japan 0.26, total international sales 0.42 million (again, no EU or Australia figures, odd)
All Games: USA 1.20 million, Japan 2.06 million, total international sales 3.38 million
Okies I'll be a witness!

My gut instinct and nerd rage are a far more legitimate source than vgshartz.
Ya wanna know why?
Unlike their numbers my instincts & rage aren't made up and pulled outta thin air!
Large 3rd parties had been jumping off the DS bandwagon as early as late 2010.
Its all about the money not the sales. Profits on games like this are razor thin cause of the cost of cartridges (hello N64 & bye bye Vita!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capcom PR
Apr 9, 2011 - The costs of localization are higher than the forecasted return. And no, it wouldn't sell more than Okamiden (which has already sold more than the first Investigations).
Mind you Okamiden was released in the US on March 10th of 2011. This post came exactly one month later. AAI came out February 16th, 2010.

Anyone that would believe a game from a far smaller series which had only been on consoles could outsell a game from a larger and more popular series which saw all of its games release on the same system, is nuts.

Okamiden in 1 month outsold AAI which had been on the market for 13 months? No ones buying that.
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Old 01-31-2012, 04:45 PM   #6
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"If you have numbers that say otherwise, I'd like to see them," I said.

Your gut instinct and your observation of nerd rage that ME2 wasn't brought over to the USA do not constitute good evidence that PW sales have not declined in the US with each successive sequel. If you want to discredit the site I used and suggest a better alternative, be my guest. If you want to discredit it and not offer any reasons why we should not trust them nor offer any alternatives for us to use, then with all due respect, no thanks.

Quote:
2005 24,976
2006 30,542
2007 119,324
2008 99,493
2009 31,756
2010 4,729
2011 24,994
2012 1,032
There are the year-by-year sources for their claim of US 0.37 million for PW1. It didn't just come out of their ass: they actually have the figures for each year. Now, you might question whether those figures are accurate or not, but my question to you is, why do you automatically write them off as wrong in the first place? The trend even makes perfect sense: early adopters in 2005, word of mouth spreads and people like me pick up a copy in 2006, word spreads even further and sales peak in 2007, and then they gradually taper off from 2008 on down. The pseudo-spike in 2011 is a reflection of the fact that the games came out again for iOS-compatible devices that year. Aside from that, these numbers make perfect, perfect sense.

Next we look at Phoenix Wright 2: Justice for All. We would expect to see the tallest peak in the very first year the game is out because this time, unlike with PW1, people already have Phoenix Wright on their radars and fans will make this a Day One purchase. So, do the numbers hold up?
Quote:
2007 88,937
2008 19,460
2009 31,209
2010 2,412
2011 2,998
2012 9
Absolutely they hold up. You see the biggest surge in 2007 and from there it's a rapid drop off than continues all the way into the present. There's a slight rebound in 2009, no idea why then since PW3 came out in 2007 and Apollo Justice came out in 2008, but aside from that and an even smaller curl upwards in 2011, the downward trend is just what you'd expect from this franchise: all the hardcore fans already bought their copies in the first year and from then on it's just stragglers who are late to the PW party picking up copies for themselves.

Like I said, if you want to challenge the credibility of these numbers, by all means do: but do so with more than name-calling and appeals to listening to your gut feelings. Those may persuade you but you can hardly expect them to persuade us. If I shouldn't be using VG Charts, then let me know why.

And even if I shouldn't, you still wouldn't win this argument: because you have yet to provide one iota of evidence backing up your own claims. Sure, you'd be making it so that I don't win either, but for you to win this -- for you to persuade us that you're right about PW's success in America and Capcom being a bunch of dirty liars -- you're going to need to do a hell of a lot more than you've done so far.

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Old 01-31-2012, 06:07 PM   #7
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They discredit themselves by pulling numbers out their ass (and by pulling an Ubisoft with the oh-so-edgey inappropriate Z in their name) then later "adjusting" them whenever they happen to get their hands on leaked, legitimate sales figures. Any simple search would bring up lots of people questioning their credibility. Fact is, I was there when it all went down. When ioi got called out for posting fake numbers and eventually banned then ran off crying.

His site wouldn't even exist if the NPD hadn't put their data on total lockdown. Because of that he has a monopoly on US sales info. People that want numbers will be willing to believe whatever they can get their hands on apparently. Yup some random message board poster no different from you or I who got called out for posting wrong info and got his feelings hurt is suddenly a true market analyst with lots of connections and junk? Rubbish!
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Old 01-31-2012, 06:14 PM   #8
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If that's true, then we won't use VG Charts' data in future discussions. But you still haven't proven that what you've pulled out of your own ass is any more credible! You still haven't given me a better alternative for what to use. Everybody else who reports sales figures seems to do so only for the first week, month, or year. It's impossible to find anybody else reporting the lifetime sales for any of the PW series' titles.
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Old 01-31-2012, 07:23 PM   #9
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Are ya saying my feelings are made up O.o? Cause thats what I was comparing with shartz.

There really aren't legitimate alternatives for US sales data that I know of. Its either NPD, which allows less and less information out by the month, or VGCZ. In the absence of true facts people clung on to that other place which is how it became so large and popular. Its NPDs own fault but allegedly just a single month of their info costs somewhere around $10,000 so clearly their work and data is important to them and their business. ioi's data on the other hand costs people nothing... I wonder why that is? Maybe cause if he did start charging he'd be shut down quicker than megaupload?

btw Crapcon US's last DS release was Okamiden which was almost 11 months ago. Their community manager says that a western AAI2 release absolutely will not be for the DS, which is maybe the one thing from that guy you can believe. AAI2 is now just a few days shy of being a year old itself. If ya think about the timing and "absolutely not for DS" comment it tells me they were planning (or already did) on turning in their DS devkits after they were finished with Okamiden, leaving them little to no time to translate and publish, and market a game which had come on in Japan just a month prior.

This kind of thing happens alot. Japan branch releasing something on a "dead" but extremely popular system which never gets picked up for localization. Especially handheld games cause those are somehow magically more invalidated than consoles. AAI2 was announced in september then released just 6 months later. Had it come out in 2010 I'm certain it would have been brought over.

I don't doubt that the series had some highs and lows in terms of sales numbers but low enough to completely pass on the one more? It doesn't seem right at all. So no I can't give any hard evidence. But I'd like to think that lots of the facts add up into a correct answer!
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Old 01-31-2012, 07:26 PM   #10
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*unrelated ninja appear*

Lindzzzz how comes you're never on AIM. I know Daisy has tried to *poke* ya in Private Messages for a while too. You may go back to arguing numbers with Talon now (ps Lindz is probably right).

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Old 02-05-2012, 10:10 PM   #11
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this had better go back to Wright... fuck Apollo...
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:44 PM   #12
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fucckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

this had better go back to Wright... fuck Apollo...
This. So much. I tried getting into Apollo but it just felt wrong.
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:52 PM   #13
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Apollo was a horrible attempt at trying to do something "fresh", but the old saying "why fix it if it ain't broken?" totally applies here.

Then again, Capcom just LOVES fucking with their fans.
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Old 02-06-2012, 03:53 PM   #14
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Apollo was great! The series needed a fresh slate character which they could build several games around without really stretching believability as AA3 did. They couldn't keep pulling crazy things outta Phoenix's past that had never been mentioned until the latest game. Besides Apollo and Trucy are cuter and more fun!
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:20 PM   #15
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Apollo wasn't terrible, but it left Phoenix in an absolutely terrible state- No job, no Mia, no Maya, no Pearl, no
Spoiler: show
Iris.
Just disgrace and a piano playing job- when he doesn't really play the Piano. There are way too many questions left unanswered about Phoenix to be able to transition wholly to Apollo like that, so hopefully AA5 will be the Feeny show redux!- or Mia Fey, Ace Attorney would be nice.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:06 AM   #16
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I don't know why you put the least important (!!) bit of that into a spoiler tag but not the rest. If you're gonna tag one, you may as well tag the whole lot.

Regarding a Mia Fey Case Files game, we don't really need more Mia Fey. She's gorgeous, particularly in the PW3 flashback (HOLY MOLEY! ), but all the stuff concerning DL-6 was pretty much fleshed out in totality by the end of Game 3. I also don't really want / need to see any more of her with Armando in the past. It'd be too anti-climactic given what all we know happens in the future.

One problem with a PW4 (as opposed to an Apollo Justice 2 or something altogether new) would be that it'd pit the Phoenix x Maya fanshippers against the Phoenix x Iris fanshippers. I'm personally Phoenix x Maya (as much as I loved Iris!). You're Phoenix x Iris (as much as you loved Maya!). One of us would be burned pretty badly by PW4. 'Cause it would probably either:
  1. not even have Iris in it, which would send you into nerd rage maximum power
  2. or else it would have Iris; but not only would it have her, it'd have her prominently as Feeny's darling, relegating Maya to the status of a kid sister assistant. And that'd piss off my side of the fence. Not to mention Pearls! You think she'd just let Iris have Feeny? Hell no! Mr. Nick and Mystic Maya forever!
When you end things at Game 3 and then do what Game 4 did, you theoretically upset nobody. That was probably Capcom's hope. The only problem with Game 4 was that they didn't anticipate just how badly fans took what they did to poor Phoenix.

If they are going to make a Phoenix Wright game ... personally? I'd like it to be a chronological sequel to Apollo Justice. I know a lot of fans are more comfortable treating that game as an alternate reality (especially given what happened to poor Phoenix), but I think that the final case proves that Phoenix was really willing to lay everything on the line for his ideals. You can't ask for better from your blue-suited hedgehog-haired hero, fellow fans. And besides:

Spoiler: show
All's well that ends well.

So if it were up to me, I'd have them give us "Phoenix Wright 4" but I'd have it be after Apollo Justice in the timeline. This way ...
  • we'd get to see Maya all grown up
  • we'd get to see Pearl all grown up (!!)
  • we'd get to see Trucy and Apollo again someway somehow, perhaps as people who have an office right down the hall from us and who share cases with us. We could even be different lawyers in the exact same firm: "Wright & Justice." I like the sound of it! And maybe one or two of the missions would even be ones that you'd play as Apollo rather than as Phoenix.
  • we'd get to see Timeskip Edgeworth and see what's up with him. (Has he married Franziska yet? Is Oldbag still tailing him? XD)
Basically, a lot of the things I'm sure fans would have wanted to see in Apollo Justice someway somehow, we would get to see in a fourth title starring Phoenix Wright if you made it happen in the Apollo Justice timeline and following Apollo Justice 1.

I understand a lot of people hated Game 4, but personally, I think it was the series' best-written. PW1 is the foundation upon which PW2 and PW3 are built, so it's hard to say whether I like it more or PW3 more. It's quite good regardless. PW2 is still probably my least favorite of the group although it has some truly spectacular cases of its own. It's just sadly bogged down by a weak Case 1 and an annoying Case 3. PW3 is good ... but like 2, it has some stinkers thrown in there. (The Masque DeMasque one is one I still can't decide whether I would rank with the greats or the stinkers. The one with imposter Phoenix is pretty weak. Really, what sells this one is anything touched by Phoenix's ex-girlfriend, just as Game 2 was sold by Cases 2 and 4.) And PW3 sets the stage for what Game 4 would later perfect: and that is, tell a final case in which everything bar nothing from the earlier cases comes back in a big way. PW3 tied up all the loose ends from Game 1, Game 2, and from Game 3's better cases. It was amazing. But Game 4? Step aside, gents: the king has arrived. There was a game where when you got to the final case and started putting everything together, it was just verbalized "HOLY SHIT " after verbalized "HOLY SHIT ". Everything tied in. Everyone from the previous cases mattered. It was like ... wow. This is some fucking impressive writing. So it saddens me to see so many people hate on the game despite the game's crowning achievement, its final case.

Spoiler: show
And again: EVERYTHING TURNED OUT OKAY FOR PHOENIX IN THE END, SO CHILLAX, PEOPLE! He was given the right to be a lawyer again, he put the greatest threat to justice since Manfred von Karma behind bars, and he even managed to help reform the Japanese court system, taking it away from a model where the judge is both judge and jury and towards a model where the judge and jury are separate, something which parallels the real-live court reforms in Japan in 2009 which introduced "citizen judges." (Read the details on Wiki.) I'D SAY HE DID OKAY, OKAY? Sure, he lost ten years of his life. Sure, we don't see Maya or Iris anywhere in his life right now. BUT HE'S PHOENIX WRIGHT! He stands for justice and the American way! He did what he did because he felt it was what he had to do in order to ensnare Gavin. And given how slippery Gavin was, he was probably right.

If people really don't want to see more Apollo Justice timeline, I could live with it. It just means that we're going to have to brace ourselves for impact -- 'cause either the Mystic Maya fans, the Iris fans, or both are going to be sorely disappointed by whatever a PW4 proper would have in store for them.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:28 AM   #17
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Of course, in that big scary wall of text, I forgot to mention one more obvious reason why the world should be grateful for Apollo Justice:

Peachi's Comics.

I mean, it doesn't get much better than this:

HUGE spoiler for the end of Game 4 inside!
Spoiler: show

Granted, Daisy's talents didn't stop at Apollo Justice ...



Happy Valentine's, UPN. A week early, sure, but whatever.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:22 PM   #18
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One problem with a PW4 (as opposed to an Apollo Justice 2 or something altogether new) would be that it'd pit the Phoenix x Maya fanshippers against the Phoenix x Iris fanshippers.
I thought Iris hooked up with Larry?



He was into her (as he is any girl "but its different with her!") and she was smitten with his passion on the stand...

(Also neither Maya nor Iris are good for Phoenix imo. Needs someone completely new & unrelated.)

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Old 02-10-2012, 08:34 PM   #19
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Well, loved the whole Ace Attorney Series. Can't wait for this one. =D
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Old 02-13-2012, 01:39 PM   #20
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I thought Iris hooked up with Larry?



He was into her (as he is any girl "but its different with her!") and she was smitten with his passion on the stand...

(Also neither Maya nor Iris are good for Phoenix imo. Needs someone completely new & unrelated.)
Eh, I don't think the girls match up. Different hair colour, different clothes, different hair style... (Black to Brown, short-sleeve to long-sleeve, loose to braided)
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Old 02-13-2012, 02:00 PM   #21
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Eh, I don't think the girls match up. Different hair colour, different clothes, different hair style... (Black to Brown, short-sleeve to long-sleeve, loose to braided)
Different hair color: you could say the same thing about Larry (blond-brown --> dark brown).

Different clothes: It's hard to tell from this far away. She may have the exact same clothes on but simply have a different sash around her waist. The absent fuschia top is a little odd, but it may simply be due to pixel limitations. This is probably your strongest (and imo only valid) counter-argument.

Different hair style: WTF? How on earth could you claim to know that the pixel character's hair is braided? It's impossible. All you know is that she has long hair with a heavy arrangement on top. The end. There's no way to even begin to dissect that strip of brown pixels as being braided vs. pleated vs. straight vs. pony tail vs. anything else.

Anyway, I don't think anyone's arguing that this image is 100% proof that Iris and Larry wind up together. It's too grainy to be able to tell who those people are. Lindsay is just noting that the pixel characters bear a striking resemblance, color pallet-wise, to Iris and Larry. Especially Larry.
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Old 02-14-2012, 08:33 PM   #22
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Ya I think its a stretch myself but when I first saw that image it did ya know at least raise the possibility beyond their words in AA3.
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Old 02-14-2012, 10:53 PM   #23
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Different hair style: WTF? How on earth could you claim to know that the pixel character's hair is braided? It's impossible. All you know is that she has long hair with a heavy arrangement on top. The end. There's no way to even begin to dissect that strip of brown pixels as being braided vs. pleated vs. straight vs. pony tail vs. anything else.
There's a bump at the bottom of a narrow, slightly lumpy strip of hair. Long, straight hair would hang down, not just go down her back, and a ponytail would stick up.

However, the lump is actually her other arm, and the hair is much shorter and goes down to the top of the back instead, giving it a "braided" look at first glance. It could definitely be Iris, especially due to the unnatural shape of the top of the head that suggests her hair-tiara.
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Old 02-20-2012, 08:20 AM   #24
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Old 02-22-2012, 04:39 PM   #25
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There's a bump at the bottom of a narrow, slightly lumpy strip of hair. Long, straight hair would hang down, not just go down her back, and a ponytail would stick up.

However, the lump is actually her other arm, and the hair is much shorter and goes down to the top of the back instead, giving it a "braided" look at first glance. It could definitely be Iris, especially due to the unnatural shape of the top of the head that suggests her hair-tiara.
Oh, woops, didn't realize that was her other arm. >_>
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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